What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

acemanhattan · August 2013

Thoughts on this used Sonata?

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/3996103472.html

By the way, I've talked to about 5 different new car sales people in the last few days: the worst. Not a single one of them hasn't been severely obnoxious. "So when can we have you talk to the sales manager and wrap this thing up?" Well I'm not sure, but certainly not after 3 minutes of talking.

Kirstie_H · August 2013

Personally, I'd go with an '06 or later. Some of our members have more experience with Hyundai vehicles, though, so I'd take their advice over mine. I advised a friend of mine strongly against Hyundai based on pre-2006 experiences. He got an '06, and I was blown away.

backy · August 2013

Yes, the 2006 Sonata is a much better car than the 2005 (which debuted in 1998 I think), one of the first standout designs from Hyundai.

benjaminh · August 2013

Post 3410....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8elevprV5A

acemanhattan · August 2013

Sheesh. That's something to think about all of a sudden.

benjaminh · August 2013

Knock on wood. Hope that kind of collision never happens to any of us. It isn't at all likely to happen. But if somehow it does, you want your car to take a bullet for you. All those cars tested, even the ones that didn't do very well, are much safer than any small car from 10 years ago.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/safety.aspx

acemanhattan · August 2013

Thoughts on something like this?
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/4017580476.html

benjaminh · August 2013

Yikes. Probably better than a 1999 Civic, but....That's a very small, not very safe, and not very impressive car at all. Have you ever seen one? Tiny. Believe it or not my 2013 Honda Accord gets better mpg than that car.

You know, if you've got a job as a teacher (I'm one too), Honda or any other car maker is likely to be happy to finance you on a car with only c. 10% down at or near 0% financing rates over 5 years. The car should last ten years, and probably more.

If you're in Portland, maybe consider picking up a copy of tomorrow's Oregonian. Maybe look at the screaming print ads for the car dealerships. The ones that say things like "2013 Toyota Corolla $15,999," or maybe even "2013 Mazda3, $14,999." I'm making those numbers up, but similar numbers are in my local paper. Just my 2 cents. It sounds like you're determined to get used...

acemanhattan · August 2013

Not determined, just exploring all options. I've been absurdly lucky getting 50,000 + miles out of each of the three used cars I've owned with little more than a fuel pump issue and I've never payed more than $1,600 on any of them.

I know that a lot of that has to be chalked up to luck and is no guarantee that'll always be the case, but it makes it really hard to imagine buying new. The logic of buying new is certainly not lost on me; the numbers make sense when we make some pretty reasonable assumptions, but I've never thought of a vehicle as anything but a depreciating necessity and I just worry about regretting the cost of a "luxury" that I've never really been that sold on.

acemanhattan · August 2013

Not determined, just exploring all options. I've been absurdly lucky getting 50,000 + miles out of each of the three used cars I've owned with little more than a fuel pump issue and I've yet to spend more than $1,600 on a car.

I know that a lot of that has to be chalked up to luck and is no guarantee that'll always be the case, but it makes it really hard to imagine buying new. The logic of buying new is certainly not lost on me; the numbers make sense when we make some pretty reasonable assumptions, but I've never thought of a vehicle as anything but a depreciating necessity and I just worry about regretting the cost of a "luxury" that I've never really been that sold on.

nvbanker · August 2013

That's the best precis of the pathetic story of Saturn I've ever seen. Bravo!!

suydam · August 2013

Yes, it's small but seems better value than the '06 Sonata. When the best an owner can say is "that it runs" doesn't sound very good. You can find a good used car. I've had very good luck. Subarus are popular in Oregon. What about an Impreza or Legacy?

benjaminh · August 2013

"I've been absurdly lucky getting 50,000 + miles out of each of the three used cars I've owned with little more than a fuel pump issue and I've never payed more than $1,600 on any of them."

Maybe you should buy a $2000 car, and if something major goes just junk it?

acemanhattan · August 2013

I'm not opposed to either and, as a matter of fact, I've had great success owning 2 Subaru Legacies in the past. I just was hoping to really knock it out of the park w gas mileage. I see that you can't have it all for $7,500 .

acemanhattan · August 2013

I would if I could but... it's a purchase for the wife and she has finer tastes than I do. She's giving up her dream vehicle (1999 4runner) because it gets poor gas mileage and is getting up there in miles, so I'd like to replace it with something she feels comfortable and "pretty" in.

benjaminh · August 2013

Did you show your wife the crash video? If so, what did she say? If not, maybe you should show it to her....? Does bluetooth matter to you or her? You press a button on your steering wheel to answer the phone. Useful/cool/safer.

acemanhattan · August 2013

My wife is a salesperson's dream and her watching that video would make her think there is about a 50% chance of her having that kind of crash. So no, I haven't showed her that video. That doesn't mean I haven't taken the video to heart though. I didn't realize how small that Accent was, it wont do.

acemanhattan · August 2013

In terms of price, is there any threshold you'd refuse to cross if you were doing business with a private seller? IE, you'd gladly buy for sub $10k but once you get past that you'd be better off going to a dealer? This is, of course, assuming we do due diligence.

In addition to this, provided we are talking a car that is about 3 years old, does a bank have a problem offering you financing on a private party exchange?

plekto · August 2013

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite

If you look at the data, given actual insurance payouts, mass wins. A tiny car simply does worse overall versus other cars. They also tend to have little to no real safety equipment standard in the 10-15 year old range. A 2000 Buick LeSabre, by comparison had ABS and stability control and so on, just because they put more money into it. You'll see that larger cars win most of the time.

So you're doubly behind the eight-ball here. $7K means old and small and a world less safe than new and midsize. Or old large, and a rust bucket. (Portland isn't nice on older cars to say the least)

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/4002954253.html
This is what you need to be looking at if you are serious about $7K. Or something like a Buick Lacrosse/Impala/etc. Big, overbuilt, inexpensive to fix, depreciates like a rock, and capable of lasting a few more years. Anything imported you really should just buy new,

suydam · August 2013

Here's a link to Consumer Reports recommended cars under $10k. The Accent isn't one of them but the Elantra is.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/the-best-used-vehicles-for-under-20-0- 00/index.htm

sebring95 · August 2013

I've done a lot of private party deals and I don't have a particular threshold for price. If anything, I usually find the higher dollar vehicle to be better bargains because the market is very narrow. Most folks buying pricey vehicles have trades to deal with or timing of private selling their own vehicle.

As for the bank, usually the headache is if the seller has a loan on their car. Many banks won't send the new buyer the title directly. There's usually a little risk involved there but I've never been burned.

isellhondas · August 2013

That warranty isn't worth that much. They are covering items that rarely if ever cause trouble. They are pretty safe in offering this and it appeals to what we call "warranty people" whose main concern when buying a car is the length of the warranty.

Actually a smart move on their part!

And they do require that you service your car at their dealership which isn't unreasonable. I know I wouldn't take my lawnmower to one of those Quickie Lube shops. They aren't much less money and they use questionable tactics and tend to oversell items.

You may spend a bit more at a dealer but they use the correct oil and they don't use cheaply made oil filters etc. Well worth the difference!

After reading all of this, I think you are a prime candidate for leasing a new 2013 LX Civic! You will love the car! You can keep your 7000.00 intect somewhere and at the end of the lease, you can walk away or purchase the car fro the residual. You could, at that point, use 7000.00 as a down payment and have a very low payment and still have a nice, reliable and safe car!

benjaminh · August 2013

isell: agree with you on the warranty.

The lease deals on the Civic are great, but if he's going to keep the car long-term doesn't buying it make more sense.

The Civic has 0.9% financing for 5 years right now, which is the lowest I ever recall for that car. Is 10% the lowest typical amount to put down to get the factory financing?

isellhondas · August 2013

I didn't know about that financing rate and I have to agree with you.

Depending on a person's credit rating they can put very little down. Unless they have very good credit they may not qualify for that excellent rate.

0.9% financing for five years is like free money. do it!

gmanusmc · August 2013

Ace - it is very frustrating and stressful to try and work car deals over the phone or in person at the dealership. If you decide to go new, utilize available technology - use email and only negotiate with the Internet sales department folks. Only go to the dealer to do test drives and promise yourself not to discuss pricing on these visits. Visit the prices paid threads to get tips on car shopping techniques.

Bill

acemanhattan · August 2013

Thanks gman. I will use this technique.

isellhondas · August 2013

You know, , it doesn't have to be frustrating and stressful. Shoppers bring much of that on themselves.

The shoppers who are bound and determined to squeeze every last penny out of a deal are the ones that always leave unhappy and frustrated.

They read the "expert" advice in these forums. Words written by people who think they know all there is to know about the car business.

Instead of going through all of that, ask a family member or a friend for a referral. If you see a new car of the make you are considering in a parking lot, ask the owner about their experience.

Instead of asking for the "Internet Manager" who is usually nothing more than a rotating inexperienced salesperson, ask the receptionist for a nice, experienced salesperson who has been there a long time.

It really can be a relaxed, easy experience and no, you won't end up paying more.

benjaminh · August 2013

Mostly agree with Isell.

A good and experienced sales person can save you time, money, stress, and help give you some good tips and tricks for your new car.

backy · August 2013

But always keep in mind... they are a salesperson, not your friend. It's not their job to make sure you get the best deal.

acemanhattan · August 2013

benjamin,

My experience teaches me that a salesman who makes my life better is the exception to the rule and that every other kind of salesman is an adversary. I am sure good ones are out there, but they are so few and far between as to easily justify a "I just don't deal with salespeople" rule in life because it's not worth my time trying to find a good one.

isellhondas · August 2013

That's true.

If you were to invest two million (or more) dollars into a car dealership you would expect a decent return on your money I would hope.

Otherwise, just keep those two million invested in conservative mutual funds and bonds and sit back and earn a ten percent return every year.

But, some buyers don't think you are entitled to a profit. They think you should sell your cars for what you paid for them or even less. These same buyers demand top dollar for their ratty trade in that you hope some wholesaler will take at a break even profit to the store.

I tried to maximize profits on every car I sold. That was my job and I was good at it. I didn't do this by lying or paying games. If I had to deeply discount a car and the deal made sense (important!) I would do what I had to do to make the deal happen.

The people who were the cheapest grinders never left happy. They somehow left thinking that just maybe someone else somewhere could have bought that same car for less! These people were never loyal. They would give mediocre surveys and were difficult to deal with in the Service Department down the road.

For me, it seemed like a small, miserable way to go through life but I suppose we are all different.

Life is short...

isellhondas · August 2013

A lot of the "good ones" have left the business or retired early.

They get tired or trying to treat people as they would like to be treated.

This leaves the type you don't like.

As a lifelong Retail Sales Manager including a very high level position I really thought I had seen it all. I thought I had seen the worst in customers. I dealt with shoplifters, liars and cheats but NOTHING could prepare me for some of the customers in the car business. The vast majority were great to deal with and we got along very well. There were a handful of others that have left me forever cynical!

backy · August 2013

Exactly right... it's the salesperson's job to maximize profit on every car.

So there's a lot more to buying a car at a good price than finding a nice, friendly, helpful salesperson at the dealership. I know some very nice car salespeople, and it was a pleasure dealing with them. But I didn't take their first offer... or second. Maybe not their third, either. I understand they're trying to maximize profit. I'm trying to get the lowest price I can. And it's always the salesperson's prerogative to tell me when they've gone as low as they can, to ensure they make enough profit on the deal. I respect that kind of honesty, as I know where I stand. And if it's a good price, I'll take it. If not, we'll shake hands and I'll move on.

suydam · August 2013

Sadly I have to agree with you. And from my perspective it's been a horrible experience ever since I started buying cars. I've actually had more satisfaction and less aggravation buying used. But once you go through the wringer hopefully you end up with a very nice vehicle that lasts a long time.

benjaminh · August 2013

All the new cars I've bought have been good experiences in terms of the salesperson. Probably a lot of that is luck. But I also try to make my own good fortune by doing a lot of research, knowing exactly what I want and knowing the numbers, and treating the salesperson with respect and good humor. If they like you and want to make you happy, often things go well and a good deal is achieved with smiles all around. I got $2700 off of my hard-to-find deep red 2013 Accord EXL navi just a few months after it was introduced.

Buying and owning a good car is one of the many pleasures in life, imho. Not everyone is so fortunate. I used to not be so fortunate. Sounds silly, but I'm grateful now to own my good Accords, a 2008 and 2013. After decades of driving mostly sucky cars, they are are both excellent, and by far the best cars I've ever owned.

dexterdarkly · August 2013

Hello all, I hope this is the right thread but I need some help deciding on what to do. My lease is up on my 2011 Acura tsx and its been a great car. Although my finances were better when I first got the car that's changed. Anyways to get to the point if I were to purchase my tsx after my lease is up my contract states it would probably be about 20k. So I started looking at cars at this price and even lower. I've got my eye on a new or 1 year old Kia optima. So which would be the better buy? Obviously the optima would come out cheaper and it's newer compared to my 3 year old tsx. But I'm sure the tsx has merits that surpass the optima. I want to look and compare everything on both cars because this next purchase I want to keep the car for a good 10-15 years. So it has to be long lasting. No expensive parts in case I need to repair. Insurance would be a key point too. Which would you go for? Thanks for all the help!

isellhondas · August 2013

" No expensive parts"....Good luck on that one!

You can buy your leased Acura for it's residual. It isn't "about" any number. It is a hard, defined number.

I am not a fan of Korean cars for a number of reasons but I know they have greatly improved in recent years.

You are simply going to have to do what you deem the best route. If you have taken good care of your TSX and you like it, you'll be able to buy it for the residual which is a great deal.

No "good" answer her. It's your decision.

sebring95 · August 2013

You need to figure out the market value of your TSX and compare that to the buy-out. If the buy-out is a fair deal and you really like your TSX then I think that would be a fairly safe bet. Anytime you KNOW the history/care/etc of a used car it should be worth more to you. Now if for some reason the buy-out is higher than what you can buy a similar TSX...then it may not make sense.

Some of the new Kia's/Hyundai's are nice...but to keep one 10-15 years? I think the TSX would be a far better long-term car and you would enjoy it more. Average out the additional cost over 15 years and even a $5,000 premium looks pretty cheap.

My experience with Acura is that the service/repairs really aren't that expensive if you find a good dealer or even an independent mechanic that specializes in honda/acura. Certainly nothing like many of the other "luxury" brands.

dexterdarkly · August 2013

Thanks for your reply guys! Well my car based on kbb is worth 23.5k my residual is 20.4k from the top of my head. My lease is up in 5 months so I have time to think and not rush it. Also would there be any negotiating with the leasing co to lower or is the residual set in stone? I could also look at the 2010 tsx which runs about $17k and there's not a huge difference from 2010-2011.

isellhondas · August 2013

Residuals are set according to what they think the wholesale or auction values will be at lease end. If they set residuals too high as they sometimes do, they can take a beating when the cars fall short at the auctions.

TSX's are nice cars but not all that popular. If you can buy a nice one for 20K, you will be doing OK.

You can't negotiate a residual! That would be opening a can of worms and no different that if they decided to RAISE it at the end.

Lastly, why buy a 2010 when you know the car you already have....unless....you know you've been sloppy with maintenance as some lessors can be sometomes.

dexterdarkly · August 2013

Ive actually taken very good care of this car. Scheduled mentaince when it needed it. Never abused the the car. Inside is immaculate. Outside has a couple of dings from idiots who decided to park too close to me. But otherwise a great car and I love everything inside and outside. It's just the price but if its only a $5000 difference then it should offset over the long run. Correct?

suydam · August 2013

The 2011 TSX has outstanding reliability ratings so unless you want a bigger car, or better fuel economy, I'd keep it. But if you want something new and shiny, well ... each to his/her own.

dexterdarkly · August 2013

Not at all. I don't care about new or not. I just figured if I was going to drop 20k on a car would I want a new one but in the process downgrade from an Acura to a Kia. Or just stick with the Acura. Also my insurance was quite high with the tsx I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it being a lease or not but a quick call to my ins co to see if there's a drop because I'm financing it.

benjaminh · August 2013

What about an Accord LX? It's only slightly more than a KIA, but gets better mpg, better safety ratings, has better visibility (KIA has the largest blind spots on the market, because of huge rear roof pillars), and has more standard equipment.

Even in the last generation the Accord LX was missing some key things, such as bluetooth, alloy wheels, dual climate control, upgraded engine, etc.

But now all of that is included in the LX.

Check out this price from Crest Honda in Nashville. Similar prices on the LX are available in most of the country. My parents own one of these and they love it. This generation of Accord has a significantly upgraded and quieter interior. Some Honda fans, only half joking, call it the "Acura Accord." Coming from your TSX, I think you'd feel right at home. And financing is available from Honda: 1.9 for 5 years, or 0.9 for 3 years.

2013 Honda Accord LX Sedan

MSRP:$23,270
Dealer Discount:$2,779
True Price:$20,491

backy · August 2013

You can't negotiate a residual!

It IS possible to negotiate a residual. I have done it before, with NMAC, on a leased Sentra. When the lease was almost up, I called NMAC and made them an offer, lower than the residual on the contract, and they accepted it.

Whether the residual on a specific leased car is negotiable is an open question. But it doesn't hurt to try... the worst that can happen is they say, "No".

greg128 · August 2013

I am looking within the next year to replace my wife's Saturn Aura XR as it will be 6 years old and out of warranty. It has been a good car but I don't see any V-6 powered midsize cars from GM anymore. I like the power of a v-6 but do not want a 4cyl Turbo . I had some in the past which all had engine problems after 50-60k miles and as a result I am not convinced of their long term durability, regardless of the manufacturer. My cousin has a Turbo 4 cyl RDX and am not at all impressed with the powertrain.

I would not consider Toyota or Mazda so that would leave me with a choice between Honda and VW. I am skeptical of VW reliability. I would consider the Honda Accord V-6 which looks like a nice car and reasonably priced even loaded up, but there are a ton of negative reviews for the V-6 model, mostly oil consumption and VCM problems. Can I reasonably believe those problems are in the past?

sebring95 · August 2013

Agree with Backy. All contracts are technically negotiable....but that doesn't mean any/all will do it. Some are insured against the residuals and really could care less if it's turned in even if they're under water. As mentioned, it never hurts to ask.

benjaminh · August 2013

I think Honda's V-6's are reliable these days. And because of the VCM, they get about the same mpg as many 4 cylinders. I've read that you can feel it when the VCM cuts off some cylinders and so you should give it an extensive test drive to see if you can live with that. Consumer Reports recommends the Accord, including the V-6, and they will not recommend something that they don't think will be reliable.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/04/top-picks-2013/index.htm

"What it takes

Top Picks must meet our criteria in three areas:

Road test. Each must rank at or near the top of its category in overall test score.
Reliability. Each must have earned an average or better predicted-reliability Rating, based on the problems Consumer Reports subscribers reported on 1.2 million vehicles in our latest Annual Auto Survey.
Safety. Top Picks must perform adequately if tested in crash or rollover tests conducted by the government or insurance industry.

Each models overall road-test score, predicted-reliability Rating, overall fuel economy, detailed pricing, and much more is available on their model pages. Prices reflect the sticker prices when we bought our tested cars.

Midsized sedan
Honda Accord

The Accord was redesigned for 2013, and Honda nailed it, sending this sedan to the top of its class. This new model is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient. With its four-cylinder engine, the Accord squeezes out 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway, which is as good as the tiny Honda Fit. Higher-trim models have safety features seldom found in this category. And the Accords price is very reasonable: $23,270 to $30,860."

jgwaltney · August 2013

Would you spend 16-18k on an 05 ls430 w 80-100k mi or spend @26-28k on a 13 accord exl 4/6 cyl...there are pros and cons to both so chooses and explain your reasoning...this could be interesting debate...

backy · August 2013

If I had $28k to spend on a car, it wouldn't be on an Accord. Probably something like a CPO 3 Series.

You are comparing apples and oranges--a full sized luxury car with 100k miles, vs. a new, nicely equipped mid-sized family sedan that costs $10k more.

Why not look at cars that are at least in the same price range? And same size class, e.g. used Lexus ES vs. new Accord EXL V6? e.g. you could get a low-miles CPO 2010 (maybe even a 2011) ES for $28k or less. Much more comparable to the Accord EXL V6 than the LS.

What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

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