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Nissan 350Z

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Comments

  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    What remains to be seen is the integrity of the Nissan dealer network re: gouging.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    I believe the dealers are going to be the weakest link.
  • alaskans13alaskans13 Member Posts: 22
    The price is set, they're already taking orders.
    Price gouging may occure at some dealerships in the first months. However, this isn't a very limited production car like most models that get gouged. They're going to make something like 5000 cars a month(maybe it was 10,000 can't remember exactly).
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    I don't consider dealer mark-ups to be an integrity issue, merely capitalism doing its thing. I'm tempted to stop by my local Nissan dealer to see how they are handling this.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    I believe the capitolism thing too, but my problem with it is a personal problem.

    If Nissan says this car is worth 27,000 dollars, I am not going to pay more than that. I will pay that amount or less than that amount, but I am not going to pay more than the manufacturer thinks it is worth. I don't buy cars based on hype. That would be like paying 100 bucks to see a movie first. I wouldn't do it. Some may do it, but I wont, because I can see it later for less money, and still get the same experience. The only thing to show for your extra money is braggine rights: that way you can say" I saw/drove it first.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    I agree absolutely. I would never pay more than MSRP either but if the dealers can soak the people who feel the need to be special for the few months that they have something new and different, I see no reason to blame the dealer.
    Frankly, this car sounds too good to be true and I tend to be very cautious with things that seem too good to be true. And even though Nissan has a pretty good record, I'd want to wait a year or two in case there are bugs to work out.
    Finally, I'm disappointed that they don't have a version without all the gadgets but with the performance improvements. I was assuming that's what the "Track" version would be. I mean really, climate control in the track version.
  • 68bullitt68bullitt Member Posts: 177
    And why is it that you have to get the high-priced Touring model just to get leather? Why can't we just get leather as a separate option without all that other stuff that the touring model comes with? I mean I'd be willing to pay up to $1,000 over the base car's price just for the leather seats and nothing else. BTW, I think the orange leather seats in most of the production model pictures look awesome!
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    As someone forced to step down from the S2000 down to the Prelude solely because of dealer gauging (at the time) it's a bit of a sore subject. Hopefully as someone else said, this will be a relatively high volume car.

    I will be skeptical of the Nissan dealer network though. I've been to one just once, and it was the worst dealer I've ever been to. I spoke with two different salesmen and both combined to push me out of the dealership without even looking at a car. More arrogant than the BMW guys, more disheartening than the Honda guys, and more clueless than the Ford guys. Obviously that was just one particularly bad dealer, but I do hope the dealership experience is befitting of what will be a $30k++ car once you figure in taxes. One thing I strongly believe is that if the car hasn't earned the reputation yet, then it's up to the dealership to substitute in that area. I can put up with Honda salesguys because I can trust the product at this point (and to a degree I could brush off the awful BMW dealer experience because of the superior product) but Nissan doesn't have that reputation preceding the new 350Z, at least not yet.
  • ligartligart Member Posts: 109
    "Nissan doesn't have that reputation preceding the new 350Z"

    1990 The 300ZXTT is named the Motor Trend "Import Car of the Year." Motor Trend also names it "One of the Top Ten Performance Cars." Automobile Magazine honors the 300ZX/300ZXTT as its "Design of the Year" and names the 300ZXTT to its "All Stars" list. Road & Track names the 300ZXTT "One of Ten Best Cars in the World." Car and Driver names the 300ZXTT "One of the Ten Best Cars."

    American Z-car sales reach the one million sales mark in the 1990 model year - making it the all-time best selling sports car.

    1991 The 300ZX Twin Turbo is name to Car and Driver's "Ten Best" list, and is once again one of Automobile Magazine's "All-Stars."

    1992 For the third straight year, Car and Driver names the 300ZX Twin Turbo one of its "Ten Best," and Automobile Magazine names it to its "All-Stars" list.

    1993 For the fourth straight year, the 300ZX Twin Turbo is named a Car and Driver "Ten Best," and one of Automobile Magazine's "All-Stars."

    1994 For the fifth straight year, the 300ZX Twin Turbo is named to the "Ten Best" and "All Stars" lists by Car and Driver and Automobile Magazine respectively.

    1995 Marks the 25th Anniversary of the Z. It also brings another award from Car and Driver, as the publication names the 300ZX Twin Turbo to its "Ten Best" list for the sixth straight year.
  • ligartligart Member Posts: 109
    Enthusiast Model = Base +
    xenon headlamps
    homelink
    cruise control
    TCS
    limited slip differential
    aluminum pedals
    day/night rearview mirror
    lighted vanity mirrors

    Performance Model = Enthusiast Model +
    VDC
    tire pressure monitor
    18" wheels

    Touring Model = Performance Model +
    bose stereo
    leather seats
    power seats
    heated seats & mirrors

    Track Model = Performance Model +
    front & rear spoilers
    18" lightweight wheels
    brembo brakes
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    350Z != 300ZX, 280Z, 240Z

    I've spent time in all of the older Zs and they are wonderful, but it's pretty clear that the 350Z is a completely different car. I'm definitely not buying it blind, and since I don't know how this new Z is (maybe it's stunning, maybe it's light, plastic, and full of rattles - we don't know from the press photos or the showroom model) other things like dealership impressions are definitely going to have a bearing on my attitude towards Nissan and their cars.
  • obiwankenobi1obiwankenobi1 Member Posts: 290
    I am with sphinx99 when he says their is going to be "gouging".

    C'mon, when the Altima debuted, they were getting $2,000 over MSRP. What do you think is going to happen to the Z? Doesn't take a lot of guesswork.

    Now the Mini....don't even get me STARTED on how much over sticker they are going to get on that car! Sweet ride, that Cooper S!
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    What dealer network doesn't gouge on a hot new model? There will be gouging, but if you look around I'm sure you'll be able to find a dealer who will sell it at sticker.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    If you put your name on the waiting list of one of the BMW factory owned dealerships, they cannot charge you 1 cent over MSRP for a Mini. There are 4 BMW factory owned stores in the US. 2 are in NY (BMW of Manhattan & Westchester BMW). I don't know where the other 2 are.

    The new Altima's are already in the "Screamer Ads" here in NY. I'm sure there will be dealer gouging on the new Z. Just keep your pants on and wait for it to cool down. My friend had 3 Nissans ('96 Pathfinder SE, '98 Pathfinder SE, & '00 Maxima SE). He swears by Nissans! The 3 cars he had had ZERO problems (he only had them for a short time w/ lots of miles). He loves Nissans, but HATES the dealerships! He traded in his '00 Maxima SE (5 speed) for an '02 Audi A4 3.0Q (6 Speed).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    I would try to avoid them even though this and some other future cars are so tempting to get right off the bat...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    In San Diego always charges below MSRP. They even sold the Altima below MSRP right off the boat/truck. I'm confident if I wanted a Z, Mossy would be the place to buy one initially, though Pacific Nissan has better prices on older models.
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    about buying a first year model, but I really want a new car this fall. I figure that's what warranties are for anyway. Besides this may be a moot point if I can't find a dealer around here that will sell at MSRP or less.

    Must say I do agree with the previous posters about gouging = capitalism. If you can get more money, why not?

    I wonder if there are pictures of the car in each color, to make pre-ordering selection easy. Then again, since the Z isn't low volume it may be better just to wait a month or two anyway just to see it in person a few times. I also wonder what percentage of the cars will be base models.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I agree that's what warranties are for, but it does get rather annoying ot have to wait for a service appointment and be without your car and deal with the dealership for stupid little QC first year defects.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    For the record, I never said that there's anything *wrong* with gouging, however it does factor into how much of a "deal" the 350Z is. $26k for a cloth-seated car of this caliber is outstanding. $30k for the same... not so outstanding.
  • dohc32vdohc32v Member Posts: 60
  • alaskans13alaskans13 Member Posts: 22
    Well not all dealers will gouge, and those who do won't be able to fetch that price for to long. So you can either pay the price, find a dealership that doesn't gouge, or just wait for prices to come down. I don't see a problem with gouging. It defidently shouldn't be an argument against the car. The price is 26k, and you can get one at or below that, you'll just have to do some extra shopping around, or waiting.
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    doesn't cover some wind noises or slight improvements.... that's the deal with some of the better makes for the first model year.... but when you gotta have then you gotta get it!!!
  • bbunsbbuns Member Posts: 17
    MSRP of track with no navi is about $34945!
    It differs with light alloy wheels, no bose, spoilers, & Brembo.

    Now what you guys think... is it better to get performance ($31794) model and add 3rd party stuff on it 3 grand worth it?

    There is no photo for track out there yet. Will be going to NAIAS next week or so.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    "Dealer sets actual price." which means, if you are dealer, carte blanche to charge whatever you like. That's why we all love car dealerhips!!
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I'll be at NAIAS next week as well.

    It's too bad you can't get the better calipers and pads on the other models. I don't think I need the track model nor need to put up with its sacrifices, but I'm a big fan of stopping power. This is something Honda generally sucks at. I am so impressed by Porsche and Toyota (and to a lesser degree BMW) for what they are able to do with brakes systems. I want my next car to have strong, linear, fade-free stopping at all speeds.
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    I've read that the brakes and forged wheels (Nismo Rays) bought retail would cost around $7500. So the track model really is a good deal if you were planning to upgrade those items anyway.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    wow thats cheap...have you noticed that every other nissan you can get lether and xenon's without another package? I bet when the 350 comes out you will be able to do it on that also...as for price gouging...stop complaining, every other manufacturer does it on every new model (except maybe economy models) so dont complain, its a moot point if nissan does it also. Figure 30k with a leather and xenon lights, assuming you dont go in there and argue for msrp (msrp is crap, argue dealer invoice + 1 to 2 grand)...
    P.S. that sexy G35 is around $27 also base....
  • xhawkeyexhawkeye Member Posts: 10
    Would bet that one will have a hard time finding a Base model the first year. Since they make money on the optioned out models thats what they'll build since demand is high. Once demand tapers off the Base will become more available.
  • boikoboiko Member Posts: 82
    I keep seeing the 280+ HP figure in all the info I've read so far, and keep wondering how much each of the different packages will have.

    Can anyone remember the last time a car was announced in "production" trim...and the real HP figure was an unknown with a "+" attached to it?

    Maybe this means that it will be available off the showroom floor with 280 HP...but remove this plate/switch/etc.. an you have xxx HP

    Will the engines all be the same...not one bit of info in that area so far. My guess is that it won't be too hard to get even the base model up to an even 300 HP - if that is so look for a 5.4- 5.8 0-60 MPH time for the base model. I guess we'll know better when we know the Z's real weight.

    -mike-
  • boikoboiko Member Posts: 82
    Tamiya has a model of the 350Z coming this month....for those of us who can't wait...


    http://www.tamiyausa.com/img/top_bar.jpg


    -mike-

  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    To me, the "280+ hp" figure means the Nissan engineers know they can get at least 280 hp out of the engine, but they're still tweaking to try to get more. Remember, the car won't be available until August, so there's still time for the engineers to work on it.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    if no one is willing to pay, they there would not be any gouging. But some people just need to be the first one on their block to have the latest and greatest and pay whatever price. Ruins it for the rest of us, common people.
  • bbunsbbuns Member Posts: 17
    I loved that color once I saw this in a Z-Concept.

    anyway, Afty, I agree with you going for track. I know it will cost more If I go for extra later on... THERE IS NO WAY I AM BUYING THIS CAR TILL I SEE IT!!! 35 grands is no joke for a person like me :)

    btw, has any one seen any pics of track with spoilers?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Is a sunroof or moonroof on the options list for any of the Z models?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    When I do get a 350Z (assume second or third year of production tell all the minor bugs are out) Im going to shoot for black or silver... watch out for that orange color or deep red if you live in a hot climate...red turns to pinkish, and orange gets a really ugly yellow...
    about the HP: dont quote me on this but I heard that most of the HP gain of te 350Z over the maxima version of the engine actually resulted from just adding a more free exaust, and a improved intake....which meens that future exaust and intake/computer mods probably wont make much HP gain....I bet someone will make new cam's and heads for it though...
    That pikes peak white is very ugly...like a dirty white or something.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Intake and exhaust mods rarely add a lot of power to a modern, normally aspirated engine anyhow.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    Touring Model 5AT $31,589
    Touring Model 6MT $33,179

    penalized for a manual?? www.freshalloy.com
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    I read that the extra power was coming from improvements in the variable valve timing system. On the Altima and Maxima, the 3.5L V6 has VVT only on the intake valves, but in the G35 and Z it will have it on the exhaust valves as well. This is just hearsay but it seems to make sense.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    In that model the MT comes with VDC and the tire pressure monitor, the AT does not. Only difference I could find.
  • ligartligart Member Posts: 109
    and 18-inch aluminum wheels and tires.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    If it is by VVT (I hope it is) then that is great, its always better to throw technology at gaining hp then it is to just free up the exaust system..
    the 18 inch wheels make sence....still they better look good for 2grand
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    That is so cool do you guys know what this does for performance!!! Carbon fiber drive shafts absorb vibration in a diferent manner then do steal drive shafts, they are also lighter and have much less rotational inertia... most aftermarket drive shafts I have seen can decrease the drivetrain HP loss by 2 to 4% of total drivetrain loss (with a manual)! Thats great! So instead of loosing 10-15% of HP to drive train losses you may loose 8-12%!!! Its the equivilent of gaining atleast 6HP!! [figure 280-(280 X 0.08) instead of 280- (280 X 0.10)] So at the very least figure the equivelent of 280hp +6hp = 286hp
    This is a minimum figure! It would be greater gain if the % drivetrain loss is greater or if the max engine hp is actually 300 instead of 280.
  • pathmax00pathmax00 Member Posts: 22
    I personally think that Nissan is holding back on releasing the final hp numbers because they are waiting to see what the competition is going to do.
  • bbunsbbuns Member Posts: 17
    I am sure there will be a lot of after market performance products out there in few months or so.

    Better exaust, intake, head etc, will definitely get this car to 300+ ponies. I wonder if it is possible to turbo this motor!
  • alaskans13alaskans13 Member Posts: 22
    Anything's possible. They actually have a turbo version of the motor over in Japan in an SUV. However, the problem with adding a turbo will be the open deck engine block. Basically what that means if you don't already know is the top of the cylinders aren't connected to the block. Thats bad at high HP because the cylinders can then flex and move around. Some machine shops can weld in material to make it a closed, or semi-closed block. If I were going for really high hp(400+), the first thing I'd look into is getting that done.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    I bet stillen will release a turbo kit (probably with HKS or Gready parts) within 2 years after the 350Z finally comes to market..
    I dont think open deck will be a problem...AS you say it should be easy to fill in the space between the cilinder and the edge of the block, and even without bothereing to fill it in there have been plenty of cars with boosted open deck blocks...maybe nissan even designed it to handle boost from the start....
    A good example is the subaru WRX...up tell like 1996 or 1997 (1996 I think) they used closed deck blocks, but past 1996 they have used open deck blocks, and that motor takes a hell of a lot of boost in STI form.
  • atl123atl123 Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone had a chance to sit in the 350z at either the LA or Detroit auto show? I'm 6'4" and was wondering if there's enough legroom and headroom for taller people.
  • alaskans13alaskans13 Member Posts: 22
    rezo00, yea that's why I said a high boost turbo. It could take a low boost setup pretty easily. The STI does in fact have a semi-closed block, the WRX has an open deck. Open deck is fine up until the 350-400 hp range(in a typical 4 cylinder). The Z would be fine with low boost, but if you were going for big power I'd close the block. Course if you're going for big power you'd probably want to do some other things as well like lower compression pistons.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    im not sure the Z's stock compression but if I was doing anything radical I would drop it to 8.5:1 or maybe even 8:1... I dont think I would do anything real crazy anyway... by any chance do you hapen to know if the late supra is closed or open? Either way figure if open is good up to 350 hp in a 4 cilinder (say a 2.0 liter) shouldent it follow that a 3.5 liter six cilinder should be good up to say 350 X (3.5/2.0) = 612hp? If and when I do get a Z there is no way in my wildest dreams that I would boost it to 600hp...figure it has almost 300hp to start, it would need at least 14.7 lbs of additional boost just to be in the ball park....I was thinking more along the lines of low boost, like 5 to 7 lbs, which I hope would yield about 450hp if intercooled... Then again this is all speculation.
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