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Nissan 350Z

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Comments

  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    Ditto.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I didn't quite get your 350Z to M3 comparison. The 350Z is a pure 2-seater and the M3 is a decent sized 4 person vehicle. I guess if I were to compare my 540i to a Suburban, it would come out looking pretty light, but at 3700+ lbs, it isn't.

    The new Z is not on my current shopping list. But I am going to take one for a test drive as soon as it's available for the fun of it. I know the owners of a Nissan dealership who have promised to accomodate me. I will say that the estimated weight of 3200 lbs has also struck me as too high. Compared to a Boxter / Boxter S, S-2000, or even a 911, it's 300 to 400 lbs heftier. These are the pure 2-seater cars I think Nissan would have wanted to target, not the old overweight 300ZX of yesteryear.

    Also, I wouldn't use BMW as a standard for weight efficiency. They are great cars (I may be upgrading my 540i to an M5 soon), but they have never been known for being light on the scales. The Z3 / M Roadster are downright too heavy for their intended purpose, IMO.

    Final comment, I would be very leary of the 350Z as a convertible. Unless they are going to go with a completely different chassis design, the convertible version would likely end up at 3300-3400 lbs and have less rigidity than the coupe. Not a pretty sight.
  • bpraxisbpraxis Member Posts: 292
    Hello everyone and what a pleasure to see Nissan producing fun cars and trucks again. The Infiniti G 35 and new sport utility look very promising also. I have noticed 10 Lexus 430 Sport Coupes sitting at my local dealer. It did not take long for that demand to be satisfied, did it? They were getting up to $10,000 over MSRP and now they are discounting the vehicle. IMO the same pattern will befall the Z. The car seems to be a good value at the lower end of course if it can be purchased at the right price. In reference to the prior posts the new Z is 169 inches long and 72 inches wide, the width should give it a nice presence. The beautiful Audi TT is only 159 inches long. Hopefully Nissan will get rid of the elephant ear door handles which seem to be so out of place on a nice design. I am looking forward to driving one as they become available and will also consider buying the new 2003 BMW Z3, BMW X3, or the Chrysler Crossfire. Have a great day fellow car enthusiasts.
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    shssss... stop telling everyone that I am tempted by one... I have a hard time deciding between it and the RX-8 as it is! Yeah, I know how smooth the engine is. We have a Maxima with the 3.0L engine. To me, it's not as fun as my CL-S's engine. I like to rev and the thing doesn't sound as cool when you rev it high. Maybe it will be different for the Z.

    Convertible - the last Z had a convertible near the end of its life. It was too expensive and heavy. It didn't look as nice as the Mitsu 3000GT Spyder (yes, the Spyder was way too expensive and heavy.) The convertible might go well agaisnt a Porsche Boxster though.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    <<If you would read the posts, you would see that (like I wrote before) that the first year production is set at 30,000; for the WHOLE WORLD. >>

    Actually, I've read Nissan's literature and they mention 7,500 cars for the first 90 day run (http://nissannews.com/cgi/frameset.pl?/corporate/news/2002speeches/reltim2002018160457.html). Depending upon demand that could change. At no point do they say that the 7,500 cars is for worldwide consumption. They give US pricing, not worldwide pricing. If you have an official quote from Nissan saying 30,000 worldwide, let me see it. I've only found a reference to 7,500 in the first 90 days (and they're giving US prices and equipment).

    <<you are somewhat narrow minded but there is commerce outside the borders of the U.S.>>

    How pejorative. Impressive.

    << On top of that, the pre-sell does not include the entire U.S. allotment for the 2003 model.>>

    There's no way in hades the car will pre-sell its entire run. Even if it's only 30k for worldwide consumption, there will be Z's sitting on lots. It is afterall a Nissan. And I am a HUGE Nissan fan. The rest of the world doesn't share me love.

    << And while you are laughing..I see you have a VW Jetta, now that is funny. >>

    By default I own a Jetta. No other manufacturer makes a fun, near-luxury car with some power - I tried the Rex but the interior is bargain basement, the Sentra SE-R's a joke inside and out, the IS300 is a dog, the Celica's cramped and the shifter notchy and the RSX is a rebadged Civic with honda's wretched i-VTEC. Currently the only car with any moxy and luxury in the Nissan line-up is the 02 Max SE manual. If Nissan hadn't abandoned enthusiasts over the past 6 years, I'd own a Nissan. Unfortunately, unless one wants a boat-like Maxima, there is no Nissan alternative that offers fun, speed and luxury.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    The Maxima is not a boat, it's just a mid-size car, which you would certainly not consider it if you are looking for a crammed compact.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The boat comment is really related more to the car's turning radius, floaty ride and impresice handling. Even with the SE option, the Max lacks the kind of roadholding one would expect from a car in the mid-to-high 20's. Thankfully the G35 is coming out. The FM platform shared with the Z will do wonders for Nissan (hopefully)...they're finally returning to making cars with soul. I'm quite excited about the two new FM cars. :)
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    the point is that the M3 will be about the same lbs/hp as the Z is assuming 300hp which is likely, the point is that the M3 is a great handeling very very fast (4.9s) car...so the Z probably will be also but for a lot less dough....and if you dont like it, dont buy it...more for me.
  • drivebywiredrivebywire Member Posts: 20
    -Multi-link forged aluminum suspension bits and rear crossmember - Critical to the car's performance (which chassis engineers claim saves about 44 lbs overall).

    -Carbon drive shaft.

    -The new Z will be lighter than the previous-generation Z32, but it's still no featherweight. Many decisions which can affect the car's final curb weight still remain; preliminary estimates have the car at about 3,190 lbs, or about 300 lbs lighter than the Z32 twin turbo.

    -In production trim, the VQ will make at least 280 hp. Given the car's current weight, a minimum of 290 hp is necessary if Nissan is to meet its goal of 11 lbs per horsepower. Considering the engine already makes 240 hp in the Altima and 255 hp in the Maxima, finding another 30 to 40 hp isn't an unrealistic expectation.

    - Several changes will be made to bump power in the Z version of the engine. Since the Z's engine is longitudinal, it will receive a new intake manifold. The Z engine will get variable cam timing on both the intake and exhaust cams--the Maxima and Altima have this feature only on the intake side.

    -Also likely is a change in the cam spec from that of the Altima and Maxima, but the 6500-rpm redline will remain. Two catalytic converters (one on each side) will be placed immediately after the exhaust manifold collectors in each downpipe.

    - Nissan has settled on the dual exhaust exits in the rear fascia however, the exhaust is yet to be finalized.

    - Farther down the drivetrain resides Nissan's new six-speed rear-drive transmission or five-speed manually shiftable automatic coupled to a rear-end housing with a viscous limited-slip differential.

    - There will be significant changes to spring rates and shock valvings.

    Nissan is too reluctant to reveal any detailed performance spec so far. I am sure there has to be a reason..... and we all will see once pre-orders arive...

    One thing for sure, $50,000 worth of performance for $30,000! Uncommon on a car in this price range, Nissan has managed to cross-platform the exotic suspension bits with enough other cars so it can amortize development and production costs to give enthusiasts a true performance-car suspension for only slightly more than an economy car price.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    Who would order a car with money down without knowing the performance and HP figures. You may not even like the car after driving it. I think Nissan is smart to get people interested now and take there non-refundable deposit. By years end Nissan can then brag about how many cars they sold. The old Trojan horse theory may be just what they need.
  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    Why are some of you guys on the forum? 85% of what everyone has to say is negative. Are you knocking it cause you want it, but don't have the guts to get it. This will be my 4th Z car. So far they have all been stellar. After 7 years of waiting, a $500 non-refundable deposit is worth the risk. I'm buying the opportunity. I may get to the dealer, drive it around the block and walk away. But I really doubt it. Bye the way, the dealers are setting the deposits policies individually, not Nissan. Also people buy autos all the time before driving them. Just ask your Mercedes dealer. Almost every new model is pre-sold for awhile. I sell Land Rovers and have pre-sold 5 2003 Range Rovers (due in June) already. They go on what facts, current reviews, and past history they have had with the brand.

    Now lets here from the Z fans.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    My Nissan dealer is getting $2,000 deposits (non refundable). They cannot tell me HP ratings as well as 1/4 mile or 0-60 figures. Many car company's pre-sell there cars, but the car is a redesign and has a recent history to judge it by unlike the NEW Z. I am excited to see this car coming back and would consider one myself in a couple of years but until then I will wait and see.

    BYW, My personal policy is I never will pay sticker for any car.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I don't mind paying over sticker for the car if the car is worth it. You pay what the market bears, and that's just life.

    However, I will never buy a car I do not have an opportunity to test drive, especially a hyped car, and I'm beginning to dislike the hype. "It's performance is unbelieveable!!! (but we can't tell you exactly what its performance is.)" seems to be their advertising campaign philosophy...
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I got my 2000 Maxima SE for $24K. Name one mid-size car in that price range that has the power and handling that the Maxima has. I'll tell you nothing from Toyota or Honda comes close. The Passat V6 is closest competitor. Problem is that the Passat is not as fast as Max, not sporty enough, and not as reliable.

    Back to the Z...

    If anybody is starving for more power here's what you do. Stillen makes a supercharger for the Maxima which costs around $4,000. Since the Max and the Z share engines I am sure you wouldn't have a problem slapping the SC to the Z and watch out!.

    Peace

    Speed
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    well... now is a good time to "knock" this Z... why? Because it is not out yet... once it is released then you'll see many glowing reviews and praises (Hallelujah, brother!) - there is still time to say negative things to that Nissan has a chance to address them before release... how about it?
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    I drove a Maxima once. It was a nice car. The engine was great and it was fast, especially out on the highway. I never really thought of it as "sporty" though. Maybe sporty in comparison to a camry, but that is not the best measure of sportiness. The Maxima seemed kind of soft and numb to me. Not knocking the car though, I really don't think it was intended to be a sport sedan. I just hear a lot of people desribe it as such and am curious about that.

    sorry about being completely off subject.
  • drivebywiredrivebywire Member Posts: 20
    I paid $500 non refundable deposit with MSRP. If I change my mind, I am sure with limited number of availibility in August, I can always tranfer my new shipment of the car to anyone for couple of hundred dollars.

    Jim Xo, sphinx, do you want to be the first one to have La-man sunset performance in August if I change my mind? :)
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    the engine is the thing that makes it sporty. The engine is very responsive and free revving which would make it a good engine in a sportscar. Of course, you can find the same engine in Nissan Pathfinder as well... Yes, the handling of the Maxima is not its forte. Perhaps you will have a different reaction after a drive in an Altima SE.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    When I think of sporty though I don't just think of having a good engine. IMO great handling is more important for sportiness than great acceleration. I think you must have some of both though to be considered this.
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    like I said... that is the sporty thing for the Maxima. Still, sports sedans are not sportscar. They should be considered apples and oranges....
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Everybody is quick to critizise the Maxima's handling, yet nobody has come up with one mid-size car in the Maxima's price range that outhandles it.
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    BINGO!
  • drivebywiredrivebywire Member Posts: 20
    The 3.5L DOHC V6 engine incorporates CVTCS (continuosly Variable Valve Timing Control System), which provides a broad range of HP and torque (Guess what Z will have???). Molybdenum-coated pistons reduce friction, retaining engine power.

    On top of that we have Nissan Direct Ignition System (NDIS) to ensure accurate combustion timing and max power.


    [FOLLOWING IS A QUOTE]

    - High-efficiency intake manifold with equal-length intake runners

    - 10.3:1 compression ratio

    - Noiseless timing chain

    - ETC (Electronic Control Throttle Chamber)

    - Drive By Wire (my favorite!) for faster throttle response.


    image

  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    The Z has a Corvette engine that is modified to be H-configuration.....
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    response to #421 Thats because they don't sell them here in the US. This is strange because we have the biggest market in the world for mid-size cars.

    I wasn't knocking the maxima like I said. For what kind of car it is meant to be, it is great. But that still doesn't mean I would call it sporty. Its not a sporty car so not calling it that is not an insult.
  • 92drexel92drexel Member Posts: 153
    Hey the March 2002 issue of Motor Trend (pg 56) has a picture (only 1 picture) of the 350Z convertible. It looks pretty good (sort of reminds me of an Audi TT). I wonder what the premium will be?

    I agree that the Maxima is "sportier" than its intended competition. It's no BMW 330 (and far from a boat), however it has great options, great power, will out-handle most in its class, and offers a manual transmission with a V6. I think the manual transmission is what gives it it's "sportiness".
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    It kind of surprizes me that honda didn't offer the type-r accord over here. It would have had no competition in its price catagory and considering that the USA is probably the accord's number one market, I highly doubt it would have failed. I think auto manufacturers in the last 10-20 years have been unwilling to take any chances with us. They always play it safe. Well I think that is all changing now, (i hope so anyway).

    So yeah, the maxima is the sportiest mid sized sedan for the money. Nobody else has even tried.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I still don't see how a car with the body roll of the Maxima can be considered sporty. My impression of it was more like a poor man's LS400. Solid acceleration, features, and a pretty comfy ride. With the sloppy suspension bits (and especially those shocks) it didn't feel as nimble as a base Accord on turns. And it's rather pricey.

    I'd take a base 325i over it for basic things like a real suspension, precise steering, and good tires. Someone please supply some empirical evidence that the Maxima handles well, because from driving impressions it sure doesn't.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    LS430 Motortrend july-2001
    Slalom, mph 58.10

    Infinity I35 (the luxery clone of the maxima with a softer suspension) Motortrend Nov-2001
    Slalom, mph 62.40
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    This month's Motor Trend has a one-year test wrapup of the 2000 Maxima. Their headline is, "A legitimate player in the mid-priced sport-sedan contest." They also say, "Senior Editor Matt Stone dubbed it 'one of the few front-drivers that qualifies as a legit sport sedan.'"
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    Did you drive the SE model or a different one? The SE model has a firmer suspension and better handling than the other two models.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ..since I think I've seen your a fan of the S2000. But I kept my 1995 Maxima SE when I bought my S2000 and still feel compelled to defend the Maxima honor.

    Look, it's not a 3-series. And no FWD sedan made by anybody else is, either. The 3 series is the premier SMALL RWD sedan in the world. But the Maxima is clearly the leader within it's class, IMO. No Accord, Camry or other Japanese offering has ever come close to offering the same "fun to drive" rating. The last R&T issue I have listed the 2000 Accord EX V-6 at a whopping 0.76g on the skidpad. My wife's Isuzu Trooper could almost match that (0.74g). The only FWD cars I have ever driven that I would concede as near equals against my 95 Maxima SE relative to handling are Audi A4 and VW Passat. Neither of which had anywhere near the power/acceleration at the time (1995), and still haven't caught up.

    I know from your previous posts that you own a Prelude and are quite satisfied with it. However, with all due respect, you're living in a glass house when it comes to cars that are oxymorons. I've seen plenty of criticisms of the Prelude as being the best car in it's class - which is????? None. There is no such thing as a FWD sports car. It's too heavy for a sporty coupe. And on and on..

    So, whether you personally consider the Maxima a "sport sedan" or not, I respectfully suggest reevaluating it against the true competition. I just had a buddy of mine over who got a new TL-S that he wanted to show off. After a few spins through my favorite test course, he conceded that my 7 year old, 120,000 mile 5-speed Maxima was the sportier feeling of the two. Albeit I conceded that his TL-S was smoother and quieter.

    P.S. As for other's who suggest the new Altima may be a better handler than the current Maxima, you may be right. But I don't think by orders of magnitude. And if you can overlook the Altima's inferior interior, you are a better purist than me.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    When shopping for a sporty 4 door sedan I test drove the Honda Accord V6, the Toyota Camry V6, VW Passat V6 and the Maxima SE. By far, the Maxima was the sporty one in the bunch. Not only in terms of acceleration, but the ride was more taught than all others except maybe for the Passat. Nissan also make the sweetest V6 in the planet, the VQ was so ahead of the competition it was no contest. Sorry folks, but there is only one japanese mid-size sport sedan in the low to mid $20's and it's the Maxima SE.
  • hgileshgiles Member Posts: 66
    Is this the 350 Z forum? ;-)
  • jay_75jay_75 Member Posts: 10
    well........as long as we are talking about the VQ, I'd say we are are kind of on topic.

    Does anyone know what specific engineering challenges there were in converting an engine from FWD duty to RWD duty? I would think it would be pretty tough....different transmissions, weight balance, etc.

    but then again, I'm not an engineer
  • hgileshgiles Member Posts: 66
    I was initially interested in the performance pack with its 18" wheels and vehicle dynamic control. But after thinking about the differences in 17 vs. 18 inch wheels and the $2200 dollar difference between the enthusiast and performance packages I am now considering the enthusiast trim level. Any thoughts out there about the pros and cons of the different wheel sizes. $2200 is a lot more imho. I know VDC comes with it, but hey the enthusiast has traction control and a limited slip differential.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    The primary change involves rotating the engine, since its a V6 (as apposed to a longer I6 or even V8) it is about square so no mater what way you put the engine its about the same size...The transmission will be very different though, as will the torque converter in the auto version.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Hey, I'm on your side with the Z and Maxima. I do like the Max a lot. In fact, it's the best car in Nissan's current line up. Love that engine. And while I'm not big on the non-IRS, the car still feels way ahead of its comp in everything but luxury, which the Passat wins easily.

    As for the Z, I'm looking forward to trying one on. That FM platform seems keen. Of course, I'll probably go G35 if the fun quotient is high enough.
  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    I noticed that Edmunds.com has put up some prices and info on the 2003 350Z. They show list prices in line with the Nissan web site. The TMV (true market value) is listed at $1,800.00 over. They also comment that dealers will get list price and demand will be very heavy. From what I have seen, the "TMV" tends to be pretty close to the truth.(While of course not 100% accurate, especially in certain regions, I think it gives a good sense of the country's average selling prices on new autos). However I wonder how they got this figure on the 350Z only two weeks after the pre-sale started.
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    I don't know how accurate Edmunds TMV really is. It seems like an informed shopper can almost always do better than TMV. For example, I bought a new Altima a few months ago. Edmunds TMV at the time was straight MSRP, but I got mine for $2k under MSRP with no haggling.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    It depends on the region you're in. I remember back over the summer when TMV on a Honda S2000 was a few thousand more than MSRP, dealers here in NY were advertising them for a few thousand under MSRP. Check with your dealer. There's a guy on this board who says there's a dealer in San Diego that will give a discount from the get go (and if you're willing to wait).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    That was the ad on sticker on a new honda coupe when they came out. I dont know what idiot thinks someone is gonna pay OVER sticker on one of the biggest mass produced cars, but o well. Nothing like unscrupulous dealers...

    DL
  • hgileshgiles Member Posts: 66
    Just let the lemmings swim into the dealers and pay over MSRP for a brief time. This car is awesome and will be a great deal, but the hype will die down. They are going to make so many of them. I bet below MSRP will occur around this time next year.
  • drivebywiredrivebywire Member Posts: 20
    NissanDriven just came out with 3-4 additional photos for Z. One is for rear spoiler and other is carbon fabric interior.

    Carbon fabric looks real good but spoiler sucks! This spoiler looks more like old infiti XJ?'s spolier.

    Also, Ray's 18 incher looks lighter.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    you can delete the spoiler at no cost.
  • mikekabrisky1mikekabrisky1 Member Posts: 28
    I pre-ordered my Z Saturday. Got a Silverstone Enthusiast 6MT and was interested in leather, but the dealer said leather was only for Touring and Performance models. Oh well, at least i got it for MSRP. Can't wait until August!!
  • dat2dat2 Member Posts: 251
    Am interested in opinions on ride quality of the new z. a quote from nissan in one of the magazines says they are shooting for ride that is not bone jarring...more mature or sophisticated. very un- s2000.

    i currently drive a 96 240sx with 115,000 miles, and am considering the new z, howver dont think i want a car that rides much harder than my 240 (for daily driving). any thoughts on this?

    i am pretty confident the new z will be fast, and handle solidly, howvr am curious about what the ride will be like!
  • mikekabrisky1mikekabrisky1 Member Posts: 28
    Is it ok to drive a car w/o a license's plate on the rear? Or is it the front? Does it depend on the state u live in? Thanks.

    P.S: Dat2, not sure about the ride since no demo Z will be at any dealerships. The owner will be the only one to drive the car.
  • snaphooksnaphook Member Posts: 130
    Unfortunately if your state issues you 2 plates in all likelihood it is mandatory to place them on front and back. I live in one of these states (MD), and I really think the front plate will detract from the appearance of the Z. It amazes me that with all the technical innovations that have occurred in the auto industry we are still using the same archaic method of identifying a car. Also, if your state issues only 1 plate, like FL, it must go on the back.
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