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Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I can tell you from experience if the car's painted, the first thing that the dealer you try to sell the car to is going to say is, 'this car's been in an accident', and will drop the value. Carmax also checks the cars for overspray and fender bolts turned when you take them in to get worked on.

    My 01 Protege had to have the left front fender painted due to a hit and run 3 weeks after I got it. Carmax dropped like $2000 off the price when I took it there for an evaluation after the work had been done. Not a good sign for resale, which is already going to take a hard enough hit from rebates on a brand new for 03 car.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Exactly.

    But.....I wonder if a Mazda dealer could low-ball you on a Mazda6 trade because of that?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Well how many Mazda6 owners would trade in a Mazda6 and get something else from Mazda? I know if it were me, I wouldn't be willing to give the company another chance right away after having my almost brand new car rust.

    It's a good point though. They should do some kind of discount if you trade in your Mazda6 for another '6' or another Mazda. I think VW runs these specials from time to time.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    Well how many Mazda6 owners would trade in a Mazda6 and get something else from Mazda? I know if it were me, I wouldn't be willing to give the company another chance right away after having my almost brand new car rust.

    That's the difference between you ad me, I guess. Nothing else in my price range matches my list of requirements from a car as well as the Mazda 6. Nothing is even remotely close! If my car were rusting noticeably (which, I'll point out, so far it isn't) I would still take whatever reparations Mazda offers, and then watch the market when I'm looking for my next new car in 2005/6/7 whenever. And if a Mazda suits my needs better than the others (which I don't doubt it will!), then another Mazda it will be.

    As for discounts for previous owners - through all of June/July/August Mazda offered a Mazda Owner Loyalty Rebate of $1000 which I made use of. While it was the clinching factor for me to mkae the purchase AT THAT TIME, and not bother tow ait for a hatch, it was NOT a clinching factor in the selection fo the car. ie - I would have bought another car if it suited my needs better, even without the loyalty rebate.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,434
    If the 6 is scaring you off (for the rust issue), maybe save a few $$, and downsize slightly to the upcoming 3. Sounds like the Japanese plant hasn't had problems with the paint process, and hopefully the 3 won't suffer from this defect either.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    Just because robots assemble cars these days does not mean the human error factor is out of the equation. Consider an example where a robot paints cars, and the technician is not very attentive, and the paint supply is low or not as pure, so a few thousand cars get sprayd with the bad paint. Even though robots did the work. The human error factor is in almost everything we do. Machines can be precise in doing tasks repeatedly, but when special situations arise, the human part is usually the one to make a mistake.
  • housethouset Member Posts: 36
    Can someone please post again where exactly you need to look for the rust. I checked the doors and didn't see any, but I'd like it if someone could repost what we need to do and where to look.
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    houset: Look at the frame of the window and find the rubber molding that surrounds the border. Simply lift up the bottom of the molding with your fingers and look under it all across the channel. The two areas that are welded is where the rust would be forming. It may look like dirt and can be wiped off but it is surface rust coming from the inside of the welded seams. If you don't see any discoloration than you're OK for now. Also check the hinges on your doors as well as open the trunk and check by the weatherstrippng in the gutter area at the top part of the trunk. Not the trunk lid itself but the area bordering the trunk. I hope that makes sense and good luck!
  • mes58mes58 Member Posts: 21
    Well, I am in that unfortunate club of people who have identified rust on their vehicles. Mine is a Black 6i, built 03/03, bought 06/03 and currently about 6800 miles. After seeing the messages here, I did a quick check on my car and I found rust on the two front doors so I called up Mazda to complain. The guy I talked to acknowledged that they are aware of the "small" problem and said I should take the car to the dealer and that the dealership would repair the car.

    I know I have to take the car to the dealer eventually but after all the discussions here, the talk of this being a small problem that the dealer would fix easily made me uneasy. What do you folks think?
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Personally I would take the fix but insist on it being done right. Having done a fair amount of body work and car painting in my life, I also believe that this is a problem that can be repaired by a good body shop and the repair will not be detectable if done properly.

    I have a friend that had a Z28 with defective paint on the hood. He took it to a Chevy dealer who sent it to a body shop to paint the hood. He didn't like they work they did so he took it back and insisted that they do it over again. They did.

    Just my $.02 ...
  • pubdefpubdef Member Posts: 14
    Here's a link to an article I found at the "Automotive Design and Production" website about Mazda's new painting process for the Atenza/6. Maybe the method wasn't used at Flat Rock and should have been, or maybe it just didn't work as well there as in Japan...

    http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/090209.html
  • igota6sigota6s Member Posts: 5
    I did a much more careful rust check this evening and am happy to say I found none at all. My 6S was built 12/02 as I recall. Could it be the earlier ones are less susceptible to the rust? Did they change the manufacturing process after the 1st of the year?
  • redc0ugarredc0ugar Member Posts: 55
    The Mazda6 Hatchback is awesome! Very soon it will be my Husband's new ride. The quality that comes from AutoAlliance is outstanding.
    My 2 cents? Keep America working, the $ in the USA...and a car that will last in your driveway.
    ZoomZoom
  • buggywhipbuggywhip Member Posts: 188
    That new painting process merely reduces the environmental hazards of painting a car; it does not create a superior paint job. Probably inferior, IMO. It combines painting steps that probably are best left alone..............redcOugar, while I appreciate your affection for Flat Rock, it's rather astonishing that you can claim such enthusiam in light of previous posts by enraged 6 owners. Have you been following this board for the past 3 wks or so?? Your beloved AutoAlliance has literally destroyed the automotive faith and broken the hearts (and wallets) of many Mazda enthusiasts. No one is villifying AutoAlliance or Mazda (yet), but their gaffe is absolutely inexcusable.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    looks like they may have used the 6 as the guinea pig for some new painting shortcuts.

    Lets hope its not Vega, part 2.
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    "My 2 cents? Keep America working, the $ in the USA...and a car that will last in your driveway."

    So, I guess that means buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry? I went against my own intuitions by buying something built at AutoAlliance. The funny thing is that in Mazda's press releases, Mazda boasts about bringing a large team from Japan to ensure the quality of the AutoAlliance assembly prior to Job 1. Maybe they left too soon?
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I think American Car Companies are a part of the Auto alliance. I don't think Honda and Toyota are. I think Mazda is because they are 34% by Ford. I don't the Auto Alliance destroyed anything. The Flat Rock plant is responsible for this rust issue not anybody else. Not a union even. Have you ever seen a 2003 Ford or Chevy rusting? I sure haven't.

    After seeing the Red Sox or Cubs self destruct I'm still convinced Mazda is cursed. The Red Sox curse started when they traded Babe Ruth away the Yankees and the Mazda curse started when Ford put their tranny in the 94 626. Honda(just can't be beat)is the New York Yankess of the auto industry and Mazda is the Red Sox of the auto industry(just can't seem to catch a break.)

    I agree with Buggy Whip this rust issue is inexcuseable.

    I saw a new 6 with new car tags on it yesterday on my way to work. It had the sport grille and was silver. This car seems to be attracting a wide range people of all ages.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    http://pda.ananova.net/news/story/sm_796050.html?menu=business

    "In the magazine, the CA gave marks out of 10 for the ability of models to withstand theft from the car and theft of the vehicle itself.

    Among medium cars, the Kia Rio got just one point in the theft-from table, with testers getting into the boot in just 10 seconds.

    Testers were able to get into the main part of the Rio and also into the Fiat Doblo, Hyundai Matrix and Renault Avantime in less than half a minute.

    But they were unable to get into - even after trying for five minutes - the Ford Fusion, Lexus LS 430, Mazda 6, Saab 9-3 and Seat Ibiza."
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    To clear things up... AutoAlliance International is the name of the Mazda/Ford joint-venture manufacturing facility located in Flat Rock, Michigan. It began production in 1987 of the MX-6 and was known as Mazda Motor Manufacturing (USA) Corporation (MMUC). In 1992, amid Mazda's financial turmoil, Ford agreed to purchase half of the plant and it became AutoAlliance International, Inc.

    It became a union (UAW) plant in 1988. It has produced the 626, MX-6, Ford Probe, Mercury Cougar, and now produces the Mazda6. It will also produce the 2005 Mustang.
  • gkearns56gkearns56 Member Posts: 49
    "AutoAlliance by jstandefer" noted that the Mazda6 has a union shop. This is part of the reason American built cars (also "transplants") have inferior quality problems. My brother has worked on the line building Ford Motor Company products for 32 years now. Seems where ever the union is in the auto industry they're more succeptable to quality problems. The Honda's Marysville plant is not unionized yet(family works there also) and they produce a very nice car - Accord.

    If it doesn't have a "J" (Japan) in the first letter of its VIN#, then I may have to research that car a little more.
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    " But they were unable to get into - even after trying for 5 minutes - the Ford Fusion, Lexus LS430, Mazda 6, Saab9-3 and Seat Ibiza."

    That's good news, but if the 6 is easily stolen it gives you a simple way to get rid of your rust problem with the insurance company covering the full price of the car for the 1st 18 months. You just can't win.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Maybe that is the way insurance works in Canada, but in the US it most assuredly does not cover the full price of the car, just its depreciated value.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Then you are rid of it.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Maybe you could leave it unlocked with the keys in it. ;)
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    at least wait til Mazda figures out what the fix is. You don't want another off the production line with the same problem (and a different option configuration). :)
  • buggywhipbuggywhip Member Posts: 188
    I suppose it's easy to blame the UAW for any quality issues. But it's too hard to substantiate and prove. The fact is, however, that the Camry, Accord and Altima plants are not unionized; the 6 plant is. A bit compelling on its face, but nothing more...........it is also a fact that 6 prices have fallen drastically here in the Northeast. A 6i automatic can be had for $15k, at least based on newspaper ads. Mazda can't be making a profit with such discounts. It also can't be selling many cars.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Dealers set final selling prices, NOT manufacturers. As long as Mazda doesn't have to incentivize the vehicle, they couldn't care less what it sells for at dealerships. Its profit remains the same per unit.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    If there are no incentives on the vehicle the prices wouldn't be so low. Dealers aren't in the business to give cars away. A 14,999 Mazda 6 has incentives somewhere. Marketing assistance, spiffs, volume discounts, dealer rebates. The dealer is gonna make his money on on end or the other. Or your neighborhood Mazda dealer will suddenly go Toyota.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    It can't go Toyota. If Mazda dealers could have gone Toyota, they would have long ago. The relatively weak dealer network is one of Mazda's biggest problems. Toyota franchises were snapped up years ago and are almost never available.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Mazda may be issuing a Press Release regarding the "rust" next week. Let's hope it meets our needs.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    My guess is that a repair solution will be offered on a case-by-case basis, no door replacement, no buy-back offer.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    lets hope at least they have found the technical reason for the rust....i.e. what the cause is. Then they can fix it before I go shopping soon for my new 6.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I agree totally with post 14705 in regards to automobile unions.

    The 6 is doing well in the northeast. I have only seen 2,000 dollar discounts on 6's. The rest have to be dealer incentives. Newspaper ads are gimmicks just get you into the car dealer. The problem with the 6 is Mazda once again has a good product but the rust issue is going to kill sales.

    Lastly, all cars have their mechanical problems. Honda, Toyota, and Nissan do have mechanical problems with their cars unionized or not. A car is a man made machine. Man Made Machines can break at times.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Insurance must be different between the US and Canada. The car goes by the book value no matter how new or old it is. I went through a prime example just about 4 months ago when my 2002 vehicle was totalled. It actually came up short what I owed on it, but thank God I had GAP insurance.

    Definitely recommend that insurance on any new car purchase, especially the way cars loose value (rebates, incentives, special financing, etc. to blame) these days.

    It's also good that the '6' is a pretty hard car to steal. But believe me, if one wants it, they will get it no matter how they have to. Or they will just ruin the car completely like mine was.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I would be remiss if I did not also point out that car liability and collision insurance in the US does NOT cover intentional loss. If the policy owner (or one acting at his/her direction), wilfully caused or allowed the loss, there is no recovery. None. Zero.

    So, if you leave your keys in the car in the fond hope that someone steal it, if the company can prove this, they no pay. However, if you forgetfully leave your keys in the car and it is stolen, some policies will pay and some still won't. It all depends on the state law, the policy and the company.

    Best to hope for resolution of the rust problem by Mazda, not by wandering thieves.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I have decided to put a plug n play satellite radio unit in my next car. Others want to install MP3 players, etc.

    Does the standard Mazda6 radio have an AUX in jack? If not, does the optional CD changer?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I don't know about the keys in the car thing. An ex co-worker of mine left her keys in her 2000 Accord when warming it up and it was stolen. They recovered the car and repaired it, so I don't know. I also don't know what company she has, she told me before but I forget now.

    I didn't think the insurance would cover that either actually.
  • accord7accord7 Member Posts: 96
    My work in outside sales consists of start and stop driving every day. I probably start my car about 15-20 times per day, which is rough on any vehicle. Any idea which transmission (5-speed or automatic) would hold up better for the long term? I don't know enough about Mazdas suppliers to know. Thanks in advance.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Everyone knows we were just joking about intentionally leaving the keys in the car, right?
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Multiple starts shouldn't affect the transmission much. It'd be much harder on the engine and starter motor.

    If you do a lot of stop-n-go driving (like on a congested road), then the AT would be much less of a hassle. You might wear through an MT's clutch faster due to all the shifting, but if you like driving an MT, you might miss that when the road clears. Between the two AT options, I like the 5spd one, but it's available only on the 6s. It's made by JATCO (joint venture by a few Japanese car mfrs, including Mazda and Nissan). It's been used in the MPV and has been good to my knowledge (JATCO units are usually good, but they have made some duds too). The 4spd AT is Mazda's own unit. Either will let you hold or drop down a gear, up to the rev limiter, if you want to do such a thing (such as when approaching a tight turn or on a hill, or just to accelerate harder).
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    Could someone clarify the exact auto tranny used in the 4-cylinder? I thought it was the "GL" tranny, which is Mazda's and used in the Protege and previous 626 V6. However, I have heard many reports that it is the infamous Ford-sourced CD4E tranny that was used in the 4-cyl 626, Probe, and MX-6... a tranny that has created many enemies for Mazda and has made many tranny shops quite profitable.
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    Before buying my Mazda6 I had a friend who used to work as a GM engineer comment on how bad the unions are. They would basically clock 8 hours while doing half as much work. And the environment is, if one individual is too productive, other union members will ridicule him because he's making everyone else look bad. I dismissed this when I bought my Mazda6. But now I'm having second thoughts.

    The whole structure of a union is to get something for nothing just because there's a large group of people. It may work well in civil disputes or revolutions, but not in a capitalistic market where competition drives out any inefficiencies. I would prefer my car built at a plant where workers are rewarded for putting in extra effort. It's the whole point of compensation packages. And unions are completely disruptive of this system. How else do you separate the lazy workers from the productive workers? Unions group them all together so they all chug along at the lowest common denominator.

    Also, while I am in a field where jobs are being exported to other countries. I do not want the U.S. to have some regulations to artificially keep jobs here. It is only a temporary solution like the steel tariffs. Eventually global competion will catch up and the U.S. will be left behind and loose it's current status as the trade partner of choice for many other countries, and then things will be even worse. The reason jobs are leaving the U.S. is because of our inadequate public education system is finally catching up to us. Innovation is drying up. In order to keep this country strong, we need to keep a well educated population and keep innovation going. Otherwise the unskilled labor just goes to another place where they can do the exact same job for less. Money is not a bad thing, it's what our society uses as a tool to assign value to anything, whether it's talent, skills, or materials.

    The action to take when our job is exported to another country is to learn something that's more valuable rather than to whine about other countries are taking our jobs. Of course the latter is a lot easier, we all have a hard time accepting change.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The original purpose of labor unions was to provide a means of collective bargaining to workers who would otherwise be at the mercy of large employers with all the power. It's not always just to get something for nothing. I have personal experience with a union that saved jobs when totally justified, but would NOT defend lazy or inneficient workers who were fired. Unfortunately, the situation has all too often become perverted to include all of the things you mentioned. There's no guarantee that a union or non-union shop will produce a good or bad product. It depends on a lot of things, but it's always simpler to just blame the union then find the real cause of the problem.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    It depends a lot on the individuals in it and how well they police their own ranks.

    I definitely think there is a need for them to exist. Go through the labor disputes of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the US. Read up on the working conditions that were prevalent during those times. The main reason we're not subjected to those is unions.

    However, with power comes opportunity for abuse. And many union shops fall prey to this. Many do try to throttle everyone back. Many do have slackers, and cover for them. Many also keep a fairly clean house, as their leadership is enlightened enough to recognize such behavior only hurts them in the end.

    I'm not familiar with how the union at AAI operates, but it can have a HUGE effect on the quality of vehicles they produce.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >>> with power comes opportunity for abuse <<<

    I usually relate the word "opportunity" with good events.

    Is there a more appropriate word that can be used in this context?

    I know I would have worded this phrase like this:

    "With power comes responsibility"
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Actually the usage of opportunity in that context was totally correct. There is no "goodness" or "badness" associated with opportunity, thought it's true that we usually associate it with doing something good. For example, one can have the opportunity to commit murder.

    And now, I'm going to take the opportunity to end this conversation, at least for my part.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    In my arena the successful carriers such as Continental, South West and JetBlue are not unionized. They enjoy high employee moral which leads to productivity. Management is hands on in almost all areas. One carrier actually has the flight crew clean the cabin post flight. They have daily contact with the "line" employee. They are rewarded monitarily through the success of the airline. How often does John Sweeney visit the "line" employee? I do not see unions being successful in anything other than the Service Sector. Namely, Health Care.

    Of course none of us would be having this discussion if it were not for NAFTA and the Globialization fiasco. I can remember Bush senior and Clinton preaching the gospel of bringing the 3rd world out of the doldrums. Well, it sure seems to going the opposite direction. Anyone who does not understand that there is a global strategy to weaken the economic prowess of the United States should look more closely.

    Then again, back to the Mazda6, if it is a design defect, error in training, or a faulty process design, the odds of it being conceived by a union employee are remote. No?

    Mark. : )
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Ahhh, we are getting pretty far afield of the Mazda6 now, and headed into that area known as "trouble". :)

    Let's leave the political commentary for another message board.

    Thanks.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The Fremont California NUMMI plant builds the Corolla for the US market and Voltz for the Japanese market (yes, a car made an the good old USA exported to Japan!). As far as I know the Corolla is still one of the most reliable cars out there. According to the info on the UAW web site, the NUMMI plant is union (4 year contract signed in 2001).

    I doubt if the rust problem on the Mazda6 has anything to do with the fact that it's built in a union plant.
  • kokaneeplankokaneeplan Member Posts: 5
    I took delivery of my 6s the first week of Aug. Build date is 07/03. No rust yet! Just got back from a 2500 kms. trip across Western Canada and the 6 was great. We hit all types of weather and the 6 performed outstanding in all of the road conditions. Mazda has built a car that IMO is 99% right. I hope the 1% doesn't bite us. The only issues I have with the car is the possibility of rust occuring and future reliability. So far I couldn't be happier about my purchase, great car!
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