Mazda6 Sedan

aperry1 · January 2004

Thanks jstandefer, I think I will just take it to the dealer. I live in Maryland, and to get an oil change at like Jiffy Lube cost about $30, so I will be better off going to the dealer. Thanks again for the information.

buggywhip · January 2004

accord7, you're totally correct. In many cases, the price of a 6 doesn't beat the Accord. In fact, option-for-option, it's often higher. Because Honda has been marketing the Accord for 20 yrs. Honda knows what people want and it packages those options utilizing massive economies of scale. Mazda is only now beginning to see what people want in a 6. IMO, without the heavy discounts, the 6 wouldn't be selling anywhere near its target numbers............and jstand, that filter instruction you so nobly offered is enough to dump my 6 dreams. On my current car, I unscrew the drain pan plug and the spin-on filter. Takes 5 minutes. That 6 procedure is nutz.

jstandefer · January 2004

"What about a Passat TDI coming soon in April 04?"

Well, I ran across a Jetta and Golf TDI while roaming a bunch of dealerships today. Unfortunately, because of California's new emissions laws that just went into effect, no passenger car manufacturer will be selling diesels here anymore for the time being. The diesel technology exists to easily pass the emissions requirements, but the diesel fuel sold in the U.S. contains way too much sulfer and won't run in the new engines. Thanks for the suggestion.

jstandefer · January 2004

"The Mini is small? Have you sat in it? It has to be one of the roomiest front seats I've ever sat in, and I'm 6'5" tall."

Oh. I meant it is too small overall. The front seats are fine, in fact roomy. But, the overall feeling is cramped and I am spoiled by the extra room of a midsize, especially while creeping in traffic 3-4 hours per day. Plus, my runs to Home Depot and coming home with a couple of 2x4s just won't work well with a Mini. In the 6, fold down the rear seats and the 2x4 slides right in, no problem.

I have actually decided on a car. A Camry Solara SLE V6. It gets the same highway mileage as the 6i, despite its 225 hp, 240 ft-lbs, 3,450 lb weight, and 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. For gas mileage, I can't do much worse than my 6i, which is averaging just less than 20mpg. Plus, the Solara is amazing comfortable, eerily quiet, and Lexus-like smooth. It has options you just can't get in the 6 (like navigation, stability control, tire pressure monitoring, etc.) and it is even rarer to see one on the road than the 6. Price-wise, I was really surprised. They start at $19,635 and includes more equipment than the base 6. Loaded, it comes in around $27k with a whole lot more equipment and power than the 6. Sure, it doesn't handle as well (but not bad), but I just want isolated comfort while sitting in daily gridlock. I still have the Protege5 for fun.

newcar31 · January 2004

"and jstand, that filter instruction you so nobly offered is enough to dump my 6 dreams."

The Mazda3 has the same design. In all fairness, I've done the oil change on my 6i two times and it's not that hard, it just takes longer.

jstandefer · January 2004

Actually, the Mazda3 2.0L and 2.3L have a spin-on filter. Even all 6's built in Japan have spin-on filters. There is a spin-on adapter that you will be able to get, which is on the Mazda3. I believe it costs $50 from your dealership. I will try to get more information.

newcar31 · January 2004

"Actually, the Mazda3 2.0L and 2.3L have a spin-on filter."

They do? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard, on Mazda's part. Why would Mazda use two completely different filter styles for the same engine? It would make sense if there were clearance problems with a spin on, but there's more engine bay room on the 6i than the 3s. For the most part, Mazda's 4 cyl oil filters were the same and the 6 cyl oil filters were the same with Mazda engines. The little filter was for the 4, the longer one was for the 6. Simple. Not anymore I guess. Now I'm really curious about the reason for the internal filter on the 6i, and the spin on for the 3s.

regfootball · January 2004

was that your silver 6s / blk lthr trailing my green tauri turning into Rm&Bd warehouse this sat?

newcar31 · January 2004

I have a silver 6i 5sp with grey cloth and 35% tint that spends most of it's time in the garage.

I barely drive it because I carpool with 2 other people and we take turns driving each week. So, I only drive to work one out of every 3 weeks and I only live 7 miles from work. If I go out on the weekends, I usually get a ride or take a cab. The miles that I put on my car are mostly leisure driving.

jstandefer · January 2004

My mistake. The Mazda3 2.3L does use a cartridge filter, where the 2.0L uses a spin-on. However, the block is the same between the two engines. You can get the spin-on filter adapter from the 2.0L and put it on the 2.3L block. Price is supposed to be about $50, which may be worth it over the life of the car, especially from a convenience stand-point. Here is a diagram from the service manual:

http://gcubed.sytes.net/gcubed/oilfilter.pdf

In the lower left corner, it shows the 2.3L and 2.0L filter adapters. The part numbers are hand-written on the scan. I didn't write them, so I don't know how accurate they are.

newcar31 · January 2004

Why did Mazda use the internal oil filter design for the 2.3L if the 2.0L is the same block with a spin on?

Also, if you used the spin on filter adapter, how would you by-pass the internal filter?

mazdafun · January 2004

Looks to me like the parts indicated by the #4 (inside the circle) are exchanged, allowing you to use the spin-on filter instead of the cartridge filter. This part takes care of routing the oil through whichever filter fits. Looks like they recommend replacing the gasket when you exchange the oil filter adapters.

The place where each fits on the engine block (to the top-left of the part designated #6) shows 4 small holes in a rectangular arrangement and two larger holes within the rectangle described by the smaller holes. I assume these are the inlet/outlet holes for the oil.

I would think the spin-on one would be much easier to change out with less mess, though the cartridge would mean less metal wasted (as you just replace the filter media, and not the casing). Looks like they recommend changing the gasket on the cartridge filter system. Does Mazda recommend replacing this gasket with every filter change?

jstandefer · January 2004

Yes, Mazda does recommend replacing both the filter cover drain plug O-ring and the filter cover O-ring with each oil change. However, several owners have gotten away without changing them. I changed both of them, but they look like they could easily go 2-3 oil changes. BTW, the large O-ring comes in a Ford Motor Company part bag, with a cardboard Mazda part label stapled to it.

A concern I have with the cartridge filter is the filter cover. It has a spring-loaded piece that the cartridge filter slides onto. It is all plastic, and you can imagine what will happen after years of exposure to high heat. Eventually, the spring-loaded mechanism or the piece that holds it will become brittle and break, meaning a new filter cover. If that happens, it could be really inconvenient when the car is up in the air with no oil in it.

newcar31 · January 2004

"Does Mazda recommend replacing this gasket with every filter change?"

Yup. The last time I did it, I didn't change the big o-ring and when I started it up to check for leaks, oil was shooting out of the filter cap. What a mess. Good thing I had extras.

"A concern I have with the cartridge filter is the filter cover. It has a spring-loaded piece that the cartridge filter slides onto. It is all plastic, and you can imagine what will happen after years of exposure to high heat."

That's not the only part of the engine that I'm worried about. The intake manifold is plastic too. Most automakers are going this way, lets see how it turns out.

Also, is that spin on filter adapter a Mazda piece? I'd be concerned about warranty coverage by installing something like that.

mazda6s · January 2004

I know you've done some auto-cross. How does the 6s do as compared to the 6i?

jstandefer · January 2004

I believe the spin-on filter adapter is a Mazda piece. It does come on the 2.0L engine. And, several European owners have said their 2.3L has a spin-on filter, so their's must use this adapter. The engines in the 3 are built in Japan, where our 2.3L is built in Mexico. As for warranty concerns... I don't know. I'll see if I can find out.

mazda6s · January 2004

I just spoke to Mazda Customer Service. They said they will have the new incentive information tomorrow by noon.

Also, they don't have any specifics on options or packages the Mazda6 hatch yet.

markjenn · January 2004

Dealers and some customers have reported they have ordered 5-doors and wagons, with the first cars due to hit dealers in about six-weeks, yet Mazda customer service doesn't have any info on options or packages yet? Unbelievable.

And while Mazda's web site clearly states that the wagons come only with the V6, we have reliable reports from the LA auto show of displays and specs sheets showing a 4-cyl wagon.

I used to think that Mazda's marketing of their cars was merely incompetent; now I think these folks are total buffoons.

- Mark

newcar31 · January 2004

I'd love to get something like that. I didn't have time to look at that link at work, but I just saw it and it looks pretty easy to swap the canister for a spin on.

What we need to know though is why some of them are canister filters and why some aren't and if there are any other differences besides the oil filter type. After working at oil change shops for years in high school and college, I still don't know the advantages/disadvantages of a canister filter. All I know is that they require more work to change. I don't know why automakers still use them. The spin-on filter was invented a long time ago.

mazda6s · January 2004

They probably know stuff that they aren't allowed to give out yet. Then again, maybe they're still out-sourcing their marketing to the lowest bidder in West Borneo.

buggywhip · January 2004

I am extremely opposed to the cartridge filter. People buy the 6 for an affordable Germanic driving experience, NOT for high Germanic maintenance costs. Nothing beats a spin-on can filter for ease of replacement, availability and affordability. I buy my spin filters at Walmart for $1.97. The 6 cartridge filter is at least 4 times more expensive and 10 times harder to replace. IMO, it's just another thing that drops the perceived ownership value of the 6.

newcar31 · January 2004

the canister style filters should be cheaper because there's no metal, it's just the filter element. I'll bet as soon as there are more of these engines out there, there will be more choices for oil filters besides the dealer.

Between the plastic shroud and the internal filter and o-rings, I just don't trust anybody to change the oil. They usually don't use master techs for oil changes at the dealer, just some kid that used to work at quicky lube. I can just imagine somebody being lazy and deciding not to change the filter. It'd be near impossible to tell if they did or not because you can't mark it and if you could, you'd have to take the shroud off yourself to check. Or maybe they do change it, but they drop a couple fasteners for the shroud and don't bother to find them. Maybe when they're changing the filter, they use a metal filter claw to get the cover off and scuff it all up. Maybe they have grease all over their shoes and they get it on the carpet. After working at quicky lube-type places myself, I'm just too paranoid.

jbhogen · January 2004

Any chance the 6 will see a Mazdafied version of the Duratec 35? That would make north of 270 hp, and would likely require AWD.

jstandefer · January 2004

I highly doubt it. It would probably make the nose too heavy, which would hinder the 6's handling and drop fuel mileage even lower that it already is. AWD, although possible on this platform, would make it even heavier. All this would do is turn it into an Altima... fast in a straight line, but don't ask it to turn. Plus, the price increase will make the 6 even more expensive, and it is already fairly steep compared to the more powerful, better equipped, and more efficient competition.

groovypippin · January 2004

I wouldn't doubt that the new 3.5 L becomes the standard V6 engine across the Mazda line. It's necessary to simply compete in the mid-size and minivan segments.

gee35coupe · January 2004

Although the Galant is HUGE.

jstandefer · January 2004

Judging by Mazda's past history, they've always been behind the curve when it comes to engine power. Remember, up until the 6, the top engine in the 626 was a 165hp 2.5L V6. Most competitors had 4-cylinders that were just as powerful, and a whole lot more efficient. Even Mazda's performance marque, Mazdaspeed, falls way behind the curve. The turbocharged FS 2.0 in the MS Protege and the turbocharged BP 1.8 in the MS Miata push less power than several competitor's naturally aspirated engines.

But, who knows? Maybe Mazda will surprise us.

groovypippin · January 2004

Mazda surprising us. Ford has responsibility for 6 Cylinder engine deelopment in the Ford family of vehicles, just as Mazda has responsibility for 4 cylindr engine development.

What Ford creates will find its way into Mazda vehicles in one form or another.

jstandefer · January 2004

Ford's first responsibility will be to put the 3.5L into the 9 other vehicles they are building on the Mazda6 platform. Perhaps if any are left over, the 6 might see it in 3-4 years.

jbhogen · January 2004

Anybody know how much heavier would the all aluminum Duratec 35 design be than the current Duratec 30? How about the turbocharged 2.3L vs the Duratec 30?

glideslopes · January 2004

Look for the Duratec 3.5 in a 280hp AWD Wagon for 2006.

mazda6s · January 2004

I called Mazda today regarding the new incentives for the Mazda6 as the last ones expired on January 5. The rebate has been increased from $1000 to $1500 for most of the US. You can still get $500 and special financing too.

newcar31 · January 2004

I hear you're looking at Solaras but you were also looking at the Prius.

Have you seen this new Scion? It's a little coupe with Toyota's 2.4L. It's surprisingly good looking for a Toyota:

http://www.scion.com/drive/gallery/drive_tc_gallery.html

twinturbotim · January 2004

I'm pretty much set on getting a 6s, but theres something thats bothering me. I love manual transmissions, I had one on my old RSX. I like manuals alot, but i dont know how it would seem to have a manual in a sedan. I would get an automatic in the 6s if it werent for the huge difference in acceleration. According to modernracer.com, the auto does 0 60 in 8sec fla while the manual hits 60 in 6.8 secs, thats a big difference. Any advice?

audia8q · January 2004

The best advice I can offer is simple...buy what you want to drive! Those who prefer a stick, seem to love the MZ6 manual trans performance.

Go down to the dealer and take one for a spin. That will convince you.

ian2 · January 2004

That car just came out a couple of years ago!

There are plenty of BMW sedans with manuals. For me, it's manual all the way.

jstandefer · January 2004

Yep. I saw the new Tc. It looks nice, especially for a Scion. However, I have been spoiled by the extra room and refinement of a mid-size sedan (in comparison to compacts). If I was going to get a compact, I would definitely get a Mazda3 hatchback. Thanks for the suggestion!

stretchsje · January 2004

"I know you've done some auto-cross. How does the 6s do as compared to the 6i?"

Its close enough that it depends on the driver and the course.

Those more experienced than I notice a HUGE difference in tossibility- the 6i is quite a surprise. Though obviously, the more straights the better chance the 6s has in beating the 6i. So far, I've more than held my own- only losing to a 6s (auto, nonetheless, but with a new intake) once out of 5 or 6 times, and that was because I was spinning out on the course.

I won't choose a favorite, but I will say the car has a possibility of being competitive in its class, which is AMAZING considering its size. In some areas, a 6s MT has won G-stock. It goes up against Celicas, Mini's, etc. You wouldn't see an Accord, TSX, TL, Solara, Altima, etc. do that. Some Saab's do OK though, but mostly the cars I fear are Celicas, Mini's, Focus SVT's, and Integras. Luckily anything RWD is in a tougher class!

Who wants a picture?

Note how well Liquid Glass works...

mjvchicago · January 2004

I have a 6s with MT and if you like to drive stick then you'll love driving a 6 with one. I've had manual's all my life and have found the 6 to be a pleasure to drive. Please don't get the auto... stick with the stick!

carguy58 · January 2004

silver 6 on a used car lot at Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealer a couple days ago and yesterday when I was passing by. That car looked good though. They also had a 00-02 626 and an 03 Mitsu Eclipse parked next to the 6.

mazda6s · January 2004

If it's a 4cyl auto, it's probably a former rental car. They should be hitting the used car lots by now. The only way to make sure is to run the VIN on Carfax.

moose54 · January 2004

If you're interested in the Mazda6 make sure you check out the doors for the rust/staining problem, as well as having the recalled component (fuel tank) checked out.

groovypippin · January 2004

I'm sure this isn't exactly earth-shattering new information, but Automobile Magazine has named the Mazda6 its all-star family sedan for 2004.

A very nice accolade as far as I'm concerned. With all the doom and gloom in this thread over various issues - and I'm not trying to downplay them - it is nice to be reminded of the overall wonderfulness of this car.

If all of the first year bugs disappear in 2004, it will continue to be a suberb choice in that category.

robalakam · January 2004

Sorry, but I have had my Accord for 10 days and it is a great car. I liked the Mazda 6 and the looks and ride but since driving my Accord to work 80 miles round trip each day I wonder if the 6 could do as well. Oh well if I had the money I would have bought both.

groovypippin · January 2004

There is no denying that the Honda Accord is a fine vehicle and for a someone like yourself with a long, boring commute it is probably very pleasant and comfortable in a "Japanese Buick" kind of way.

The reason that different manufacturers make different cars that are different from each other is because different people like different things.

To each their own.

newcar31 · January 2004

"Sorry, but I have had my Accord for 10 days and it is a great car."

It's OK. Apology accepted.

1wiseguy · January 2004

was looking for a car. He really likes my 6 v6 but decided that the Accord was more for him. Well, he went to get it Thursday night and it had a few things wrong with it:
1) Spoiler was hanging off with adhesive tape exposed;
2) radio died 3 times;
3) finally car just wouldn't start.

When he called the dealer the next day, they said "great news" the spoiler fixed itself!! meaning that the spoiler settled back on the adhesive tape by virtue of its own weight.

It goes without saying that he got his deposit back and is now back in the hunt. He should have gotten a 6...

ramped1 · January 2004

The 6 is a great-lookikng and handling car, but most people with kids are going to find it a little small for their use. The upcoming wagon should help there.

The 6 sedan is terrific for singles and couples who don't care about hauling a lot of stuff around.

Still, the rust issue looms. I was all set to pull the trigger on an 03 6s a couple of weeks ago, but the stain was all over three of the doors and the salesman and manager acted like they had never heard of the issue. Enough to dissuade me.

carguy58 · January 2004

If I had a bought a car in 1998-1999 without leasing it I would buy a Mazda 6 now. An 03-04 Mazda 6 is not going to move me up over my 02 Acura CL. I love the 6: its a great looking car. An 04 Acura TL would move me up from an 02 Acura CL but I just can't see trading a car every 3 years.

Anybody looking for a 6 now I would look at an 04 model where the rust issue should not exist. I would not buy an 03.

I do agree the 6 is a great car for couples and singles but for a family I can't see it. I would probably check out a VW Passat or a Toyota Camry for more room. I don't like the bland looks of the Camry but for a family its adequete.

I'm a big 6 fan but probably will never drive one so thats why I post sometimes. I also owned a 626 for a few years and my experience with Mazda was pretty good.

mazda6s · January 2004

The Camry has more room inside than the Mazda6, but the Passat does not. The Mazda6 and Passat are two of the smaller midsize cars and have almost identical interior dimensions and volumes. The Passat does look like a bigger car from the outside though.

Mazda6 Sedan

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