Mazda6 Sedan

blueguydotcom · February 2002

Point taken. LOL

I'd add the Yugo, Suzuki Swift and Geo Metro to the list too.

vocus · February 2002

It's alot easier (and cheaper) to fix up the Jetta's suspension to whip the Protege's butt than it is to fix up the engine in the Protege to whip the Jetta's butt though. I know, I had a Protege ES. Aftermarket stuff is VERY hard to find, I thought. Esp. with automatic tranny.

I can still chip if I want to, even though my Jetta is automatic. It's strong enough to handle the extra power, unlike the Protege's tranny was (or at least I was told).

maltb · February 2002

looks like somebody had the thermostat up a bit high in this room. Glad to see it's on its way back to 68.

Blueguy...I think we all want as much car as we can get for as cheap as possible. There will always be give and take and one manufacturer will please some and another manufacturer will please others. Your best bet is to align yourself with a large faction of individuals and somebody will make the car you want.

Like old Henry said: You can have any color you want as long as it's black.

blueguydotcom · February 2002

That's some freaky advice. I know it didn't play off well when I fought for the Bolsheviks during the revolution. That unwavering support of Milli Vanilli didn't turn out so hot either. Thank heavens my membership in the Martha Stewart Fan Club has paid off though.

newcar31 · February 2002

I don't know about that. How are you going to fix the beam axle? As far as suspension is concerned, the Protege's will always be better. If we both put equal amounts of money into our car's suspensions, the Protege will come out on top every time. The Jetta's suspension design is flawed compared to the Protege's. Anything short of a whole new rear suspension in the Jetta is just a band-aid. I don't know what would be more expensive, a turbo kit or completely reworking the rear suspension.

maltb · February 2002

"That's some freaky advice"

I DO take that as a compliment.

blueguydotcom · February 2002

I love IRS too. The 6 has a full IRS, correct?
I hate the VW beam axle so I was really shocked to read in this month's Motor Trend that the GTI pulled through the slalom at 65 mph. Talk about shocking.

By the way, can you hit 200 HP and 240 lb-ft of torque (at 1950 rpm) with a simple $400-500 mod? Didn't think so.

newcar31 · February 2002

Yeah, I know that the Jetta's engine is easily tuned. That is the sole reason I considered buying one. I'm talking about suspension though. It would be extremely cost prohibitive to install a full independent suspension in a Jetta. This is not to say that the Jetta can't be made to handle well. Even an old live axle Fox body Mustang can be made to pull 1.0 g on a skidpad. How it handles un-even pavement and ride quality is another thing entirely. I like speed too, but it isn't everything. IMO, the only thing the Jetta has going for it is speed and a fancy interior and I could care less about the fancy interior....especially if that interior rattles a lot.

Yes, the new 6 will have a full independent rear susension.

tiredofmanual · February 2002

That with a superior suspension, you can go into and come out of the corners faster and don't need as much power to go fast around the track...

That said, for $3000 - $5000 you can give a Protege 200HP and 240Lb/ft. When you consider $500 for the chip + $X for the necessary suspension work, the Protege will still be the better buy.

Oh and yes, the 6 will have a fully independant suspension.

vocus · February 2002

Where can you get 200hp for a Protege for $3-5000? The turbo engine from Japan only has 170hp. The 1.8T will blow it out of the water.

Also, what spot did the 2.0L Protege engine on the Ward's 10 Best Engines? Didn't think so.

blueguydotcom · February 2002

To go to a Jetta v. Protege thing. I get sucked into it too, but Pat will come on soon and nail us with paternalistic comments about off-topic posts.

When does the blasted 6 land on this side of the ocean? Is it out in the land of the rising sun already?

vocus · February 2002

I read an article somewhere that said the first one was made already. I wish it would hurry up and come over, I am curious and anxious to see it!

ateixeira · February 2002

I'm not worried about the engine. The MPV was reliable with the 2.5l from the Contour. Plus it looks like Mazda really warmed this one over, using pretty much only the block.

Martha Stewart? Didn't K-Mart (they carry her line of products) just go under? ;-)

The Jetta is in a different price category, has a higher center of gravity, less reliability, and requires premium fuel with the 1.8T. It's the polar opposite of the Protoge.

Yes, it has plenty of pros (interior materials, straight line speed), but that's for another topic.

-juice

blueguydotcom · February 2002

You point me to a 20k sedan that's fast, exceedingly safe, has elements of luxury and can be easily modded to hit 60 in sub-7 second times. Time's up.

Trust me, I tried on every car under 35k and the only remaining contenders were the IS300 (too lethargic and at the time saddled with an auto) and the WRX (no interior personality).

For those of us not inclined to blow 40k on a Bimmer yet, it's one of the few options. Maybe the Mazda 6 or the G35 will pop up as viable alternatives. I know I want to have another choice. Currently there's nothing out there.

pat · February 2002

VERY big oops!!!

I'm sorry, I just accidentally deleted the following message from blueguydotcom:I dunno on what planet you're on but a 1.8T with the sports luxury package has an invoice price of 20.1k. I paid 19.5k for my 1.8T wolfsburg with sunroof (one of the only options as no leather was offered ). And I couldn't stomach an altima (love the engine and handling) but the interior makes Legos look polished. Good grief, the Golf/GTI is popular in europe...so what? They also eat boiled foods in the UK and idiot Americans love their SUVs. Should we base all of our opinions on what others do?

If the 6 is really fun with a quality interior, then I may be there. I'll betting on the G35 really winning my heart (RWD and 260 HP from a good engine, the VQ), but I love Mazda handling and craftsmanship, so the 6 is definitely in contention.

Panama, to each his own. And if you had a 99 GLS I'm guessing, you bought a car with a 112 HP pathetic 2.slow (or did ya spring for the VR6). You blew your wad on that? They're fun cars with a VR6 or a 1.8T but the 2.slow? Good grief. I drove the Prot ES. It handled like a champ. It had zero power though. And to me the interior components, like 90% of the cars out there, felt chincy.

Could you guys lay off the Jetta v. Prot thing? Go to my site, http://www.blue-guy.com and see what all the Vortex and Jetta-lovers hate about me...I detest my Jetta. I will slam it in a second for being poorly made, rattling, having horrible handling and lousy dealer service matched by an incredibly wretched manufacturer's warranty. A million apologies, sometimes you just click in the wrong place.

pat · February 2002

was comment that I think a Jetta vs. Protege discussion would be fascinating.

If anyone else thinks the same, would you go over to our Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board and fire it up?

As far as me showing up and fussing about staying on-topic - well, here is my perspective: All topic oriented discussions will wander off-topic from time to time. To me, that in and of itself is never a problem.

It only becomes a problem if the clearly off-topic stuff drowns out the subject of the discussion and/or if the off-topic stuff deteriorates into flames.

Heh, speaking of off-topic, this post qualifies!

Please continue! :-)

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

the_big_h · February 2002

Mazda Protege vs. Volkswagen Jetta

blueguydotcom · February 2002

Good grief, may the most zealous win.

storyteller · February 2002

Nice site, Blue Guy! I share your taste in films.

blueguydotcom · February 2002

thanks.

taddison · February 2002

FYI, The Mazda 6 is at the Dallas Auto Show this weekend. Only the sedan is there (I was really hoping to see the hatchback), but it's unlocked and you can sit in it.

While I thought it looked great and had decent fit, finish and materials (with some leeway given for the fact that it is a preproduction car), I do have one major beef - the center console.

The armrest and the flip-up tray underneath are just plain flimsy. The radio & HVAC stack is made of silver colored plastic that IMHO looks cheap and will show scratches. I would rather have plastic wood than this stuff. The HVAC controls are a novel design but are difficult to turn because they don't protrude out far enough from the fascia. Too bad if you're wearing gloves or have long nails.

And here's the worst thing - the stereo controls are integrated into the fascia, so there is no way to ever install an aftermarket unit. If you want satellite radio, an MP3 player, or a "hearing-loss special" system then you're out of luck unless Mazda sells one.

Hopefully, Mazda will see fit to redesign this piece of the car before they release in the the US market.

I'm holding out for the hatchback, if my current one will last that long...

ateixeira · February 2002

Just checked out that site, I guess prop-rods are a real pet peeve of yours, eh?

Did you know that Kia and Hyundai use struts now? I was impressed. The trunks also use the double-hinges instead of the goosenecks, like the Passat. Little things like that is why I want Mazda to target VW and not Honda.

How could you not like "In the Bedroom"? Spacek was great. It was a case of less is more, IMHO. A Forester was the topic of an entire scene, maybe that's why I liked it, LOL!

-juice

blueguydotcom · February 2002

I'm actually lagging on the car reports. I haven't posted reviews of most of the cars I've driven lately. Oh well.

Sorry, just not drawn to spacek's laconic acting. For my money Berry is this year's queen of cinema.

Tadd, so was it spacious or cramped? How was the leather? Did the doors feel light or heavy?

maltb · February 2002

I guess that dooms the new 7-series as well.

What is with the uni-switch thingy anyway? as it is I hate the AUDIO button on some of these radios.

blueguydotcom · February 2002

Have you used i-drive? It's simple and intuitave, IMO. All the major functions are easy to find and use, without ever having to look for anything. Just drop your hand down and push through functions (it's like using a cell phone menu...you just do it without thinking after a few tries).

I read an Autoweek report and they claimed to be baffled by it. My only thought: the guys at Autoweek are idiots, the kind that look down at their cell phones to dial when driving.

ateixeira · February 2002

I haven't tried it, but don't you have to press the button lots of times to do even simple tasks, like increase the fan speed on the A/C?

-juice

blueguydotcom · February 2002

You never have to increase the fan speed with auto-climate control, do you? I live in San Diego, so my car almost always has the AC or Defroster running on a level near the coolest setting. My experience with auto-climate control cars shows that they blast hot or cold air to reach the set temp and then maintain said temp.

Also, HVAC on the 7 is just one of the normal No-So-Ea-We moves. I don't recall which one. You push to once to get into it and then make your adjustment.

maltb · February 2002

but I am cozy with more than one switch.

ateixeira · February 2002

Sounds easy enough. I actually think that the press criticized M-B's system much more.

-juice

blueguydotcom · February 2002

Me too. The press likes to knock things that are different. I'd be worried about the day the electrical breaks though and the blasted car won't allow you to change anything!

ateixeira · February 2002

Yep, it absolutely has to be 100% reliable.

-juice

dle01 · February 2002

The Mazda 6 looks to be a very appealing design. Although I have not read through all 434 posts on this site, I gather that the engine options will be a 4 cyl. or a version of Fords Duratec V6. Does anyone know if Mazda plans to offer a manual transmission (5 or 6 speed) with the V6?

Personally, I am most interested in the hatchback and/or wagon - I hope one or both of these body styles make it to the states.

ateixeira · February 2002

I believe so. Otherwise it's off my list.

-juice

blueguydotcom · February 2002

Yes the V6 will have a manual. If not, it's not even in contention anymore.

ambull · February 2002

See: http://www.carseverything.com/content/article/1346.3/ heading "New 5-speed Automatic and Manual Transmissions"

venus537 · March 2002

"Did you know that Kia and Hyundai use struts now? I was impressed"

that's nice. how do the trunk lids sound when they are shut. try shutting the trunk lids of the mazda 626, altima or galant. they won't have that solid thump of the accord. i was impressed with how the new camry's trunk lid sounded when closed. hopefully, mazda won't use fords as the car to target.

dle01 · March 2002

Thanks to those of you who responded to my question. The carseverything site is especially informative - based on the detail on the site it appears that a 5 speed manual will be offered. This site has a great deal of information about the engines, and it appears that whether or not the V6 is based on the Ford Duratec, it will be a very unique engine to Mazda. I continue to be very interested in this car, and can't wait to see one when they come out. Like many of you, I just hope they can keep the price reasonable and still provide quality interior materials and styling.

ickes_in_mn · March 2002

The British magazine "Car" has a detailed review of the i-drive system. They say its not ergonomically perfect, but you get the hang of it. THey also had a bit with an airline pilot comparing the technology to the difference between aircraft and how people will eventually adapt.

IMO, the technology is fine, the the whole interior of the car looks like @#%*! Talk about boring and cheap.

Hopefully the 6 will look better. Actually, I thought it looked pretty good except for the "metal" surround on the center console.

blueguydotcom · March 2002

Have you sat in a 7? Once you're in it the car's interior looks exceptional. I'm usually displeased with the interiors of most cars - I can't stand anything currently made by Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Nissan, Ford, GM, subaru, Mazda or Mopar. Jags, MBs, VWs and BMWs are pretty much the only cars with decent interiors in my book.

ickes_in_mn · March 2002

I saw the 7 at Chicago auto show. The crowd around it was so intense I didn't wait to sit in it. I only had a limited amount of time. Hopefully, there will be one here in MN in March.

ateixeira · March 2002

I dunno, our 1995 626 closes its trunk with a solid sounding thunk. Same with the doors. The noise has more to do with the insulation and weatherstripping vs. how solid construction is.

To me the real test of solid construction is the IIHS offset crash test, not a door slam contest. For example, the Legacy aced IIHS tests, but slam the door with the frameless window half open and it rattles. Who cares? The Legacy is far safer than the Accord or 626.

Mazda has room for improvement in the IIHS tests.

-juice

venus537 · March 2002

"The Legacy is far safer than the Accord or 626"

what IIHS tests indicate that the legacy is safer than the accord? i know the accord did better than the legacy in NHTSA Crash Test Results.

vocus · March 2002

In the offset IIHS test, the Legacy did better than any mid-priced mid-size sedan. Look at the results at http://www.iihs.org and click on "test results" once there.

newcar31 · March 2002

Does anyone have picture of the North American version tail lights? NA cars won't have the clear ones will they?

cayennered1 · March 2002

The base model (4 door) at the Detroit Show had red tail lights. The super looking hatchback had clear lights. This was a Japanese model so that may not tell us whether the US version of the Hatch will have clear lenses. They also displayed a more upmarket version of the 4 door which I think had clear lenses but my memory is a little foggy.

My guess is at least some versions of the the US 6 will have clear lenses.

I hope all the necessary info on these cars will be out by late summer of early fall as I have a lease expiration in November and if I were to condsider this car it would probably mean extending my lease or buying my lease car and just waiting for 6 availability in late 2002 or early 2003.

The point is I don't want to do that if this car is not a sure thing for me and I will need to know that before my lease expires. Any Mazda dealer people around to help with this issue?

ateixeira · March 2002

US will probably not see the clears. The Altima kept them, but the Matrix didn't. I bet they don't make it to the US.

Thanks for the link, vocus, and I should correct myself - looks like the newer 626 actually did well, with a "Good" score. The Accord was "Average", but neither matches the Legacy, which was a "Best Pick".

Mazda ought to improve on the design, and hopefully they'll match the best. A new Honda is due as well, so they'll soon get another shot. But in the meantime, the Legacy with the rattle-slam doors still wins in my book.

-juice

ickes_in_mn · March 2002

The car at Chicago (which was the same high-series blue four door from Detroit) had clear lenses. But, they seemed different than the ones on the Japanese model cars I've seen in photos. If I recall correctly, they had clear lenes, but the back material wasn't chrome. I liked what I saw at Chicago as opposed to those of the Japanese cars in photos.

audia8q · March 2002

yeah, but what self respecting guy would want to be seen in a Subaru, alive or dead?...hahaha

ateixeira · March 2002

Have you not seen the WRX? Anyone that would want a car quicker than any production VW made today, that's who.

-juice

maltb · March 2002

The beauty of a WRX is much more than skin deep. While it lack looks, it makes up for it in performance.

Mazda6 Sedan

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