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I own Mazdas (2) and a Subaru, and it's our Mazda 626 that has been giving us big repair bills. If Subaru's reliability is boring, well, you're entitled to that opinion.
-juice
1988
Justy - "MotorWeek" TV-Driver's Choice Award, "Best Bargain Car"
Legacy - Federation International de l'Automobile World Land Speed Endurance Record
1989
Legacy sets two world and 13 international endurance and speed records
1990
Legacy - Home Mechanix "Easy Maintenance Car of the Year"
1991
Subaru SVX - Popular Science "Best of What's New"
Subaru SVX - Automotive Industries "Car of the Year: Annual Engineering Award"
1992
Subaru SVX - Automobile Magazine "1992 All Stars"
1995
Outback - Popular Science Magazine "Best of What's New"
1996
Impreza - J. D. Powers & Associates "Best Compact Car"
Outback - MotorWeek TV "Driver's Choice Award"
1997
Forester - Consumers Digest Magazine "Best Buy"
Forester - AAA 1998 Top Car Awards Outback - Motorweek TV "Driver's Choice Award"
1998
Forester - New England Motor Press Assn. "Best in Class"
Legacy - Kiplinger's Magazine "Best New Car"
Forester - Consumers Digest "Best Buy"
2000
Legacy top performer in IIHS crash tests
Outback takes First Place, Seat of the Pants Class, 2000 Alcan Rally
Outback - Northwest Automotive Press Assn. "Best in Class"
Forester - Consumers Digest "Best Buy" third consecutive year
2001
The 2002 Impreza WRX voted “Most Fun to Drive” by Auto Week Magazine.
Sport Compact Car Magazine names the Impreza WRX one of the Eight Great Rides of 2001.
Subaru of America, Inc. receives the “Consumers Voice Award” from Planetfeeback.com.
I love making fun of subaru's and their owners. They are funny...
it's all in fun guys...get overyourselves and your car.
On the tranny topic, will the 6 have one of those "tiptronic" type transmissions? The Protege just debuted with one, so I wonder if the 6 will have one as well? I sure hope so, because they are pretty cool.
Did you happen to catch a name of the rep you talked to? The folks at autoshows are usually hired just to do shows and basically try to memorize a few tidbits on the vehicles at the show. They are contractors and not factory employees, so don't expect a wealth of knowledge from them. Sad but true.
storyteller:
So where is the Mazda list? TELLING half of the STORY?
And Subies. ;-)
Most of those who clammor for more hp really want more torque anyway. I wish this engine would come to the states, but I am sure it won't. Nobody really wants an engine that gets 50 mpg here.
It seems practical cars don't have the image that many people feel they need to project with a new vehicle - too bad! Kind of the same reason hatchbacks and wagons fell out of favor (but are fortunately making a comeback). Just too practical, and practical isn't cool enough - hopefully that is changing.
I own both, and I prefer cloth. In fact I'd trade the leather seats in my Miata for the cloth equivalent. They'd have to be tan in color, though.
My wife likes leather though. I hope the Mazda 6 is equipped like the 626, where you can get the V6 with or without it.
-juice
Just my $.02
But in many places diesel is much cheaper. So it varies by region.
-juice
As for leather/cloth...I detest cloth for one reason: stains. Leather doesn't stain, doesn't get smudges or marks. It may be warm (not a problem in San Diego) and may get cold (again not a problem here) but one thing it has all over cloth: durability.
Leather vs. cloth: I love the leather in my Jetta. This is the first car I have had with it, and the seats are heated as well. They feel good in the winter, but have not lived through summer with them yet. We shall see I guess. I particularly love leather when my best friend's 2 year old gets in my car and drops his bottle by accident. Milk wipes right up in a second.
example: If you had two identical cars, one with a TDI and one a regular gas engine. (for sake of example lets use the VW Jetta). The TDI gets 42 mpg city and the 2.0L gas engine gets 24 mpg city. Each car has a 14.5 gallon tank. The TDI goes 609 miles on one tank of gas that cost you $22.62 to fill at $1.56/gallon. The gasoline car goes 348 miles on one tank of gas that cost you $15.75 to fill at $1.05/gallon. You need to put 10.875 more gallons of fuel in the gasoline vehicle to reach the same 609 mile mark that the TDI vehicle hit with one tank of fuel. This cost you an additional $11.42. So in effect you spent $22.62 to go 609 miles in the TDI but you spent $27.17 to go 609 miles in the 2.0L gasoline vehicle. So even though the diesel fuel may be more expensive to buy, you get more mileage for your money. If you only put premium fuel in the car then the costs get even further apart. (say premium is $1.24/gallon, you spend $31.47 to travel the same 609 miles). Over the life of the vehicle you will spend significantly less money for fuel on the TDI than you will for a similar gasoline vehicle.
Just an obervation. People alway look at first cost rather than long-term costs.
article is here
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/march/20020306_dai_epa.xml
Heated seats should be mandatory with leather, IMHO. Both of mine don't have heat, though. It would be especially useful in the Miata. The top goes down even in 40 degree weather.
Two times the miles per gallon? Not if you compare it to a gas engine making the same horsepower (even the 2.0l makes 25 more hp). Diesels are generally 20-30% more efficient.
Where I live, the fuel costs 20% more, so they offset and you end up about even, but the diesel model costs more up front. At least here you'll never recoup that, plus you have to look hard to even find diesel, and it's slower than a gas engine.
It makes sense where diesel prices are low, for sure.
-juice
A TDI gets something like 50 mpg and the power is actually supposed to be really nice.
If you want leather seats first ask the grade of the leather that they use and then take basic care of them. Oh, and by the way, I completely agree about the bun warmer thing, they're awesome.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
The TDI has nice torque off the line, but gets wheezy and runs out of steam well before the gas engines do.
I have three cars, two with leather, both of those Mazdas. How's that for getting back on-topic :-).
The Miata's passenger seat is cracked, though I bought it used so I don't know how it was maintained. My wife's 626 has held up well, but it does have some wrinkles.
My cloth seats (3rd car) have also held up well, though. Kids spill stuff - but usually on their child seats or the boosters they sit on, not the seat fabric, which looks perfect despite the child and dog that ride in it constantly.
-juice
That having been said, I am not immune to the "more power" syndrome. I would love to own a Subaru WRX STi and currently have a lease on a Passat 1.8T and I love the performance of the Passat . . . but I think I would equally love visiting the fuel pump less often and saving money there. If they offered the Passat here in the states with the 2.5L V6 TDI that they offer in Europe I would have opted for that over the 1.8T.
Now to veer back on to the topic at hand, I used to own a 4 cyl Mazda 626 and I enjoyed the car but it had the Ford CD4E auto tranny and I ran into problems with the tranny before we got rid of it. I would like to test drive the new Mazda 6 with the V6. I like the sporty nature of the Mazda products and would consider purchasing one in the future. If they offered it with a TDI it might make it appeal to me a bit more.
The new car, I stood my ground. No food or liquids ever. Yet a different female friend somehow managed to sit on gum at a theater and then sit on the passenger seat of my 1.8T!!! I can't win.
The next car must have leather. I'm sick of scrubbing other people's messes outa my cars. hopefully the 6 will have decent (non-Tribute) leather.
Now a 2.5l TDI sounds interesting. They always save the best for Europe. BTW I drove a TDI Passat wagon, so maybe the Golf and Jetta are better suited (i.e. lighter) for that engine.
I heard all about the CD4E woes, but luckily mine was a 5 speed Mazda tranny. I hope they stick with that, and use the Jatco 5 speed auto from the MPV, not the Ford CD4E auto.
I'm sure the 6 will offer leather as an option. That ought to please all of us.
-juice
Lots of times the factory leather is only on seating surfaces, while most of the material is actually vinyl. I know our 626 and Miata are that way. I'm not sure about aftermarket leather, but I bet you can get it either way, too.
BTW, I just got the new car issue of Consumer Reports, and among small SUVs, the Forester was the most reliable pick. The least reliable was the Mazda Tribute. This is why you have to be careful who you tease! ;-)
-juice
Everyone complains about the Jetta's reliability. It's recommended by CR now, so that's cool. Also, the 626 looks to be a very reliable car as well.
626 rates well, I just wish ours would stop giving us problems. It was great for 5 years and since then took a nose dive. I hope that's it.
The only Mazdas do score poorly are the pickup and the Tribute, both with more Ford influence than Mazda, and both built at Ford plants. Other models are joint ventures and share some parts, but they are mostly Mazda and score high in reliability (626, MPV).
That bodes well for the Mazda 6.
-juice
As for the 6, I like the look of the seats I've seen in pictures - not sure what type of cloth it is. If the final production cloth seats aren't as nice I would definitely consider aftermarket leather seats.
BTW, the leather is just one concern. Obviously if the 6 has nice leather but an Altima/Accord like interior, I'll have to pass. I can't do aftermarket on new plastics and switchgear.
Strange about the Tribute. I had no idea its reliability was low. Is that in comparison to the 4 other mini-utes on the road or all cars on the road? That'd be good to know considering the only competition comes from Toyota, Honda and Subaru. If it's just among the segment, then the Tribute may in fact have high reliability among all cars/trucks, but low in its segment. Makes a big difference. Consider the Rav4 comes off the Corolla, the CRV off the Civic and the Forester off the Imprezza. They better be top notch!
CR reliability isn't broken up by segment, it's compared to the average number of problems for all vehicles.
Tribute really stumbled early on, with 5 recalls, some of them quite embarassing. I went to Edmunds Live hoping to sample one and they had a sign that said there were MIA. Later I found out it was because the steering wheels could come off! Another recall had possible rear wheels coming off. That's not a joke.
I don't necessarily blame Mazda. It's an Escape clone, and it's built in a Ford plant IIRC. Mazda has done much better with the MPV, which also shares Ford parts but isn't a clone of a Ford product.
-juice
The reliability ranking may be in comparison to the other 3 (in which case the ranking really means nothing) or the ranking could be due to unreasonable people. If you look at the different boards, you get the idea that a small problem on a Toyota is considered by their owners as a minor inconvenience while the same small problem on a Ford or GM product is seen as a quality concern. I don't know why that is. My parents used to own an Oldsmobile that in the 8 years and 150000 miles that they owned it spent maybe $2000 in repairs. My moms 97 Camry has already surpassed that yet if you ask her about the Oldsmobile she thinks it was a piece of junk while the Camry is the most reliable thing ever built. Did we get lucky on the Oldsmobile? Yes, but the fact remains that if my mom were given a CR survey for the two cars she would rank the Camry much, much higher than the Oldsmobile even though *in this situation* the Oldsmobile should be rated higher. Many people blindly believe that Honda and Toyota vehicles are pinnacles of reliablilty and rate them accordingly even if they don't deserve it. I'm not going to argue whether or not a Ford is as reliable as a Toyota, but I insist that the true reliability of vehicles is unknown and the reports of CR and others is skewed by the survey participants predispositions.
Juice, you should try one. I'm not an SUV guy but lord that thing can handle and its 6 feels great. Very quick and agile little bugger. Of course I only know one person with a Tribute and hers has had an annoying rattle for a year and a half with no other problems. Fun vehicle to drive though.
A few cases make no difference, it's simply not a big enough sample to matter statistically.
Back in my more idealistic college days I promised never to buy a vehicle that didn't get 20mpg in the city in the EPA cycle. I've kept that so far, and the Tribute's V6 doesn't meet that standard. Long-termers at Edmunds were getting 16-18mpg, so it's not even close.
Tribute's AWD is part-time only. It starts out as FWD and then the rears kick in temporarily when there is slippage. But there is no center differential, so they cannot remain engaged full-time, and you should not use it on dry pavement. Subies are truly full-time; I prefer that setup.
-juice
Their car is a FWD model though, not the useless (for San Diego) AWD.