Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

opusman · August 2003

Thank you VERY much for your considered input on the tire blowout. Unfortunately, we didn't have room to save the tire, but I did take pictures of it afterwards, but they're not developed yet. A "run flat due to puncture" scenario also seems quite possible to me, as the tire tread didn't fly off as in the Wilderness/Explorer situations.

Two factors make me suspect tire failure, though: first, only that one tire had begun to lose a little air in the week prior to the blowout, and second, they're Wilderness tires. I've read some of the other posts regarding the OB Wilderness tires, and it seems a lot have replaced them already due mostly to handling or road noise. As I mentioned, the wear didn't seem to indicate immediate replacement.
Jeff

To Paisan, your post in response to mine was sarcastic and rude and not necessary on this board.

hypov · August 2003

Jeff-
The aging tire is the factor. You've got a set of tires that have been used 50k miles. Those other three surviving tires will have to go too; the replacement tire won't be within 1/4" circumference of the other three. So, don't skim and get your OB a good new set. :-)

-Dave

paisan · August 2003

Not to mention the # of heat cycles that the tires have seen in 50K miles...

-mike

revka · August 2003

Please remember our Town Hall Member Agreement requires that we keep the discussion civil and stay on topic. In addition, if you're experiencing a problem with another member in our discussions, please take the problem off-line. Regardless of the circumstances, you do not have the right to disrupt this discussion with heated remarks, just because you are bothered by another member's behavior. Okay?

Please email me or any of the message board hosts if you think someone is doing something that is in violation of our guidelines, and let us handle the situation. Otherwise, it's best to just completely ignore the messages/posters you do not like. Please note: any further back/forth bickering or off topic personal remarks will be automatically deleted.

And let's get back to the subject of Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons - Problems & Solutions. Thanks!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

idahodoug · August 2003

A bit more insight for you on the tire blowout. Highway speeds place a lot of heat load on a tire - more than any other type of driving save competition. A tire that is low on pressure being driven at highway speeds takes on enormous heat, which can cause complete and catastrophic tire failure in less than an hour. Something to consider since you were aware this particular tire had developed a leak of unknown origin and was not looked at. For instance, it could have been from a nail that was thrown out during the highway speed driving which caused faster air loss and failure.

Secondly, if by coincidence this tire alternately suffered a puncture and went flat, often just the time it takes to get stopped from that speed can destroy the sidewalls and make it look like a catastrophic tire failure instead. I personally experienced this with one of the tire industry's moste reliable and proven tires - the Michelin LTX M/S. Great tire.

Driving 70 on a rural highway, I heard a metalic clang under the truck, followed by an air blast from a tire puncture. I applied enough brakes to stop the truck in minimum distance without locking the flat tire, which took perhaps 200-250 feet. Walking around the vehicle, the RR tire was not only shredded, it was actually smoking! So, a perfectly healthy tire was reduced to scrap in approximately 8 seconds of driving.

So, consider the possibility that you did not have a massive tire disintegration but simply saw the destruction of brief fully deflated running from a puncture or from low (very low) running at highway speeds.

The advice to get 4 new tires is also a good idea as drive train components will suffer if you have mismatched tires/brands.

IdahoDoug

lovermont · August 2003

Hi folks, thanks for the forums here!

I'm a newbie, so be gentle!

I have a '03 Outback which has already seen one clutch replacement from the clutch-chatter problem. It's fixed now, but I am concerned that it's starting to experience the same problem. Has anyone had to have this fixed more than once?

Also, in a fit of scraping off all the inside-window stickers that are plastered all over new rigs, I took one of the AWD stickers off the back window and now I feel all off kilter. Is there any way to get a hold of any more of those stickers? Thanks!

Oh and one more thing! The driver and passanger window rain deflectors (that are no longer made or offered for my car) made aftermarket...any experience with which ones give the best fit? I'm getting drenched!

thanks again

ateixeira · August 2003

More than one clutch replaced? I haven't heard of any cases like that. When did they do yours? I'm wondering if you got the latest revision of that design.

I de-badged mine too, but I didn't keep the stickers, else I'd send you mine.

iSR Subaru might sell OE rain deflectors.

-juice

lovermont · August 2003

thanks juice, I appreciate the lead, I'll check it out.

The orginal clutch was replaced in May this year, at about 17,000 miles. They replaced it under warranty.

Currently, I'm not convinced it's heading south, but I did sense some chatter the last few days, although it was nothing like what was happening before. I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else had this happen more than once?

What can you tell me about getting an improper replacement? Was there a stage when they were fixing it with parts that were still faulty?

thanks again...

ateixeira · August 2003

I'm not sure, some people did get replacements and still felt they weren't entirely smooth. A TSB came out after the fact, so I'm wondering if they got the latest hardware, is all.

Start here:

http://isrperformance.com/

Pam can get stuff from Europe. Those rain covers are not sold in the US, some say because US customers complain too much about the wind noise, but Pam can generally get anything Subaru makes, for a price of course.

-juice

lovermont · August 2003

thanks juice, I appreciate the lead, I'll check it out.

The orginal clutch was replaced in May this year, at about 17,000 miles. They replaced it under warranty.

Currently, I'm not convinced it's heading south, but I did sense some chatter the last few days, although it was nothing like what was happening before. I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else had this happen more than once?

What can you tell me about getting an improper replacement? Was there a stage when they were fixing it with parts that were still faulty?

thanks again...

ffsteve · August 2003

I just witnessed a tire go last night on the freeway.

Camry Solara passed me at speed on the left, perhaps 80-85 mph. 15 seconds later I see blue smoke ahead and the Solara making its way to the shoulder of the freeway. Just as it reached the shoulder the tire came off the left front rim and kind of rolled back into the traffic lanes. When I passed, the Solara was stopped with bare rim on the roadway. LOTS of blue smoke from the tire.

I didn't see the condition of the tire when the car first passed me, but assume that it was low already and the heat and stress from the running was enough to take it off. By the way, the Solara wasn't more than a year old so wouldn't think the tire had more than 15k-20k miles (although could have had 50k for all I know).

Steve

leo2633 · August 2003

I had the clutch replaced in my '01 Forester at 29K miles due to chatter. It had to be replaced again at 57K, for the same problem, this time using the new parts listed in the TSB. So far, so good at 70K.

Len

emmaline · August 2003

I had a clutch replaced at 12,000 or so miles in my 2002 Legacy wagon. I was so
relieved, until the clutch started shuddering shortly thereafter. I’ve just had a
second clutch replacement at 18,000 miles. I hope Subaru finally got it right. I
don’t understand why a clutch is a problem. They’ve been around for awhile,
and why wouldn’t Subaru install a working clutch from the get go? Isn’t Subaru
losing money replacing these clutches? Emma
p.s. I’m hoping the next time I have to go into reverse up (even a small) hill that I
won’t smell my clutch burning horribly...I’ve never experienced that with
clutches in other cars.

ateixeira · August 2003

FWIW, I have 54k miles on my Forester's original clutch, a 1998. It shakes very slightly on a really cold, damp morning, but nothing bad enough for me to take it in.

-juice

opusman · August 2003

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the additional input on the tires. Sorry if I snapped at the sarcastic comment; guess I wasn't feeling too good already about not replacing the tires before we left.
Regarding the air loss, the loss was only a single fill of a couple of psi, not anything that would make me suspect any kind of a real leak, unless I had seen it again. As I said, in hindsight (20/20) the air loss should have been an indication. I know the mileage was high, but I've run many tires over 60K with plenty of tread left and the tires in relatively good shape, and decided to replace the tires mostly because of handling in rain. In retrospect, the problem was likely a combination of a leak, the tire age, and the Oklahoma heat.
Idahodoug and ffsteve, thanks for your anecdotes about the tire shreddings. That is the most convincing information yet that it was probably just a flat that shredded.
And finally, yes I immediately had all 4 tires replaced!
Jeff

opusman · August 2003

I had the clutch replacement done on my '00 OB about 6 months and ~8000 miles ago, and have had no chatter. The rest of the clutching action isn't as smooth as it was before (sometimes grinds downshifting), but it may just need some adjustment at this point.
Jeff

sebberry · August 2003

...or anybody else..

I am at 20,000 Kms on my 2003 Outback LL Bean and am also on my third set of front rotors. The first were replaced at around 3,000 Kms, and just had them replaced again at 18,000Kms. When braking, I notice a slight twitching in the steering wheel and a very apparant vibration throughout the car. The dealer asked me if there were any hills around, and if I rode on the brakes a lot. While there are some short hills, (done at 50Km/hr) I do a fair bit of short distance highway driving. I think that I am fairly careful with the brakes, and did not have any problems with with my old Legacy.

Does any body have a recommendation for some heavier duty rotors for the car? I looked on Brembo's site, but didn't really see anything that would work on mine.

Any ideas would be great,

Thanks

designman · August 2003

The rear bumper cover on my 02 Outback was installed a little too high. Accordingly, the lower left corner of the hatch was chafing against it, wearing the paint off, then rusting the edge.

After wrangling with dealer service I had to call Subaru brass for resolution. Subaru was very responsive,,, then the dealer snapped to it. I think I could have gotten a brand new hatch but didn't want to pursue it unless it was factory painted which was problematic with time, interfering with my plans to sell the car for a new one. Anyway, I opted for the auto body repair which turned out good.

Would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem. If not, I would check your hatches where it meets the rear bumper cover and make sure there is clearance. If not, you will indeed be getting rust.

contour2 · August 2003

Hello,
I wanted to Thank all who had ideas regarding my 2002 Legacy. Juice and dhmccabe, I very much appreciate your feedback. I will share the results when I get the car back from the shop.

Joseph

ateixeira · September 2003

2003 Bean? Hmm, those already have the bigger rotors. I can't imagine it's their design. Strange.

Welcome, Joseph, keep us posted.

designman: interesting. The steel is galvanized, but the rubbing must have worn off even the zinc coating they apply to the sheet metal. Thanks for the heads up.

-juice

blackbean · September 2003

Oh yes, my favorite topic. My '02 Bean has gone through a full set of rotors. I now have 17,000 miles and I still get an occasional (but not always!) pulsation when braking.

I tried to get Brembo's for the front, but they don't make the larger size for the Bean yet. I think the OE rotors are inferior in composition (I don't know lots about metalurgy or physics, but I do know that more warp resistant materials and manufacturing processes are available and cost more money, so Subaru may have tried to save a few bucks in the rotor dept.). As soon as someone makes a good replacemnt rotor (not drilled or slotted), I will be happy to try them out. You can see my previous post #1455 (copy below) and the responses for some more background.

Matt

#1455 of 1855 Aftermarket rotors for '02 OB - Suggestions? by blackbean May 13, 2003 (2:41 pm)
I am at 12K with my '02 LLBean OB and after having the dealer replace (not turn) the rotors at 1K, I feel the pulsing and vibration returning. I would obviously like Subaru to build a better rotor, but this is driving me crazy! I may just buy aftermarket products if a good (read "warp resistant") aftermarket rotor exists.
I see Tire rack offers EBC grooved sport rotors and greenstuff pads - total parts would be $484.

What do people reccomned for street use (not rally or race - but a slight improvement in overall performance without any other mods is fine).
Suggestions??? Expereinces? Prices? Sources?
Thanks!
Matt

ateixeira · September 2003

To be honest, to accomplish that I'd just use the stock rotors with a set of Hawk pads.

FWIW, C&D did a full brake system test on the WRX, I'm sure it's very similar (perhaps even the same). They tested several kits.

Most kits required warming up, the Hawk pads with stock rotors performed well from the get-go. I think for most people that's ideal.

-juice

intrigue2 · September 2003

I have 61000 miles on my 2000 GT sedan, and had the rotors replaced about 2 months ago. One month ago I had all 4 tires replaced with ContiExtremes, at Mavis Tire. I've noticed a vibration when I brake from high speed, called the dealer and he said it could be one of 2 things...I drove thru water when the wheels were hot and the rotors warped, or the tires were not torqued correctly as the subie folks use a special stick for this.

Is this for real, I find their reasons profoundly absurd, but would like to get the opinions of other owners on this.Thanks.

ateixeira · September 2003

Air tools do make use of torque sticks to get wheel torque correct (about 70 ft-lbs FWIW).

I have seen many bolts grossly overtightened, and it can indeed mess up your brakes.

I do most of the work myself, but if I know someone else tightened the lugs, I re-torque them manually, every time, no exceptions.

-juice

nygreg · September 2003

Which Mavis tire store did you go to?? I recently had the one in Mahopac install Michelins on my Minivan. Also, which dealer do you use?? Just curious - we might be neighbors.

Greg

haemon · September 2003

I am a new Subaru owner ('01, Legacy GT Limited Sedan). I am hearing wind noise coming from the driver's side front window. Has anyone else experienced that? If so, how did you correct it? Do you think a wind deflector would correct the problem?

gtlimitedguy · September 2003

I have had this same problem on my '02 GT Limited three times in 29K. Each time it goes back to the dealer they 'adjust the tweeter kit trim' and that fixes it for a while. It is doing it again, and I am going to insist on a 'rebuild' of the front door before my warranty expires. I have found that the noise goes away if you open the window slightly and then close it. However, you have to do this every time you open and close the door. This is quite annoying in a one-year-old 27K car...but at least it isn't major. Still...I want it fixed. Check with your dealer. Hopefully they will be able to fix it under warranty.

ateixeira · September 2003

What to look for?

Well, the '01 is pretty well sorted out. You don't have the wheel bearing issue from earlier Foresters and Imprezas. The Phase II is less prone to any kind of leaks (seals/gaskets), too.

Just keep her maintained properly, stick with us, and if she starts sounding/acting strange let us know and we'll try to help trouble shoot it.

-juice

originalbitman · September 2003

You should only have to anticipate a lot of enjoyable miles.

bit

blackbean · September 2003

Yup - the window doesn't seal well at the corner by the tweeter on my '02 Bean. It is really an enginnering flaw - not a "defect" with any particualr car, as I have seen 5 other Beans & limiteds with the same gap. The wind noise only noticeable above 60 mph,

My "solution" has been to stick a metal pen (a Cross) between the window still and the upper frame (parallel to the trailing vertical edge of the tweeter kit) - it puts just enough pressure on the tweeter trim kit/seal to eliminate the gap and the wind noise. I only do this on long highway trips, as the pen falls out when you slam the door. If they re-engineer the tweeter kit/seal to be more rigid, then I think that would solve the probem.
Any other, more premanent solutions being used out there?
Matt

otis123 · September 2003

My 2001 Bean doesn't have that problem - just the general muted wind noise of the large mirrors... Hope Subaru engineers are spending time in the wind tunnel designing a quieter 2005 mirror... N.America market loves quiet...

Ralph

subaru_team · September 2003

for things like this to be corrected/improved, please send an e-mail to SUBURU.COM so that your opinions are communicated. We've been very successful in getting improvements based on feedback from customers.

Thanks

Patti

canyuntrash · September 2003

I continue to read about the rotor warping issue, and I continue to have problems with mine on my 03 Bean. Dealer has re surfaced several times, finally replacing aft units. When I asked why they were replaced, service writer whispered "because they're defective". Yeah, I know that, and I never bought all the prior b.s. I was given about my driving style, puddles, etc.
Having bought two other Subies new ('86 and '98) I never had these problems. But now, with all the run around, the idea of trading for an '05 OB is being replaced with the thought of Volvo XC.
Has anyone gotten any satisfaction out of SOA on this issue? Between this and the driver side wind whistle, I'm a tad fed up.
And on a totally different issue. does anyone know how to calibrate the on board thermometer? My outside temp reads about 4 degrees high...
Thanks in advance for input

subaru_team · September 2003

I found an old case of yours in our system, but not one about this issue. Could you please call 1-800-SUBARU3 and get a case started about this concern? Please let the Rep. know that I'd like to see the case file.

Hopefully, we'll get you some answers. Sorry about the repeat problems.

Thanks!

Patti

otis123 · September 2003

I have a 2001 Bean w/ 47K miles. The car has been flawless (knock on plastic wood) except for the front rotors.

Subaru turned the front rotors at 10K, then replaced the front rotors AND front pads at 22K. Dealer said the rotors were defective w/ "hot spots" - defective areas in the rotor.

They've been fine ever since...

Ralph

otis123 · September 2003

Will do. I should have volunteered for a 2005 redesign focus group (if one existed). Would have liked becoming involved in refining the Bean via feedback. Oh well...

Ralph

subaru_team · September 2003

with Product Planning. We do provide the information that is posted here, so it is a way to get information to the right people. I know that at least 8 things suggested here at Edmunds were incorporated into the re-design of the Forester. So, this counts!

Patti

otis123 · September 2003

I've been making suggestions over the past 2.5 years, so hopefully they've been passed along...

[one more time] :-)

2005 H6 Outback...

side curtain head bags
driver seat memory - at least 2 settings (gets tiring going back and forth with wife's setting)
monotone paint (black!)
wider body/track
more noise insulation (my 92 Camry was quieter than my Bean)
mechanically - less understeer (unless 2003 strut/shock redesign took care of that)

There. That'll help keep the Outback's niche secure...

:-)

Ralph

hypov · September 2003

Ralph-
if you're going to ask for 2 driver seat memory, better include on your list that a 2 driver ECU memory be incorporated to it

-Dave

p/s: you shouls be posting your want list in the "Suggestion" thread.

ateixeira · September 2003

Also check out the Suggestions thread, folks.

-juice

gtlimitedguy · September 2003

I am so impressed that SOA actually has someone monitor this place to get feedback. If only the would do focus groups...I had emailed them a couple of months ago to see if they did such a thing. Being a business consultant...I always tell my clients that focus groups are one of the best sources of feedback to allow for improvements.

And to blackbean...you can use a Cross pen in your Bean. I will have to try a plain old Bic in my GT Ltd! LOL I guess if you can swing the H6 3.0 you have some extra Cross' laying around. Mine have to stay at my desk!!! LOL J/K

mikenk · September 2003

About a year ago, a number of us reported some coolant loss from the reservoir on the H6 outback. It generated lots of discussion and speculation. Patti actually opened a case file for me, which resulted in more leak testing on my car. The SOA rep and I agreed to just let it fall and see where it stabiliized. That was a year ago, and it seemed to have stabilized at about the low point. The general consensus was that the small overflow tank was not quite sufficient for the H6.

I rechecked a few days ago and it has finally dropped slightly below the low. I checked my WRX and it was also slightly below low. I added a half pint to each which took it halfway to full. Since I live in Texas (HOT,HOT,HOT), my new conclusion that the loss is from evaporation coupled with the small coolant tank. It doesn't bother me anymore about an engine problem, but I do remain curious whether others, particularly in hot climates, have to ever add coolant. I dunno - maybe I just have a thirsty mouse in my garage with a straw.

BTW, no problems with either car. Wife loves VDC; I love WRX; I also love that wife doesn't balk when we take the WRX.

Mike

edusenbury · September 2003

Any advice how to troubleshoot a 98 outback whose automatic transmission occasionally gets stuck in first gear? Had the transmission serviced (flushed, fluid and filter replaced), problem persists. It only has 65,000 miles on it! This on top of having to replace a crank shaft seal (warranty), timing belt and tensioner, both front bearings (both no longer covered by warranty)....what next??? Subaru dealer will not attempt to diagnose it, just replace it for $2800. Only found one posting suggesting a bad speed sensor on this discussion.

Beyond frustrated.

ray_c · September 2003

Hi,

Anyone try this http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/hesitation.htm for their Subaru hesitation problem

idahodoug · September 2003

Ed,

That's a good sign of an incompetent Service Department when they won't diagnose. Replacing is the easy way out and they are spending your money instead of spending THEIR money on training and good techs.

My advice is to ask here on the list if there is a good dealer in your area, or find a good independent shop. Perhaps a national transmission shop chain would also be able to do it.

My feeling as a mechanically inclined person is that a sensor (speed would be a good guess) is not working properly either because it was disturbed by prior engine work (!), or a random failure. If it were a mechanical problem requiring total replacement, it would not be intermittent. Once an auto loses gears physically they don't come back and work fine for a while. Even a half wit mechanic would know this.

IdahoDoug

jlemole · September 2003

I just had my H4 in a month ago because I was noticing slight coolant loss. It was pressure tested with no problems. There's no sign of a leak, and I don't smell coolant in the oil, or see oil in the coolant. I checked yesterday, and the level is a little low again. I'm in New Jersey, and I've run the a/c all summer, so maybe you're right about the evaporation.

Jon

gvmelbrty · September 2003

For those of you who suspect coolant evaporation from the overflow tank caused by excess heat transfer/gain to the tank itself, have you considered experimenting with insulating the tank to minimize this effect?

There are many products that you could use for this purpose, here's one: "Reflect-A-Cool" from Thermal Tuning Products.

blackbean · September 2003

Haha - I only had the Cross pen lying around because it was given to me - I actually don't like them - much too skinny! But the Cross pen fit perfectly in the door by the tweeter, didn't have any sharp parts to threaten the integrity of the seal and it was metal so it wouldn't break (the plastic pen might). Next time I bring it in to the dealer I will ask them to try and adjust the tweeter kit or window to seal better.

blackbean · September 2003

Anyone have any expereince with door dent removal tools like the "Pops-a-dent" tool seen on tv? I have a quater sized door ding (no paint loss) on my door and think that the pops-a-dent thingy - if it works! - would be a LOT cheaper than getting a dentless pro to take out deing.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Matt

leo2633 · September 2003

I remember reading about this some time ago. You warm up the area with a hair dryer, then put a small piece of dry ice on the dent. This supposedly causes the dent to pop out with no paint damage. I never tried it, but it sounds like it would work. It might be worth a try. HTH.

Len

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles