Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

fibber2 · September 2003

Sounds like a problem I had with my old Ford truck. If you have someone in another car observe, it is likely that a tire is bouncing / skipping. It is caused by a slightly out of round tire that develops a rythm at a certain speed and actually leaves the road surface. Shocks (the inserts in your struts) are supposed to keep such rapid up-&-down actions from taking place, but as they wear, their ability to control this decreases. You need to have someone watch and note which tire is doing it.

Steve

rob999 · September 2003

That was the exact thing that happened in MY old Ford truck, too. I could not replicate the problem, but it usually happened when a combination of road bumps, speed and tire unbalance caused the bouncing. Replaced tires and the problem went away.

ateixeira · September 2003

Michael: does it help if you open/close the window? The dealer can adjust the rake angle of the window, in fact some in the Crew have managed that themselves.

Jim: I'd start with the tires, maybe rotate and balance them, check the pressures and for flat spots.

-juice

fibber2 · September 2003

I have long suspected that worn shocks and the specifics of suspension geometry play a role in the propensity for tire bounce. Probably the very long lower control arm of the twin I-beam used on older F series trucks promotes this. But it sounds like Philip's problem as well.

Steve

9620197 · September 2003

The wind noise I get is on the driver door of my outback. It sounds like it is the back edge of the window. I find if I tap the power window button and fractionally lower the window, it cuts down dramatically on the wind noise. If you have problems you might try it. I am also going to try to get the dealer to replace the seals or realign the window to cut down on the noise.

toyo_z · September 2003

ateixeira : is there any good site online that explains how to adjust the windows? My Legacy is long out of warranty, and I dread the cost of going to the dealer to have this done.

I -really- hope subaru has put a great deal extra engineering time on the '05 into fixing these wind noise problems. Subarus are moving into a competitive space where that kind of ruckus just isn't acceptable :-)

fibber2 · October 2003

I am 95% sure that Craig Hunter posted a beautiful photo spread on door panel removal and glass angle adjustment sometime mid last year, but I cannot find the posting. I copied the presentation into PowerPoint, but neglected to record the author.

If Juice cannot find the link to the original, maybe I can get it to you.

Steve

ateixeira · October 2003

Yeah, check the Legacy/Outback thread, do a search for "window track", something like that. He described it in detail, IIRC.

-juice

fibber2 · October 2003

Got it for you. It was from Craig:

http://www.members.cox.net/craig.hunter/window/

I love these boards!!!

Steve

ateixeira · October 2003

Kudos to chunter for documenting them nicely like that.

-juice

c_hunter · October 2003

Glad those pics have been useful!

A lot of wind noise seems to come from the front corner of the front windows, in the "gusset" area near the mirror. You can try pushing on the glass (outward) and the rubber in that area and see if it affects the noise. If so, the gusset can be adjusted just like the glass. I did this on my wife's Forester a couple of weeks ago, and have yet to post the pics. Since it may be useful, I'll do it this weekend! it made a night and day difference in her car -- the wind noise had been driving her crazy, which in turn had a similar effect on me....

Bottom line -- the frameless windows are very complicated, but Subaru built a lot of adjustment in. You can tell these have evolved through several generations. I was very impressed by the engineering design.

Craig

tpham6 · October 2003

Hello:
I just got my OB H6-3.0 wagon last weekend. I just found out that there're a few paint spots that doesn't matched the rest of the car color(Silver Stone). The spots are in the 1/4" diameter and its appearance is darker and lack the metallic look.
As a first time OB owner, please give me some advice and recommendations on how to address this problem.

This's definitely a defects in material/workmanship.
Regards,
Tom P.

ateixeira · October 2003

See my suggestions in 2 other topics.

-juice

fibber2 · October 2003

When I did my first wash/wax job on my then new '02 OBW, I noticed a lot of Titanium speckes on top of the Timberline Green on the rear door / quarter panel region of the passengers side. Unfortunately, they are under the clearcoat, so short of major surgery, they are there to stay. At first I was rather upset, but soon realized that I was probably the only one who will ever notice this manufacturing defect. I strongly suggest, that unless they are very noticeable, that you try and ignore them. I have yet to see a repaint job that would be easier on the eyes than the original defect.

Steve

tpham6 · October 2003

Hello Juice and Steve:
Well, I took my car back to the dealer and they told me that the spots are paint blemishes...They offer to have the body/paint shop to resurface and repaint them. The spot the door is very noticeable.
The car only has 250miles. Is the dealer handling
this right?
Cheers,
Tom P

bkaiser1 · October 2003

I had my 01 Outback entirely repainted last year (under warranty) due to manufacturing defects in the paint process that was causing the paint to "craze" (looks like tiny cracks in the finish). Having that car repainted was the worst mistake I ever made.

The car was in the shop for 4 weeks to get stripped and repainted, then I made four more trips to the body shop after getting the car back to have them try and fix things that were wrong -- everything from horrible wind noise to trim and mirrors falling off. The windows never rolled up the same way again, and the car rattled horribly.

The Subaru dealership's body shop was always very understanding and acknowledged the reassembly problems they had with the car, but they never could get the car right. I ended up trading the car in (for a WRX) six months later because I couldn't stand driving around in a car that squeeked and rattled the way my OB did after the body shop got done with it.

Unless the defects are really bad, I would strongly caution against having elective body work done on a new car...it may never be the same.

Brian

tpham6 · October 2003

Hi Brian:
Boy, I am really worried now...I gotta find out what legal options are avail. to resolved this problem.
I guess I am stuck with this car and accept the fact that it was a bad one.
The service manager explained to me that they won't need to pull the hood and the door off for the paint jobs. I have the weekend to think it over before the appointment for Monday.
One unfortunate OB owner.
Tom

c_hunter · October 2003

Before you do anything, go buy a clay bar kit and run it across the spots. See if that makes any difference. It could be as simple as a stain in the clearcoat, and the clay bar should take it out. Worth a shot. Clay bar kits are about $15.

Also, if they are able to airbrush just the spots, you may be OK. I have seen some amazing spot repairs that are hard or impossible to detect.

Good luck!

Craig

c_hunter · October 2003

Here are details on the gusset replacement and adjustment on my wife's Forester. The Legacy/Outback is setup the same way.

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/gusset/

Craig

sebberry · October 2003

Hi everybody,

A few months after I got my Outback, I noticed that the windshield washer fluid was starting to get more of the roof of the car than the windshield.

I took it to the dealer to have them replaced, and it corrected some of the problem.

I questioned it again and they said that it is just the way it is.

Today in my garage, I ran the washer and observed. It missed most of the lower portion of the windshield, while covering the roof of the car with fluid. Even the wall behind the car had washer fluid on it.

Is there anything I can do to convince the dealer this isn't right and have them replaced with ones that will hit only the windshield? I do not particularly want washer fluid sitting on the paint, nor do I want to hit the car behind me.

Another one of those small (yet rare) things that makes this great car seem cheap.

Any ideas would be great,

Thanks

grahampeters · October 2003

G'day

The washer nozzles have a ball type outlet in them that can be adjuted by putting a fine needle in them and wiggling a bit. They should be hitting the screen toward the top so that the water deflects ontpo the screen as it is being used at speed. However, it should not be going over the top. Typically for each side there are two nozzles and one should be aimed a bit lowerr and to one side of the other.

One possible problem is small bits of gunk in the washer bottle. These can be sucked up andclog the nozzle. It loooks daft but you can usually blow this back by leaning over the washer nozzle and blowing really hard. It helps if you have Satchmo lips! There is also some points where you can separate the tubing and avoid blowing all the way back to the washer bottle. Repeat a few times to really persuade the neighbours you've gone mad.

Flushing the washer bottle once in a while is a good idea. It get rid of the cruud that inevitably builds up over time.

Cheers

Graham

jlemole · October 2003

Ditto Graham. You should be able to adjust the ball with a pin. If the adjustment doesn't work, just use very quick repeated taps of the washer button. This prevents the pump from getting to full power and washing your roof instead of your windshield.

Jon

c_hunter · October 2003

On the three Subarus I have, there does not seem to be an adjustment -- it's just a single rectangular orifice molded into each plastic washer "pod" on the hood. Are you saying there is a ball inside that, because I can't see one? Some of my past cars have had a little stainless ball that you can position, but not these newer Subarus.

Craig

b7857 · October 2003

I own a 2003 Outback and have had problems with the transmission when driving speeds between 35-40mph. I have had to 2 dealers and they found that the fault codes were okay for both the engine and transmission. the last dealer did drvie it for 100 miles and did get the transmission to act up...It surges, shutters, hesitates, call it what you want....The car now has 15000 miles on it. Anyone else having this problem.?

nowakj66 · October 2003

Any ideas for this situation?

On occasion, less than a minute after starting the cold engine (it never happens when it's warm), the engine is slow to respond to the gas pedal. By slow to respond I mean that I press on the gas pedal, but the engine doesn't respond. There is no acceleration sound, and the car feels like it is going forward (if it *is* going forward) solely due to the gas it was given when it was started -- almost like it's coasting on fumes. Sometimes it "stutters" like this even when I've floored the gas, so I know it's not a case of me having a feather touch on the gas. Today it felt like it was actually going to stall. The stutter lasts for a couple of seconds, then the engine responds, and the problem is gone again. The problem is intermittent. The outside temperature doesn't seem to matter. It's always happened when I've changed to drive after reversing out of a parking position, but that might be because I almost always have to reverse out of parking. I should note that the problem doesn't seem to happen when I'm back up, but after I change gears to go forward.

c_hunter · October 2003

I notice the same thing on my LL Bean every once and a while (probably once every 2-3 months). It only happens after I start the engine first thing in the morning. It's so infrequent, I have not worried about it.

Definitely seems fuel related to me, but I have not done much in the way of investigating the problem. I did replace my fuel filter recently for the 30,000 mile service, so 2-3 months from now, maybe I can comment if that was the problem.

Craig

sebberry · October 2003

When they were replaced, the dealer mentioned that they used to be adjustable, but not the new ones.

I did take it upon myself to try with a little pin to see if they would move, but no luck.

Graham, if you are feeling generous, maybe you could send me a couple of the Australian ones

Thanks

nowakj66 · October 2003

Thanks! Lets hope it is something simple like the fuel filter.

I do notice that when starting you have to let the fuel pump do a little dance first before turning the key. Perhaps indicative of under-engineered fuel system on the Bean?

tfoshbone · October 2003

I'm looking to upgrade my stereo in 99 obw. Does anyone know if the factory high-end (80 watts) unit has an external amp. If so any idea where?

c_hunter · October 2003

I have noticed that all fuel injected cars start easier if you let the pump pressurize the system first. Whenever I remember, I let the pump run 1-2 sec before cranking the engine over.

Craig

ohsubie · October 2003

My 2001 OB seat heater switch has a burned out white lamp. The dealer indicated its a new switch at $30 to fix the problem. Has any one replaced just the lamp and if so what is the P/N for the lamp. Or any one with a bad switch and a good lamp? If I knew the P?N I might be able to find one at an electronics supply house. I have 60K mile and the only problems were front brakes (pads and rotors) at 47K and new Nokian tires. OH and a CV joint repack under warranty at 56K. I just got 28.7 MPG from the last tank on the interstate.
Has any one had any problems with the samll galvanized metal bracket on the drives side near the strut rusting? It holds two emission items. Thanks Mike

27k · October 2003

My 02 Bean has 25,460 miles. I have had the front rotors resurfaced twice, then replaced the front rotors and brakes, and now 4K miles after replacing front rotor and brakes---I again had to have the front rotors and brakes resurfaced.

Today I filed a complaint with NHTSA and I encourage others to do the same. WWW.nhtsa.dot.gov. If enough compliants are received an investigation may be conducted.

In the mean time, I would appreciate feedback on what aftermarket rotors to buy.

blawson2 · October 2003

We have a 2001 Outback LL Bean wagon that we bought used a few months ago. There is still warrenty left on the vehicle so we want to fix the leak as soon as we can. The only problem we are having with the vehicle is a leak from the roof area in the rear of the wagon after a heavy rain. It has happened a few times now. The water pours into the rear of the wagon through 4 openings -- the roof-mounted seatbelt area and the three plastic roof-mounted brackets. It happens when we are breaking as we transition from reverse to drive when backing out of the driveway. It does not leak at any other time.

We tried to make it leak using the garden hose and then backing up, but we could not duplicate it. The dealer also looked at it and could not duplicate it or find anything that looked like it needed attention.

Has anyone else had this problem? Better yet, any recommendations on what needs to be fixed?

Thanks,

Barry

nygreg · October 2003

I would check the gasket around the roof rack mounting holes.

Greg

9620197 · October 2003

As for the water leakage, a definitely possibility is the sunroof. I have known many people with leaky sunroofs, and the water can flow back into the headliner.

As for the transmission after backing up, I find if I wait for 1-2 seconds it does not have that no power/going to stall feeling. Seems to be slow to shift from reverse to 1st.

c_hunter · October 2003

If you have a sunroof/moonroof, make sure the drain lines are not plugged. If they are, it could definitely create other problems.

That said, I don't exactly know where the drain lines are on Outbacks. Anybody else know?

Craig

ateixeira · October 2003

For the body shop, I would ask for references and talk to previous customers. All work is not the same. Ask if you can see some of their work. The shop that worked on my Forester did a great job, they're in Kensington, MD.

For that tranny: first, make sure to document the issue, 800-SUBARU3. Did the dealer try flushing the fluid? I also suspect the ECU may be at fault, you could reset it to see.

External amp? I don't think so, not unless you have a subwoofer/amp under the seat.

-juice

mhinkson2 · October 2003

MSG #1971 I have a LL Bean OB 03 and I too had my brakes warp at only 7000 miles. They resurfaced them and it's time to bring them in again at 10,000 miles. Also on both my 1997 and the 2003 vehicle I continue to have unexpected acceleration. Just yesterday when I turned on the 03 OB and backed it up in the parking lot, I put it into drive and without touching the gas pedal the car took off, shifted into second on it's own and was at 25 mph before I had to hit the brake pedal for a stop sign. The 97 tried to take off on it's own at a stop sign while my son was driving it. The 3rd problem in both cars is the wind coming through the driver's side door/window. I've had teh dealer adjust it several times but it never works. Apparently the rubber seal is not doing the job. Anyone else experiencing one of these problems?

paisan · October 2003

I find it odd, that 2 of your cars almost 4 model years apart both have acceleration problems? That is weird, maybe you live in area 52 or something?

-mike

ateixeira · October 2003

Hang on a sec, there is a brake interlock on the shifter, you can't get into drive without having your foot on the brake. We can thank the Audi controversy for that.

There's no way the engine can outpower the brakes, so just make sure you don't let off the brakes until the engine is fully in gear.

I would reset the ECU if your idle speed is that high or fluctuates that much. Disconnect the negative battery terminal, wait 20 minutes, reconnect, idle until warm. Have your keyless ready to lock/unlock and turn off any alarms.

-juice

mhinkson2 · October 2003

Thanks for the information on clearing the ECU. I took the 97 OB to the dealer yesterday and the mechanic said he cleared the memory (ECU?) and also told me I could replace it for the tune of $660. What's really puzzling me is the problem with the rotors warping. I bought a 2001 Toyota Tundra Truck which had the same problem. I was 1 of 10 trucks in the area that kept having to replace the brakes, calipers, rotors, ect. Toyota had a service bulletin out so there wasn't a problem until the warranty ran out, then it was going to be my tab at the tune of $300+. In another talk room for tundras many owners were having the same problem and getting rid of their trucks. I was told that all trucks had problems with brakes because of their heavy weight/V8 engines. So I traded it in for the 03 LL Bean OB and now I have the same problem again. And I see many other OB owners are having the problems as well. But the OB weighs considerably less than the truck, so what's the excuse. I am getting highly discouraged and feel that the 03 OB won't have much of a future in this family either. BMW's and Honda's are real popular around here and are starting to look pretty good. I'm real disappointed that Subaru has not stepped up to the plate and done a recall or at least a service bulletin on this problem (or the other problems like wind noise, hesitation/ acceleration). At least Toyota replaced my brake system, the dealer here just keeps resurfacing and putting off the situation.

ateixeira · October 2003

Call 800-SUBARU3 and ask them to open a case number. Then ask them to replace the rotors, given they're not lasting long enough for practical ownership.

Every new vehicle has teething issues, the Honda Element for instance is having windshield issues, they get stress cracks. BMWs are not known for their reliability at all.

-juice

lovermont · October 2003

Hi folks...
Just reviewing people's posts and have seen some that have had to deal with clutch chatter on a continuing basis. I had mine replaced at about 17,000 and it's been ok since then. I've seen mention of a TSB concerning the parts that are to be used for replacement, but I can't seem to find it? Also, since I am about to clear my warranty period, is this clutch issue something that will become my responsibility financially after that (if it's a manufac. defect?)

Rain guards: I can't believe I'm the only one seeking some solution to the rain that falls in the drivers window with even the slightest of opening. No matter what the season, I often ride with my windows cracked or down, as this helps my vision whether I'm scanning the woods for animals, picture ops, bigfoot, etc. I also like to keep them open for fresh air, and in case something might be burning in my car. Like incense.

To my knowledge, there are no rain guards offered for my '03 Outback, and I wondered what others may have done to attack this need?

thanks

ateixeira · October 2003

Keep the windows closed? ;-)

But seriously, the Forester has rain gutters that run along the roof to the edges, so it's not much of a problem for me.

-juice

lovermont · October 2003

But I don't have a Forrester!

And although I'm tempted to go check one out because they gave the sucker the power of turbo, I cannot afford a switch right now. But I still want my car to stay dry!

Doesn't anyone else experience this? I mean, rain's no big deal on me, but as it drips into the car, and possibly into the window buttons, or in between door panels, then I stat to worry about further complications.

Subaru designers should take into account, more so, the needs of folks who want to be able to drive with the windows down (cracked) in rain or snow and not get soaked. Riding with open windows in inclement weather may not make sense to flatlanders, but to people who have Subies b/c the environment demands it, it's a necessity!

Any info on specific parts that are supposed to be used for the clutch replacement problem?

thanks again

ateixeira · October 2003

I think they have them available in other markets, either Japan or Australia. I've seen them for other models, but not yours specifically.

As for the Clutch, use part number 32098AA020, as per TSB 03-51-02R, and that the new clutch kit includes a new flywheel, clutch kit, cover, and bolts.

-juice

originalbitman · October 2003

It bugs the crap out of me too. I spent some time trying to find the rain guards you are talking about. No luck. They are available in Europe but I never got a response to the emails I sent to several dealers.

bit

c_hunter · October 2003

My understanding is that as long as the clutch is replaced with the revised parts, the problem should not recurr under normal use. I believe the clutch material was the main problem, and it has been changed. My 03 WRX came with the new parts, and has been just fine.

I had warped rotors on my 00 base Outback and my 02 LL Bean. In both cases, the rotors were machined and were fine thereafter.

Recurring warped rotors is likely due to wheels being over-torqued, and this is very common. Happened on two of my Hondas when the dealer service depratment overtorqued the wheels (*way* over torqued, I could barely get the lugs loose). It is worth asking them to hand-torque your wheels, and double check if needed. Most places whale on the lugs with an impact wrench, and this can easily add up to 150-200 ft-lbs of torque (way over the recommended 60-80 for most cars with aluminim wheels) and certainly uneven torque. When the rotors heat up, uneven pressure from the lugs can lead to warpage.

Craig

ateixeira · October 2003

70 for any Subie alloy works.

Craig's right, I recall Mercedes applies about 120 ft-lbs for the ML class, that'll warp rotors in a heartbeat.

-juice

snowbelter · October 2003

I'm pleased that Subaru is surveying us about our cars, dealers, and SOA. In short, our cars are "thumbs up", SOA stands up for its customers, and our dealer who sports an award on the wall as a SOA "Dealer of Distinction" needs some work. Had the recall done with a less than two hour wait and the car returned with no overspray as it was washed and (waxed?).This was very good. But their was an overcharge on the bill for maintenance, something that has been happening lately, and which they fixed after discussion. In addition they "forgot" to deduct the discount coupon they sent me from my bill. They have "forgotten" 4 out of the last five visits. We've had a number of foreign nameplates over the years, but Subaru dealers (this one at least) take the prize for being the most difficult to work with. It seems to me that Subaru is going to have a tough time cracking the higher end market until their dealers get some "religion" when it comes to customer service. Note to Idaho Doug. I haven't forgotten your admonition to try another dealer. I envy all of you who live near an honest reliable Subaru dealer and/or can do the work yourself because the car is very good.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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