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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just don't do warp speeds. My guess is the coil as well.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Mike,

    I thought you had said if the CEL is blinking that I should not drive the car.

    Mark
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is it still blinking now? Or did it stop? So long as it's not blinking while you are driving you should be fine. Also if you drive it gently it should be ok.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    IIRC, it is a one shift job for the well experienced tech.

    The dealership GM where I had mine done told me that SoA will not usually authorize the other head be pulled unless there is a clear indication of leakage. I was told by the tech that 90%+ of the cases involve just cyl #4 (drivers firewall on our cars). An independent shop owner nearby (who in a previous life worked for Subi NY-NJ) said the same thing.

    Steve
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    How are the Nokians under dry/rain driving conditions? I have a '96 OBW and am rearching what to replace the Michelin XW4s with when the time comes.
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    Doug:

    Did you notice improved shifting in the Legacy after the tranny fluid change, or was just the binding problem improved?

    I don't have much of a binding problem (although I have noticed it a little) but it seems like my 4EAT's shifts are getting a little harsher. They've never been very smooth, but upshifts 1-2 and 2-3 seem pretty hard, sometimes it feels as if the car got bumped from behind.

    I'm thinking it's time to change the fluid. Any particular brand you recommend?

    utahsteve
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    More info for those that posted questions about Phase 1 2.5l head gasket problems in the past few days here:

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vze730qe/Head_gasket_replacement.html

    And here:
    http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html

    Someone asked about the dealership price of $2200. That's slightly high, but not unheard of. Independent shops are usually subsantially cheaper. Some people DIY for very little cost and a lot of labor.

    Sorry to hear about the problems. Hope mine fares better.

    utahsteve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I go with Redline High Temp ATF fluid. No leaks on a 155K mile 4EAT and no leak on my 100K 4EAT either both running the Redline stuff now.

    -mike
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Took the OBW ('98) in for the remains of the 60K mi. check. Asked them to also check the front of the engine as I was detecting oil occasional drops of oil on the garage floor. Well, the 'O' ring is leaking and they say the oil pump is leaking. It will take 3+ hours and $600 with parts. They will also replace the camshaft drive belt.

    Geeze, glad I had already done the front & rear diffs and transmission (5 spd), and the spark plugs before it got cold. The air filter is an K&N. This has a few more miles to go before it gets cleaned.

    The dealer will also replace the coolant, drive belts, and gas line filter. Geeze, I may have to find work to pay this off. Now, if it would only get warm again (-9 this morning, -25+ wind chill). Ah, marvelous Minnesota in January

    MNSteve
  • squeezedlemonsqueezedlemon Member Posts: 18
    Hello. I'm looking for a recommendation for tires to replace my 1996 Legacy Outback 2.5 L factory original Michelin XW4's. I'm preparing to relocate to Portland, Oregon and travel to Alaska this May so I guess I will need a tire that has good wet and dry traction and a smoother ride with reduced road noise. I will be spending limited time on gravel roads and snow. I am hoping to spend in the neighborhood of $60 or less per tire. Any good experiences with "non-original equipment" touring all-season tires? Any opinions on the utility of "Road Hazard" options?

    Regards,

    Matt
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Steve,

    I have a '97 w/ 42k on it, and hers is a '96 with 52k on it. Both bulletproof 2.2 Legacies. Ironically, hers shifted more smoothly when I drove it to evaluate the shudder - under all conditions including full throttle upshifts and downshifts. Ironic because mine has had the tranny fluid changed twice, is newer and has less miles.

    I did not drive it long enough to note any change in shifting behavior before our Christmas trip ended and I returned home. My tranny has always exhibited an occasional harshness on mid/high downshifts. It is quick to choose the lower gear, but the gear engages with a "just got rear ended" harshness as you aptly described. Happens a couple times a month before the vehicle is warmed fully.

    it worried me when I bought the car at 23k, so I changed out the fluid with no change at all. I drive it fairly aggressively and there has been no change at all or other sign of tranny problem. HTH.

    DougM
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Matt-
    Tires are the only thing that's between the road and the car/you. Your car's performance/handling is dependent on them, so spent a little more :)

    -Dave
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    Matt:
    I second the motion on spending a bit more for good tires.

    We tend to see a car as a big thing sitting on the ground, forgetting that it has just four small patches that actually contact the ground. These patches are about 6 - 8 inches wide and 10 - 12 inches long. Think about all 4,000+ lbs of car, you ***and your family*** riding around on those 2 to 3 square feet. With tires, as with everything in life, you get what you pay for. I've been very happy with the prices, selection, and service at Costco. If I didn't have a local Costco, Tirerack.com is a great resource and would be my next choice (and since I live in the same town as one of Tirerack's warehouses, might be able to work out a pickup/no shipping charges deal).

    I put new Michelin MXV4s from Costco on my '00 OBW Ltd. last spring, and am looking forward to trying them in the snow this winter.

    Good luck!

    --K9Leader
    2000 OBW Ltd, 44k miles, Michelin MXV4s
    1998 Toyota Sienna, 92k, Michelin X1s(?)
    1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, 104k, Michelin MXV4s
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    To Mike and Doug for the feedback on auto tranny fluid, when the weather warms up a bit I think I'll drain and refill.

    Toboggan: IIRC, mine had the same oil leak at similar mileage. It's a common problem.

    Another vote for not skimping on tires. The cost per mile for good tires is very low. I went with the same Michelins that were originally on my OB and have been very happy with them, FWIW.

    utahsteve
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Mike-

    Just as an FYI- Flemington just called and said the coil was bad. He said that was causing the misfiring. They are replacing that (under extended warranty) and the spark plug wires as well. Unfortunately the wires are not covered under the extended warranty. Oh well. Hopefully I should be driving my car by tonight.

    I'll check with AZP in 7k miles or so for the 60k check up.

    Mark
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also let me know if you want me to come check out your computer for yah.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Let me see what time I get back to SI. What time do you head in for work?

    Paisan, Inc: Car and Computer consultants!

    Mark
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    3pm-11pm this week, but I can probably swing by sometime on the weekend if you need me to.

    -mike
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Well, glad other people "suffered" the same oil leak. Now I have the head gasket problem to look forward to in about 20K miles <grin>. But then I'll have a new camshaft drive belt that doesn't have to be changed for another 105K miles.

    MNSteve
  • uffdaoleuffdaole Member Posts: 37
    Check out Cooper lifeliner touring. Recently replaced original michelins (98 OB) and could not be happier. Extremely quiet and smooth ride, great grip, different car! FWIW all, 14K and two Minn winters since piston replacement under warranty and NON-NIL-NO slap on these cold mornings. Nowwwwww, about that slight pinion bearing noise at 50mph or so!
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    We always beat the "rotor" horse but wanted to get your opinion. I have 40k miles on my 2001 Outback Ltd and it is now evident that my rotors are going. The tell-tale shaking when braking etc. Driving so much every day and traveling a lot for work, how long do you think I can go before getting them repaired? (It has been like this for about 1,000 miles or so)

    Also, I have the extended warranty with a $100 deductible: are they covered?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Don't know about the warranty, but it's OK to drive on warped rotors as long as they are not so bad that braking is degraded. I have some slight vibration on my Outback, but it's not anything bad enough to require attention. If it's easy and not too expensive, I may just put in new rotors at the next brake pad change.

    Craig
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    It's very easy and not too expensive (subjective opinion). I paid $50 each for OEM rotors for my '96 OBW several years ago. They're problaby more now though.

    DaveM
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    uffdaole,

    I'm pleased to hear you were successful in eliminating the piston slap. My 2003 Legacy is getting two new pistons on Tuesday to correct the cold weather piston slap.
    Did you have two pistons or all 4 pistons replaced?

    Jim
  • uffdaoleuffdaole Member Posts: 37
    Jim, all 4 were replaced. Had short block at 8k in March 99, OK until cold fall and slowly returned. After much go around with SOA and the old "normal", subie rep ( with help from patti i am sure) agreed to replace pistons Oct 02. Otherwise car has been great, cannot praise it enough.
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    uddaole,

    Thanks for the reply. This is my second Legacy in 4 years, so you can presume I am generally pleased with the Subaru brand.
    I hope two new pistons will resolve the piston slap. It seems odd to me that SOA will pay to remove the whole engine and then replace just two pistons instead of all four. (Although I must admit that the piston slap sound seems to be comming from only one cylinder).

    Jim
  • ponytrekkerponytrekker Member Posts: 310
    Just curious - how much to replace?
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    See message #2422. I did the job myself (very easy) so no labor $.

    DaveM
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Checking online, 1stsubaruparts.com lists the following prices for the parts:

    Part / 1stSub price / List price
    Fr rotor / $57 / $75
    Rr rotor / $57 / $75
    Fr pads / $60 / $80
    Rr pads / $55 / $72
    You'll need to add approx 10% to the 1stSub price for shipping & handling, but you'll save on sales tax unless you live in their state (Washington).

    My observations: 1) Front rotors are vented, the rears are not. I'm surprised the rr rotors aren't cheaper. 2) Last week due to poor planning, I had to purchase parts at my local dealer. Parts were HIGHER than the list price given on the 1stSubaru website. Overall I figured I paid 35% higher locally. Fortunately, I paid with SubaruBucks from my credit card.

    Generally, your mechanic will charge list for the parts.

    Jim
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I always purchase parts at the local dealer. They give me "mechanics" price (usually a minimum of 20% off). No shipping or waiting, but do have to pay 6% sales tax.

    Many years ago I went in to buy an A/C compressor clutch and asked if I could get the mechanics discount. They said sure and I've been getting it ever since. :-)

    They'll even give me the discount part price if they do the work. I need to figure out how to get a discount on labor though. :-(

    DaveM
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep I get OEM-style rotors (usually brembo) for around $45-50 when we do brake jobs for folks. It's a relatively easy job to do although can be a PITA.

    -mike
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    In reference to the posting that my parking brake light went and stayed on-went in yesterday and had to have the 2 rear pads replaced and the 2 rotors machined on my '96 OBW. The labor was $114.95 and the parts $97.94. I also had the tires rotated and the oil changed. The total cost was $272.00, but since I had $100.00 in Subaru bucks it ended up costing $172.00. Hopefully that has solved the situation.
    As to my fuel guage not working accurately I was told the sensor is in the fuel pump and I decided that it was not worth the expense to have it repaired since the performance of the vehicle has not been affected
  • ratbert1ratbert1 Member Posts: 72
    As far as noise goes, I can only compare them to the OEM Saturn tires that my wife had, which were terrible. The Nokians are quieter for sure. She's not a fast driver and has always, even when it was new, had problems with hydroplaning. I even tested them myself a few times and they did tend to handle wet roads poorly. Now that we have Nokians on her car, I can say that they are GREAT on wet roads. Maybe not as good as some heavy rain specific tires (you know, with the groove in the middle or whatever), but when you add the snow factor, tese are great all around tires. It takes a bit of convincing for me to switch to tires that cost a little more, but I'm now convinced. Nokian WRX will replace all 4 of my subaru tires when the time comes.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Where do you get the Brembos from? For that price, I'd get a set of Brembos over OEM (especially since the OEM rotors seem to warp so easily).

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    We have an account at a parts distributor. We usually alternate between Mountain and Brembo, both of which have been very good for us. Shoot me an e-mail and I can put you in touch with them.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's fair Mark, plug wires are definitely a wear and tear item.

    Get new rotors. Brakes are the most important item on the car, well maybe 2nd after tires.

    -juice
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    I test-drove a base '04 Outback wagon with 4-cylinder engine before Christmas. All this talk about head gaskets, fluid leaks, overheating, and brake rotors has made me a bit uneasy. (Especially considering my previous experience with a rented '00 Outback wagon that had only 3,000 miles on the odometer -- which overheated on I80 in Wyoming, required the addition of coolant, and used or leaked oil to the extent that it was a quart low when I returned the car.) What percentage of '04s are experiencing these problems? Is this a car I can expect to drive for 10 years and do only routine maintenance?
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I have a 4 cyl 2001 Outback Wagon .. other than a factory fix on a Check Engine Light, I have had no other than routine maintenance in 55,000 miles. I was more worried when I first started reading these boards, but bear in mind that when you have a board that is 'problems/solutions' you will SEE the problems. I agree that it worries me from time to time to see some of these problems, but overall it seems to me the car is more reliable than most ... although I've owned more expensive cars, this one is the best one I've ever owned as far as reliability.
    Since humans build the cars (at least parts of them .. lol) .. there will be mistakes from time to time ... but that's true of any make/model ..
    (my 2)
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yeah, this is the forum specifically for problems, so you'll see a lot of them here.

    I had a 00 Outback (52,000 miles) and now have an 02 LL Bean Outback (35,000 miles). Both have been great cars. I am very happy with the LL Bean, and plan on keeping the car for a long time. It's pretty much been flawless thus far.

    Craig
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    We have a 2003 Outback (base wagon, 5 speed) and it has been great, with one exception. It suffered from "clutch judder" and the clutch was replaced under warranty. Ours was one of the last '03s to be built with the old clutch parts. Newer ones have the upgraded parts, which is what we had ours replaced with. No other problems, and we feel it is a great car, with all the features we need.

    Len
  • squeezedlemonsqueezedlemon Member Posts: 18
    I am looking to replace the OME tires on my '96 LOB 2.5 L. Thanks for all the suggestions to date. I want to emphasize that I am looking for better hydroplaning resistance than the Michelin XW4 (which in my experience sucked) as I am moving from Boston to Portland, OR. Also the ride was pretty bumpy with the OME tires so I am looking for an improvement in that department as well. Snow and gravel capability is an important but lesser consideration. With that in mind Tire Rack points to the Aquatread 3 for meeting the above requirements according to customer surveys and with 640 treadwear. They are discounting these tires and I heard from a dealer in my area that they are discontinuing the model. Anyone out there with any knowledge of this tire's performance? My other possibilities are Bridgestone Turanza LS-T, Michelin Harmony and Michelin Hydroedge.

    Regards,

    Matt
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've had good experience with SP5000s and Sport A2s.

    -mike
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I ran them on my Merc Sable (99) and they were great in all kinds of weather including snow. I've heard from other people and read elsewhere that the type of suspension you have has a great deal to do with how these tires perform.

    My Sable had the "handling suspension" which meant that it was one really stiff ride. It did however outhandle a regular Taurus/Sable by a wide margin. Heard that people with softer suspensions had lots of problems with handling.

    FWIW

    Larry
  • emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    I bought a used Subaru a few months ago and it needs some normal wear parts. Can anyone recommend a trustworthy, quality on line Subaru parts site? I have a cart saved at 1stsubaruparts.com. Any bad experiences with this place, or other places to avoid. Thanks for any help.
      
    Robert
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    try Libertysubaru.com.

    Greg
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I used 1stsubaruparts once and had very good service. The part numbers they had listed did not match the part numbers I had so I called them and placed the order, rather than trusting the web. Turns out my part numbers were outdated.

    Karl
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    herzogtum71,

    I have a 2000 OBW with 53000 miles. While I have had a few problems with my car, I still feel it is a great vehicle. In 2000 - 2001 Suabru had some problems with the head gasket and brake rotors. They fully acknowledge the problem, and performed all work under warranty. While it was a pain in the neck, it is a mechanical creation, thus prone to problems. After all, nothing is perfect. For all that, the service and vehicle is great, and I plan on being a Subaru customer for a long time.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    '98 Forester L, 59k miles, out of pocket expenses for repairs: $0.

    '02 Legacly L, 17k miles, out of pocket expenses for repairs: $0.

    That would make the topic pretty boring. :o)

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    My impression is that my 01 OB's initial quality did not match that of my Toyotas. I had the rotor and headgasket problem along with a few much smaller issues. However, the car runs better and better as it ages (only 55K miles now). As I look at the new Subaru models (i.e. Forester) the initial quality seems to be much better and I expect the new Legacys to have great IQ. Having said that, the ultimate question is - would I buy another Subaru? Right now if I were buying I would head straight for my Subaru dealer for a new Legacy GT.

    Greg
  • 3subfam13subfam1 Member Posts: 8
    In contrast to Mike's post (#2444), I have had poor experience with the Dunlop Sport A2s. I replaced my original tires on my 2000 GT sedan in Nov. 2002. In July 2003 (after about 16,000 mi.) the tires were at least 50% worn. The dealer who installed them said that Dunlop was no longer giving pro-rata refunds.

    My original tires lasted about 40K miles, and the A2s were rated at 50K, IIRC. There was no change in my driving style between tires.

    I must qualify my experience by saying that I don't METICULOUSLY check and maintain the tires, (although I do visually check them periodically and add air as needed). I HAVE had the car serviced as per the Subaru timetables. The Tire Rack discussions on this tire mostly agree with my experience.

    What I need is a tire that will perform well in all conditions (especially Central NY snow!) but doesn't need to be babied.

    Any suggestions?
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