Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ateixeira · April 2002

Hmm, I think it was 65-70 for alloys, 70-75 for steel, but no, I'm not 100% sure.

Even so, 75 is close enough. I'm sure some tire shops don't change them from car to car, and I know the M-Class needs more than 100 lb-ft!

-juice

hondafriek · April 2002

I think you will find that if you tighten the lug nuts with the wrench provided with the car, (and I mean tighten in a sane manner) you will find if you check that it is pretty close to the recommended torque.

BTW. when I say tighten in a sane manner that means no standing on the wrench to tighten it.

Don,t laugh I have seen idiots 250 lbs. and more up jumping on the damn lug wrench when tightening the the lug nuts, mind you I have often said thats a bigger lug nut jumping on the end of the wrench.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · April 2002

They'll have warped rotors a few months later.

-juice

hondafriek · April 2002

The idiots will, but not if you tighten them in the manner I described.

Cheers Pat.

smarano · April 2002

First time I've ever been at this forum so excuse me if this problem has been addressed before...

I own a 1999 Subaru Outback Legacy wagon. In early January I noticed a 'subtle' engine vibration - as if a cylinder was misfiring - whenever I accelerated between 30 and 35mph. The problem is slightly more pronounced in cold weather, but it exists at virtually all temperatures below 80 degrees, and remains even when the car is fully warmed up.

At first I thought it was an unbalanced tire, as it appeared as if the car vibrated slightly as well, but I had all of the tires checked and rebalanced.

I brought the car to my Subaru dealer and they claimed they could not duplicate the problem. I am near 100% positive that they did not bother to road-test the car, however.

I then brought the car to an independent mechanic who immediately noticed the problem when he roadtested it. He thought it was a broken ignition wire or a bad plug, and I gave him the OK to change all spark plugs and ignition wires. The vibration continued.

This mechanic contacted a national repair complaint reporting service to which he subscribed (they apparently maintain a database of car owner complaints for virtually every automobile make and model) to see if other Outback owners had reported this problem. The service bureau researched the complaint and stated that a relatively small number of 1999 Outbacks were plagued by 'loose engine valve seats' that manifested themselves with the same engine vibration symptom.
The bureau reported that the problem was eliminated only after the engine valve seats were overhauled.

The independent mechanic then offered to contact my local Subaru dealer and explain what he had been told by the service bureau. The Subaru service tech claimed he had never heard of this situation with 1999 Outbacks.

The engine vibration problem still persists and in fact has become slightly more pronounced - though it sometimes has disappeared on a couple of the 85 degree plus days that we've had here in New Jersey this spring.

Any insight or advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

emmaline · April 2002

The "check engine" light on my 2002 Legacy Wagon keeps coming on (purchased 10/01, less than 5000 miles). I've taken it into the dealer a couple of times. They "fix" it for awhile, but then it comes back on. After the last "fix, I heard a funny whirring noise seeming to come from under the center of my car. Took it back, the whirring noise is gone, but the "check engine" light came back on. I'm taking the car in Monday, the dealer is going to keep it for a couple of days (and take care of the cost of a rental car for me). The service manager said this is a difficult problem to solve because of ever increasing emission regulations. I'm very disappointed that a new car is taking up so much time. Working the drop-offs and pick-ups around a busy work schedule is inconvenient, and not something I expected with a new car. I've only ever owned Hondas and Toyotas, and never had an annoying problem like this.

reblack_jr · April 2002

I "peeked" at the pads and cleaned and waxed the insides of my alloy wheels yesterday. I have some thickness information as measured at the "flat" at the end of the pad. I also photographed the brake assembly in case my description of the "flat" is poor. Both front pads were 16/32" from the "flat" to the surface of the rotor. Similarly both of the rear pads measured 14/32". Based on visual observations I think the front and rear pads and assemblies are different. I suspect that is because more braking occurs in the front. I was able to see a "notch" in the pad surface on the front pads that, based on other brakes I have seen over the years, was at least 1/8" deep indicating to me I am not near the wear limit of the pads or down to my last 25% of useful pad.

Does anyone have a service manual that might indicate what the "new" and "worn out" or "wear limit" thicknesses might be?

Regarding the cleanup and waxing of the insides of the wheels, that was a tough job. Still looking for the "right" brush or tool to remove the corrosion or dirt on the backsides and holes of the spokes. It was fairly easy to clean the inside diameter of the wheels but the spokes were tough. I scrubbed the spokes with an old toothbrush and used a wax cleaner to remove most of the dirt. I guess I should of done it earlier, right after I took delivery of the car new.
Thanks in advance for the thickness information and any advice on round two of the wheel cleaning activity that I might attempt in the future. If any of the photos showing the "flat" are needed let me know.

peterson10 · April 2002

Secret weapon (well, not so secret)= SIMPLE GREEN! Simple Green is a powerful yet very safe degreaser/detergent which can be diluted to suit your needs. I would be careful using it at full concentration, for prolonged periods, on delicate paint and the like, but on alloy wheels it is unbeatable. Spray it on, let it sit for 30 seconds or so, hit it with a soft brush (worn out toothbrushes are ideal), and everything, including the tar, underbody goop, and bugs rinse right off. Hey, do I get a commission on this?

YetAnotherDave

ateixeira · April 2002

Steve: call your dealer and ask to schedule a ride-a-long with the service manager, then show them. Could be an injector, or the ECU, is my guess. If the dealer drags their feet, call 800-SUBARU3 and open a case number with them.

Emma: CELs are very common today, much more so than a few years ago because of much stricter OBDII regulations. Federal law requires that the light be triggered even for a single misfire - perhaps caused by water in the gas tank from condensation, or even a loose gas cap causing a vacuum leak in the fuel system.

I'd advise two things: don't run on empty, fill your tank once it's less than 1/4 full, especially in the winter. Also, tighten that gas cap until it clicks - a few times.

The good news? A solid lights means little or nothing. A more serious problem would have the CEL blinking. In that case I'd be more concerned.

Black: you may want to ask in the Subaru Crew - Modifications thread about the brake pad specs, I bet Colin knows and he hangs out there.

-juice

locke2c · April 2002

Paisan hit the nail on the head. btw, didn't see if you have an automatic or manual OB? Automatics almost always go through brakes faster due to a lack of engine braking.

Anyway, I don't know what the service limit is on pad thickness but 1/2" sounds like quite a lot of pad to me. You could call 1-800-SUBARU3 and ask what it is.

If you feel you're being taken advantage of after learning the service limit yourself, complain aobut it to the dealer and SOA via a professionally written snail mail. And even if your pads are nearly worn out-- which it sure doesn't sound like they are-- you can change them yourself in literally minutes. Buy a can of Brake-Kleen and give the pistons a squirt while you swap the pads, that's all it takes...at least the first time-- you may eventually want to have more thorough service done on the calipers.

-Colin

gecko_sz · April 2002

My 2000 GT wagon (automatic) is going in for its final check before the 36k warranty expires. I wanted to see if others have had some of these issues. I won't repost some of my problems that I've already seen on this list.

1. Body makes creaking noises when driving very slowly. It probably does it at higher speeds too but the road noise drowns it out.

2. Rear tailgate release lever won’t work when weather is very warm. Can’t open the tailgate under those conditions.

3. Front suspension feels loose when going over bumps. It makes rattling noises.

4. Transmission shifts hard before warmup.

5. On very cold startup it is slow to crank and the idle speed fluctuates (between 1800-1900 RPM?). If car is not completely warmed up it seems to run quite rough. NOTE: I live in MN--it gets really cold.

6. When braking from higher speeds there is a sound like the rotors are warped but I can’t feel anything in the brake pedal.

7. When accelerating (rapid) on slippery surfaces the rear drive is noticeably slammed. You can feel the car shake hard and a loud thud can be heard. Is this the LSD?

Thanks for any feedback you might have.

Scott

paisan · April 2002

4: Normal for these transmissions, also it won't shift to 4th before the ATF is above 32degrees

5: Probably need a new battery, and 1800-1900 is normal at startup when cold.

7: That is the power being shifted from the front (80% torque) to the rear due to slippage, normal on AT subies

-mike

jay_24 · April 2002

I agree on 4,5, and 7. On #4 I think its just the torque converter not kicking in until its warm. I noticed this all winter. The RPMs are about 250 to 300 (3100? @ 70mph) higher for about the first 5 to 10 miles, then it drops down to normal (2800? @ 70mph).

#6 HOw long of a commute do you have? From what your discribing it might be similar to what our van had. Since my wife drives the van the most it has short trips and some days doesn't go anywhere. The brake rotors actually get surface rust on them which makes them have a rough grinding noise and some pulse feel.

--Jay
(northern WI)

paisan · April 2002

My response was as per the manual, at least the one in my XT6s and I believe my dad's '97 Legacy as well.

-mike

jay_24 · April 2002

I had heard many cars/trucks stay in 3rd when its cold too. This past winter I shifted to 3rd when the traphic was a bit slower at about 55 and the car was still fairly cold. The RPMs jumped to around 4000ish. So, I figure from my experiment it must be just the torque converter not locking up. Then again I'm not a tranny expert....

side note (off topic): I saw one of your posts over in the chevy trail blazer section. You got one? if so how do you like it? I'm looking for something to tow my camper and haul 5 people.

paisan · April 2002

I have a Trooper. If you are looking for an excellent 5-person hauler for your camper, go for a 2002 Trooper. Very low cost, high-quality, long lasting trucks. You can get a loaded one w/o leather for around $26K currently. I tow 5200lb car trailers with mine and carry 5-paisan sized passengers on a regular basis. Hop over to the Isuzu owners club on here and they'll let you know exactly how good they are.

-mike

ateixeira · April 2002

Lube the sway bar bushings to cure the creaking. Maybe some lithium grease on the spring base and around other moving parts. I cured a nasty squeek on our 626 that way.

Have the dealer adjust the striker plate for the hatch.

You may want to flush the ATF, though this will cost you because it's maintenance.

I'd clean the brakes, and yes I bet that is the LSD or maybe the AWD you feel kicking in.

I got a new battery and my Forester starts up much better. OE battery only had 260 CCAs, I now have 535 and the difference is like night and day. Just $30 at Wal Mart.

-juice

my95sub · April 2002

I have a 1995 AWD Subaru Legacy wagon. It appears that the AWD is not working, only front wheel drive. I have checked to make sure there is no fuse in the fuse holder, under the hood, which disables AWD for towing purposes. Has anyone else experiecnce this problem? And what was the solution. Thanks

paisan · April 2002

my95sub, sounds like a problem my aunt had once with her SVX. I believe the problem was with the rear diffy. They replaced it and worked fine ever since.

-mike

emmaline · April 2002

Thanks for your advice, Juice, about how to live with the CEL problem. I have been "triple" and "quadruple" clicking the gas cap ever since the CEL came on the first time, on the advice of the dealer and service department. BTW, on the second visit for this problem, the air assist valve was replaced. I took the car in yesterday, and received a call from the service dept today saying that the computer for my car is going to be returned to the factory to be reset, and I should get my car back this Friday. I'm wondering if this is a problem unique to Subaru, or if other makes are experiencing the same problems with CELs. Seems like the purpose of the CEL is being lost (as in, pull over, something serious is wrong with your car). I'd sure appreciate knowing if other Subaru owners are dealing with this. Emma

storyteller · April 2002

Emma: No, the problem is endemic to modern cars and not a specifically Subaru thing. I haunt several boards for other makes, and the CEL issue is amazingly ubiquitous. It's a nuisance, but rest assured you not alone.

Steve

emmaline · April 2002

Thank you, Steve, for your reply. It does not comfort me to know that this is an endemic problem. I have purchased a new car every 10 to 12 years. I take care of them, and always have people eager to buy them. Cars are not a hobby for me, or something to impress others with. I want them to get me from A to Z, and I faithfully follow maintenance agreements. In return, I expect my cars to function well up to 100,000 miles. This has been the case in the past. Is it not something I can expect now? Emma

storyteller · May 2002

Emma: Raise your expectations. Compared to cars built a decade ago, your Legacy is quieter, smoother, more responsive and far more pleasant to drive. The sound system is far better than anything available a decade ago. The engine will be smooth and it will start every time. You now have all-wheel-drive, which you didn't before; that is both a pleasure and important safety feature. The car has advanced safety engineering that I hope you never have the chance to learn about. Your Legacy can be expected to give you at least 100 K miles of great driving, and I think a more realistic expectation these days for someone who keeps the oil fresh is 150 K of GOOD miles (reliable miles, not plagued with mechanical breakdowns).

The only downside is that modern cars have gotten so complex that you have to deal with irritations like Check Engine Lights and other glitches related to the complexity of the electronics.

Expect a wonderful relationship with your Legacy!

Steve

ateixeira · May 2002

I agree with Steve 100%, CELs are all too common on all brands.

But at least you can feel good about your car polluting probably 1/10th of what new cars did a decade ago. ODBII ensures even gas fumes don't leak out.

-juice

nygreg · May 2002

Jay - your correct. My 4EAT H4 is at 2700 rpm at 70 and 3000 rpm at 82. Of course I am extrapolating - I never go above 65.

Emma - I am bringing in my Sienna for the 5th time tomorrow for them to replace the auto door motor. The buzzer failed (which is integrated with the motor) and it has taken the dealer 3 tries now to get the right part. Told it was a mistake with the drawing from Toyota. We'll see. At least I got a free inspection and tire rotation out of it. My point? I think it is fair to expect 1-2 problems for a new car in the first 3 years. My 92 Camry (which I loved and was outrageously reliable) had 2 problems in the first 100K - the backup lights wiring failed and the front exhaust pipe failed. rambling off.

Greg

ateixeira · May 2002

1992 was pre-OBD2, so that rules out CELs right there.

Power doors on minivans are problematic for all makes - GM, Honda, Mazda, and Toyota have trouble with them.

-juice

nygreg · May 2002

door has been great. Just the buzzer that sounds when you put the car in drive with the door open failed. Again, it is integrated, so they need to replace the motor. Can't understand the problem since Toyota has been making this van for several years. There can only be one part number. oh, well.

Greg

cynthiag · May 2002

The way I feel about it is that I do my research and always have high expectations for the car I buy. Well, it worked for the first car. Turned over 198,000 miles today in my '85 Toyota Camry liftback, and they were mostly trouble-free miles. And pleasant ones too. Never stranded in this car. Mind you, this is a car that has never been garaged, always street parked, crashed once, stolen once, broken into some 3-4 times, rear-ended lightly about 3 times, hit from the side lightly once, smack on the left wheel, and once somewhat lightly from the front.

With all of that, the car has never had visible or any kind of damage to the bumpers, and although a door and quarter panel had to be replaced from the bad crash, there are only a couple of dings on the car. (I got some neck pain for a while out of the crash, but was otherwise unharmed.)

I'll drive her for the last time to pick up my Outback tomorrow , but I can tell you, I expect good things out of the Outback too. What you want to bet the new car delivers as well?

Of course, I won't hurt her feelings by telling her about the Camrycar !

storyteller · May 2002

Cynthia: I confidently expect you to love the OB, although it wouldn't surprise me to hear about CEL issues or similar little stuff. That's just part of modern cars, it seems, especially dippy little problems with electronics. My girlfriend's son just bought a Camry with the idea he would never have any sort of trouble with a new car. Last week he had the Camry towed (at his expense) four times! Some kind of problem with the starter motor that the dealership told him was caused by the aftermarket theft alarm.

Cars! They're like men. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!

nygreg · May 2002

You should keep your expectations high and take that into consideration when purchasing. That pressure keeps auto manufacturers focused on it. One thing really great about Subaru is Patti's involvement here. She feeds back our gripes and recommendations to SOA. No other brand is doing this here as far as I know. Also, I understand your feeling about your Camry. Loved mine and wish I didn't trade it in. I would have been a great 3rd car. Congrats on the Subaru.

Greg

dcab · May 2002

I've had ZERO problems in the five plus years I've owned my 5 speed 97OB. Lately though I've noticed a little squeak every time I push down the clutch pedal. Where should I put the WD-40 to make the squeak go away?

emmaline · May 2002

It was not my intention to bash Subaru, or hold up other makes as faultless. I love my new Subaru...it is fun to drive, and my mechanic of many years (whose expertise is Hondas and Toyotas) encouraged me to buy it, saying Subaru is a good car (especially after '95), and I should get many trouble-free miles, as in 100,000 plus. But I do not agree that a chronically dysfunctional CEL is a "little" problem. For me, it is a big problem. What if it became necessary for me to sell my car...how do I convince a potential buyer to ignore the fact that the check engine light is on? If it becomes so mundane that I ignore it, but something major is wrong, where will I stand with the warranty? I am trusting that my dealership will correct this problem, and I believe that they are doing so. Please do not dismiss this as a little problem. If the check engine light has become meaningless, then get it off the dashboard. Again, I want this problem to be fixed, so I can continue to enjoy my Subaru. Emma

paisan · May 2002

Check with other makes and models. Same # of CELs on their cars. It's required by the US Government to have it.

-mike

emmaline · May 2002

paisan...I have tried to find other CEL problems with other makes on this website, but have not been able to because I find this website difficult to navigate. (My problem, not the website's problem.) Could you share some? I did have a CEL with my Toyota Corolla, but that was at 95,000 miles, and it was quickly diagnosed and corrected. It scares me to have purchased a make I have never owned before, and to have problems like this before 5,000 miles. I repeat that I am happy with my Subaru other than the CEL problem. Emma

storyteller · May 2002

Emma: I didn't mean to suggest you were unreasonable to be disappointed about the CEL thing. Many people are.

Edmunds is embarrassed about the lack of a good "search" function in their Town Hall software, so you might not easily find what you are looking for on other boards. In the past year I've seen CEL problems crop up on boards for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Acura and VW. I wouldn't know whether other brands have CEL problems because I ignore their boards, but if the maker rated by Consumer's Reports as having the best overall quality (Subaru) has CEL problems, you can bet that Ford, Pontiac, Kia and etc have them, too.

The CEL can be tripped by quite a few different sensors, and it is linked to a sensitive little trigger that fires even when something trivial seems to go awry with the fuel system. Much of this is dictated by recently instated federal standards.

If your dealer cannot give you satisfaction with this (and it can be tricky to run down) tell him you are going to officially "open a complaint" with Subaru of America. You can do that by coming here and calling for help from Patti, a friendly representative from the company who frequents these boards and occasionally offers to help the paperwork on a complaint as it moves through the system.

Keep us posted about how this goes, and good luck!

Steve

paisan · May 2002

My dad's Hyundai has gotten some CELs. My uncles brand new Acura TLS has had a few, almost everyone I know has had a CEL on cars with ODBII (that is the newest EPA/GOV required computer on board diagnostics)

If your dealer can't diagnos it properly I'd try a different dealer if there is one relatively close. Usually if a dealer can't diagnos it properly it means they have a bad service dept.

Something as simple as bad gas can cause the CEL light to come on.

-mike

bkaiser1 · May 2002

I have 3 friends with new(ish) VW's -- their Check Engine lights are "on" more than they are "off"...and the [only] dealer here in Reno is an absolute nightmare to deal with. Their constant CEL's and the rotten dealership is mostly what kept me out of a new Passat and convinced me to buy the OB. I know it's not the end of the world having a CEL come on, but it is annoying and a real hassle to deal with. I guess I've been luck to never have had a CEL problem with any of my cars.

Brian

pokhara · May 2002

I bought a OB wagon just a couple of weeks ago. It has added tweeter - I don't know if it is relevant.
The problem is: I HEAR an irritating wind-blowing noise, I think, coming front corner of the driver-side window - that is where the tweeter is. The noise comes when driven over aprox. 30+ mph. The noise level is different based on whether going uphill, downhill, or on level land - but the noise is constant nevertheless. It is NOT the usual wind blowing outside the car. It could be the wind coming through a small hole somewhere or wind hitting the side view mirror. But it is very irritating.

Any clue? Manufacturing defect or any way to get rid of it? TIA.

mrk610 · May 2002

Cronic problem turn the radio up lol.
Sorry just some humor I have gotten into the habit of putting the pass and dr side windows down about 1" then back up everytime I go to drive somewhere, and I feel that it helps .

mike k

peterson10 · May 2002

Lots of previous posts on this (many by me). Quick summary: large sideview mirrors (driver's is angled more perpendicular, hence more wind-buffeting) plus micro-gap in your window gasket (caused by the contour of the tweeter housing) equals "wind noise". After closing the door, roll the window down a bit and back up; this helps reseat the gasket. A better fix would be a modification to the gasket, which I hope to do myself soon, but probably won't because after a few months I (you too I hope) am no longer bothered (much) by it.

Better than the new Caravan I rented a few weeks ago!

YetAnotherDave

jimmyj1945 · May 2002

emmaline: I'm with you! I am planning on buying a Subaru very soon, but have been bothered by this "Small" problem. I have owened a lot of vehicles cars and trucks and have never had this problem with any of them. In the last seven years: 3-Nissans, 2-Hondas, 1-Infiniti, and 1-Toyota. It does bother me somewhat. I keep thinking Subaru will make a quick fix and all will be well????

Jim J.

hammersley · May 2002

I, too have a squeak... 97 OB 70k miles, and I hear this squeak when I press the clutch pedal down through about the first 2 inches of pedal travel, then it's gone through the rest of the range of motion. It's barely perceptible at idle with foot off the pedal completely.

Anybody with any ideas?

Cheers!
Paul

cynthiag · May 2002

I like my new Subaru Outback, and so far so good since I picked her up Thursday evening, but I have noticed that the crossbars make some wind whistle at freeway speeds. The dealer suggested I either remove them or perhaps reposition them to cut this down.

I hate to have to remove them, as then I need to PUT them somewhere, and space is at a premium here. So any ideas on how I should reposition them?

shortlid · May 2002

I am here at my Mom's house working on the '98 Legacy L with the EJ22 and auto. It has started a cold start-up tapping about a week ago. But it's not that cold anymore and now the tappings louder?? It was doing it loud enough to hear it about 30 feet away and it was 40 degrees tonight?? It has 5500 miles on the oil in it and the quality and level is great?? Also we had the tail section of the autotomatic trany/transfer case rebuilt by the dealer because of the torque bind problem with 40,000 on the clock. Now with 65,000 on the clock and out of warentee she says every once in awhile it will feel like it's binding up in reverse??

heatherbean · May 2002

Well not sure it's the cross bars at all. Most Outback's/Legacy's have a whistle from the A-pillar seal in the drivers window. This can not be fixed- or so that's the story at the Dealer. Some are worse then others. Take your cross bars off and see if anything changes. I replaced mine standard crossbars on both Outbacks with the $100 Round Cross Bar set at the Dealer Parts Dept. They are by Yakima, made of steel, and much stronger then the standard plastic ones.
No wind noise from them at all.
Heather

mrk610 · May 2002

1st thing I would do is have new oil and filter change done . Also can't quit recall now but I think you may have to have the valves adjusted too. Juice or Paisan any suggestions you guys seem to know subies in and out .

mike k

peterson10 · May 2002

Make sure they are facing the right way (thin edge facing back, like an airplane wing). Also, move them back a few inches; there is a point where the air flow over the windshield no longer creates that annoying harmonic. You could also wrap some cord around them: works great but looks utilitarian.

BTW, finally began my experiment on windnoise caused by a the tiny air leak in the window gasket (around the tweeter housing). I shaved down some closed-cell foam to create a tapered bolster for the gasket. It worked great for one day; then the foam lost its virility and the gap came back (though less than before). I'll keep at it 'til I find the permanent fix.

YetAnotherDave

klbears · May 2002

I've had two oil leaks from the CV boot. The first one they fixed under warranty, but has anyone had this problem and how common is this problem. I have a 2000 Subaru Outback?

pokhara · May 2002

I found the problem and the solution too - oh, well, sort of. Simply rolling down and rolling up the window never worked in my case.

The wind noise (or whistle, if you like to call it) was coming of the area of the front glass window where rubber meets the glass. At the same area but in the body of the car (not glass window), if you unfold the rubber sealing glued to the car, you will see a little tab inside. Now, get a rolled up paper or plastic slightly thicker than a pencil (I used one of the "Attention" sticker thrown in the car floor). Put that roll in side the rubber fold. Close the door, roll up the window. No noise. If the noise comes up again, and it does, roll down and roll up the window.

Another thing bothering me is a rattle coming from the area of the back seat of the passenger side. It must be coming from the seat belt housing. My wife is so much irritated by the rattle (feels like right in her ear) that she refuses to seat in my wagon!

shortlid · May 2002

I will change the oil and see if it improves, thanks. What do you mean by not quiting recall??

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles