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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Definitely try less abrasive stuff first. Also wash the area afterwards.

    FWIW, my dad's car looks like new, no trace of the vandalism.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    I've easily removed them probably 4 times since I bought my 2001 LLBean 2/01/01. How? Good old elbow grease and a clean, dry towel. The friction takes the scuff right off - environmentally and economically sound method...

    Ralph

    PS That's how I've removed every mark on the lower cladding - minus actual chips. BTW, this trick DOES NOT work on the upper body paint - it will leave fine scratches!!!
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    Before I rotate the tires, the car was going straight, no pull at all. After I rotate the tires, the car is pulling to right. It is a function of rotating the tires. So, My LL Bean is pulling to right every other 7500 miles. 7500 miles is how often I rotate my tire. I am not quite sure whether it is a rim issue or tire issue. The tires are orginal RE92 and show no sign of uneven wear. Anybody has any idea?

    Alland
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You probably had a bad alignment that has now worn the tires a particular way. Be sure to get an alignment when you get new tires!

    You are rotating front to back only, correct?

    Craig
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    I am rotating front to back only, no cross rotation. It has been that way since I bought the car new. I brought the car back to the dealer a week after buying the car for shimmying and pulling to the right. The dealer did the alignment, but it did not help. I discovered that the car goes straight after my first tire rotation. It started pulling to right again on my second tire rotation. So, I live with the problem for every other 7500 miles.

    Alland
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    Do the tires show any unusual wear, or are they wearing evenly?

    My car is *very* sensitive to PSI, even a pound or two difference left to right will cause it to pull to one side. I'm assuming you have checked that and adjusted? I just rotated my tires and had to add air to the former rear ones and remove air from the former front ones. Just another thing to consider.

    utahsteve
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    on one of the tires is probably the problem. I've run across this several times. AFAIK there is no solution other than replacing the effected tire.

    Greg
  • johng66johng66 Member Posts: 3
    Well, this morning I put my 2000 OBW (66000 miles)in with the dealer for diagnosis. Yes, driver side head gasket is leaky. Per an SOA service bulletin, they only want to provide coolant conditioner rather than replace the leaky head gasket. SOA states that I will be getting a mailing from SOA that will provide extended warranty covering head gasket failures and any other damage due to a failure or leaking/spraying (!) coolant (like replacing the timing belt if coolant sprays on it b/c coolant is corrosive). Of course, I need to continue adding coolant conditioner at every coolant system flush.

    I am not really happy about this resolution. My independent mechanics (two different shops) both say this coolant conditioner fix is temporary and that the gasket will eventually fail. I mentioned this to the SOA rep. He says SOA stands behind this conditioner solution. I said why isn't the extended warranty greater than 100,000 miles. The SOA rep says that "getting a car to 100,00 miles is good and that all bets are off at 100,000 miles".

    Can you believe this!!! I told him that I expect a car to last well past 100M miles! I mentioned that my wife had a bad experience (1996) with a previous Subaru (2 door sedan) that blew a head gasket at 130M miles resulting in a severely damaged engine. We eventually came back to Subaru in 2000. We are not so sure we will be life-long Subbie owners at this point. We are thinking maybe it is prudent to dump the car before it reaches 100M miles.

    At 3pm, the SOA Rep said he would call the dealer to discuss the condition of the gasket and get back to me. I am still waiting at 5:30pm...

    Any and all comments welcome...

    -John
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    it looks like the Rep. explained everything related to the conditioner. It is not what your independent shops would normally see as a "stop leak".

    We've been testing it out and it works wonderfully. If you use the conditioner when you do your coolant flushes, you will more than likely not experience a head gasket failure.

    This addresses seepage/or leaks around the head gasket. You should never end up with major engine damage because of a minor leak. If the leak went on for a long time and the vehicle is driven "hot" or without coolant, you can end up with engine damage. Just make sure you do your routine maintenance and you should be fine.

    Try to understand - our obligation when a car goes out of warranty is over. There are a lot of manufacturer's who look at issues like this and walk away from the customer and the problem. If we behaved like that, we know we would lose customers, so we track failure information and try to do what we can - while being fiscally responsible. If the head gasket was replaced, you would still have the same expansion and contraction that contributes to the seepage. This conditioner addresses that issue. We're trying to do the right thing for customer's because we are seeing a high frequency of these leaks. It isn't a recall or anything safety related. It's just trying to address the problem.

    I'm confident that this will take care of the problem. If it doesn't, you have the warranty in place to help. It's backing up our confident position on this conditioner.

    I'm not sure what you are waiting to hear from our Rep. above what they've already said. I'll check in with them tomorrow morning.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I have a leaking HG on my 2001 Forester and took it in to the dealer the other day. SOA has agreed to replace the gasket at no cost to me and I have an appointment to have it done next week. BTW, my car has 82K miles, so Subaru is definitely going above and beyond on this. I have no regrets on buying this car, or my wife's '03 Outback. Great cars, great service. Thanks Subaru, and thanks Patti.

    Len (case # 585945)
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    then the upcoming campaign. I'll let Barry and Joe know that your happy. It'll mean a lot to them, as it does to me.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • cheryl19cheryl19 Member Posts: 1
    I was on the freeway and all my warning lights came on. Then I noticed that my car no longer accelerated. I pulled to the side of the road and turned off the car. I turned it back on and it seems to work fine. I have been driving it for a couple of days without any problems.

    I checked with the dealer and they said that they had never heard of this happening. Has anyone experienced this with their Outback. I have a 2002 VDC model.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    to ask the dealer to check it out to see if any codes were stored in the control unit. That might help explain it.

    Patti

    PS I'm sorry that happened. It must have rattled you quite a bit.
  • ohsubieohsubie Member Posts: 8
    I have just discovered a coolant leak on the bottom drivers side rear cylinder 69000 miles. It is not the dreaded headgasket leak but the engine plug in the side of the block. I stopped by my local dealer (Wagner in Fairborn Oh) They looked at it and confirmed by dianoges. I placed a plug on order and will fix it this weekend. Headgaskets due fail, but Subaru seems to be more then fair about treating the customer right! I had a Chey Luv truck that left be stranded 70 miles from home with a blown head gasket with a cylinder full of coolant. This was when warranties were only 12/12000. I had to have the head milled before I could repair it. Patti my kudos to Wagners. They all ways take the time to look at problems and share freely their expertise. Now if Subaru could only make a "Real" pickup truck. Keep up the good work
  • firstovfirstov Member Posts: 31
    Your Subaru engine probably was stalled. It usually happens when there is a water in the gas tank. Get a bottle of a "DryGas" and it should fix the problem, as it fixed mine with LL-Bean.
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Patti,

    I was going to bring in my 01 Outback next week for the 3-year cooling system flush. Do you have a service bulletin or service directive number pertaining to the cooling system conditioner? I would like to ensure that this is added when I bring my car in.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would go ahead and get it scanned for error codes. More than likely the ODB2 system stored at least one fault code. Dealers have a scanner that can read those. Even a place like AutoZone will scan it for free.

    I'd suggest you reset the ECU if you were ever stranded, but that would delete any codes so you'd never know what happened. Plus it's working well now.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    WWP-99. They are just coming out today. The conditioner might not be at your dealer until late next week. Can you reschedule the appointment by a week? Just a thought to save you a trip.

    I'll post details on the bulletin this weekend when I get a few minutes "quiet time".

    Patti
  • johng66johng66 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the online and phone discussions regarding my case. You explained the nature of the "conditioner repair" well and stressed that you do believe in its effectiveness. I really do hope the coolant conditioner resolves my leaky head gasket.

    Also, I hope my car is one that gets covered under the upcoming service program regarding head gaskets. From earlier phone conversations with SOA and your #2664 post above, I was told and given the impression that my 2000 OBW would be offered the extended 8yr/100,000 mile warranty for head gasket and related failures.

    Just today, SOA informed me that only certain 1999-2002 OBW would be offered this extended warranty. The selection criteria was not known by the SOA Rep. Sounds like Subaru may have an idea as to the root cause of these HG issues.

    Since my OBW has an HG leak, I can only keep my fingers crossed that I am included in this program.

    -John
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    I really appreciate the info. I will indeed reschedule my appointment.

    Thanks again,
    Rob
  • simon_txsimon_tx Member Posts: 42
    As a prospective Subaru owner, is there anything unique to the boxer engine as compared to my current VQ3.0 from Nissan?

    I've seen some comments on here about burning oil and such, which I don't really understand why it would be different for the boxer.

    IS there anything different or better - is servicing easier/more diffult?

    those kinds of opinions are what I'm looking for.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, it's totally unique. It's laid out longitudinally, compared to your transverse mounted VQ.

    The VQ has better access, the engine sits higher, above the tranny and diffy. Plus the V shape put the spark plus up where you can access them. BUt a lot of weight sits very high up, look at the position of the engine block and how it affects the center of gravity.

    Subaru puts the boxer engine in front of the trans. It's very low down, if you look the top of the block falls below the top of the tire. That keeps the center of gravity low.

    The trade-off is tougher access. To get to the plugs you might have to remove the intake or the windshield wiper fluid container, or both. Fortunately it's not as hard as it sounds. That's why they use long-life plugs.

    All the routine stuff is accessible, all fluid lids are bright yellow for easy visibility. I've done all my own service, and I don't even have a shop manual. So it's not that tough.

    The most common problems? #1 would be wheel bearings, but only on Foresters up to 2002 and Imprezas up to 2001. The Legacy has been good and newer designs have been good. They seem to have corrected this.

    #2 among serious issues would be the head gaskets on the EJ25 engines, but Subaru stretched warranty coverage to 8 years/100k miles. 2002 and later have had far less frequency than the 1999-2001s.

    With that said, there are 4 Subarus with the EJ25 in my family, that's 8 head gaskets, and zero leaks.

    Also, the H6 engine has not been affected, nor has the turbo engines in the XT or Baja. Those do have a different block design with a semi-closed deck. They seem to be very robust and no one has reported any sort of failure with those up to now. So the H6 or turbo are worthy upgrades even if you're just looking for a robust/reliable design.

    Good luck shopping.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    the only thing I would say is partly difficult to get at is the plugs. BTW - 30K miles is not long life plugs. :) But, to change the oil or items like timing and PS belts, the boxer is a dream compared to most others.

    Greg
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    What's unique about the boxer 4 cylinder (H4) is the firing order and timing. It results in a wonderfully rumbly engine note and a sweet sounding exhaust (especially if you put on a nice muffler). I put a Prodrive muffler on my WRX (with the H4 turbo) and it sounds like a cross between a quiet Harley and a V8 muscle car, with a dose of class thrown in. It really is a pleasure to listen to, unlike many other cars out there (if you've ever heard a Honda or VW with a potato shooter muffler, those sound horrible).

    The H6 fires more like a straight-6 and is less unique feeling/sounding. However the H6 is very smooth. I forget the relative rankings, but I think the H6 is up there with the V12 and straight-6 as the smoothest engines. Certainly smoother than a V6 or V8.

    I've had four Subarus, and none have consumed any oil between changes. In fact, I don't even check the oil between changes now! (which is probably a bad habit to get into). Other than a little difficulty getting to the spark plugs (which have a 60000 mile interval on the H6) the engines are super easy to maintain and work on. As Juice already mentioned, the compact size and layout of the boxer really helps keep the COG low, which improves handling and packaging quite a bit. if you look at Subaru's overall engine/transmission/drivetrain layout, you can see how well it is packaged. It really is an engineering marvel (and I say that as an engineer!).

    Definitely test drive a Subaru to get a feel for the engine. Any model with an H4 and 5-spd will give you a good example of the fun rumbly side of the boxer, while the H6/auto cars will feel super smooth and refined.

    Craig
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    well, Porsche uses boxer engines and so did Ferrari for a while as did the VW Beetle.

    I also believe a number of light aircraft engines are of boxer design.

    Jim
  • emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    I've got some GM sealant tabs, (primarily a vegetable formula). Would it hurt or help to add them to the Subaru's cooling system. No head gaskets leaks at 87,000 miles, preventative maintenance mainly. Coolant system flushed and filled by Subaru technician about 3000 miles ago.
        Robert.
  • pattipcpattipc Member Posts: 53
    the Subaru conditioner. I think we used those "tabs" in the early '80's? Anyway, this conditioner is really good with the rust prohibitor also, so it might be better. At least that's what I'm told. Also, since it's now being used in production, I know that they've tested it out pretty thorougly.

    Patti
  • emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    GM's still using them though to reduce porosity in aluminum parts.

     Robert.
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    About a year ago I was on this board quite a bit with a blown left head gasket on our 2000 Outback with 62K. After a lot of phone calls and my own research, SOA paid somewhere around 75% of the bill. Now I'm reading about this 100K coverage on head gaskets. Is this correct? I notice a person from SOA (Patti?) is on this site now. Should I give SOA a call?
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    I understand that Subaru recommends rotating the tires front to back rather than criss-cross them. Does anyone know what the reason is?
  • pattipcpattipc Member Posts: 53
    Please call into us again with your VIN. You might get the percentage back that you paid and you may need to get the coolant conditioner added. The Rep. should be able to check your VIN next week - or you can check it yourself if you have a My.Subaru.com site.

    You may want to wait until Wednesday or Thursday next week because volume on the phones will be high on Tuesday (the first day after a holiday).

    Thanks - I hope it works out for you!

    Patti (Subaru Team)
  • pattipcpattipc Member Posts: 53
    for the rotation recommendation - I just can't recall it at the moment. I'll check and post or some of the other Subaru whizzes here will probably provide the answer before I can check back in.

    I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

    Thanks for your patience!

    Patti
  • glenfordglenford Member Posts: 138
    1996 Legacy LSi Wagon. Since September of last year, I have....
    9/8 CEL - replace coil and wires $409
    12/8 Complete loss of power on a hill - NTF
    12/17 CEL - Fuel induction service $100
    1/12 CEL - Idle Air Control Valve $125
    1/19 CEL - Valve replacement $600 (@ 1/2 price)
    2/3 Alternator and battery $257

    The car spent days between 12/8 and 12/17 in the shop, and all except one day in the shop between 1/12 and 1/19. Car has 99K miles, was bought new by me and always serviced at our local Subaru dealer. All of this trouble happened over less than 4000 miles. From the first CEL to now, every time we brought it in they fixed something, but we got rough running and another CEL pretty quickly. That means one of two things to me - either they are fixing the wrong things, or EVERY time I take it in there are two things wrong - the one they fixed and the one they still haven't. Car is running fine since last rcvd (fingers crossed here), but I spent about $2K on it in the last 12 months. I should have bought a new car (and not a Subaru, based on this). My confidence in the dealer is now very low. I suspect they screwed something up in the valve service (requires engine removal, according to them) that destroyed the alternator. Is this car waiting to massively fail, and should I sell now while it's running? I expected to get lots more miles out of it than this with better reliability. Our 95 Honda had no unscheduled maintenance over its lifetime. Any thoughts?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I get the impression your mechanic is taking the gorilla approach (just keep replacing different parts at your expense) without properly diagnosing the problem. This is certainly uncharacteristic for a Subaru of this mileage.

    Was there any significant problem associated with the first event other than a CEL? Because a CEL by itself is no reason to replace the coil pack and wires -- you'd have to be experiencing a rough engine and/or loss of power (possibly intermittant) before going in that direction. On the other end of the list, the car would have to be blowing smoke and/or burning oil before I'd go for a valve job.

    I suspect there's something wrong that they have not properly diagnosed, and it's unfortunate you have to fund their research! This is a case where I would not blame Subaru, but would instead have issues with the dealer.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Tim,

    Kind of sounds like my '93 Toyota. Ran virtually trouble free for 85k miles until '01, then cost me $2.5k in a likewise narrow window for a variety of problems. How do you predict what will come next? The 'problems Gods' might be satisfied, and you might run for another year or two and recoup the outlay, or there might be another headache waiting for you around the corner.

    If you liked the car otherwise but are beginning to feel uneasy about it, then it is time to trade towards another Subaru while it still has some value.

    Steve
  • glenfordglenford Member Posts: 138
    Thanks to you both for the feedback - perhaps we'll also see others with similar experience come out in time.

    The first CEL svc writeup says "MIL perform select monitor code for misfire test" & "System needs coil and wires". Not a lot of info there to me. I can't recall if it ran rough, but it probably did for a moment (at this point I didn't realize it was the start of a string of problems). For the last one, it ran rough for 1/2 mile, then cleared - svc says "Exhaust valves not seating properly due to carbon."

    We also had oil pump seals done at 47K and 65K miles, and leaking valve cover gaskets at 73K.

    I do think the dealer represents Subaru, though - they are my point of contact. In Glenford (my town) it's the difference between 20 minutes and 35 minutes to go to the next nearest dealer - but that might be a good investment.

    As to trading for another Subaru - I looked at new "B"-six models a year ago when I bought a used RX300. (Also drove Murano, Passat, A4, CRV...) Subaru was too much money for not enough value above the 4 for me. Plus, with a service history like this, my brand loyalty is not high. But you put your finger on the heart of it - get out now while it's running well, or hang on and hope? Tim
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    that you open a case with us at 1-800-SUBARU3. Or, the better option - please send us a letter and include all of the RO's that you have (including the maintenance history). Please make sure you supply the VIN and the name of the dealer that services the vehicle. I can't handle the case directly, but please add a note to the letter advising the Rep. that I (Patti Mickel) would like to review the file. We'll see what we can do to keep you as a Subaru customer. I hope you give us a chance.

    Patti
  • glenfordglenford Member Posts: 138
    Patti - thanks for the concern. What address would I send it to? The 800# is closed today for the natl holiday. Tim
  • aline7aline7 Member Posts: 3
    I HAVE A 2002 LEGACY GT WAGON. WE HAVE NOTICED A RATTLE THAT SEEMS TO BE COMING FROM THE MIDDLE SEAT BELT IN THE CEILING. HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THIS?
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    It is:

    Customer Dealer Services
    Subaru of America, Inc.
    P. O. Box 6000
    Cherry Hill, NJ 08034
    Attn: Lana

    Lana handles most of our correspondence and she reports to me. If you address it to her, I know I'll get a chance to review the letter and docs. Just let her know that you are sending it to her at my request.

    Thanks! I appreciate the opportunity.

    Patti
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I have an 03 Outback, and this happens every once in a while. Try retracting the belt, then check that the buckle is clipped back into the ceiling holder correctly.
  • aline7aline7 Member Posts: 3
    Thank you Rob I will see if that works
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yeah, I would suggest making sure the buckle is properly tucked in. It's a pretty clever stowage design, and you can tell it's intended to prevent rattles. There may be instructions in the manual if it's not clear how to tuck everything in.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Glen: sounds like you've had more than your share of issues.

    The battery is a wear and tear item, you're lucky to get 5+ years out of one IMO.

    Also, $2000 sounds like a lot, but look at it this way - it's 5 car payments. If it stretched the life of the vehicle more than 5 months (which it did) then you still come out ahead by waiting.

    -juice
  • glenfordglenford Member Posts: 138
    Patti - sent a history to SOA today. Thanks. Tim
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
  • firstovfirstov Member Posts: 31
    when I turned climate control to Auto it was about 20F outside. I've heard AC kicked in with nasty noise for a first second and then stayed on.
    Is AC supposed to be running when it's that cold?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Instead of using the defrost position, put it in the split floor/defrost one. That won't kick on the A/C.

    I think they do it to remove moisture from the air, i.e. dehumidify. But I didn't think it was supposed to come under when it's below 35.

    -juice
  • lleblanc1lleblanc1 Member Posts: 1
    I am going nuts trying to get this dope -- hoping someone here can help! I am disabled and cannot run aroujnd as easily as before; cramps my ability to visit dealer.
    Both my outside mirrors are damaged; I have 1998 OB with the power, non-heated, black solid mount. What I want to do is get replacements that will fit but are FOLDABLE (yes I know about the potential wind noise prob). So I have 2 questions:
    (1) In 1995 Sub apparently still offered folding power mirrors on at least some Legacy models, maybe OB also. Will these fit the 1996-1999 cars? Some 3d party suppliers offer the 1995 replacements but not after that.
    (2) The latest (2000 and newer) folding mirrors are nicer, larger. The outside mounting is different shape, tho' (door sheet metal looks the same except for one small part), but I can't tell if perhaps these new mirrors might also fit the 1995-1999 models, the triple screw mount positions seem the same; maybe some insulation might have to be added.
    Would very much appreciate input from someone who knows for sure.
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    I have a 2003 OBW with 6K miles and am experiencing looseness in the accelerator pedal. The pedal feels very spongy during the first portion of its travel (almost an inch) and you can hear a distinct creaking noise. Once I press the pedal far enough down so that the car begins to accelerate, the pedal feels normal and firm and doesn't make any noises.

    Basically there is too much play in the pedal until throttle is applied. Does this sound like something that requires immediate attention or can I wait until I bring my car for its usual service in about a month?

    Brian
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