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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Haven't done much on the throttle unit itself since my old Datsun 810, so doing this from memory. On EFI systems, the throttle plate is pretty much closed at idle. At this point an alternate air intake path is used (IACV) that employs a fine metering system for the control of idle speed and mixture determination.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I am up for it - just need to pick a lunchtime when it is not raining!!! I am kind of bounded by meetings around lunchtime for the next few days. How about Monday or Tuesday of next week (6/10 or 6/11)?

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    mike: I'd replace, not clean, the fuel filter, and check the tires (rotate & balance). Then I'd check the alignment.

    I've seen 16-33 mpg, but yours is way out of whack.

    -juice
  • mikebombmikebomb Member Posts: 2
    Can the fuel filter really make that much difference in the mileage? Is it not more likely something else is wrong, like a busted sensor or something that the computer could help find? The dealer did not even bother checking the computer, to the best of my knowledge.
  • postmodernpostmodern Member Posts: 38
    SueBee is available either day, but Tuesday would probably be the better choice for me -- Monday is always a catch up day after the weekend.

    I didn't get the entire mirror assembly, just the replacement kit. It includes the mirror, a self-stick heating element, the hard plastic backing, 1 screw, a spring(!), a white swivel-type spacer(?), and 3 sticky pads. Should be fun. At least the old mirror is still mostly intact so it can act as an assembly guide. What's your preference for lunch?

    Lyn
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Tuesday is good for me. I just put it on my calendar, titled: "Mirror & Lunch w/Lyn".

    Are you packing a picnic lunch, or should we hit the Caf first???

    Steve
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Tuesday might work. I have an appt to get my OB ECU reprogrammed and front rotors replaced/turned that morning while I wait. This might impact me having lunch at all! Lets plan it and I will do my best to be there.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get pics of the Subies next to each other. :-)

    -juice
  • leea4leea4 Member Posts: 11
    please bring back the old format, this one seems very unfriendly !!!!!!
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    If Greg can make it, that would be 3 OBW's together! Our own car club.... Have to remember to bring the digicam. If we come up with anything interesting on the mirror, I will try and shoot some pics.

    Steve
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    You do have the option to view Town Hall the old way. Read our Getting Started At Town Hall message for details. Hope this is helpful.

    Revka
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    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • tshin99tshin99 Member Posts: 15
    Hey, I've had my Bean '02 for 4 months and noticed in the last couple of months that there was a this high whining noise that the car would make every once in a while. Sounds kinda like Chewbacca talking (but not as loud). I'm pretty sure it's not related to the engine or braking as it sounds at what seems to be completely random times.

    I did a test yesterday and after turning off the Auto Climate control, I didn't hear it anymore. Could this possible be the air compressor? I want to bring it in to the dealership for them to take a look at and I'd like to have something a little more solid to report since I'd can't make the sound happen on command. Anyone have a problem like this and have a more specific diagnosis?

    Thanks,
    Tom
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Sounds like Chewbacca talking?
    Did you look around you? It could have been Heather and her GT coming up fast on you. :-D

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Your car is a Jedi Knight, and it's using the force...

    Sorry, got a little carried away there. A high pitched whine? Maybe some metal is loose and vibrating to a frequency that makes it hum, like a tuning fork. Check the exhaust heat shields by hand (make sure they are cold) to see if any are loose. Also make sure the hood latches securely.

    A Phase I engine with the silencer removed sort of hums at a high frequency, so I have Chewy under my hood too! ;-)

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tom-
    I do believe it is the AC compressor as you've suspected.
    The AC compressor in my '99 OBS does that too.
    Would sound kinda like "Wow... whoot". Come to think of it, does sound like Chewbacca.
    Is it normal? I like to say that it isn't cause my '98 OB doesn't. I haven't gotten the AC compressor looked into yet. I should with Summer around the bend.

    -Dave
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    After installing my new tires, on my way home, I noticed a very, very slight whinning noise. It occurred between 60 and 75 and came and went with throttle motion. I thought, possible diffy noise? After getting home, removing and retorqueing the wheels (OCD) and inflating the tires from the 29/30PSI to 35 PSI all the way around the noise seems to have stopped.

    Greg
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Greg,

    Some axle whine is apparently normal with our AWD drivetrains. Were the tires inflated to the same pressures?

    Ken
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    some tires just whine! found that out with my arctic alpins!
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Wow, a couple of seriously flawed mechanic's advice items here.

    JWC - the intermittent bucking has absolutely nothing to do with the engine's valves and a valve job will do absolutely nothing for it. Please kindly tell your trusted family mechanic that you'll go elsewhere. Take it to a mechanic that can pull the codes. This means someone who has electronic equipment that can be hooked up to the OBD II system that your vehicle has on it. Subaru dealers definitely have it, an independent Subaru mechanic (cheaper) will often have it - call to find out. The check engine light coming on means the OBD system has stored the error code. DO NOT DISCONNECT THE BATTERY as was recommended above. This will delete the error code and you'll have to drive until it happens again to get the code into the memory. I suspect it will be an issue with the engine computer - likely a bad ground or loose connection. Possibly a fuel pump. Out of curiousity, when this happens try flooring the accelerator (be sure it is safe to do so) for a couple seconds and tell me if it smooths out while the accelerator is pressed.

    The person above with the 11.5MPG (I do better with a 5300lb full time 4WD LandCruiser) got another nice line of malarky. The fuel filter is not cleanable (what a load of $%##). It is simply replaced on this vehicle and all vehicles built since around 1950. Replacing it will not change your MPG a bit unless your engine was running horribly. You did not mention any poor operating issues and at that low mileage on the vehicle, you'd have to be fueling up in sandstorms every day to get so much crud in it. As someone else mentioned, the dealer should have checked the OBD II codes to see if something was amiss. That they did not even bother to do this tells me something about the dealer. The alignment issue was a good one to check, though the tires would be showing excessive wear to be generating this much drag. You should take the car in and be ready to ask some meaningful questions and expect some real answers.

    Regards,

    IdahoDoug
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    It is lesser known, but overly tight lugnuts on disk brakes are also a major cause of warped rotors. In today's world of air wrenches and speedy appointment demands, it is rare indeed that proper procedures for torquing lug nuts are followed.

    By over tightening them, the lug nuts put the rotor under tension. Add a little heat from a couple hard stops and the rotor gives a bit. Next time a bit more. Then the rotor is getting different pad pressure at various points around the surface, which is simply another way of saying it gets unevenly heated. More encouragement to warp.

    This is not unique to Subarus - it is an issue with any disc brake vehicle. The solution is to request that any time the wheels are removed that the mechanic hand tighten the lugnuts with a torque wrench to the proper torque. Get this put on the work order in writing, and have the proper torque setting written on the work order as well. Don't be put off by a service writer who says "Ma'am, we have calibrated air wrenches, blah blah" That is baloney and he's just trying to shave the extra 10 minutes it would take to do it right by hand. He also knows full well who pays if the rotors get warped - you do. What a coincidence that you'll be back in for more service if he does not properly torque things, eh?

    Turning the rotors is not a good solution generally. This thins them out taking tens of thousands of miles of use out of them along with the metal ground off. Then the thinner rotors are even more easily warped next time around. Next time you make a pizza at home, toss the hot pizza pan in the sink and give it a shot of water. Note how it twists and warps until it cools. If it were thick this wouldn't happen as easily. Generally, the cost of removing a rotor, removing the wheel bearings therein, machining the rotor, putting the wheel bearings back in and repacking them, and reinstalling the whole rotor assembly brings the total cost of the job up to the point it may make sense to simply have new rotors installed. The newly thinned rotors will likely have you back in for a repeat performance with pulsing brakes, but fresh rotors with properly torqued wheels might last 50,000 trouble free miles or more if you're diligent about proper hand tightening of the wheels. Believe me, you'll have to be diligent about this for tire rotations, etc. And some garages will often take your wheels off while it's in for service without telling you for a "free brake inspection" in hopes of selling you something new. Of course the wheels again get slammed back on with an air wrench. Part of the slamming is due to the US's litigation environment - nobody wants to get sued over a wheel falling off so they overtighten everything and you pay the price for warped rotors.

    I suggest you call the dealer and a couple of tire shops to ask the correct torque setting. Then copy this figure down on the cover of your owner's manual so you can refer to it when having someone fill out a work order that may involve removing the wheels. It will be expressed as "XX ft-lbs" which is a universal measure of tightness for bolts. Be ready to tell them whether you have steel wheels, or aluminum wheels when trying to get the correct figure as they often have different torque settings for each type wheel. The multiple sources is so you can cross check as tire shops frequently have it wrong and dealerships often pull a number out of the air. This way, you'll be alerted that something is not right.

    Here in beautiful N. Idaho, most people use steel studded snow tires all winter. As a result, our wheels get removed twice a year (once in the fall, once in the spring) along with any other maintenance removals. As a result, there is high awareness of this problem and all our shops will gladly hand torque the wheels on. I have lived all over the US and in every other place I get the blank stare when asking for this.

    FYI, I recently replaced the original brake rotors at 105,000 miles on one of our cars. I am on an internet list for that model as well and other owners on the list typically get only 30,000 miles out of their rotors. See a pattern here?

    Regards,

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    On subarus, at leat my XT6 and my Trooper rears you don't need to remove the bearings.

    As for torque settings it is listed in the owner's manual what torque settings to use for each vehicle.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Greg - there is such a thing as a free lunch! You missed out on a good time, my friend...

    Anyhow, Lyn (postmodern) and I met for mirror repair and lunch yesterday, and surgery was successful.

    To recap, Lyn had an altercation with a utility pole and smashed the RHS glass. But there was no damage to the ABS plastic shell, or to the guts. She got a 'repair kit' from one of the local dealers that included the mirror, a self-stick heating element (all weather prep), the hard plastic backing, 3 sticky pads and pivot/mounting hardware. I think she said about $30 vs $150 for the whole assembly. Good deal.....

    We carefully pulled the smashed but intact glass w/heater off of the backing plate & disconnected the two wires. We used this as a template to put the new mylar adhesive heater onto the new glass, added the sticky tapes, reattached the wires, then with 4 hands, worked it back into the backing plate. This was by far the most difficult part. Luckily it was almost 90'F outside, so the backing (which laps around the glass - you see it as a narrow frame when in place) was somewhat flexible. I don't think we could have gotten it seated on a cold day. I used a curved carpet tack puller to hook behind the backer and nurse it forward while we worked the glass and frame edge.

    I took a few pictures, but think this tells the story. Lyn's car is virtually identical to mine ('02 base OBW, Timberline green), so they looked like twins together.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet, so you came over to help out?

    You get a Golden Subaru Crew Medal of Unselfish Service! :-)

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    as Lyn had held out the offer of a tailgate lunch to all that showed up!

    I learned something new, and we had a good time.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well in that case she gets a Subaru Crew Award for Red Carpet Hosting. ;-)

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I missed it. I apologized on another board so I won't cross post. I owe you two a "free service day".

    Greg
  • postmodernpostmodern Member Posts: 38
    To chime in, yesterday's lunch was a good time for a club meeting and SueBee is now as good as new thanks to Steve. The RH heated mirror replacement kit is an official Subaru part, but only the parts person at Rushneck Subaru in Tarrytown found it in the parts catalog. The kit is $30 vs. $150 list (plus $?? installation) for the entire assembly -- it's definitely the way to go if the housing and innards are still good. A warm day or a heated garage is a must for easy installation.

    It really was surreal to see 2 almost identical OBWs parked together, complete with an EZPass mounted in the same place on the windshield! The only thing missing was Greg...

    Speaking of Greg, it sounds like you had a positive service experience at Colonial. I think I'll give them a call when SueBee is due for her 15K service. I've only had her for 6 months and already the odometer is in 5 digits. Mileage passes quickly when the driving's fun!

    Lyn
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    It's good to hear about "crew" members helping each other out. 8~)
  • lanicowlanicow Member Posts: 3
    hi,
    whenever I get out of my subie and touch anything metal (or my wife) i get a huge static shock.

    it seems to be coming from the seat (no seat covers) becuz I touched the metal portion of the car from the driver's seat and i wasn't shocked but when I got out and then touched the car...ZAP!

    any ideas on how to eliminate this?

    I've never had this pbm on any other cars I've owned in the past, or even other peoples cars.

    thanks in advance!

    lanicow
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I might have a coupon for 10 or 15% off of 15K/30K service if you are interested.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think someone mentioned holding the A-pillar as you get out, to ground yourself.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think it was Colin who first suggested the A-pillar trick.

    The static isn't caused by the seats, but by the tires. Basically, the rolling action of the tires on pavement builds up a charge on the entire car (including yourself).

    If you step out of the car, you ground yourself and by touching the metal on the vehicle -- zap! -- the charge goes through your hand through you to ground.

    By holding on to some metal part of the car while stepping out, you don't get the charge jumping between the car and your hand.

    Ken
  • donekodoneko Member Posts: 4
    I purchased a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback Limited couple of months ago. The

    previous owner poured some coke in the dashboard, so all the climate control

    keys are sticky. I'd like to remove them as well as the CD player in order

    to clean them. This is how far I got (I removed the cup holders):


    http://www.qqriq.com/Pics/subaru_radio.jpg


    How should I remove the fake wood panels? I tried to force them but I'm

    afraid to break them.


    Thanks for your help!

  • anechayevanechayev Member Posts: 1
    Hello,

    I was wondering if anybody can help me with my problem. I'm driving 2000 Subary Legacy, and during hot days it sometimes stalls when at traffic lights or whenever I have to stop for longer than couple seconds. Unfortunately it doesn't happen all the time, but I did notice that it almost never happens when it is not hot outside. It happens both when conditioner is on and off (in this case the fan is still on)

    I was watching tachometer, and what happens is that usually the compressor kicks in when it falls down to about 500 RPM, so usually it is above this mark. However, for some reason it doesn't always happen, and when it doesn't, it falls to 500 RPM, the car starts shaking for couple seconds and stalls after that.

    Since it is still on warranty, I went to the local dealer but he could not reproduce the problem and had no idea about what's going on.

    Maybe somebody can give me a hint of possible causes? Or maybe somebody had such problem and was able to fix it?

    Thanks, Andrew
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    idle speed for 2000 Legacy is 650 rpm MT and 700 rpm AT in park/neutral. Is it dropping down to 500 rpm from this range?

    The idle rpms increase on my 2000 Legacy when the AC is switched on. I believe this is intentional to handle the higher load.

    With the high fuel pressure of injected engines, it wouldn't be vapor lock would it?
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I've always noted that the camber on the rear wheels of my 98 Legacy GT is very pronounced and I had it checked at 30K as I had noticed my winter tires wearing out quicker on the inner side. They were supposedly in spec. I just noticed this weekend that my summer tires were bald on the inner side on the rear tires (65K now).They were feathered but nowhere near bald just 3months ago when I changed over from the winter ones!

    Real pain, I had only gotten them in the summer of 00. They have half decent tread on the outer side (at least 6/32) and the front ones are a little better still though they are feathered somewhat too.

    Anyway, quick trip to NTB today and they adjust the alignment, the camber was again "within spec" but the toe was way out on the rears. Why would this make the the whole inner tread go bald?? Is it just accentuating the marked camber effect?

    Ended up swapping my 16in GT wheels/tires for the stock 16 in WRX ones I had taken off when I upgraded to 17 in wheels on the WRX. Those wheels look much, much nicer on the Legacy than on the WRX! I will use the GT wheels as my winter wheels on the WRX now! Does anyone know if there are rubbing problems with putting 215/55/16 tires on a 98 Legacy? I would like to change to that size when I ditch the RE92s.

    I had thought that non directional tires by being able to go on either side of the car would have less problems with this feathering but it really makes no differnce unless you remount them and turn them over on the wheel! Duh!
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    If you can SEE that the rears are leaning in at the top (positive camber), then I'd say they are not within spec. Personally, I would ask to see the figures they got when they checked the rear alignment and I'd hope they weren't just eyeballing it. I say that because few dealers have an alignment machine. If they don't find one that does and ask for the printout - all alignment machines can do a printout and I've never had one done without a tech handing me the sheet.

    Also, if the toe can be adjusted, but the camber cannot (likely, BTW), I'd be curious if you were not just tossed a red herring.

    As to toe out wearing the tires like that - yes it will do precisely that. In the absence of your camber comment I'd have accepted this explanation, but given that you can see the rear tires are leaned in at the top (vehicle unladen, of course) I'd check a bit further.

    This must have wreaked havoc with your handling, and especially winter traction, BTW. With the rears fighting each other they were constantly slipping a bit and never really giving you full traction. Wonder how long it's been going on?

    Rgds,
    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Doug, I think in:

    If you can SEE that the rears are leaning in at the top (positive camber), then I'd say they are not within spec you meant to say negative camber. Negative camber will be tiled in at the tops and wear the inner shoulder of the tires. My XT6 has positive camber in the front and is sticking out on the tops and wears my outter shoulder.

    -mike
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Mike - you're correct, pardon the confusion. I often do the same with wheel offset (pos, neg, etc). Fortunately for all, I've mastered positive and negative on the battery......

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I wouldn't know the difference except I'm fighting with my XT6 Postive camber problems currently! :(

    -mike
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Mike,

    How / when did the camber problems start?

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's cause I'm running 2.5RS front struts on the XT6. I need to get some camber bolts for it so I can adjust the camber. The XT6 originally had an air suspension w/o any camber adjustments on it. I just need to find the correct diameter camber bolt for it.

    -mike
  • jcy02objcy02ob Member Posts: 16
    I've had my car for about a month now, a 2002 OB AT base model. From the first mile, I've noticed a whine/whistle noise. Its not related to accelerator inputs nor do I think its the divetrain. I've used painters' tape to mask off and seal every gap and crevice that I could think of but have not been able to isolate or get rid of the noise. I know its not the mirors, crossbars or window seals. Whats funny is that neither the service manager nor mechanic at my dealer could hear what I was talking about, but believe me, its there. I owned a 2000 OB Ltd with the Firestone tires and had no such noise. I'm guessing the tires because I've eliminated all else that I can think of. The dealer has agreed to swap out tires for a test run to satisfy my curiosity. My fingers are crossed because it really takes away my enjoyment from an otherwise great car. Anyone feel their Bridgestone Potenzas make a whistle whine noise, especially in the 60-70 mph range???
  • eric102eric102 Member Posts: 122
    I have the same car and tires. No whistle/whine that I can hear. Sometimes on a very smooth road (new pavement) I can here a slight whine that I would consider a normal drive train sound. Probably the AWD system. Sounds like you have something else going on.

    Eric
  • emmalineemmaline Member Posts: 27
    I've also heard a persistent whistle/whine in my 2002 Legacy wagon. I first recall it happening when the car was fairly new, and now (at just over 5000 mi) hear it pretty consistently. Will check, but think it happens at just about any MPH. Seems to come from the right passenger side. It is very noticeable and annoying. (My car has Potenze RE92 tires.) Two Subaru technicians noted a "wheel (?)noise" when I had my car in to be checked. Have just noticed that my brakes are "squeaking" occasionally. It's a sound I used to hear when I had driven a car through water, but haven't done that with my Legacy, so wonder what is causing brakes to squeak this early on. Emma
  • idahonateidahonate Member Posts: 1
    I need to change out the belts on my '96 Legacy Outback 2.5l. I have three questions regarding the timing belt changeout procedure. First, given that the spark plugs are so difficult to get to on this engine, does anyone know what type/brand of compression gauge I can use to successfully find TDC? Secondly, I am wondering about the tool needed to hold the crankshaft sprocket to remove its bolt. I have a part number of ST499977000, but I sure don't want to buy the tool from a dealer. Any suggestions? Thirdly, but perhaps most importantly, I am hearing a dry bearing sound from the area of the drivebelt pulleys. I tried using a section of hose to pinpoint the noise, to no avail. Is there a particular bearing in this vicinity that would start to fail (car has 113,000 mi)? I thought of the water pump, but have already replaced it previously. I appreciate any insights, suggestions, et cetera. Nate
  • eric102eric102 Member Posts: 122
    A bad alternator bearing will make a grinding sound.

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    James: tires are cheap, I wouldn't let that ruin an ownership experience even if it is the tires.

    Maybe Bridgestone will give you pro-rated refund, or credit towards some S-03s?

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Try changing the pressures in your tires. Don't know what you are running now, but try 35PSI. Maybe you can hear a change which would indicate it definitely is the tires. You can also try rotating them and see if the sound changes.

    Greg
  • jcy02objcy02ob Member Posts: 16
    Thanks for your suggestion. Tried the pressure already at 36 psi per another poster and had the tires rotated at the tire dealer with no difference. Whats pointing me toward the tires is that when I'm on a straight road and jerk the steering wheel, the pitch of the noise changes and then goes back to the usual pitch when I straighten out. I can duplicate this every time. I think the dealer thinks I'm nuts, but guess what, they don't live with the car every day. Perhaps my ears are just sensitive to that particular range of sound. I've already got my next set of tires picked out-the Dunlop Sport SP A2's. Will report my findings after the tire swap on Thursday. Again, thanks and to ateixeira as well for the positive feedback!
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