Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

curtb · August 2005

My three week old outback has failed to crank when attempting to start on four separate occasions.Eventually-- after 4-5 tries--it turns over. Anyone else having this problem?

sidman · August 2005

The Glove Box on my 2005 Outback XT Limited keeps falling open. I will just take it back over to the dealer for a warranty fix, but I was curious if anyone else had seen this. It looks like the latch does not seem to secure tightly. Kind of annoying in a brand new car...I've been spoiled by Honda and Nissan, I hope little things like this are not the norm.

Sid

ateixeira · August 2005

See if you can lube the lock mechanism. It's not a common complaint, at least I haven't heard it before.

05 - gotta be a bad starter. I'd have the dealer look at it before you get stranded somewhere.

-juice

docthrock · August 2005

Anyone having a problem with their XT smelling of burnt something? I've even seen SMOKE (not mist) coming through the vent once. I took the car to the dealership about 2 hours away, and they couldn't find anything wrong.

The smell is terrible. I had to drive with all the windows and the top open and the AC unit completely off. I couldn't even hardly SEE, the sensation was so bad.

rsholland · August 2005

It's that bad and the dealer didn't notice it? I'd go to another dealer.

Does it happen all the time, or only under certain conditions? If under certain conditions, what are they? I ask that only because the dealer didn't notice the smell. Maybe it didn't occur while they had it, and that it's an intermittent smell that occurs only sometimes?

Bob

ateixeira · August 2005

The only thing I can think of that smells *that* bad is gear oil. I wonder if they spilled some on hot exhaust components, and it's slowly burning off.

Inspect the engine bay from the top and from the bottom, see if you can spot any oil stains or signs of a leak somewhere. Some car washes can wash the undercarriage for you. I use a pressure washer on mine.

-juice

sweet_subie · August 2005

I have an XT ltd with 3k miles, runs perfectly. no smell.

are you pushing the new car to high RPMs ? if you are, then the car is not to blame.

ron10987 · August 2005

My 2001 Outback suffers from the infamous head gasket and overheating problem. Because I have not found any vehicle that I really like, even though I have 160K miles on the car, I am keeping it for the time being. Unfortunately, this means driving in hot summer weather with the AC off, since the engine already overheats badly and the car would die if I added the AC to the power draw. After looking at the prices and problems of Audi and Volvo, and needing another AWD wagon, I'm back to thinking about getting another Ru. Some claim Subaru has fixed the head gasket and overheating problem on the newer models (it generally does not show up until about 100K in any case). But I can't find anyone to tell me HOW this problem has been fixed. Anybody know?

curtb · August 2005

I had this, too, when I first picked up the car. Service adjusted the latch and now it's better. Doesn't fall open, but must be slammed to keep it shut. Will get it adjusted again next time in service.

kens · August 2005

Sid,

I haven't heard of that happening with other OBs and Legacys. Definetly have the dealer look at it.

FWIW, I've really had no fit and finish issues with my Legacy GT wagon. And I'm super picky about things like that.

Ken

ateixeira · August 2005

They used a new head gasket material for 2002 and later models.

Replacing earlier gaskets fixed the issue so long as the heads were not warped.

We haven't observed any pattern of failures for 2002+, even hi-milers, so they seem to have put the issue to bed.

160k? Wow, do you ever park?

-juice

sugardog · August 2005

Please refer to previous posts about rear diffy failure. (from sugardog)
1999 Outback Limited with Manual 5sp tranny.
Drivetrain noise again, dealer overhauled the center diffy to solve the problem,
done under the dealer warrantee of 12mo 12k miles since they worked on the
same area last year.
Last year they overhauled the tranny mainshaft, replaced the viscous coupling,
and replaced the rear diffy, all under warrantee.
Cause of that problem was viscous coupling failure, which caused the tranny mainshaft and rear diffy to wear out prematurely.
Now this problem.
I had no problems until a year after I retired. Since retirement, I only drive about
200 miles a month. The car sits for days, sometimes weeks.
Is the problem due to lack of use?
Should I replace the tranny fluid with synthetic gear oil?
I know that some Subaru Reps. monitor this forum, please answer my questions
if you can.

Thanks,
Sam.

ron10987 · August 2005

juice,

Obrigado.

ron

halrandy · August 2005

I just brought my 2000 Outback with 50K miles to the dealer due to some problems that seemed related to the transmission. Hesitation, srange noises. I was told that I needed a new transmission as one of the internal seals leaked. There was absolutely no leakage on the floor of my garage so it seems strange.

This is my first automatic but it still seems that 50K miles is not very good. The dealer was able to get Subaru-America to pay for 70%, but it still comes to ~$1200 out of my pocket.

halrandy
Bainbridge Island, WA

ateixeira · August 2005

That's almost 6 years old, I think they offered good will in paying for that much of it.

Was the ATF still original? Or did you have it flushed at 30k miles?

-juice

dcalkins · August 2005

Is there anyway for an owner to reset the tire pressure monitor on an '05 Outback 3.0R sedan? (Toyota has a push button and makes it easy - Subaru seems to want us to go to the dealer for everything).

Any ideas on how to adjust the alignment of the driving lights?

Any good web sites for other helpful hints (again, Toyota lets us reset the check engine light after an oil change but we have to go to the Edmunds forum to find out how.)

Thanks,

Dave
dcalkins75080@yahoo.com

fibber2 · August 2005

Way behind in my reading, Doug. My understanding (and limited experience with an O2 sensor problem on my '02) is that the light will remain on until the 4th full drive cycle after the repair is made (or no more repeats from an intermittant bad sensor), but the codes and 'snapshot' freeze frame data remains for 40 drive cycles until it all clears out. And because you had multiple systems indicating failures, it is possible that you had 'pending codes' that don't set hard fail flags, but can impact the readiness status.

With a scanner you can clear it all out on demand, but as Brian said, you will not reset all of the readiness indicators. You should also be able to clear the codes by disconnecting the battery. Perhaps you did not wait long enough. Next time step on the brake or something like that to draw down any reserves used in the 'keep alive' ckt (probably a large capacitor) of the ECU. Before I bought my own laptop based system (AutoEnginuity), I asked the folks at Autozone for help. They were willing to clear codes on request.

A recent Subaru dealer bulletin listed this procedure for resetting readiness:
1997 and later: Drive on flat road (highway) at approximately 50 to 55 mph for 30 minutes for warm-up.Then perform 10 minutes at steady speed (without any throttle angle change) at 50-60 mph.

Steve

fibber2 · August 2005

I had the front O2 sensor changed on my '02 OBW (33k miles) two weeks ago under the Gold Plan extended warranty (zero $ deductible). I am out of the 3yr warranty. The charge to SoA was around $200 for diagnosis, part and labor. I asked what it would have cost me had I not had an extended plan. Answer was slightly under $400, so your quote of $385 is right in line.

My 6 yr / 85k mile / $0 ded plan cost me $799 two years ago from a Subaru internet site, so I guess that I am now half way to the break even point.

Steve

doug900 · August 2005

Thanks for the reply steve, but autozone said that they will not clear the codes because of liability, or some hogwash. I did disconnect the battery, and then turned the ignition key to the start position to bleed any residual ecu power, but the CELight came right back on, so I wonder if another problem developed? My wife has put over 300 miles on since the repairs , but still a CELight.

This weekend, I check resistance on the O2 sensor heater wires at the engine end, for both sensors. I got 5 ohms on both, so I know I have good heaters, and continuity to both sensors,for the heaters. Plus, the sensor wires must be good, otherwise, the car would run like crap.

The knock sensor was the third repair. That must be good, because the car had a new lease on life after I replaced that. Doug

fibber2 · August 2005

Doug, I think you need to get it read out again to see what is going on. Sounds like something else is triggering the light.

Steve

lastar · August 2005

I have a 2003 Outback Limited Wagon Automatic Transmission 4 cylinder and we are considering buying a Fold Down Camper weighing about 1,500 pounds.
Has anyone had any problems with towing creating engine or transmission issues?
Is the transmission cooler really needed?
Thanks

xwesx · August 2005

I have never towed a trailer with my OB but, for what it is worth, I have a friend who owns a Forester (not sure what year, but I think it is the last MY before the last major revision) and pulled a small UHaul trailer from Maryland to Wasilla, AK. He says the trailer weighed less than 2K and that the car pulled it "just fine," but he ended up having transmission failure about 6 months after he arrived in Alaska. It was replaced under warranty, though I am not sure it should have been!

An extra transmission cooler is never a bad idea if you are frequently towing or carrying heavy loads.

They do fine with short hops, even under heavy loads, but I wouldn't push it too hard. I towed a friend's '85 Chevy van (4500#?) about 20 miles a few years back - up and down some pretty significant hills - and it handled it just fine at 25 mph......

rsholland · August 2005

The car will tow 1500 just fine, as I believe your car is rated for 2000. Stopping is another story. Subaru says any trailer over 1000 pounds should have trailer brakes. This is for all Subarus, and most other tow vehicles too, BTW. Check your owners manual for specific info regarding towing.

Bob

lastar · August 2005

Yes, the camper has electirc brakes and that's why I am getting the Brake Controller installed.
I am more concerned with engine and/or transmission damage prematurely.

lozar · August 2005

Somebody help me make a decision. So I have a 97 Legacy Outback (2.5 Double overhead) and she's overheating. I have gotten a new thermostat. Still overheating. I was aware of the 96-99 overheating/head gasket issue but I now personally face the issue. What do I do now? Is it worth looking for an entirely new engine (2000+) or should I have my mechanic tear the engine apart to diagnose whether it is a head gasket or a cracked block. If it is a head gasket and I get it fixed, does the engine generally stay uncracked for a long time after? My car is in the shop and my mechanic is waiting on my decision. Should I have him check the head gaskets or should I just get a new engine (i am a college student and have little money to deal with the problem, whats the cheapest way to fix my Subie problem?). Please help!

xwesx · August 2005

Tough call. If you are in the situation where you will be getting it fixed one way or another and having a mechanic do the work, it may be less expensive in the short run to replace the engine. But, then you need to make sure that the engine you are receiving is of top quality or you may just face similar problems with that one down the road. You could have the mechanic diagnose the cause first before deciding on a replacement engine or a repair. Even if it is a head gasket, you could have a warped head due to the overheating and need to replace that along with the gasket replacement.

Either way you go, you're probably looking at 2-3K for a fix and possibly more on the repair depending on what else is found while in there. :surprise: Depending on the # of miles on the engine, I'd probably go with the replacement.

cptplt · August 2005

sorry to hear about your tranny problems, I am on my 3rd legacy with 110K, had over 90K on the previous 2 and never have had tranny problems. On the other hand my wife's 95 Windstar needed a new tranny at 48K and Ford wouldn't pay a penny. Our 2000 had a new one at 38K - ford obviously learn from past experience - it also took the dealer two trannies to get it to "fit" right! (this time fortunately we had the ext warranty!) but at 60K its doing some weird stuff again. The only reason we have a 00 after the experience with the 95 was that Ford gave us 4K for also having to deal with their perpetually self destructing 3.8 engines, plus they had 0.9% at the time and the only people who would give us a half decent trade in was the Ford dealer we had purchased it from!
I'm wondering what the Subaru dealer willl give me for the Windstar when I trade it for a Tribeca - probably a good laugh!

stellab · August 2005

Hi everyone. Any ideas with this would be of great help.
I have a '01 Subaru Outback 4cyl. 2.5L A/T with 93,400 and I've loved this car as you can see by how man miles are on it!
Beginning of July- my check engine light went on and I brought it in -PO136 came up so the dealer replaced the rear o2 and I thought I was good to go. When I left the dealer, car all of a sudden was sluggish on acceleration, bucking intermittently and seemed like it was going to stall out at stops (once you put the gas pedal to the floor the RPM's would rise and it would seem to cough it's way out of it) and then at times it would drive so well! I was baffled.
Got the tranny checked, all new wires, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, oil change but car was still acting funky. Then the CEL came back on. I brought it to a friend's shop this time and once again the Rear o2 sensor code came back on. He checked it out and said to could be the air idle control (b/c at standing idle car also seems like it will stall) but something def. seemed to be tripping that o2 sensor. Suggested I take it back to dealer since same code was coming up and I just paid them to diagnose and fix it. Subie said they wouldn't charge me to re diagnose since it was repeating the code. I was psyched. Some other friends thought it might be a clogged catalytic converter.
Well, my car has now sat at Subaru for 2 full days and they don't know what it is. I was told could be wiring harness or ignition something or other ( I had no issues with ignition and couldn't understand how they came up with this UNTIL yesterday when I picked my car up again- now it seems to be having a little more trouble catching). I also remembered about a month ago my radio buttons were all screwed up- volume was now CD disc switch and moving between songs was no longer possible, it turned the radio back on. I thought this was weird, but it has pretty much corrected itself most of the time. I also have been leaving the same station on though.
Needless to say, I haven't got a clue here. I'm thinking maybe all of these electrical/mechanical things are related somehow, but not sure and neither is Subaru which is scary. They keep looking into the National database and seeing which other Subaru dealers have faced similar issues and are going with what "fix" worked for them. When I asked what would happen if they replaced the wiring harness and it didn't do the trick, he said "good question". When I asked how much the harness and labor would cost, he refused to give me an answer only saying they would work with me b/c the CEL keeps coming up with the same code. I can only imagine. Anyone know a ballpark figure? ANY IDEAS??? I would really love to hear any feedback since the wiring harness comes in tomorrow and I have to bring them back my car.
-Stella

fibber2 · August 2005

Stella,

Responded to your post in "Problems".....

Steve

PF_Flyer · August 2005

For those who might want to follow over to the response Steve, here's where you put it:

fibber2, "Subaru Crew: Problems & Solutions" #5520, 16 Aug 2005 10:03 am

fibber2 · August 2005

Gee Bob,

If I knew that others would be looking at it, I would have 'wordsmithed' it a bit better! Wrote it in a hurry this morning.

Steve

temadden · August 2005

Hello,

I have the same problem w/ my '99 Legacy wagon. Began after driving at highway speeds for 45 minutes or so. Thumped on tight left or right turns (into a parking spot for example). It is now happing more frequently. My mechanic is sending me to the Subaru dealer. He thinks it may be transaxle viscous fluid, or (hopefully not) transaxle parts.

Did you get to the bottom of your problem?

Thanks,

temadden

grahampeters · August 2005

G'day

The problem may be much simpler to resolve. I had a 99OB and had dreadful thumping noise on turns for parking. Turned out to be the sway bar sticking in its joints. A short job to lube the rubber mounting points and thumps disappeared.

Cheers

Graham

lastar · August 2005

Is a transmission cooler really necessary? If yes, why doesn't Subaru sell it?
Thanks

xwesx · August 2005

I am not sure that it is necessary; I just said that it is never a bad idea if you plan to tow at or near the rated limit fairly often. It is much cheaper to spend a couple hours and one or two hundred dollars on parts to prevent you from needing to replace a tranny in the event that you push it just a little too hard.

Subaru probably doesn't sell a supplemental cooler because they do not market (nor probably encourage) Subarus to be used as tow vehicles for anything more than perhaps a personal watercraft or an ATV.

If you were set on putting one in, you could probably get a generic one, fashion some brackets for it, and mount it in front of the A/C radiator.

PF_Flyer · August 2005

If I knew that others would be looking at it, I would have 'wordsmithed' it a bit better!

Well you're always "on stage" here Steve

At least we don't make you sing at the chats! LOL

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Member to Member Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

joyride21 · August 2005

ive got a 2000 outback, when you start it up cold after at least eight hours when it is between 50-75 deg f in the morn it revs up to 3k till 160 deg eng temp. im a mechanic. i have been testing iac, nothing, i saw a bulletin from carquest saying that the computer is sensetive to the air injection to the injectors, but my car isn't setting the code like the bulletin says. any one got any ideas. im thinking i just need to reprogram the ecm

i also forgot to mention that when it does warm up the idle keeps searching between about 600-1500 rpm

thanks

xwesx · August 2005

Grr. I'm tired, annoyed, and on the verge of downright frustrated. Ran a compression test on my 1996 EJ25 (phase I) engine tonight.... but for the bleepety bleeping life of me, I cannot find specifications for "normal" compression on this engine. I swear I read it once in my Haynes manual, and they swear they printed the specs in there at the start of Chapter 2-B, but darned if I can find it anywhere within the whole bleedin' book. Someone please take pity on me and list the #s.... please? As it is, I'm down one car for at least one day and fuel is up to $2.50+.... not looking forward to a 10 mpg day..... Assuming I can get my dilapidated old camper off my truck before I collapse from exhaustion tonight. :mad:

PF_Flyer · August 2005

Tonight's chat star... fibber2 :P

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

fibber2 · August 2005

Why is everybody always picking on me?

Tonight, live from studio A...

It is OK to start without me, folks.

Steve

rob_m · August 2005

Why is everybody always picking on me?

... because you give us a lot of material to work with??? Just kidding!

Rob M.

xwesx · August 2005

Hmm. I am surprised at no responses as of yet.

Anyhow, I decided to hit the sack last night rather than try my ragged mindset on a camper removal. I arose at 4 am to attack it and then decided to attempt a temporary repair of the severed spark plug wire that was the original reason I was not going to drive the Subaru today. I ended up patching it up reasonably well so I went ahead and reinstalled all the spark plugs and put everything back together. The car started up and ran fine (as fine as before the test, anyway!).

Now I just have to find those benchmark compression numbers to see what I have......

:lemon:

zman3 · August 2005

This is not really an answer to your question and I assume you know this since you were capable of doing a compression test yourself, but....

I was always under the impression that the difference between the cylinders was a bigger deal than the compression values themselves. I don't know what the odds are of all 4 cylinders going bad are. I thought as a general rule about 165 psi and a range of +/-10% between cylinders was considered "good".

raines · August 2005

i recently bought a 94 legacy wagon 2.2 w/ approx. 150000 mi. my main concern is when you start up the engine it idles high & when you shift (automatic) into reverse or drive the engine is pulled way down as if it were a standard & you were dumping the clutch w/ the brake on. sometimes it dies. the one thing is, if you shift straight into low 1 it doesnt act as bad. if you try to drive @ a slow speed it will jerk &sputter. I drove this car for almost 2 weeks when i first bought it & it did ok. any ideas??

xwesx · August 2005

I think I would look at the vacuum system..... Not sure where you're having the problem, but it sounds like a vacuum leak, block, etc. Maybe an EGR problem?

xwesx · August 2005

Thanks, zman. I was aware of the +/- 10% rule, but not about the benchmark against which to compare all the cylinders. I mean, if it was supposed to be 205 and I was coming in at 140, even with all 4, I would consider that BAD!

As it was, I came in at: (1-4) 158, 182, 175, 170. Differential between high and low cylinders (2 and 1, respectively) was about 13%. Now, I didn't do it exactly like the book prescribed (this was the first time I had performed such a test myself; only watched it done before) on this run. The engine had been off for about 70 minutes: I pulled the plugs early on (~20 min after shutdown, 70-degree ambient temp), but burned the heck out of my hands trying to work in those close quarters, so I waited another 30 minutes before trying to install the compression hose because it was just too darned hot to hold my hand down there and snake that darned thing into the threads. I cranked it 7 times, but did NOT shut the fuel supply off - so I hear that the fuel in the cylinder can cause the #s to be thrown off a bit.

This morning, I ran the test again before putting the system back together. It was stone cold at this point with no way of heating it back up - ambient temp was 45 degrees. I also shut off fuel supply by depressing accelerator to the floor while cranking. I ended up with this: (1-4) 185, 197, 195, 188. Those were all real close, but again, the environmental variables were different.

The fact is, I am having black combustion gunk in my overflow tank that would lead me to believe I have a blown head gasket. There's no oil in it (good sign!) and no coolant in the oil. I have also been smelling coolant since, well, since a couple years ago, but I have repaired any sources of external leakage in the interim and I still smell it any time the car is running even though I do not see any visable leakage. Also, the level of the coolant has started dropping again. :mad:

I am trying to decide whether or not it is worth it to tear the engine out and replace the head gaskets before winter hits or wait until next summer (or longer!). I thought the compression test would help give me conclusive info, but it doesn't look like it to me. If I am having coolant find its way through the exhaust system, it would help explain the P0420 code that keeps my CEL on a good majority of the time, but that started long before I suspected any gasket issues (a good year or so before!).

All feedback, except anti-'96 sentiments, is welcome! :P

I think my next project is to tear into that heater fan.... at least I can continue to use the car even if I break something in there!

-Wes-

xwesx · August 2005

Oh, some more info regarding the compression test itself: The needle jumped to the pressures I mentioned on the first crank, so I do not think I have any obvious ring issues, etc., and it also seems odd that the benchmark would be 165 if I am getting semi-accurate #s on a car with 191K on it.... Not doubting that, just surprised.... Perhaps if I had done a more "by the book" job, it would have come out much lower?

Still pondering,

-Wes-

zman3 · August 2005

Wes:

Based on what little I've read, some people say ignore the pressure values and concentrate on the differences between the cylinders. Apparently pressure gauges and test methods can lead to varying absolute values, as you have seen in your two tests. I would guess that your compression is fine since the values in any one test are fairly comparable cylinder to cylinder.

However, just guessing here, I could see where everything would look good during a compression test and then go bad at full operating temps. My 98 had a head gasket leak and of course it showed up as engine overheating. When they pulled the gasket the tech commented on how little the streaks/marks were on the gasket. It looked like a small leak. It's plausible I would have seen no pressure issues if I had done a compression test, yet I did have a leak. It seems to make sense, to me at least.

Karl

xwesx · August 2005

I agree, and I am thinking along the same lines. I know I have a leak, just not how bad it is.... but it is worth fixing sooner rather than later!

Since I really would like to get another 36 months out this bugger, it is in my best interest to go ahead and replace the gaskets. After all, it is only one weekend and a few hundred $ out the window vs. possibly being without a car or having to buy some very expensive parts or having to out-n-out buy another rig..... basically a no-brainer, even for a dummy like me!

I truly appreciate the feedback. It does me well to knock heads with folks a little; tends to jar a decision out of me easier and I thank you for that! :P

stantont · August 2005

I replaced the rear shocks on my '02 Legacy wagon, and that was a major improvement. Interestingly, the shocks were not worn enough to have much effect on ride; just a slight "floaty" feel in the back. The handling had felt "loose" in the rear from the first test drive; then we bought the car and got used to it over six months. But with the new shocks, the handling on sudden swerves is dramatically better - the car has become truly a sport wagon. It also seems more stable in strong gusty crosswinds.

The rears must have been worn abnormally from carrying a lot of weight, or something, because the new rears and the original fronts seem perfectly matched; the fronts show no sign of wear.

Really love that car!

Stanton

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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