Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

tkanic · December 2005

Well it might be a plus that you are becoming a less agressive driver, but I know that's not what you wanted to hear.

The grinding noise is not normal and it does indicate a problem as well as the 'ineffective brakes'. Let me assure you that a 05 OB should be able to stop very well, leaving a lot of room between you and the deer on the road.

Do you know what wheel it is comming from? Some ideas is a hanging caliper, brake pad installed 'backwards' (metal to the rotor - yes I have seen it happen), badly scored rotors, misalligned pads and/or caliper.

stantont · December 2005

If you are a fairly aggressive driver, then my long discussion about brake bedding is not relevant: your normal driving should have set the pads up just fine. I would echo what tkanic said: have someone check pads, rotors, be sure some yoyo didn't put a pad in backward (metal to metal!?), and check functioning of the ABS system. Also check a few oddities, like inspecting tires to be sure pressures are up to normal and no exposed metal belt plies, etc. I once had a tiny stone not much bigger than a grain of sand somehow work its way into the edge of a brake pad (how???) and make horrible noises until I dug it out with a screwdriver.

You spoke of grinding on inclines, and I'm trying to figure what that means: is the noise a squeal like a metal scraping, as the wear indicators on the brake pads? That sounds a bit like fingernails on a chalkboard, BTW, if you can remember from school days. Or a buzz-like vibration in the brake pedal, as when the ABS kicks in? Or a "pulse" in the pedal as from a warped rotor (note that overtightened wheel lugs can cause this). And does it not happen on level roads? Is it dependent on the severity of the stop, or speed, or wheel turn, or what? When did this start? Did you have any work done on the wheels or tires, etc., just before that? Did you do any offroad excursions? More data might help with all the experienced Subie owners in this group.

Brakes are such a fundamental safety component that no manufacturer would dare build weak brakes. In fact, most braking systems are capable of stopping the wheels under literally any circumstance, so stopping power is determined more by tire grip and by effectiveness of the ABS if the car has one. If the brakes on your car can't do that, there is something seriously wrong, and it doesn't matter if the car is a Subaru or a Porsche.

Any decent dealer should have found this in one visit, or at most two, if it is intermittent. Maybe it is time to try another dealer. If so, check with others on this network for recommendations. What part of the country are you in?

Stanton

summer12 · December 2005

Hi, did you ever get a response/solution to this problem?
I purchased a 03 Legacy at 50,303. At 53,800, while traveling, the battery and brake lights stay on. At 55K and cold weather the lights come on at very low speeds,the headlights flicker and the engine revs. Any idea what is going on? :confuse:

tkanic · December 2005

An update.

today I drive the car, the check engine light was not on. I went on my trip and figured to repeat what I did last time to see if it reoccurs. So I stopped on my driveway on a snowy patch then tryed to get up the steep part from a stop. After some wheel spinning the ABS light came on, the Check Engine and the cruse started to blink.

Also the trip odometer shows a 'Er SS' or 'Er 55' code. What is that suppose to be? The ABS light went out on a restart, the check engine is still on.

Also does the car's OBD2 (computer) hold onto the codes so if the check engine light goes out again the dealer can find out why I get the check engine light?

xwesx · December 2005

Wow... that's baffling but the good news is that that you were able to replicate it! The OBD is supposed to hold the codes until they are reset or after what was it.... 90 cycles? So, even if the light goes out in the next couple of days, the code should still be there. Since you know you can replicate the situation that causes the light to trip, perhaps enlist the dealer's help to solve this one. I'm probably being overly optimistic here, but hey, it's Monday! A perfect time for optimism!!!! :P

xwesx · December 2005

Hmmm.... I'm not the fastest car in the garage, so I'm surprised to see this post.

I replaced the rear pads on my '96 about three months ago (first replacement with about 193K on the car!). That was the first time in my life I had worked on disc brakes, so I read through the appropriate section of my Hayne's manual, got my tools together, and set to work. From the point I jacked up the first side of the car to pull the wheel until it was back on the ground and ready to go, it was 45 minutes. I figured I could knock off a third of that time next time.

Maybe now I am being TOO optimistic!

If a DIY'er, the Haynes manual is cheap and comes in very handy for all sorts of everyday (well, periodic anyway) maintenance. I think I paid about $20 for mine back in August 2000 at a local auto parts store.

stantont · December 2005

You can also get a set of factory Subaru manuals on CD from eBay. I think mine cost about $15.

Takes up a lot less space than the book, but of course you can't take it outside and drape it over a fender while you are under the hood!

Stanton

jfl · December 2005

Haynes manuals are the best I've used. They walk you through step-by-step with photos.

A factory manual assumes that you know what you're doing and provides a not very detailed sketch.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any Haynes manuals for any Subaru's 2000 and newer.

Jim

stantont · December 2005

I ran into the same thing; that's why I got the CD factory manual for my '02 Legacy. It seems Haynes doesn't produce manuals for reliable cars like Subies, Hondas, or Toyotas until they are at least 5 years old. Being a bit anal, I wanted more info about the car than the owner's manual provided.

The factory manual provides good pictures and diagrams, but it is organized a bit randomly. I suspect the guy who sold them actually downloaded the chapters from Subaru's website, and not in any particular order.

Stanton

subaruguru · December 2005

whats the transmission problem slow or late engagement into drive you did not say? if so this would not be to replace the whole trans with a re-man but to repair it with a rebuild I have fix a few for this problem. the low rev clutch piston o ring seal is leaking causing the fluid to leak past the apply piston make sure they replace the apply piston , o ring, clutches and steels . as i Sean in the past this will make it like new one more

subaruguru · December 2005

alternator alternator would explain illumination of mystery lights.low voltage like this can cause problems in this nature to happen it would be a good idea to get this checked out (alternator) before it leaves you on the side of the road. check with Subaru some 03 Had alternator recalls

subaruguru · December 2005

stop spending your money !
the 420 code is a p0420 evap code not related to you driveability problem .
your problem comes down to the A/F (air fuel ratio sensor)
in 2000 Subaru removed the air flow meeter and went with the more accurate a/f sensor it is a hybrid o2 sensor located in the exhaust. the o2 sensor reads o2 only not unburned fuel like the a/f sensor dose!
I am sure this will make you car happy ! also it will help with fuel mileage. also stay away from the dry gas don't like it on the new cars !
If you were wondering about no check engine light for this problem it's got to due with programed parameters in to the control unit. you can buy the part from a Subaru dealer for about 130.00 it should be a in stock item

rob_m · December 2005

I agree with the alternator diagnosis. Same happened on my 96 Outback when the alternator went. Found out after the fact that there was a recall. Rob M.

rob_m · December 2005

Could be unburnt gas tripping the sensors. There have been a bunch of reports of this happening on 05/06 Legacies in LGT dot com, especially after this type of situation. Dealer can reset the ECU which will turn off the check engine light. Rob M.

subaru2002 · December 2005

I read your message and it sounds EXACTLY like my experience. I bought a 2002 Subaru Outback (new). I have the same grinding noise pulling out of my driveway (small incline). I also never liked the way these brakes stopped. I live in snow country and slid into another vehicle a couple years back. That has petrified me ever since. I now drive my husband's pickup. But, back to the grinding, they also told me "that's the way they are". I took my car back to the shop to have them checked right before my 3 year warranty was up and they replaced the whole braking system. Thank goodness I was still under warranty. Now, 8 months after my warranty expired, I need to replace the "soft plug" between the transmission and engine. The labor will cost $500.00 alone. Merry Xmas to me. I love the car in the summer, great gas mileage, but will not buy another one.

steeproad · December 2005

I just purchased a 1995 AWD Legacy, It runs nice, however, the first snow has come and it will not go at all in the snow. This is my first AWD. Only one of the front tires spins at a time, I have never had the rear tires spin at all, should they atleast spin alittle? . The tires on it are just basic. Does this sound normal....Does it need snow tires..... When the snow was slushie it did fine...but then it got really cold and like a packed powder.... My FWD car goes right up a small hill on our driveway no problem. Thanx inadvance

laughergirl · December 2005

The noise happened several times today. Always starts on an incline. It sound like fluid is moving around in the front wheels and the grinding is under my brake pedal. The pedal moves closer than it should to the floor. After this it happened I noticed it when stopping at slow speeds. Even on level ground. I never feel this when I am stopping from a fast speed. This is the weirdest thing I have ever experienced from a car.

subaruguru · December 2005

Are you sure that it is AWD not all 95's are. Take a look see if it is awd under the car is the rear diff there ? your condition is not normal. do you have a yellow fwd (front wheel drive) light on the dash ? this would explain why the awd is not working. see owners manual under spare tire install this will explain this light
Your car should fly through the snow even with poor tires
It is normal for only one tire to spin it has to due with the gearing in the diff

laughergirl · December 2005

Thanks for the input. I have always felt that these brakes were not quite right. Not as strong as one would expect. Then after several thousand miles the grimlins have really taken over. I am going to be the biggest pest my dealer has ever seen until these things are fixed. Hopefully before the warranty runs out.

steeproad · December 2005

Yes it is AWD....I checked the rear diff, and VIN. No FWD light is on in the dash either. It didn't come with a owners manual. I was hoping for the best before I took to a shop, I guess it doesn't look good. I would hate to pay alot of money for someone to fix a simple problem, but it looks more serious.

nicco2 · December 2005

There is a way to disengage the rear wheels under the hood. Its as simple as pulling a fuse or putting a fuse in i can't remember, but on my roomates old outback it was up on the firewall on the passenger side. It was meant to be used when the vehicle is being towed and what not, might want to check into that before you worry too much. I don't have any real experience with it other than seeing it down by a two truck guy when my roomates car wouldn't start.

tkanic · December 2005

Since you bought it used, perhaps the owners were trying to hide something, put in the fuse for FWD (yes you insert one for FWD, remove it for AWD) and somehow disabled the FWD light. Also I heard that some clutch can go which sends power to the rear, but the car will still think it's in AWD mode and won't alert you.

As for wheels spinning, on my driveway test - on a 05 OB - which set a trouble code BTW, I had all 4 wheels spinning with the car in place, I must say it was quite a beutiful thing.

billj3 · December 2005

I have a recent trans problem with my 97 legacy outback AWD. While driving at slow speed making tight radius turns in forward or reverse, such as while parking, the rear wheels bind up as if the breaks were applied. At normal driving speed it shifts and runs fine. After parking and turning off the key while in park there is a bit of a surge back as if the trans were still in gear and straining to move forward. This doesn't happen if I shut down in neutral. I am taking the car in to the dealer this week and would like some insight into what I might expect to hear and the cost to repair before I get there.
Thanks in advance,
Bill

xwesx · December 2005

For a 1995, it is normal for only one wheel to spin.... but on each axle. They do not have limited slip diffys. If the FWD fuse was inserted, it should illuminate a light on the dash. Just because it is not there does not mean that the fuse is not inserted, but it reduces the likelihood. The fuse tray is located, as was said, right in front of the firewall (high up in the compartment) on the passenger side - you really cannot miss it. If there is a fuse in there, pull it. If not, then you probably have a bad clutch pack or something is disconnected/broken on the driveshaft. If it was the rear diffy or a broken driveshaft, you should be hearing some not-so-pleasant noises! Rotten of a seller to do that to you, but honest people are more the exception these days..... :sick:

I'm somewhat surprised that it performs worse than a FWD car would, but hard to diagnose the exact problem at this point!

steeproad · December 2005

I checked the FWD fuse and there is not a fuse inserted....I inserted one and the FWD Light came on in the dash custer...There are no noises and the car runs excellent on pavement. The reason that it will not go is only one wheel in the front spins...the front wheels will switch spinning in the front, nothing in the back. Its sounds bad. I got burned it looks like. Thanks for all your responses...any other ideas?

xwesx · December 2005

Hmm.... well, it sounds like the front axle is operating correctly, but you definitely have a problem. My most practical thought is a bad clutch pack in the center differential, but without examining it, I could not narrow it down to that for certain. If you want an AWD car, you may need to get it checked by a mechanic.

subaruguru · December 2005

BILL !! this is a very common problem you must check a few things first
1. check all 4 tires sizes must be all the same size
example 205/65/15 not just the 15" but the rest of the size 205 and 65 must all be the same !
2. check tires with a flexible tape measure as Subaru
states no more variance the 1/4 inch I would say no more then a 1/2 inch measure circumference from the center of tire
THIS IS A IN PORTENT STEP in checking the all wheel drive system for binding
THIS MUST ME MADE SURE THAT THE CAR MEETS THE ABOVE REQURMENTS BEFORE TRANS IT SUSPECT
note ALSO IF THE CAR DOSE NOT FALL UNDER THESE GUIDE LINES BEFORE
ANY BINDING THIS MAY HAVE WELL CAUSED THE TRANS TO FAIL

More THEN LIKELY THE TRANS WILL NEED WORK EXPECT TO SPEND $1,200 TO $ 1,700
THIS IS A CLASSIC REAR EXTENSION HOUSING PROBLEM
THE TRANSFER CLUTCH SEALS (HARD TEFLON ) WERE IN TO THE
CASE CAUSING PRESSURE LOSS TO TRANSFER CLUTCH PACK
( THESE ARE THE AWD CLUTCHES ) AND WHEN THEY Don't ENGAGE
THE JOLTING IS FELT. IT TAKES TO MUCH TIME TO ENPLANE
BUT THAT WHAT WILL FIX THE BINDING IF ALL OF THE ABOVE
ARE IN 1-2 ARE KNOW TO BE GOOD
NEW PARTS NEEDED
1 . EXTENSION HOUSING
2 . TRANSFER CLUTCHES + STEELS+ SELECTIVE SPACER/SHIM
3 . TRANSFER GEAR BEARING ( PRESS FIT )
4. REAR VALVE BODY CROSS OVER TUBE
5. VALVE BODY GASKETS (REAR VALVE BODY)
6. AND TRANS FER GASKET
HERE"S YOUR FIX IT WILL WORK ! DONE MORE THEY A FEW
Good LUCK !!

subbie99 · December 2005

It is slow to engage into "DRIVE" (or any forward gear) from any other position - "PARK", "REVERSE", or "NEUTRAL". It doesn't matter if he car is warm or hot. The transmission fluid & filter have been changed, without changing this condition.

This does not happen when shifting into "REVERSE".

Once engaged, the transmission operates flawlessly.

The problem was that it was slow to engage in drive, sometime up to 30 seconds.
As I said this problem has been resolved now the repair was to the transmission with a rebuild kit.
NOT a replacement rebuilt from Subaru for $4000 cnd + labour
There is a tech bullitin regarding this problem with the Series II 4EAT automatic transmission.

billj3 · December 2005

Headed to subaru today and coincedentially to buy some tires this afternoon. Front tires are shot.
Is it possible the tires will fix the problem or is the damge likely done.
Is it safe to drive if i don't get it fixed prior to leaving for the holidays? Headed to snow country.
Thanks, Bill

subaruguru · December 2005

IT IS THE LOW REV CLUTCH PISTON SEAL. It can be fixed for 1/2 the price a rebuild exchange from subaru . the ones I have done for this all were worth the rebuild well into 100k range. You might want to call another dealer that will rebuild it instede of replace it
GOOD LUCK

subaruguru · December 2005

after the tires are installed if the problem is still there. It would be safe to drive on your trip most of the damage is done. Though this is hard on the drive line just take it easy in the tight turns have a grate trip !

summer12 · December 2005

Thank you

I thought that may be the problem, but the lights only came on at speeds over 50 during the summer.

risub · December 2005

I've never owned a Subaru before and I just purchased a new 2006 LL. Bean Outback. I am being offered an Extended Service Contract (backed by Subaru, Added Security Gold Plus Coverage) for 5 years/100,000 miles. I most likely will not trade this car and will most likely keep it for its useful life. Can anyone share their experiences and/or thoughts about whether the purchase of this extended warranty would be worth the cost (about $1,700.)

Thank you for your insights.

glenford · December 2005

On average, of course, it does not pay. If they expected to spend more than $1700 on your car during its life, they'd charge more for the policy.

Depends on what you are protecting yourself from. If you're worried about a potential catastrophe, no matter how small the odds, and it will give you peace of mind, or if you might not have the money to cover an unexpected big bill but you can afford the contract, these might be reasons to do it. There are probably others.

Also, like all insurance, you only have the one car - the averages don't do you any good, only the experience with that car. Roll the dice?

Not definitive, sorry. Tim

denvrdav · December 2005

Have about 500 miles on my new Outback. Love it but the auto rear view mirror doesn't dim worth a damn. Can't tell if it is dimming at all. I have made sure the middle head rest didn't interfere with the sensor--removed it. Any ideas? I assume it should dim more than just a little bit.The compass and other functions work.

zman3 · December 2005

I assume you have it turned on? The button on the left of the mirror turns it off. Mine works very good, although it is a little slow to respond to lights. It takes a second or two to dim once a headlight hits it.

cptplt · December 2005

if thats the MSRP for the contract you can usually get it for at least 30-40% off easily, there are some websites where Subaru dealers are selling them cheap.I recently paid about 1500 for a 7/100 zero deductible on my Tribeca.
I got them for my 92 Legacy, never got my money back on that one, everything went to pot after the ext warranty ended!, I have used more than double what I paid for a 98 Legacy which I still have. The a/c repairs were well over a grand plus various other things. Dealers I have found treat you very well with a SOA ext warranty, I have had work done free which is not covered - from burnt out bulbs in the dash to a timing belt.
I have gotten my money back many times over on a Ford and Chevy with ext warranties!! In fact I would never buy one of those and keep it beyond the factory warranty without one.
Don't buy non manufacturer ones, while you are not tied to a dealer for repair, many of the larger companies have gone belly up in recent years leaving their customers out of luck!

risub · December 2005

I've noticed two versions of the auto dimming mirror. One version seems to have only 1 button on the lower left side of the frame to turn the compass on and off... and where the compas readout is actually readable in the upper right hand corner of the mirror surface. Doesn't seem to have a button to turn the auto dimming feature on and off. The other auto dimming mirror version has a left button (toggles the dimming feature on-off, then the auto dimming indicator, then the photo sensor and all the way on the far right, the right button, which toggles the compas readout on and off. I have the 2006 LL Bean OutBack with the first version AutoDimming Mirror described above. Yet the manual that came with my vehicle shows the 2nd version described above. Does anyone know the difference between these two versions.... or why one vehicle would have one version over the other???

thanks.

tkanic · December 2005

I think the mirror w/ the compass in the mirrored area is the newer one, while the compass below the mirror is the old 05 one. I WAG that the manual was printed with the old one because that's what they had a picture of.

zman3 · December 2005

My 06 OB came with the second one described, with on/off buttons for both the mirror and compass and the compass readout below the mirror.

I can only guess that the older one is actually the one you have (just to contradict tkanic

). Maybe the dealer added it as an option and used one that was left over from 05? Or maybe Subaru needed to use both in 06 due to supply issues? Just my WAG.

tkanic · December 2005

[quote]I can only guess that the older one is actually the one you have (just to contradict tkanic )[/quote]

No Prob zman3, but just to clarify my (early) 05 OB came w/ the compass under the mirror and is the type shown in the 05 OB 'flyer' OK not a flyer, but that thing you get at the dealer which shown info on a current model car, the 06 OB shows the compass in the mirror IIRC.

It could very well be manufacturing issues also as you pointed out.

zman3 · December 2005

OK it's starting to make sense, maybe. I checked the brochure for the 06 Outbacks. Where it shows accessories it does indeed show the mirror with the compass in the upper corner. My 06 OB was an early build, in June. VIN number 5xxx. Maybe I ended up with one of the left over 05 mirrors.

hpaulson2 · December 2005

I have a '95 Subaru legacy wagon, 175K klm. (109 K miles )
My head gskt. failed last week. I bought a SoA rebuilt engine $6K Cndn. I suspected something wrong a month ago- poor gas mileage - hard starting - black coolant coming out of exhaust.
i asked Subaru dealer to check it out-he found nothing wrong.
Same reply at local NAPA dealer - he replaced the starter.
I'll replace the car soon, but it won't be a Subaru.

tomr · December 2005

I have a Outback 2004 with 32000 miles(auto) and no real problems until now. When I put the car in reverse to pull out of a parking space the car revved high. I mean so high that if I didn't have my foot on the brake I would have cause major problems or maybe injuries. I put the car into neutral and it came down. I have tried to duplicate this a couple of times since and it has not happened again. Any advice would be appreciated.

Tomr

tkanic · December 2005

I had this in another car, What happened is the accelerator cable was fraying and sticking a bit (not noticable under normal driving). Somehow when the car was put into reverse, and the engine moved a bit as it engaged (play in the engine mounts), it pulled on the accelerator cable and would raise the idle. But that car was over 100K and 10 years old.

theooutback · December 2005

I have a new '06 Outback Limited and noticed in my materials that you can purchase the extra warranty up until the end of the regular warranty. I note that simply because you may want to do it at some point, but you might want to keep the time value of that money - invest it, make some interest, why give it to them now? (very interesting to read the owners manual BTW - the transmission has THREE modes, I just thought there was auto and manual and discovered that "sport" was not manual but a different program that's automatic that's selected by moving over to the gate but not opting to select gears... but I digress)

tkanic · December 2005

I just thought there was auto and manual and discovered that "sport" was not manual but a different program that's automatic that's selected by moving over to the gate but not opting to select gears...

Me too, and the Cruse Control can be cancled w/o turning it off or stepping on the brake or shifting into N, it helps to read that book

risub · December 2005

Yes, I also found out that the Subaru sponsored extended service contract does not have to be purchased at time of sale, but needs to be done prior to expiration of the original 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. There are some added features that come with the Subaru Extended Service Pan (that are not available with the warranty that comes with he car)....that would be available if you purchase that plan now rather than wait up till the orginal warranty is set to expire.... such as payment for hotels and meals should your vehicle break down while you're travelling, rental car allowance (up to $30 a day or something close to that), dealer locator (not sure what that is) and 24 hour help line(??) road hazzard tire protection, towing allowance up to $100 per occurance. I guess if I think I might purchase the extended service contract.... it might be worthwhile to do it now, rather than later...so those extra's are available should they be needed.

moendm · December 2005

Did you ever get your rattle issue dealt with...I have an 05 outback LL Bean...I have a rattle in the back passenger side...appears to be behind the upper corner of the back seat..it sounds like two pieces of metal clicking together or plastic on plastic...it only does it when I am going between 25-30 mph over bumps. I have taken it to the Dealer and, of course, they have not fixed it...I would appreciate your comments...

billj3 · December 2005

Thanks for all the info. Subaru gave me a price of 1100- 1300 to repair. Seems reasonable I think. There is also an error code flashing on the dash which the mechanic thought world be perhaps another computer or sensor related issue. Tried the fuse trick but it changed nothing, would not go into FWD. Got new front tires, which changed nothing. waiting of 2 rear tires this week, likely will change nothing. so i will go on my trip in 4 wheel drive and hope I see a lot of snow:-) and do the repair when I return first week of January
Regards,
Bill

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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