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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    I've tried mid grade (89) but it didn't help. Do you think 93 would change anything? Eric
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    After discovering that premium (91 octane) stopped the pinging, I tried mid grade (89) on the next tank and heard some pinging again with light acceleration (but it was not nearly as bad as with 87 in the tank). Since then, I've been using 91 gas and have not heard any pinging. The difference between low and high grades is about $3 (or less) per fillup, which is insignificant to me.

    I'll reiterate that the higher octane is only masking the real problem (dirty heads) but it's still cheaper than the alternative (taking the car into the shop for an expensive head cleaning). For your Subaru, it's worth a shot just to see if it cures your condition...if it does work, then you can decide if it's worth it to you to pay a shop to clean the gunk out or whether you'd rather just keep on putting in premium.

    B
  • waltercatwaltercat Member Posts: 10
    Anyone have any bright ideas about the power locks in my wife's '96 Outback wagon? They had worked intermittently for the last couple of years, and now they have failed as follows: when the engine starts, all the doors lock, and when the engine is shut off, the doors unlock (so far, so good)- but the doors will not lock and unlock centrally when the outside driver's door lock is locked, or when the inside driver's door lock lever is moved between lock and unlock positions.

    Has anyone gotten this fixed, or better yer, has anyone actually fixed this themselves? Thanks, folks.
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    I'm going to try a tank of premium next time I around 1/4 tank.
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    On my '96 OBW I have experienced intermittent malfunctions with the door locks. Strange as it sounds it seems to be related to the temperature; the system works on cold days and does not when the weather turns warmer . The locks work individually but cannot be centrally controlled by the drivers side lock either inside or out.. I just live with the situation.
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    We don't drive our car very much (i.e. lots of short trips) that may be why the heads are dirty. Although we've driven it alot more recently and I haven't (knock on wood) heard the first ping since then. If I hear it again, I'll give 93 a shot. :)

    Eric
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    In my mis-spent youth I knew a fellow who ran a small car repair place. Every 6 mos or so a lady who only ever took her car shopping would bring in her Citroen DS19 for a tune up because of "rough running". He would blast it 50 miles and back along the M1 motorway at about 100 mph. Then he would do anything that remained to be done. According to him this high speed drive fixed the rough running problem.

    I think it's getting the engine up to sustained full operating temperature that makes it run better. My old Dodge 360 alway ran best after about an hour of driving. A modern car should get hot quickly, but it won't if the thermostat is a bit off or there's some other problem.
  • jajjaj Member Posts: 55
    I have made my third service appointment to address problem of the check engine light going on in my '05 Outback, accompanied by cruise control light flashing and cruise control disabled. There is no apparent correlation with gas fill-ups; light goes on and off periodically. Anyone else with this problem? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    -jaj
  • bnorwood16bnorwood16 Member Posts: 1
    What is going own?!!!!Was christen a subaru. I have a 97 Subaru Legacy/Outback. The check engine light came on. Autozone code reader indicated that it was missing on 2 cylinders. Replaced coil and ignition wires. Ran good for a few days then started missing again. Code again indicates missing. Replaced coil again, but no change this time. Since then it has been down hill. CEL flashes, remote stopped working, cruise stopped working, reverse lights stopped working, fuel gauge has a mind of it's own and it sounds like the power windows or locks keep trying to cycle when the key is on.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    M1 is in England, isn't it?

    Krzys
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    traditionally known as "the italian tune-up".

    Based on some science, actually. A strong fuel additive and a good blast for 200-300 miles will sometimes cure issues related to carbonization of valves or piston tops.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Yup. And in those days it was the only motorway and no speed limit.
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    I put in premium yesterday, I haven't heard any pinging. That tells me there's something wrong. My '98 Outback never had that trouble, nor did any of my other Subarus.
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Well, that's good news! At least it's quieted the engine down for now. Sure it means that you've got a dirty engine that probably needs a professional cleaning, but at least you've isolated the problem and don't necessarily HAVE to take it in to the shop right away. A few dollars extra at the pump is still much cheaper than my mechanic at $80/hr.

    I was quite surprised that my Frontier's engine was dirty enough to require premium with only 50k miles, but I was even more surprised that simply switching octane levels would quiet the thing down so quickly.

    Brian
  • rhonda10rhonda10 Member Posts: 21
    I recently posted a question about my 2004 Outback that emits a strange sound [like paper in a fan] when I am traveling on the freeway between the speed of 70-75 [only] upon acceleration. If I go above or below that speed range and/or remove my foot from the accelerator, the noise stops. It is, however, an intermittent noise which is frustrating in itself. Since my purchase of the vehicle in March 2006, I have taken it to the dealer 4 times for this problem -- the first 2 times they claimed that although they heard the noise that they could not duplicate for long enough to diagnosis. The second and third time they adjusted the heatshield, replaced an exhaust bracket and replaced one of my Catalytic Converters. All of this and the noise still continues. My car only has 33,000 miles. The truly unfortunate thing is that although the dealers cannot figure out what is wrong, they have continually assured me that they do not believe the problem to be serious. Although I believe Subaru makes a good product, I truly believe that my vehicle has a problem that could potentially cost me in the long run. Because of this I have hired an attorney to pursue my Lemon Law rights. I wish you the best of luck in finding the answer to your similar problem.
  • kat95kat95 Member Posts: 49
    My wagon has 200 miles on it and have noticed when stopped and give it gas to move there is a slight hesitation as if the car might not be getting enough gas or wanting to stall but it's ever so slight I'm wondering if I should take it to the dealer. It's an auto non-turbo. Has anyone experienced this?

    Thank you
  • mrk610mrk610 Member Posts: 378
    Hey all .I got the ECM reflash because of the hesitation on acceleration .The car was still under warrenty so no pay from me . I have done some testing and have found that my car pings on shell gas. I now use the gas that WAWA sells and have not heard the pinging .I do try to run a can of seafoam every oil change.
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    Thanks, good luck with yours. Mine doesn't sound as severe. It definitely makes the noise only around 1800 rpm, but not when parked. It's interesting that you mention they adjusted the heat shield. That's kind of what I did, I bent it slightly in different spots to see if it would make a difference. Nothing changed. Both cases sound like resonance at that speed.
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    True, I may not buy premium each time as I fill at least twice a week since I use my car for field service. I wasn't going to bother trying premium since mid grade made no difference. I figured I'd try it after I saw your post. Sounds like a professional cleaning would be big bucks. At least a fill with premium is a 300+ mile fix. Maybe it's my imagination but it seems like there's very slight power increase as well. I just don't know how the engine would be effected over the long term by using premium intermittently.
  • cmpoutbackcmpoutback Member Posts: 1
    I just got a used '05 outback. I have been experiencing the same exact thing!! I'm assuming the servicing on your outback is not fxing the problem. Did they tell you what is wrong? Is it covered under the warranty?

    Any input would be appreciated.
  • dsaindsain Member Posts: 17
    The timing belt remove/replace is a 4.5 hour job. If your replacing the pump, it's a good idea to replace the belt (especially if your are near 105K or 210K miles).
  • dsaindsain Member Posts: 17
    Pinging is also called knock or pre-ignition. The fuel is igniting before it is supposed to. Knock can be caused be incorrect timing or carbon build-up in your cylinders.

    If you are experiencing constant pinging you may consider changing your knock sensor. When engine knock is detected, the ECM retards timing (the spark happens a little later during the cycle) a bit to stop it.

    I experienced ocassional knock in my '00 OBW at throttle tip-in from idle, but it'd only do it once. This is not a bad thing, as the ECM takes care of it. I did notice that I do have slightly improved milage and no knock when I use 88 octane fuel.
  • rdh3trdh3t Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    I have an automatic transmission 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon,in good shape, under 50,000 miles. Recently it has been making an odd humming sound when I shut the engine off. This is a low pitched sound, steady (not vibrating or oscillating), and it can last up to 45 seconds or so with the car shut off and key taken out, until it eventually fades off to silence. I've never heard anything like this before it started a week or so ago, and I haven't taken it for service or anything--I figured I'd start here. Anyone have any ideas?

    Thanks,

    Ryan
  • dsaindsain Member Posts: 17
    The service manual for 2000-2003 lists the code as follows:
    P0171 : Fuel trim malfunction (A/F too lean) :

    There is no P0174 code in the manual or the H6 supplement.
  • tkanictkanic Member Posts: 78
    Sounds like the radiator fan. It started recently because the weather has warmed up, and the engine and cooling system is running a bit hotter as a result. The car wants to cool down the antifreeze to a acceptable level before it shuts off the fan.

    If this is the case, it is normal and many cars do this.
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    Doesn't it need accessory power to do this? If I take my key out, I lose accessory power on my 00 outback.

    Eric
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    No, that's the whole idea. The fan runs with no key and no-one around if it has to. That is why you will frequently find an under-hood sticker warning that the fan can start at any time. Residual heat from the engine after shut-off still enters the cooling system, but your pump is not running any more, so the fan must turn on to avoid overpressure and excess heat.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    I think you will get a code for a defective knock sensor, as I did. I ordered one over the internet for about 1/4 of the Subaru price and while I was waiting for it to arrive I drove 1500 km across three mountain ranges with the light on from time to time. I didn't notice any pinging, but took care to not labour the engine (5 speed). I used regular gas as always but would have switched to premium if I heard pinging. The sensor is right on top of the engine and took about 10 minutes to replace.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,761
    Same here, though this year I have only had the "problem" crop up twice. The real annoyance with it is the rear hatch, as there is no latch mechanism or anything to open it from the inside (oddly, I find myself needing to do this fairly often since the hydraulics do not work on the door any longer)and the key lock on the outside argues with me every time I go to use it.

    I hear that the problem is the switch mechanism in the driver's door and the fix is to access it and adjust it (it wears with time/use). So far, if I really want to open all the doors from the driver, I just repeat the lock/unlock motion repeatedly until it works. That is the stubborn man's solution. ;) Darn old cars, anyway.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,761
    How do you run your Seafoam? Just through the gas? I hear there is a "deep clean" you can do with it by allowing it to be sucked through the vacuum system.... anyone know if there is merit in that?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,761
    You can experience problems related to the sensor if it is not being fully responsive. Usually the CEL will only trigger if the sensor stops sending feedback (either intermittently or altogether). That said though, gummed up injectors/valves can cause pinging that the knock sensor will not correct and it does not mean that the sensor is going bad. *shrugs*
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    I wonder if any good cleaning additive would help. I'm thinking no, I recall a somewhat recent post where someone tried that with no luck.
  • tacoma5050tacoma5050 Member Posts: 5
    As we all know, in FEB 2004 SOA announced a campaign that addressed the HG issue in the 2.5 engines. That campaige only includes the 2.5L engine of years 99 - 02 and not all 2.5 engines in that year range are covered.

    I know this topic has probably been beaten like a dead horse, but I have a few questions that I have not been able to find answers to before I buy my 1st Subaru:

    1. I was all set to buy an 03 Outback assuming that by 03 SOA must have addressed the HG issue in their new cars. But I have heard some owners of 03's have experienced HG problems. At what year is it safe to buy a 2.5L engine Subaru and not have to worry about the HG issue: 03, 04, and 05?

    2. What did SOA do to eliminate the HG issue: newly designed HG? , new HG manufacturer? , new HG sealant?, new install procedure? , etc. Basically what was the original problem and how was it redesigned so it will not happen any more?

    3. If your Subaru is one in the HG campaign, you are advised to put in a 'special conditioner'.
    What is that conditioner?
    What's in it?
    How does it stop or prevent the leaking?
    If the conditioner can plug or clog small leaking passages, why won't it clog or reduce the flow through small passages in the radiator or engine?

    4. If an engine is included in the HG campaign and SOA authorizes the HG to be replaced, when the new HG is put in are you still required to use the special additive?

    5. I found a 02 outback for sale, it has a HG that leaks externally. I called SOA, they said that cars VIN is not part of the campaign and is not covered. How is that? Did this happen to many owners with the HG issue? Is this a way for SOA to say they are doing something for their customers, but in most cases they are not?

    6. What percentage of the 2.5L phase II engines had the HG problem?
    Do some years have a worst percentage than others? If yes, which?

    7. Does anyone know the VIN ranges that are included in the SOA HG campaign?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1. I have not seen the 03s that you report, I thought by then it was behind them.

    2. The HG material was revised more than once, I believe.

    3. Conditioner = Stop Leak. basically.

    4. Not sure, but I think so. You have a sticker that says whenever you flush the cooling system to use the conditioner again.

    5. Some 02s were included, others were not. Our '02 Legacy L was not included, but it's been just fine. We did not add the conditioner.

    6. Hard to say. It was common enough that I would be concerned about the 99-02 used models. At least those are covered. Just make sure they did have the conditioner added (so I'd avoid that 02 just in case).

    7. No, but call 800-SUBARU3 with any particular VIN to find out.

    -juice
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Go to an enthusiast site like ultimatesubaru.net.
    Most of your questions have been correctly answered in existing threads.

    It's important because the HG warranty was extended if you add the stop leak product. I forget the brand, but it is a commercial product.
  • tacoma5050tacoma5050 Member Posts: 5
    I just got off the phone with SOA. They told me that starting in late 02 and in all 03's and up, SOA started adding the conditioner(StopLeak I guess)and put a newly designed HG in all the 2.5L engines.

    So if you have a 2003 or newer, you supposidly have the conditioner. (I hope this stuff does not affect the radiator) Anyone out there with an '03 or newer who can look at their owners manual(or maybe a sticker somewhere) and tell me if the conditioner is in fact required on coolant changes.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Well, for my 2000 model I'm supposed to use the additive every time the coolant is changed, for evermore.

    And because I'm :mad: about it I'll reiterate that Subaru did not see the need to extend the warranty on HG failures for its Canadian customers. Why bother, eh?
  • ssteveksstevek Member Posts: 45
    My '02 had the trouble last year. The dealer added the sealant and admitted sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Surprisingly mine may have been "fixed". I haven't noticed any anti-freeze smell, the level was down slightly about six months after. I added some & will keep an eye on it.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    The driver window on my 00 OB stopped working today (fortunately in the 'up' position). I pulled the switch panel and got the switch assembly open. As far as I can tell using a meter, the actual switch works, making the same connections as the one next to it. But the circuit board has some other components on it so without a wiring diagram I can't be sure that the whole assembly is operating correctly. So my next step is to take the door panel off and check for power at the motor.

    I wanted to check fuses, but where are they? I can't find a mention of window fuses in the manual or on either of the two fuse panels. Anyone know?
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    If your meter showed power downstream from the switch, the problem is not a fuse or a switch. It sounds like the motor.
    I just finished replacing the power widow regulator assembly on my 02 Caravan. The job took me 4 hours. But the Subaru regulator assembly is simpler. I never had to work on the power windows on any of my Subarus. Yours is the first power window malfunction I have heard of.
    I have seen estimates of over $500 for the job. The part will probably run $100. If your time is worth less that $200 an hour, I would recommend you order a motor and do the replacement yourself.
    Jim W
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    It is time for the first oil change on my 2006 Outback 2.5i. I bought a filter and oil plug gasket from the dealer. But the service advisor could not tell me the torque value for the drain plug. If anyone knows the value, I would appreciate hearing.
  • larrycrowelllarrycrowell Member Posts: 33
    From the 2005 Legacy/Outback service manual, section/page PM-8, the torque spec is 33 ft-lb (44 N-m in metric). Of all the cars I've had, this is one of the easiest for oil & filter change. By the way, I find it very odd that a Subaru service advisor wouldn't know this. An afterthought: If you want, I can email the oil service pages (.pdf) to you; just make your email visible.
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    Mr. Crowell, thank you for the information. The owner's manual has decent instructions on oil changes, so I think I'll be OK now that I know the torque value. I, too, was surprised that the service guy didn't know - he just told me to tighten the plug until the gasket was fully crushed.

    Where did you purchase the service manual? Eventually I would like to get one. Thanks again.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    I have ascertained that the motor is dead (put 12V on the connector both ways and got no response). But getting the entire regulator out to replace the motor and more to the point, putting it back in again, looks tricky. So I think I'll leave this to a mechanic.

    But having done the diagnostic and much of the disassembly work It shouldn't be too much for labour. I found the motor online at a Subaru dealer for US$165 and at a non-Subaru parts supply place for $73 exchange. Which probably means its about CAN$300 at my local Subaru dealer.
  • larrycrowelllarrycrowell Member Posts: 33
    The service manual is impressive; it fills 9 2" 3-ring binders, printed both sides. As I remember its about $1000 to buy it, which was too steep for me. Another option is to download it from techinfo.subaru.com. They offer a 72-hour subscription for about $30 or so. However, they limit you to 20 .pdf files per hour (I think it is 20) so the download task will keep you busy for those most of those 72 hours. And you can pick & choose. For my 2005 OBXTMT I did not download the normal engines, auto transmission, sunroof, VDC, etc. Now I have what I need both printed and on CD-ROM (with a copy in the car). In the future you can purchase another 72-hours and download updates and changes. Now for my opinion: I think Subaru should supply car purchasers with the CD-ROM in the first place. And I'm surprised that some scofflaw is not selling bootleg copies.
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    Again, thank you for the valuable information. I agree that $1000 is not affordable. I'll look into the downloads.
  • sugardogsugardog Member Posts: 41
    I sold my vehicle Oct of 2005.
    Excellent resale value.
    I am very happy to be rid of the vehicle.
    Needless to say, I won't be making anymore entries into
    this forum.
  • tkanictkanic Member Posts: 78
    It's time for me to change or get changed the plugs in my 05i. The owners manual says something along the lines that perhaps you should bring in the car for this one. Looking at it, it seems like there is not a whole lot of space to work, and removal of the battery and air filter assembly may help, but it doesn't look too bad to do.

    So anyone have any advice on it? Is it really something that I should bring in?
  • larrycrowelllarrycrowell Member Posts: 33
    According to the service manual (page PM-11) for 2005 OB 2.5 nonturbo:
    1. remove intake duct and intake chamber
    2. remove battery
    3. disconnect spark plug cord
    4. remove spark plug
    5. recommended plug NGK PFR5B-11, tighten to 15 ft-lb

    This doesn't sound too bad assuming that you have a socket set with various length extensions and a u-joint.
  • subarufan1subarufan1 Member Posts: 85
    i just brought home my brand new 2006 legacy gt wagon and there is some kinda greenish/yellowish residue that almost looks like paint or something thats splashed on all the brake calipers, anyone have an idea what that is? the brakes work great so i dont know what it is thx
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