Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

jcatlantic · February 2008

Thanks for your response Mike!

It looks like mine will be purely cosmetic then because they sure are useless as fog lights (as fog lights are intended to work, not driving lights)! As I mentioned, my '98 Outback has great fog lights that actually do what they are supposed to do, I wonder why Subaru has changed? C'est la vie!

Thanks again Paul and Mike for your replies!

JC

dgarlepp · February 2008

Hi, I need to change the fuel pump in my friends 1995 Legacy wagon, I don't have the shop manuel. Is the fuel pump under the back seat, or do I have to take the gas tank out to get to it. I need to change the fuel filter too. Any tips would help.
Thanks
Dan

xwesx · February 2008

The fuel filter is located on a bracket mounted to the side of the driver-side strut housing. So, it would be next to the windshield washer reservoir, toward the firewall. It is a small cylinder (maybe 2" diameter?) with two tubes sticking out the top. I am not sure about the fuel pump, but I think it is located inside the fuel tank.

paisan · February 2008

I replied in the other thread about this. The fuel pump is located in the tank. To access it you take out the back seat and there is a trap door you unbolt, then remove a hatch on top of the tank. You take out the sending unit and pump and put the new one in. It's about a 2hr job max and isn't so bad.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

xwesx · February 2008

Thanks for the info, Mike. Luckily, that was one of the few things on the '96 with which I never had to monkey around.

paisan · February 2008

In all the subies I've worked on probably 500-1000, I've never had to replace one. I have replaced a bunch on cars where we were upgrading the injectors, turbo and fuel pump however

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

dansk713 · February 2008

When accelerating and decelerating at 2500rpm the engine gets louder almost as if it is coming from the exhaust system.

ateixeira · February 2008

I bet it's a loose exhaust shield. Is it a tinny rattle-rattle-rattle?

hammerhead · February 2008

I second that, Juice. Goes away about 3000 rpm as well. Been there, got that

Solution: keep the revs up! :shades:

Cheers!
Paul

dansk713 · February 2008

Thanks for the response....nothing I should worry about, right?

xwesx · February 2008

Not if it does not bother you. Otherwise you could crawl under there to hunt it down and either tighten it up (if it is loose), or bend it back into shape (if it is bent and touching something, like the exhaust).

nornet · February 2008

When I test drove 07 Foresters I found them to be some of the most uncomfortable seats around. I've been in a 00 Forster and found it very tiring after 100 miles. Everyone else in the car also found this to be the case. I know people who won't use their Forester on weekend trips because of comfort issues. I ended up buying the 07 Outback (leather) and the 08 Legacy (cloth). The leather seats are designed for someone in the 160 lb range. They are optimized for a thin person, however they are quite comfortable and I can do 12 hours/ 800 miles in a day if need be. The Legacy seems to be more suited for a broader butt. It is a comfortable seat period.

Unless the 09 Subarus have gone to the Legacy seats, I'd stay away.

ateixeira · March 2008

I will preface my comment with a "We are all shaped differently".

Any how, my 98 Forester had firm, supportive seats that I liked a lot.

Our 2002 Legacy's seats are too soft, though, and not well shaped. I much prefered our 98 Forester's seats.

Try them out, is all. The Forester seats changed for model year 2003, and probably again now for the 2009 redesign.

dakotadriver · March 2008

I am sure that this has probably been answered somewhere, but lately I have been noticing an anti-freeze smell coming from my 01 Outback wagon after driving it. I can occasionally smell it inside the car, which made me think of a possible heater core issue, but it is not consistent inside the car, only outside. I do not see anything leaking when I take a quick look underneath it, and it isn't running too hot (according to the in dash gauge), but I have been seeing posts talking about the head gaskets in these cars and overheating. It also has been getting lower than usual mpg lately but that began once it got really cold around here so I do not know if that is related. I put in an aftermarket catalytic converter in it last fall and the check engine light always turns on reading cat efficiency also, but probably not connected to the anti-freeze smell. Any suggestions as to what is going on?

prabbit13 · March 2008

I have a 2001 Outback Wagon Ltd. My check engine light is on (P1133), which turns out is the rear oxygen sensor. The dealer went to replace it and determined that they can't because the oxygen sensor is seized into the catalytic converter. So, they'll need to replace the catalytic converter as well.

My question is: how could the oxygen sensor get seized into the converter?

I've had nobody be the dealership work on the car. I've had the knock sensor replaced. I'm not sure if that's in the vicinity of the the catalytic converter (I'm guessing it's not). I've also had the heat shields welded to quell an exhaust noise. Six months after that work was done it was determined that the Y pipe was cracked, so that was replaced. During this same repair, a hole was found in the catalytic converter and it too was welded.

A few days after that service my check engine light came on with the P1133 code and the $1250 diagnosis that my oxygen sensor and catalytic converter will need to be replaced.

So, again, how would the sensor have gotten seized in the first place? Could any of the work I've described been a factor?

paisan · March 2008

The O2 sensor is siezed on the cat probably at the threads. What most likely is that the cat is bad which super-heated the cat and essentially welded your O2 sensor in place. I've had 1 instance where on a WRX we couldn't get the O2 out it's rare but does happen.

-mike

prabbit13 · March 2008

It is seized at the threads.

Not the news I was hoping for, but I appreciate the quick response, Mike. Thanks!

prabbit13 · March 2008

If my oxygen sensor and catalytic converter failed before 80,000 miles, would they be covered by the EPA 8 year/80,000 mile warranty? From what I am reading at http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt that appears to be the case.

skydoor · March 2008

The Check engine light came on about a year ago, on my 96 Subaru Outback 2.2l a mechanic said it was the rear O2 sensor and that it was probably just the sensor, which can act up. I decided not to spend the $200, to fix it.
Two weeks ago, I brought my car to a mechanic I had never used before to fix an unrelated problem, he said the codes said both front and rear 02 sensor, and that they needed to be replaced, and that the system should be flushed (Intake, injectors and catalytic system). I reluctantly agreed. Two weeks, car was fine, now the engine light is on again, reading the same code as before the work was done (P0420) catalysic effiency bank.

Mechanic spent about $580 fixing the two o2 sensors and doing other things now says it will be $630 to replace both cats (front and rear). He did agree to knock off $65 for the time it spent replacing the 02sensors. This seems like a very expensive way to diagnose a problem. It seems like the o2 sensors were fine in the first place. Is this standard protocol? Should the mechanic be held accountable in any way?

I have found a cheaper mechanic who will install parts I find online, I found a company Catco which sells direct fit subaru cats, for half price, anyone have any experience with them? Do they fit well and work?

dakotadriver · March 2008

I don't know about Catco, but I had a similar problem with my '01 Outback (cat inefficiency code). I was told that it would be around $600 from a local muffler shop and $850 from the Subaru dealer to replace the cat. I went online and found aftermarket parts and chose a different brand cat (guaranteed to meet efficiency standards) and my mechanic said they would install it for labor only. Unfortunately, I am getting the same error code after the installation. My mechanic checked on an online tech forum and learned then that they see this a lot with aftermarket parts, and that I should probably get an OEM part from the dealer (they are not saying that the aftermarket part isn't working, only that the Subaru computer seems to be very picky about this and prefers OEM parts). However, I have seen other posts where people are saying that they are still having the cat inefficiency code pop up even after having the dealer install an OEM part, so I do not know what to tell you besides the fact that, apparently on the tech forums they are recommending OEM parts, and that mechanics that have a lot of experience (generally) still are having some difficulty diagnosing (they seem to see Subaru's as a little different from other vehicles). I think that the existence of computers in our cars telling us what is wrong with them has affected the ability of technicians to figure things out the old way, which sometimes means things get fixed because a computer told them it was bad instead of some independent judgment.

prabbit13 · March 2008

For hopefully someone's future benefit.

The oxygen sensor is covered by the EPA-mandated warranty for 2 years or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first. The catalytic converter is covered by the EPA-mandated warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first.

My car when I first took it in to have the check engine light diagnosed was at 78,000 miles. It was determined that it was a failed O2 sensor. Unfortunately, it was seized into the catalytic converter, which would also need to be replaced to replace the failed sensor. Total cost would have been about $1500 for the O2 sensor and cat converter and labor. I opted to wait.

According to the EPA-mandated warranty this replacement of the catalytic converter would fall to the manufacturer. Well, the dealer didn't bother to tell me this.

I'm now at 83,000 miles and at a different dealership. They're going to replace the catalytic converter and O2 sensor. I'm paying for the failed O2 sensor (~$350 since it was beyond the warranty) and the dealership will bill the cross-town dealership for the catalytic converter because it was still covered by the warranty when I took my car in for diagnosis (and, essentially, for not doing their job in the first place).

I'm fortunate in that I had the paperwork to show that the problem was found at 78,000 miles. I'm also fortunate that the technicians at dealership #2 realized that something was wrong with the previous work that had been done and that management went to bat for me.

I wouldn't have gotten it to happen though if I had not provided the warranty information from here http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

So, Bloomington Subaru in MN will be getting my business from now on and Morrie's Subaru in MN will not.

cohappy · March 2008

Help, I have a 2004 Legacy and cannot find the pcv valve. Also when changing the plugs there was oil in the hole the plug goes in on the outside of the plug wires. This is wierd, there was no oil on the plugs. There was no leakage from the engine.
Does anyone know where this oil could be from? It is a 4 cylander.

xwesx · March 2008

If I recall correctly, the PCV valve is on the intake manifold, rear passenger side.

Oil in the plug hole and on the outside of the plug wires is usually indicative of a failed valve cover gasket. The valve covers have three separate gaskets - one around the outside of the head, and one around each of the plug access holes. The plug wires fully cover the spark plug and the opening to the hole, so if the gasket is leaking, oil can build up in there.

ateixeira · March 2008

Let me dig up that photo from the one on my Forester, which is probably in the same place....

Found it. New one in my hand right next to the old one, on top of the engine on the EJ25 engine in my Forester.

cohappy · March 2008

It is not there, only thing there is a vacum fitting.
Thanks

ateixeira · March 2008

That was a 1998 DOHC engine. They must have moved it, then.

I think the ignition coil is still in the same place on my wife's 2002 SOHC EJ25.

skydoor · March 2008

This is my concern, that it is not the 02 or the cats but something else, and that mechanics just read the codes and go from there. A friend of mine with a 200 VW TDI's turbo was out, and the VW specalist said it would be 2000$ for a new turbo. He read up, bought $200 of parts and had a local mechanic install the parts, and it worked. We need more people to diagnose. Hard to know what to do/believe.

bufwxguy · March 2008

I have the same coolant problem on my '02 Outback wagon (81K miles). Its the drivers side head gasket leaking onto the exhaust, so the evaporated coolant smell gets in through the ventilation system. On cold days I also see steam coming out the front grill. No overheating on the dial gauge as long as you keep an eye on coolant level and keep it topped off. Thanks to all the posts on this, I just had mine into the local Subaru dealer to have the coolant conditioner added per the service bulleting #99 (no charge). This gets you the "good will" extended warranty to 100K miles. Two days have passed and the leak seems to have slowed significantly/stopped. Question is how long is the coolant conditioner effective, anybody have some advice on that? Thanks.

xwesx · March 2008

It is effective to about 101,000 miles. :P

No, honestly, it is really hard to say. It depends entirely on the severity of the leak, whether a leak existed prior to the additive, etc. It will be more likely to help if the rest of the cooling system is working properly and the fluids remains at the proper pressure. For example, if there is a flow restriction in the radiator or a hose that causes increased pressure in the engine, it could start leaking again.

dakotadriver · March 2008

I just spoke to my mechanic and he said that on my '01 it ended up just being the upper radiator hose where it meets the engine and they said the headgaskets looked "dry as a bone." I poked around in there myself and did not see anything leaking, but I guess I dodged the dreaded headgasket problem so I'll accept the fact that I missed something. He did say that he sees that a lot on Subaru and Mitsubishi. Has anybody else had a problem with an aftermarket catalytic converter not setting off the check engine light with the cat efficiency code, and if so, which brand. The $850 quoted by Subaru was ridiculously high (I thought), and the brand I put on, although guaranteed to meet all emissions standards, still sets off the CEL. Changing the cat happened shortly after I had to replace one of the 02 sensors (front one). Could the CEL come on as cat efficiency with a somewhat fouled "after-cat" 02 sensor? My mechanic doesn't seem to think so, but I could replace that myself relatively easily for not too much money. For that inquiry, is there any particular brand of 02 sensor that I should stick with?

xwesx · March 2008

I cannot help directly with your questions, but the cat efficiency code pops any time the measured ratio of oxygen between the front sensor (pre-cat) and the rear sensor (post-cat) is not great enough. In my mind, that means either there really is not enough oxygen being combusted in the cat or the measurements taken by the sensors are not accurate. I had the cat efficiency code for 50,000 miles (from about 170,000 miles to 220,000). I had two emissions tests (2004 and 2006) after the first code appeared and the tailpipe readings both those times were better than they had been during 2002's bi-annual test. Considering that, I think my cat was working fine.

There was a problem, mind you, but it was not the cat. I planned on hunting it down last summer, but fate had other plans for the car.

obfan · March 2008

If the cat efficiency code is a function of the difference between the readings of the front and rear O2 sensors, and the sensor(s) are not accurate but the cat is working properly, might it help to try switching the two sensors (front to rear and rear to front)?

- just a thought

bufwxguy · March 2008

LOL! I thought maybe effective to 100,001 miles! The leak was bad enough that I had to fill the coolant reservoir jug every 2 to 3 days prior to the additive. Seemed to leak worse when engine went through a greater thermal range, such as after a cold start on a 0F morning through warm up phase. No previous problems with the cooling system, did the regular 30K and 60K flushes, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks.

jfl · March 2008

It's good that you are keeping a close eye on the coolant level, be sure to carry premixed coolant in the trunk.

Next check the temp gauge often while driving, if you get low on coolant, you don't want to overheat the engine.

Assume that at somepoint, you will need to replace the headgasket.

Even with the additive, my HG went at 120k miles. It's now over 170k and has been problem free since the HG change. Remember, a headgasket is less expensive than a new car.

dave1620 · March 2008

Hello--The vehicle is a 2001 Legacy GT wagon automatic. For the past 6 or so months, the CEL will come on for a week or so and then will go off. This has happened 6 or 7 times. I want to read the codes before I take the car in for the 60k service. Current milage is 62k. What kind of reader do I need? And will that reader work on an '05 Chevy truck?

If the CAT needs to be replaced under warrenty, does it have to go to the dealer or can the work be done by an independent shop? I'd rather not have to go to the dealer if I don't have to.

Thanx---------Dave.......

xwesx · March 2008

You will need an OBD-II reader that is CAN compliant. Most manufacturers moved to CAN between '03 and '04, if I recall correctly.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2008

You have the 2.5 engine? Then you have bad head gaskets. There is an improved head gasket to correct this common problem.

bufwxguy · March 2008

Yes, it's the 2.5. I've been under the car while engine was idling watching it drip from the head gasket on the rear drivers side of the engine so it's definitely the head gasket. Good to know the replacement gasket will correct it, thanks.

bufwxguy · March 2008

I really like Subarus, had various models since 1981 (started with a used BRAT), so I definitely want to keep it going and yes, the HG repair is much cheaper than a new car given prices these days. Other than this and the cold clutch shudder (new clutch at 29K via warranty), my Outback wagon has been problem free. Subaru and local dealer has been good about the clutch and the head gasket coolant service, no hassles and no charge. It's a great, economical AWD that can easily tackle western New York winters. I'll watch that temp gauge like a hawk and keep premixed at the ready, thanks.

paisan · March 2008

If the CAT needs to be replaced under warrenty, does it have to go to the dealer or can the work be done by an independent shop? I'd rather not have to go to the dealer if I don't have to.

It only needs to go to the dealer if you want Subaru to pay for it. Otherwise you can bring it anywhere you want if you are paying

hee hee.

-mike

Mr_Shiftright · March 2008

Yep, my friend who owns a Subaru repair shop assures me that the new gasket corrects the problem.

nerd · March 2008

I have an '06 Legacy Outback 2.5i. A decal on the left side of the instrument panel says that car is equipped with an interior ventilation filter. The filter is mentioned in the Owner's Manual, but there are no instructions about how to change it. The manual doesn't even say where it is.

I would appreciate any help regarding the location of this filter and the procedure for changing it.

The filter housing in my wife's BMW is in plain sight in the engine compartment. Takes all of five minutes to change without tools. I guess Subaru wants their customers to be more highly challenged.

dave1620 · March 2008

Just bought a SUPER CAT Universal OBD2 scanner/reader on e-bay. Hope it works.....

cptplt · March 2008

haven't needed to do it on my 08 Outback yet ,unfortunately its a PITA to change, looks easier than a Tribeca change which is still a zillion times easier than 02 WRXs!
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/airfiltration.html

nerd · March 2008

When did Subaru change the head gaskets on the 2.5L non-turbo engine to eliminate coolant leaks? I have an '06 Outback that was built in early 2006. Should I expect to have coolant leaks eventually? Does Subaru extend the warranty for engines that have had the gaskets replaced?

ateixeira · March 2008

I bought an Actron ODBII scanner, and FWIW it worked on my 98 Forester, my wife's 02 Legacy, and on a friend's Suburban (older, 2 generations back).

ateixeira · March 2008

They revised the gasket material as a running change for 2002 models built in Japan and I think it was 2003 for those made in Indiana.

Your 2006 should have the new material.

nerd · March 2008

That's good news. Thanks for taking time to respond to my question.

ateixeira · March 2008

You're welcome.

If you check the detailed reliability scores in Consumer Reports, you'll notice a dramatic improvement from 2002 to 2004. By '04 all models were better than average. There were some black dots in 01 and 02.

xwesx · March 2008

Yep, as long as there is no warping of the head it should be good. I am still thrilled that I did not replace my head gaskets until 192,000. Granted, they were giving me problems for 10-15,000 miles, but even that is fantastic compared to the problems people frequently saw at well under 100,000 miles.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles