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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • sillyivansillyivan Member Posts: 21
    With a daughter away at college we find ourselves with 3 cars but only 2 drivers. So we've decided to sell our 2000 legacy gt with 85k mile. 5 sp. manual. We've been very diligent about maintenance - taking it to an independent certified Subaru mechanic for the last 8 yrs. Replacing anything that failed or was covered under warranty. So it's in pretty good shape, save for a few minor external cosmetic dings.

    Thought it wise to do one last oil change and get a condition overview before advertising car and was chagrined to learn that the head gaskets are starting to leak. Our mechanic steered us to subaruheadgasket.com Apparently this is quite a common situation - though 3500 miles ago, gaskets were seemingly oil leak free. Sigh.

    Looking back on this car's repair history, I'd have to say from the time it hit around 35k it's been one of the most expensive to maintain that I've ever owned. Our other autos are Mazda and Infiniti.

    My conundrum: shell out about 2k to replace head gaskets (and timing belt) which would be prudent in another 15k miles - and attempt to get a a firm $6500, or price the car around 4500 with the caveat about the head gasket leaks.

    Thanks for any input.

    S
  • chazrchazr Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a used 2002 Outback and have noticed some wierd electrical problems - electrically it seems like the brake lights and the headlights are connected - when you switch one on (turn on headlights or tap the brake pedal) it activates elements of the other. Heres a rundown:

    1. The ABS light goes on and stays on while driving

    2. When the headlights are off, tapping the brakes will turn them on and also switches all of the interior lights to "headlight mode" (clock and radio backlights dim, all buttons will become illuminated).

    2.a This also happens if you tap the brakes when the car is off and the key is out - the radio and interior lights will iluminate, and even the headlights will turn on, although quite dim.

    3. Turning on the headlights with the car off will activate the shift interlock system (that click you hear near the shifter when you depress the brake so that you can take it out of park).

    Any ideas on where to start looking?
  • chazrchazr Member Posts: 2
    Oops, I lied about the shift interlock activating when the car is off. It will activate (allow you to move out of park) if you turn on the headlights or parking lights when the car is ON.
  • sapphirebluesapphireblue Member Posts: 29
    Hi all,

    I own a 2005 Outback 2.5i wagon. Recently my cargo flap (the part that blocks between the extended cover and the hatch) fell off. One of its brackets snapped in half, so it's not as easy as hooking the flap back in place.

    Are there shops or sites that sell just a replacement bracket, or if need be, a whole new flap? I don't think the existing bracket is repairable, and there are times I'd like to be able to shield the whole cargo area from view.

    Thanks,
    sb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You may be stuck going to a dealer, since it's so new.
  • dhall5dhall5 Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone had problems with cracked engine blocks? My husband and I have BOTH had to replace our engines due to this. We've maintained our vehicles very well, and have not abused our cars in any way.

    Both engines were replaced at about 60,000 miles, my husband's last December, and mine this month, when it hit, ironically, about 60,000 miles.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Have not heard of any cracked blocks in those generation engines. Head Gaskets, are a fairly common issue however.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • bdarebdare Member Posts: 1
    My husband drives an outback that has about 150,000 miles on it and after the last service his check engine light came on. He has been told by the Suburu dealer that it is the catalytic converter and will cost $2,500.00 for replacement. Has anyone had to have this done and does this price seem a little steep?
  • dakotadriverdakotadriver Member Posts: 29
    I had the same thing happen to my '01 Outback last fall (with 120,000 miles). My local dealer told me the price was $950 installed so I looked for other options. I found some aftermarket catalytic converters online, but once installed it still had the same problem. I have since learned that Subaru's don't like parts made by anyone but Subaru and that I should have put an official part on it. Nevertheless, I saw an official Subaru cat online for $650, and the installation on my '01 only cost me around $120 so I would definitely look around at other locations as $2,500 seems quite steep, although you might be stuck paying whatever the official Subaru part costs. I would look to see if the part can be obtained somewhere else and then see if an independent shop could install it. Mine was a bolt on and not that complicated to install.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There are two catalytics for this car apparently, front and rear. That can add up if both were bad. I agree, you have to shop around. Labor should not be very much to install.

    Visiting Host
  • dakotadriverdakotadriver Member Posts: 29
    The catalytic converter I purchased (for less than $300) and the official part I was quoted the $950 installed price was both the front and the back combined (with the short piece of pipe connecting the two). I checked and both the 2001 and the 2003 aftermarket part has the same part number, so I still think that $2,500 seems way to steep, unless the official (Subaru) parts are actually different parts and the 2003 part is radically different from the 2001 official part.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the 2003 part would be different and also if it were a California car it would be more expensive.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    No, that does not seem steep. It seems like a downright fleecing! Definitely shop around....

    Also, you might find out the code that was stored in the computer. If it was P0420, "Catalytic Converter Below Threshold," it may be more complicated than a "bad cat." Oxygen sensors that are beginning to gum up with deposits can cause false positives for the P0420 code, and that means if you replace the cat, you might still have the code return.

    Now, if the oxygen sensors are original on the car, and especially if you have noticed a drop in fuel economy either lately or gradually, it may certainly be time to change the sensors. I think they are somewhere around $100 each.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Personally I'd buy a generic (1 or 2) high flow cat from the web and have a local exhaust shop cut out your old ones and replace them with the new generic cats. They run about $150/each on the web and installation probably another $150/each.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • dakotadriverdakotadriver Member Posts: 29
    I was told by the local exhaust shop that no generic cat. converters would fit on the Subaru. I was told by another mechanic, after I kept having the same problems with the check engine light coming on (P0420 - Cat inefficiency) after putting the aftermarket part on that (on the forums used by mechanics) they have found that Subaru's seem to not play well with others (i.e., they only seem to like genuine Subaru parts). When my alternator went out earlier this year they tried replacing it with a non-Subaru alternator and it wouldn't fix the problem, but when they put the genuine Subaru part on it worked fine. Has anyone had luck with a non-Subaru cat? Just curious.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    It's Thursday and that means time again for the longest running chat here in CarSpace, the Subaru Crew! The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight for another enjoyable evening with members of the Crew!
    See you there!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you have engine overheating?

    Cracked blocks are rare. Gaskets fail and then overheat, and some times the heads end up warped. That's more common. I wonder if that's what your mechanic meant? Warped heads?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    No, not with a cat. I have used many other non-subaru parts (including a solenoid for a starter) and never had any issues at all.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup I use magnaflow high flow cats. You have to have a muffler place weld on the flanges from the old cat and the bung for the O2 sensor.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • dakotadriverdakotadriver Member Posts: 29
    I am glad to hear that non-official parts still work (at least sometimes). I suspected that I might need a new oxygen sensor, but my mechanic said he did not think that was the problem. I had to replace (I believe) the front sensor a couple of years ago but have not replaced the other sensor. I might try to replace the other sensor just to see if that makes a difference since, as someone said, they are relatively inexpensive and I am sure that the other sensor is the original (129k miles). Do you think that this could be the reason I keep getting a P0420 code reading?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It could definitely be the sensor. What happens is that the first O2 sends a signal and then the 2nd one sends a signal the ECU compares them and if there isn't a large enough difference in what it's sensing, it throws a code.

    Do you smell rotten eggs behind the car? That's a sign that your cat is shot. If it's clogged then you'll have real poor acceleration and the car will feel choked.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    He's also right at the "due date" for a cat failure on that particular car. Mine went at 130K right on the button, right on schedule, along with the head gaskets.
  • tollertoller Member Posts: 1
    Hi there, I just bought this 2002 legacy wagon standard. 110,00- kms original owner bought new tirwes. I now have 119,000 on it and noticed alot of difference in performance since 1st purchased 6 mos ago. Firstly, the engine is much louder than before, the radio sucks, and whenever I turn sharp into parking spots I hear a strange noise and feel vibration in the tires or wheels. My hubby thinks it's the AWD grabbing the cement??? It seems to be getting worse. Oh yeah, and my check engine light never goes off apparently its the fuel sensor?? HELP ANYONE???
  • pilot1226pilot1226 Member Posts: 166
    Hmm, sounds like you said kilometers here. I'm not entirely sure what the US conventional equivalent is, but here's some things to keep in mind:

    A louder noise from the engine, when and where do you notice it? Is this something with idling while you're stationary, or all the time? I wonder if this could be the sign of a new muffler? (I replaced a muffler on my `01 Civic about a year ago at ~80,000 miles.)

    Why does the radio suck? Is it a setting that possibly could have been changed (my young nieces love playing with the knobs on the radio and I caught them changing the bass way up accidentally, making the sound ... suck.) Check your settings, set the treble/bass/fade/balance to where you want it. Perhaps you were overzealous with the bass and blew the speaker? See if it's coming from just one speaker, or if the bad sound is from all.

    Other thing, check your CD. Try other CD's compared to radio. This'll tell you if it's a signal reception issue, or an audio issue.

    I'm pretty sure that Subarus in 2002 had the all-time AWD, so I don't think that when you make a sharp turn the AWD suddenly kicks on as you suggest. This could possibly be something related to the axle (the forum gurus can explain better I'm sure), but from the perspective of a novice do-it-yourselfer, I'd say just pop the hood and check on the fluid levels of your power steering. Per your owner's manual, if you're taking a sharp turn as to moving the wheel to the extreme side (where you can't turn it in that direction any more), you should not hold it in this position for more than 6 seconds or you could damage the Power Steering pump.

    If your fuel sensor is throwing out an error code, it's possible that the wrong ratio of fuel:air is being deposited into the combustion chambers, which could explain why it sounds like it's running a little rough around the edges. Error codes are never a good thing, stop by AutoZone and get the OBD II checked for free.

    Good luck!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    Regarding the engine noise, please describe it, if possible. The first thing I suggest is to check your oil, if you do not do that regularly. Subaru engines are very temperamental when it comes to oil level. You do not want them over full or very low. If the oil level is low, the likely sound you here is the valve lifters "clacking." Topping off the oil as indicated by the dipstick should silence the noise almost immediately. Again, though, this is just a guess without you offering more of a description.

    Radio - not going to touch it. Pilot's suggestions are probably as good as any in the absence of a description.

    Noise on turning: One of two things - either it is a differential on the fritz or it is a CV joint in one of the front axles. If the sound is just a grinding when turning sharply in *one* direction, it is a CV joint. If the car shudders (vibrates badly) and there is chirping from the tires when you turn sharply in either direction, that is a differential. I would hope for the CV joint. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    Hi,
    My 2000 Outback has made a noise when making right turns since the day I purchased it with 56K on it. It now has 92K and it is more of an annoyance than anything else since it really has not gotten any worse. It is a a rotational shudder type of sound that increases or decreases in intensity depending upon the speed that I'm travelling in the turn. It also is more pronounced the tighter the turn. It does not do the same thing on left turns which leads me to believe it may be in the right axle(?) I have replaced the front brake rotors twice thinking that one may be warped but it didn't resolve the problem. I had it to the dealer once and maybe it was Murphy's law or they just didn't feel like investigating it but they told me they didn't notice anything wrong. Any suggestions???
    Thanks!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    Is it *only* a sound, or can you feel that shudder at all? The way you describe it makes me think that you have a bad bushing on the driveshaft for the rear wheels. But, I would expect the noise to be accompanied by a slight to significant accompanying shudder that is felt (like someone is thumping the bottom of the car).

    My '96 Outback did this when I purchased at 83,000 miles. I do not think it would have been a major issue if I had never addressed it, but it probably would cause some premature wear on the driveshaft components. A used replacement part was $230, but I never had the issue again after 140,000 additional miles.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    It's only a sound, not a vibration. I'm extra confused now though because I just read another posting here from a guy with a similar issue right on down to the fact that it occurs on right turns only. He thought it could be wheel bearings and that was what was recommended for changing by Teixeira. If this is the case, is it a difficult job to tackle by a backyard mechanic like myself?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    That it might be, if it is early in the failure process. I think those years required the bearing to be pressed though, which would require specialized equipment. So, if it is a pressed bearing, then yes, for a backyard mechanic it would be difficult. :(
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    First thing to inspect if you hear odd noises are the wheel bearings. Start there.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Depending on the noise, I'd agree with Wes that it may be an axle.

    A bearing is not easy to change especially not without a press.

    Checking the bearing is pretty easy, shaking the wheel you'll hear a tinny noise similar to putting pressure on the sides of a soda can and there will be slight movement in the wheel in/out as you push on the sidewall.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • rgowenrgowen Member Posts: 3
    I have a 2002 legacy that had the EXACT same problem. It is the differential. Mine would be fine when the car was cold, but not fine when it got hot (maybe about 30 minutes of driving). The differential gears got screwey. $700 part. The way you know is if the car is stationary and you can move the wheel back and forth no problem but it gives you trouble at low speeds in either direction. I have a manual transmission and those cars have a different system verus automatics. My check engine light is on right now, but the last time is was the ignition control sensor and the car would cut out every once in a while. I need to take it back in. I like the car, but it has sort of been a maintenance headache.
  • rgowenrgowen Member Posts: 3
    Hi-

    I'll roll two issues into one post.

    1. I hate first gear in my car. Unless I over-gas it, the car shutters when it gets going. Anyone else have this issue? I bought the car 3 years ago and it's been a problem the whole time. The dealer said the clutch plate is the problem but it's nothing to worry about.
    2. I feel like there is too much wind noise on the driver's side. It seems like there is a leak. Anyone else have that issue? Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds like clutch chatter to me, and I do think it's the pressure plate the dealer mentioned.

    We had a 2002 Legacy and while we did not have that issue, I always felt the throttle was not linear at all, but rather an on/off switch that made it hard to make smooth starts.

    We also had a slight wind leak on the driver's window seal, but opening and closing the window would quiet it. You can adjust the window angle to try to quiet it. bitman did that on an Outback and documented the procedure in the Legacy/Outback thread a while ago.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    my 02 WRX had the infamous clutch shudder, SOA were replacing them for free if people complained, don't know if it applied to Legacy/outbacks too.
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    That was it! I took it to the dealer and they diagnosed it as bad wheel bearings. $680 later, the only groaning I hear now is myself when I open my wallet. They also informed me that I have a small oil leak coming from one of the heads, and for a mere $690, they can fix that too. I told them I'd keep topping off the oil (which is barely perceptible) and put newspaper on my gagrage floor for a while till I can save up the $. Does that number seem a bit steep to you? One other question, with that name, are you Brazilian?
  • dhartzelldhartzell Member Posts: 1
    This past June I bought a 2006 Outback 2.5i w/28,000 miles from NJ Avis. It's now got roughly 33,300 miles on it, and while I've done basic things like occasionally check the oil and coolant, maintain the tire pressure, and keep track of gas mileage (which has been around 26/27 mpg) I haven't had the car serviced. (I did have it inspected in NY state, which is required by law if you buy a used car out of state.)

    So this past week I joined my.subaru.com and was flagged for 30,000 mile/30 month maintenance -- both overdue. I found a nearby Subaru dealer in Rye, New York, made an appointment, and asked how much this 30/30 maintenance would cost. Answer: $649 plus tax.

    Here's what my.subaru.com says 30/30 maintenance consists of:

    Recommended Inspection Fuel systems, lines and connections
    Inspect Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft]
    Inspect Camshaft drive belt
    Replace Engine oil
    Replace Engine oil filter
    Perform Replace engine coolant and inspect cooling system, hoses and connections
    Replace Air cleaner element
    Replace Spark plugs
    Inspect Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil)
    Inspect Automatic transmission fluid
    Replace Brake fluid
    Inspect Disc brake pads and discs, front and rear axle boots and axle shaft joint portions
    Inspect Brake linings and drums
    Perform Inspect brake lines and check operation of parking and service brake system
    Inspect Clutch operation
    Inspect Steering and suspension
    Perform Rotate and Inspect Tires

    Is this service worth $649 -- essentially $700 with tax -- and, if not, what should I do instead?

    I haven't had any problems with the car so far ... it's driven just fine.
  • ponytrekkerponytrekker Member Posts: 310
    Basically a tire rotation, oil change, brake, cooling and tranny fluid change. Seems like way too early to change plugs but that's me.

    Everything else is an "inspection."

    If you can eyeball hoses brakes and stuff, I'd just bring the car to an indie. My guess is you'd be saving yourself $300 at least.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I run a subaru specific shop in NNJ and we do the 30k mile service all the time (did one yesterday actually) and we charge $365 for the same 30k but with Amsoil Synthetic fluids. We charge an additional $75 for non-platinum plugs but usually only do those at 60k intervals.

    Dealers charge way way too much. If you need any other info shoot me an e-mail paisan@azpinstalls.com and I can get you specifics.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was just reading another thread and someone said they paid $600, which is in the same ballpark. Ask for a discount, dealers will usually agree to 10% off or so.

    You guessed it, I'm Brazilian.
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    Muito Prazer e obrigado amigo!
  • philliptaylorphilliptaylor Member Posts: 1
    i have a problem with my AWD unit. i have taken it into a local subaru dealership to have it checked out and they said that there is nothing wrong with it. every time i leave my place i have to go through mud a junk. well one day i ended up getting stuck and had to call in to work because of it. has anyone had this problem. if you have let me know because i dont what to go and replace something if it is any easy do it yourself fix. i am very limited on my money do to my hours being cut back
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Could it be the tires? I know that it may seem far fetched but perhaps they weren't gripping?

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • maryp3177maryp3177 Member Posts: 6
    Hello,

    I have a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback with a bazillion miles on it (270,000) but it still runs great; I have been very happy with this car (even happier because it was a gift from a friend last year!)

    I let the windshield washer fluid reservoir stay empty for approx 3 months. Last weekend, I put new RainX fluid in said reservoir, pressed the button for the fluid and nothing came out; I don't even hear the pump working like I usually did. What's even more interesting is that the rear one works; although, it shoots out fluid like it has prostate problems or something, so I don't really use it, but the pump works.

    Any suggestions? Is there a fuse I can replace? (I know nothing about cars, obviously).

    Perplexed in Albuquerque
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My guess is there are 2 seperate motors, but I could be wrong.

    A lot of pumps are cooled by the fluids they pump, so that could be why it failed - overheating. That happens to fuel pumps when the tank runs on empty, for instance.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    Yes, there are two pumps. One is set lower on the reservoir than the other - the lower one is the pump for the front. I cannot say for sure where the fuse is located (I seem to remember there being two fuse panels - one under the hood, near the reservoir itself, and another under the dash on the left side of the car - but am unsure as to which would contain the washer fuses). I would think replacement of the motor to be inexpensive, so if there does not look to be a fuse problem, try looking for a used motor.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I happen to have a photo of my dad's Outback's fuse box under the hood, and saw no label for a Windshield Washer pump, so it's probably inside.

    It would be by your left knee, under the dash.

    Pop off the cover. The cover itself should have labels. For instance, under the hood, there is a fuse labeled "Fog" for the fog lights.

    Hopefully you see something like "Washer" or "WW", something like that. Take a peek.
  • gjksngjksn Member Posts: 35
    I have a 2003 Legacy wagon (45,875 miles) and have been told that my brakes are 90% in the front and 40% in the rear. I thought it would be the other way around. In any event, my dealer told me they don't replace them until they're down to 20%. Is that true, or should I be getting them replaced right away? :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Go with the dealer, but have it checked again at 60k since that's about the pace you've been on for replacement with 20% left.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,790
    If you have never had the front pads replaced, then I think that is rather odd. The fronts should always wear faster than the rears. If you have had the fronts replaced once, then the rear pads are on pace. The rear pads on my Subaru lasted about 30-40% longer than the front pads. I replaced the fronts at about 125,000 and the rears at around 192,000. Overall longevity, of course, is entirely situational. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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