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2005 Echo Hatchback.....I love mine too!
Check Engine light came on. Dealer:
Cause: scanned for codes has P044 evap vent control curcuit
inspected system and found pressure control vsv faulty
(vsv at cannister)
Correction: requires charcole canister
$373 parts + $90 labour plus taxes
My question....what if I don't replace it? What difference will it make? Will it cause any damage to anything else?
Answer.....check engine light will remain on so check engine will be no good for alerting you to anything else. Poorer fuel efficiency. No damage to anything else.
So I decided not to replace it.
And in publicly griping with many others about the petty annoyances of Check Engine lights, I learned that you can buy a code-checking device on sale for only $50. Good to know.
Anyway, sometime after that I had trouble filling up. (Maybe my first fillup?) On an empty tank, it kept clicking off immediately, as though it was full. And on some attempts, the gas would all gush out. I tried a different pump. Then a different gas station. Then my husband tried it and asked if I used to have a little metal flap (sound familiar?) Yes! I did, now that he mentioned it. We figured it must have broken off and gotten pushed inside, and was blocking the tube.
The guy at the dealership asked if I had the little metal flap, because some did and some didn't. I was pretty sure I did, but began to have doubts. Maybe I was thinking of my old Tercel?
Long story, back and forth, different theories, odd approach to the problem had me doing some research while they had my car, and I ran across your post.
Ultimately:
Cause: ....Checked fuel lines to tank
okay - codes P0441 and P0446 present incorrect purge flow
and vent control curcuit. Checked previous ro - charcoal canister recommended. Still requires canister. Replaced.
And I filled up just fine today.
So I guess that was it. Though I'm wondering where the two new codes came from.... And I'm still sure I had a little metal flap. And shouldn't they KNOW which cars had it and which didn't?!
I look forward to hearing what happens with yours.
Good luck!
I think they all have flaps?
I have a 2000 Echo 4-door that around 95k was having a problem exactly like what you describe, a vibration that shakes the vehicle when driving at highway speeds, except my Echo had not had any work done on the tires prior to the vibration issue starting. I drove it like that for maybe 2-3k miles (I don't drive at highway speeds much) until I finally took it in to the local shop to have the tires rotated and balanced. After the work was done, the vibration was gone.
The car was also pulling pretty badly to the right side, so I thought I needed an alignment, but the shop said there are sometimes tires they call "puller tires" that just don't track straight. After the rotate & balance was done it also helped the pulling problem quite a bit.
I'd suggest taking it back and just asking them to take a look at it... there shouldn't be any charge for them to try rotating or rebalancing your new tires if you feel they did something wrong. I would hazard a guess that episodes like these are what keeps the local tire shops in business - otherwise we'd all be getting our tires at the big box store - but I suppose you could argue that the same experienced people with the same tools are working at your big box store... with that in mind, if you don't resolve the problem at your Walmart, I'd go straight to a local tire shop.
With the engine COLD remove the radiator cap and check for coolant. Also, there is a white plastic bottle for coolant on the side of the radiator closest to the resr bumper. If they are empty fill them with coolant.
Go to the right side of the engine compartment ENGINE OFF> There are two belts. The rear most one is the power steering. The other one that drives the laternator also drives the water pump. See if the belt is really loose. If it is thats why the car is over heating.
Take the car to a shop. Tow it dont drive it.
Good luck and tell us what happens or if you have more questions.
Joel40
I know a certain amount of noise is normal, and otherwise the car runs fine. I checked the valve clearances & they're all OK. I suspect (hope?) it's no big deal, and that I just notice it more than in my 06 scion xB (same engine) because the soundproofing isn't as good.
But I'm curious whether any others on this forum thought the valve train noise seemed worse on your Echo than on other small 4cyl cars you've driven. Would like to compare it to another Echo, but they're VERY rare around here (Dallas/Fort Worth). Don't know anyone who has one.
Is chain tension something I could check with just the valve cover off? (If so, I missed my chance when I was checking the valve clearances :-(
Pinging generally occurs under load--so at lower rpm going up a hill for instance. Pinging can occur even when the engine runs smoothly, and high test gas does not always cure it.
valve train noise usually gets better as the engine warms up, but worse as the engine goes under load.
Another similar sound is a leaking exhaust manifold gasket.
Must be something other than the valves although it could be the chain/tensioneer.
Good luck and tell us what you find out!
Took it to a local Toyota dealer & drove around with a mechanic to see what he thought. It wasn't making the noise quite as much on that drive (of course!), but he didn't think it was worth worrying about. Had wondered about it being related to the variable valve timing gizmo, but he said that would probably generate a code. So I've decided to ignore it!
Incidentally, the dealer (Freeman Toyota in Hurst, TX) refused my offer to pay for the mechanic's time. Have had some bad experiences there in the past, but hafta give 'em credit for this one.
Just got back from a 2500 mi roundtrip with my daughter, and it ran great - over 40 mpg (it's an automatic). Pretty good for a car I got for effectively $3000 a year and a half ago (an even trade for an older minivan). And I was making no effort to get high mpg; was as much over the speed limit as I thought I could get away with. High gas prices didn't bother me too much...
But keep the problem in mind and your ears open for others with the same issue.
The answer may come to you yet.
How many miles on it?
tHE echo IS ONE OF THE BEST CARS EVER built in terms of function and reliability.
Keep a hold on your like grim death. I paid $3000 FOR MY SONS echo WITH 117K ON IT FIVE YEARS AGO.
It has 185k PLUS on it now.
Except for a MAF sensor nothing HAS GONE WRONG WITH IT.
The car (an '02) had about 68K in August 2010 when I bought it. Pretty low mileage; I think it may have been the stereotypical "little old lady's" car, as my wife found some kind of hair net in the glove compartment that she says is used mostly by older ladies.
Forgot to mention that I also paid $400 to get a dent fixed after I bought it, plus about $100 on various partially successful attempts at removing a cigarette smoke smell. So it's about a $3500 car, and may be my favorite of all the cars I've owned.
It has 95k miles now, and I hope to keep it until parts become unavailable, or a combination of cheap plug-in hybrids and $8 gas occurs (the gas price I could see, but...)
A Prius only saves $2000 on gas over 100k miles compared to an ECHO and it costs nearly $30,000.
Unlikely you will ever be unable to get parts for it.
I would gladly pay you $3500 for it!
Knew there was NO WAY that would ever make financial sense, but figured I'd enjoy the energy-geek thrill of driving around without using gas.
Fortunately for my finances, I stumbled onto the Echo...
But NO WAY I can pay $30,000 for one.
What are those freaking MORONS thinking?
I doubt they're getting rich selling them even at that high price, since they're such low-volume products. We need for lots of other people to buy them for a few years, then later decide they hate the car, so there'll be cheap used ones available...
But I doubt they will sell enough of them to make that possible.
What we need a CHEAP good SMALL cars.
Smaller than the ECHO even.
We're going to have to take a hit on safety and prolly emissions for that to happen.
At present i dont see it happening...
Thinking I might change mine around 100k. Read that it's a pain, with not really enough clearance on the side.
Basicially all we have done is change the oil, filters, and sparkplugs every 30 k miles.
Yes I think you want to put a jack with a board over it under the engine on the right side and undo the right side motor mount and lower the engine slightly for clearance.
Loosen the three bolts in the middle of the wp pully before loosening the belt.
If it were me I would leave it alone. Theres reports of Yaris wp's failing early (mine did( but the ECHO doesnt have that.
just a note: the check engine light is ALWAYS on, for like the last 3 years! (of course it has been in the shop during that time) I've disconnected the battery and it never goes off.
Most CELs do no harm to the car but some do. Have Auto Zone read the code for free and we will tell you what it is and what to do.
Maybe!
That is definately the first thing you should do.
Also it is the likely suspect.
Tell us what you find and good luck!
I checked the individual fuses in the box to see if any are blown. The tiny individual fuses all look good however the larger box like fuses just unplug and I cannot see any way to determine if one is blown, although the largest one of these does have a small hole in one side of it that looks like it's not supposed to be there. I doubt such a large fuse would be for the cigarette lighter however. .... Any ideas??
These are in the inside fuse block near your left leg; there's one under the hood too, and it has a couple of spares in #'s 1 & 2 that you could try swapping with your suspected bad one if they're the same size.
I'd bet Auto Zone would check the fuse for you if you don't have a meter to measure electrical resistance. Should be 0; will be infinite if blown.
I am looking for someone to say, either yes, I had the valve clearances adjusted and it made a huge difference, or no, I haven't ever had that done, and my echo has a million miles on it and is still fine.
Its never had an adjustment check and at the rate its going it probably never will.
Years ago I wrote a proceedure for CHECKING the ECHOs valve clearances in this very forum! I ride motorcycles and have done it twice myself.
Glad to hear your son's Echo is still ticking along nicely. Thanks again for the help.
Actually though, just as a point of information, if your valve clearance was too loose, you'd hear it, you're quite right, but if it were too tight, you probably wouldn't notice it, and tight valves could cause valve damage.
If you're in for the long haul, you might consider checking the clearance at some point in the future.
Valve clearances do not get looser....they get tighter. The valve wears down into the valve seat in the head. This results in the clearance getting less not more. The clearance can get really loose with no harm down other than noise. But if the clearance goes to zero then the valve burns, the engine loses compression and the only way to fix it is an expensive valve job.
Problems with the clearances will NOT throw a CEL code. Yes mpg and power will go down. But by the time you notice that the dammage is done your car needs $$$$ work.
Although it is common to let the clearance inspection go, and truly in most cases that is a safe decision, to play it really safe an inspection would be the safest bet. In this economy a car like the ECHO can be a godsend. They are cheap to run and reliable as they come. If you are heavily dependent on your ECHO finanically wise you might consider CHECKING the clearances. I have a proceedure buried somewhere in all these posts. Its not much harder than changing sparkplugs. If the clearances are good than so is your engine. If they are not haveing them fixed could be a lifesaver.
Just FYI!
I also get a rumbling/ticking noise when my car is accelerating up to 40mph. It stops if I go faster than that or keep accelerating, but the noise is constant if I am going less than or around 40mph. I did have to have my alternator replaced along with my battery, which it drained. I know that these occurrences happen in other Echoes as well. The AutoCare center I have been taking my car to for the past few years has no idea how to fix my problems. They just charge me for new parts. I was hoping someone might know what things I should ask my other mechanic to look at. I'm hopelessly car illiterate. Thank you!