Mazda RX-8

pathstar1 · December 2003

Check out Garmin's site for more info on their systems. They work quite well. For a few dollars more ;-) they have a system that requires it to be "built in". It includes "dead reckoning" so even if you are in the middle of tall buildings cutting off GPS sat. coverage, it can guide you. Radio World has good prices on their systems, if you are wondering how much.

Rodut, you need to calm down a bit. We've been working on the ABS and DSC system for a few weeks (trying to fool them so we can get good dyno readings). There isn't much that I can see happening that will cause loss of control that you are worried about. They were very well designed. If you do almost anything to try to fool them they generate a fault signal and shut down. This is what we are trying to get around, as on the dyno the system sees the front wheels stationary and the rears spinning, and generates a fault condition, causing the engine to loose a lot of power (going into a "safe" condition in which you can't get yourself in too deep).

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

rodut's post was a multiple post and so resides in one forum only, not here.

Host

cheezeboy · December 2003

Hey all, I have a question about the tires. If we here who drive our cars "slightly harder" than average and go by the 5K mile oil change theory, that would mean that our tires are being pushed harder as well. So that means the life expectancy of the Potenza's would be less, correct? I am curious as to what that would be.

and if you want to see something silly, go here:
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/tour/popup.html

graphicguy · December 2003

Typically, high performance tires will not last as long as "regular" tires.

Just a guess, but I'd say I'll get no more than about 20K-25K miles out of mine....could easily be less.

flatso · December 2003

I can get a base 6 sp for $24,900 about $400 under invoice. My question is do you think it is worth spending a bit more for the sports package or the touring package? Will I miss the Dynamic Stability Control and Xenon lights? Also is the base radio that bad? Seems like such a good price for such a sweet car but it's still alot of money so I want to be sure before I buy

graphicguy · December 2003

Honestly, I've never seen a base car or driven one. Only you can answer whether it's worth "stepping up to get the goodies".

As for me, I woudln't want to be without the HIDs or the dsc (or the leather or the Bose)...

carliker · December 2003

If you are willing to put up the money for the base version, there should be no reason not to put a little more in getting at least the sports package. You are getting the RX-8 because it's sporty and fun. The upgraded stereo is worth it. One of the best parts of the vehicle and one of the best I've ever heard. The base stereo isn't very good from what I've gathered so it must be quite an upgrade. The xenon lights are also something I couldn't do without. Not only are they just down right cool for a sports car, but you finally get to blind the people headed your direction instead of the other way around. I actually didn't even consider a couple of vehicles because they didn't either come with xenon lights or had them as an expensive option. BMW and Audi figure they can squeeze more money out of potential buyers by adding xenon lights as an option since they know the lights do add a lot to the car.

motokichi · December 2003

how is the RX in the rain?
i'm also considering an S2000, which seems notorious for being difficult in the wet.

carliker · December 2003

All rear wheel vehicles are going to be tougher to drive in the rain. Possible solution: Don't drive the RX-8 or S2000 that you get in the rain!

graphicguy · December 2003

While carliker is correct, I actually drove my RX8 home in a torrential downpour from the dealer when I first bought mine. I was fairly amazed at how well the car handled in such conditions. I've driven it in the rain several times since then with no problem.

That said, I didn't attempt to really "push" the car in inclement weather, either.

Although, I haven't driven mine in the snow, reports are that it isn't a good idea unless you get dedicated snow tires for it.

carliker · December 2003

What is it with the rain? Same thing happened to me.

sphinx99 · December 2003

I don't think the S2000 is that terrible to drive in the rain either. You just have to be somewhat careful.

Snow is an entirely different story.

graphicguy · December 2003

Irritating....you go to pick up your new car and the skies open up. Only thing worse, I suppose, would be to have a flock of diarea inflicted pigeons let loose on your car as you drive it from the dealership's parking lot.

carliker · December 2003

I suppose that would be worse...very much so!

graphicguy · December 2003

See the picture here at Edmunds in their report from the L.A. autoshow...striking resemblence of the Chevrolet SS to the RX8.

tracker8 · December 2003

I have been reading postings about getting HP numbers from Dyno testing. It sounds like one of the problems the Dyno guys are having is defeating the DSC program in the ECU. It sounds like the ECU/DSC programs expect speed signals from the front wheels. Because they are using a Chassis Dyno, the front wheels aren't turning so the speed signals arn't present. It sounds like the guys are having trouble "fooling" the ECU into thinking the front wheels are turning. I have a suggestion for them. Simply "inject" a speed signal using a function generator. I don't know, but I suspect the speed sensors installed on the wheels are simply magnetic pickups that produce voltage pulses dependent on wheel speed. As the speed of the wheel increases the frequency of the pulse will increase. They can use the function generator to produce the same speed pulses, connect them to the ECU speed signal input pins and presto, the ECU thinks the wheels are turning.

motokichi · December 2003

i'm glad it only snows around here once every 20 years or so.

driving my mild powered 240SX in the rain presents no problems. with the M, it was no problem - until i foolishly pushed it a little too hard on a rainy night in near freezing temp. i figure it will not be a problem with the S or the RX as long as one modulates the throttle with proper finesse. I just wonder if one car is more forgiving or easier to drive in those conditions.

by the way, saw an RX-8 commercial for the first time, if anyone had any doubts about this being anything less than a sports car, that one ought to convince them otherwise. amazing drift sequences.

graphicguy · December 2003

I would expect the same behavior in the rain with the RX8 as you have with the 240....maybe a little better with track control on the RX8.

Tires are still the key in the snow, though.

graphicguy · December 2003

Long article in a recent NY Times. I won't post the whole thing, but here's their conclusion....

"The RX-8 works because it drives better than competitors like the 350Z and the Audi TT. In the RX-8, Mazda has created a wonderful sports car and a worthy successor to the RX-7."

qbrozen · December 2003

sorry if anyone already posted this and i missed it, but, according to autoweek, the nominees for North American Car of the Year have been narrowed down to 3 cars. RX8, Caddy XLR, and Toyota Prius. OH, and, just FYI, the Caddy SRX is also one of the final 3 truck nominees. So it seems they have quite a bit to brag about.

bigmike5 · December 2003

I like the RX-8 a lot, and think the Prius sucks--M/T "Car of the Year" my butt, however I got to see an XLR at the dealer's coming out party for the 2004's and it was in black. The buyer let the dealer keep it over the weekend for the party, and I have to say it was truly spectacular. Without a doubt from what I saw, and what's been written about it by the critics, it should easily be the car of the year. Having said that, sadly, I did not have the bucks to buy one, or the two years to wait that the salesperson said it would take to get one. They had an allotment of 6 for this year, and had like 25 people with down payments on the waiting list. A dealer in Cal. told them if anyone declined to take the car and they had no other buyer, they would pay $15K over sticker and the cost of shipping to the west coast just to get another one. Only thing I did not care for was the blond color wood [only color available] on the console and interior parts.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Innovation should be a big part of Car of the Year don't you think? RX8 seems to have that in body config, engine and styling, all solidly engineered and refreshing to look at.

motokichi · December 2003

i read this review and thought that the author would have preferred a straight 2 door 2+2. He also makes an argument for a hatchback design being more useful.

seems to me that with a hatch they would have to get rid of the two little doors to maintain the rigidity. any ME's out there?

the XLR is a fine car, but it does not break new ground. in terms of significance, i think the Prius first, then RX-8 second.

graphicguy · December 2003

COTY depends on how the writers look at the cars. XLR is limited production, so that probably would be a strike against it.

So, it boils down to the Prius, which is a $20K car that happens to get 50 MPG and, from all reports, acceptable ride, room and performance. Or, it's the RX8, with the return of the rotary (best one yet), coupe styling with a useable back seat and 4 doors, and scintilating performance/handling.

My obvious choice would be the RX8.

rorr · December 2003

Hmmmm.....Prius vs. RX-8 for COTY. I dunno.

My heart goes for the RX-8. When I'm ready to make a new car purchase in the next couple of years, I'll probably go with the RX (unless rumors of a new Supra come to fuition). But my dad just bought a new Prius a couple of weeks ago.

That is one very surprising little car. The amount of technology and innovation in that thing is amazing. And yes, the ride, room, and acceleration is MORE than just acceptable. I've got a 36" inseam and had more than ample room in the back seat. The ride was pretty decent (although the tire noise was a bit much; combination of reduced sound deadening material, low-rolling resistance tires, and virtual lack of ANY exhaust noise). And the acceleration was actually surprising (this may be an illusion; the electic motor has a LOT of torque right off the line which adds a lot to the feeling of acceleration; with 4 adults on board we had no trouble keeping up with traffic).

I like the RX better (just because it's more of my kind of car) but the Prius is a very surprising piece.

graphicguy · December 2003

Prius and RX8 both are amazing cars. Although, I've never driven the Prius, from all accounts, it's a "goodun".

That said, most COTY journalists, put a higher priority on performance.

As good as the Prius may be, it's not a performance vehicle.

sphinx99 · December 2003

The RX-8 in many ways isn't. I like the RX-8, really enjoyed my test drive of it. However, I liked it because it was pretty much a Prelude with a few years of refinement. The RX-8 is the latest refinement of a vehicle in a category that's been around forever - the light, nimble, precise, sporty, decent-looking, marginally-practical sports coupe. A category that along with the RX-8 includes a new Z, a well-aged RSX, a nimble Celica, an agile SVT Focus, now a sporty Mazda 3 coupe, a Mini, and a potent Golf. And plenty of other cars have come and gone within this category over the years.

I'm not sure I'd say that the RX-8 is convincingly better than any of these cars in every possible way... it's just another contestant, albiet a very good one.

Whereas the Prius really is a standout. The Civic Hybrid is the only thing with four wheels that even comes close.

cheezeboy · December 2003

Before GGuy goes off.....

I've driven a Prelude....ah...a bit more than a "few years of refinement"....I was never able to take a 20 mph curve @ 60 in Prelude.....LOL...but if I didn't feel happy/content/excited/overjoyed about my RX8, then I never would've bought!....drive what makes you happy, and hopefully the COTY voters will be happier in the RX8!!

but anyway, just wanted to wish all the great ones here a very Merry Christmas!!......If it warms up to 75 tomorrow, I will ride a lap at the beach for all of you!!.....Cheers!!

vdubtime · December 2003

about you guys is that you're all so happy.
I haven't posted on this board yet but I've been reading it for a while. The RX8 is so beautiful and amazing. I'm hoping to buy a new car in fall of 2004. Right now, the choices are RX8, Z4, WRX STi, Prius, and Honda Insight. Odd mix? Yes, but it represents opposite feelings about cars.

So I appreciate that you can see how both the Prius and the RX8 can contend for COTY.

Postings on this board are generally happy and upbeat and I appreciate that. You seem to think about the RX8 the way I do. It's not about 0-60 times. This car is beautiful and the technology is unique. The interior is perhaps the nicest that I have seen.

I can imagine myself driving it, zipping around curves up in the foothills and thanking those engineers for keeping the rotary alive.

Oh yeah, over on the Prius board, those guys can get pretty crabby and quibble over inane technical details. You guys here are just happier. Merry Christmas to all.

gee35coupe · December 2003

Should be the one that will make the bigger impact on the automotive world. In this world of efficiency, safety, and technology the Prius is head and shoulders above the RX8.

The Prius is a "real" car that gets 50 mpg, is outstandingly clean running, seats four comfortably, at a reasonable price. That sound like something that everyone could appreciate.

The RX8 on the other hand gets poor mileage, does not run particularly cleanly, and has a rather tight interior. Sure it may handle great, but other than that, it's not setting any standards that previous RX7's couldn't better.

vdubtime · December 2003

The RX8 is significantly cleaner than the RX7. An EPA site rates vehicle emissions using a numerical system that allows vehicles in different classes to be compared. The RX8 scored an 8. By comparison, the 5-speed Insight scored 7. (Prius was a 10, of course.) The RX7 isn't even clean enough to sell in the US.

While it may not merit COTY honors, the Renesis engine is a technological advancement in that it is a cleaner rotary.

slices17 · December 2003

Hi,

I am just wondering what kind of gas mileage my fellow RX-8 owners have been getting. I got mine three months ago and haven't driven it a lot. It's got 1250 miles on it. I drove it last weekend when I went out of town. Even on the highway, I am getting only 19 miles per gallon.

Are you guys getting similar gas mileage?

Thanks.

Ray

graphicguy · December 2003

Hello....hello????? (echo, echo, echo). Anybody in here????? (echo)....

Just stopped by after unwrapping all the gifts, spreading joy to loved ones, got the fire in the fireplace stoked, waiting for the "rest of the crowd" to show up with 'nog and Christmas delicacies.

From all that I've read in the automotive press, the RX8 has indeed made quite an impact on the automotive world based on the universal accolades it has received.

The idea of the Prius being "head and shoulders" better than the RX8, personally, I dont' see it. Two very different cars. The only similarity is the fact that they use unique forms of power. One, gets great gas mileage, with the help of an electric motor (albeit the best iteration of such a set-up) while exhibiting mundane sedan tendencies. The other is a powerful update (and a very good one) of one of the most innovative power plants in the history of internal combustion engines, wrapped in a sexy body and interior, with high quality build and materials, that happens to be comfortable while also being among the best handling cars currently on the road.

MPG? The RX8 matches that of the 350Z (according to Edmunds long term test results which pegs the Z between 14-19 MPG). I would assume the G35C would get worse MPG since it is several 100 pounds heavier. I get 17-18 MPG in town, 22-24 MPG on the highway and about 19 MPG in mixed driving.

RENESIS is "dirty"? That's false. As a matter of fact, based on the production vehicle tests, it can meet or exceed LEV pollution standards once it's results are submitted.

Tight interior? Again, don't see that. I'm 6' and 180 lbs and find the interior quite comfy. Now, if you're pushing 250-300 lbs, I could see where you might think it's "tight".

As all the press has said, the RX8, as a stand alone piece, is outstanding...besting the 350Z/G35/Audi TT, among others. It's also been called the "best RX, yet" and a "worthy successor to the famous RX7".

Happy and safe motoring to all over this holiday season.

Best to all....and a special thanks to all the hosts here at Edmunds for allowing (sometimes disallowing) all of us to discuss one of our favorite past times....cars.

"...and to all a good night..."

GRAPHICGUY

golf_nut · December 2003

Who cares how great the Prius technology supposedly is. How many people who bought an RX-8 would even consider a Prius? I don't care how fuel efficient or clean it is. Gas is cheap and plentiful and noboby has invented anything better than the internal combustion engine to power cars. I personally don't buy any of the junk science or wacko environmentalism propoganda pushed by NPR and the rest of the 'sky is falling' crowd.

Let those who want a Prius get one, the rest of us can watch them poking along in our rear view mirrors.

gee35coupe · December 2003

The RX8 is nice sporting auto. But not still not COTY vs. the Prius. More actual drivers will actually be able to actually use what the Prius offers. I'm 6'6' 220 and the Prius fits much better front and rear.

LEV is nice but still not the near NOev the Prius emits.

17 MPG aint 50. So that's not even worth discussing on a COTY scale. Heck a Vette can do mid 20 MPG AND scald a RX8's butt.. with pushrods.

I find it amazing that writers will call this RX better than the last iteration when the last ones only shortcoming versus this one may be in the reliability area. Cause that last RX R1 would literally forget this one existed in a head to head. I wonder why no one has done THAT comparo?

It's not a RX/Prius comparo. I'm just answering the previous question why the RX did not win COTY and the Prius did. Considering the Prius is sold out for months and there are storage lots full of RX's, that should answer that.

As the previous owner of 2 RX7's I don't see the RX8 as that much improved. Adding a back seat never amounted to an improvement. Replacing the readily upgradable RX Turbo engine with this lower hp one doesn't seem much of an upgrade either. I'll take a little vapor lock and poor emmisions to be able to spank nearly anyones butt of the line with a couple of tweaks.

I lament the departure of the 300ZX Twin Turbo but I'm not one of those that finds the 350Z an improvement just because it's here. The interior is like plasticland and the engine is down on power from the last 3.0. That doesn't sounmd like an improvement to me. That's just some other car.

habitat1 · December 2003

Seasons Greetings from Hilton Head!

Coincidentally, I was about to post on this forum what I considered an unusual event, when I see above it might not be.

My niece is in from London and joined our extended for the trip from Atlanta to Hilton Head. We caravaned on Tuesday and she was given the local Mazda general managers personal RX-8 (GT 6-speed w/4,000 miles) to try out. She drove alone (and weighs 110+/- lbs). My wife, brother in law and his wife rode in my 2002 M5 (collective body weight of approximately 650 lbs, plus 150+/- lb of luggage). Here's the tale of the tank when we re-filled up at Hilton Head Exxon:

Distance driven: 316.5 miles (RX8 odometer showed 320 miles for same exact route). Average speed 72 mph (no tickets). Road & weather conditions: flat and perfect.

M5: 12.72 gallons = 24.88 mpg
RX8: 14.45 gallons = 21.90 mpg

For the record, I have also made this run in a neighbor's S2000 and averaged 30+/- mpg at 80 mph with the top down. In my previous 540i 6-speed, I averaged 26+ mpg for the route.

I'm not advocating that golf_nut (of which I am one) or anyone else turn in their RX8 for a Toyota Prius or Honda Civic. But clearly, this is pitiful fuel efficiency for a lightweight car with average power. I actually suspected that the car might have a gas tank leak, but there is no evidence of that after sitting overnight and checking under the car.

The fact that a 400 hp 4,000 lb M5 hauling 800 lb can substantially outaccelerate a 3,000 lb RX8 and get 3 mpg more on the highway suggests to me that Mazda's engineers need to go back to the drawing board. And to think I am the one that paid a bloody $2,200 gas guzzler tax back in 2002!!

I see no benefit whatsoever to rotary technology that requires more fuel to make less power and drinks oil in the process. My niece was told to check the oil at every fill-up. Good God, this is an improvement on the old RX7?? I think not. On most other counts, my niece liked the RX8, but the engine - in terms of both performance and fuel efficiency - is 2-3 rungs down the ladder from the 2.0 liter VTEC used by Honda in the S2000 and even the 3.0 liter inline 6 in her BMW 330ci. Not to mention the likelhood of major rebuilds in 4-5+ years. If Mazda insists on rotary simply to be different, they should at least be hit with a gas guzzler tax based upon real world fuel efficiency below an M5.

graphicguy · December 2003

RX8, 350Z, G35, Audi TT, Benz SLK/Chryco XFire are all competitiors. All bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. All get about the same MPG give or take 10%.

An M5 has it's own weaknesses. Still a nice car, but one that costs about 2X as much as any of those mentioned above.

While I've never owned a 5 Series BMW, I have owned two 3 Series. One good, one bad. While they are fine during the warranty period, whatever minimal $ differences there would be at the pump, my BMWs certainly cost me dearly in maintenance after the warranty period was up.

The amazing part about the RENESIS, is that it puts out so much power from just a 1.3L engine.

Rebuild it at 45K miles? Don't know where that came from as there aren't any out there with that many miles on them yet.

My RX8 hasn't used a drop of oil in 5,600 miles of driving. Still, in ANY car, it's a good idea to check the oil about every other fill-up.

If the RX7 is any guage, the rotaries are capable of 200K+ miles.

If your main criteria is "off the line grunt", then the Corvette is the answer. IF you want turbine smoothness and power throughout the rev range, plus winding out the car to 9K RPMs (which is a thrill, in and of itself), then the RX8 is the only ticket.

The only place to go to get significantly better performance than the RX8 would be the Corvette in my opinion. Of course, those cost significantly more, too. My neighbor has a C5. He gets about 15 MPG cruising around town. He has to put up with the ludacrous "skip shift", however. On the highway, it is amazing, but he does get 26 MPG from a big, honkin' V8.

habitat1 · December 2003

Not quite. I happen to own one of the 30+ highway mpg 9,000 rpm S2000 that is both quicker than and more fuel efficient than the RX-8.

I have also briefly looked into the M3 convertible and, according to the 3-4 M3 owners I've talked to, BMW's seem to get consistently higher mileage on the highway than their EPA ratings (25-27 for the 6-speed M3 vs. a rating of 23/24). Not that fuel efficiency is much of an issue with a sports car, but if Mazda's EPA rating drops 1-2 mpg (as real world performance suggests), they will be subject to a gas guzzler tax which I suspect will significantly hurt sales. They are already selling at or near invoice in the DC area and a $1,000 gas guzzler charge won't help things. And lest you think an EPA rating change isn't possible or likely, the EPA rating on the 2004 S2000 was lowered by 1-2 mpg. Any spec change in the RX8 engine will automatically trigger an EPA review and the repeated reports of below average MPG has also triggered revised EPA ratings in the past. The RX-8 is living on the edge, which, any way you look at it, is not good for a high tech, low torque, "amazing" 1.3 liter engine. Even Porsche has kept the Boxster S and base 911 out of gas guzzler tax trouble.

pathstar1 · December 2003

Based on previous models, I would expect 200,000 mi or more on the engine. Granted, I'm comparing it to the last NA rotary (1991), which had the exhaust port on the rotor housing, but I doubt there is going to be a problem with the side ports. Usually the apex seals wear thin and crack, and that is what determines end of life for a NA rotary (turbo engines usually fail from overheating or turbo boost control system failure causing over-boost and catastrophic failure of the apex seals due to detonation). I would expect the apex seals to last longer with no exhaust port to "ride over".

I'm told by usually reliable sources that the fuel mixture was richened to meet the 120,000 mi mandated life for the cat. This will impact mileage.

I think calling the engine a 1.3L is a bit exagerated, though I know many think that way. In Europe it is considered to be a 2.6L. I think a case could be made that it is 1/2 way between these extremes. It's just too different compared to a piston engine to use the same methods to calculate displacement.

graphicguy · December 2003

My appologies...the S2000 would be the other "hi revver". Of course, there's no back seat and little room in the S2000. That, in my opinion doesn't detract from what the car is, however.

It's one of the best convertibles on the market.

The RX8 plays in a little bit of a different sandbox than the S2000.

I do everything from getting groceries, to throwing my "golf sticks" in the trunk to stuffing the Christmas gifts to be returned in my RX8 (which is what I'm headed off to do)...and do all of that while remaining comfy with a top notch stereo and one of the best combos of quickness/handling cars on the market. What amazes me even more...that such a quick and great handling car can be so comfortable at the same time.

Gas guzzler tax? I get 19 MPG in mixed driving in my RX8 and regularly get low 20s MPG when on the interstate. I don't hardly consider that qualifying as subject to that tax. There are many more people getting similar MPG to what the MSRP says the RX8 should get than those that aren't. There are even some who are getting 30 MPG with their RX8 (at least one of them is actually in my local RX club).

We have 4 locals in the RX club in my burg that own an RX8. We are all getting close to what the MSRP sticker says we should get.

Given the capabilities of my RX8, that's totally acceptable to me.

To be fair, there are some who are getting 14-19 MPG with their RX8s. To put it into perspective, that's the same as Edmunds is getting with their long term 350Z test.

As mentioned before, I've owned 2 BMWs. I'm a BMW fan. Fact is, I enjoy the RX8 more. MPG in both wasn't dissimilar to what I'm getting with the RX8.

qbrozen · December 2003

Sphinx - as far as that category goes, the new Z doesn't belong. Its far from practical. No back seat and, thanx to the tower brace, a very restrictive cargo space.

gee35 - "I'm just answering the previous question why the RX did not win COTY and the Prius did."
this recent discussion is based on North American Car of the Year. The Prius has not won, yet. The winner won't be announced till next month.

gee35coupe · December 2003

http://motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/112_04_coy_win/

Motor Trend COTY get a lot of press.

A few quotes relavant to the discussion.
"EPA fuel-economy rating: 60 mpg in the city, 51 mpg on the highway"
" the Prius qualifies for the California Air Resources Board's stringent Super-Ultra-Low-Emissions Vehicle "

From a car that seats 5 comfortably and still runs 0-60 in under 10 sec. Come on...Where's the debate?

By the way 04 RX8's $500 over invoice at Stone Mountain Mazda in Atlanta.

qbrozen · December 2003

i know about motor trend. but i originally mentioned North American Car of the Year and that's when this discussion started up. Yeah, the Prius won motortrend, but not NACOTY. Just wanted to make sure you are on the same page as us.

graphicguy · December 2003

Don't forget, Motor Trend was also the publication that picked past COTY luminaries such as the Renault Alliance, Chrysler "K" cars, Chevy Vega...among other automotive standouts.

There are good car deals everywhere right now. If you're in the market for any car....a BMW, an Infiniti, a Mazda, a Honda, a Toyota....any of them...now's the time to make a deal until the 2nd week of January.

I'm not saying the Prius won't be a good car....only that it's a hybrid that gets admittedly great MPG...as does the Honda Hybrid. So does a VW with the TDI powerplant. If MPG is your only criteria, then a Prius should be at the top of your list.

You can buy a Camry around my neck of the woods, fairly loaded, for about $17K. The Prius is selling for $20K since it's new to the market. The Camry would have better performance, be more comfortable, and still get 30 MPG. At a $1.50/gal for gas, over 100,000 miles...you'd pay about an extra $2,000 in gas for the Camry vs the Prius. You're still coming up about $1,000 short by buying the Prius over the Camry based on the fuel economy differences over that 100,000 miles.

I read an article that a cow's flatulence causes more air polution than any car made over the past 3 years. Car emissions are no longer the issue they were even 5-10 years ago.

Again, not meaning to slight the Prius. It's a fine car. But if you do a little bit of a comparison, MPG and emissions aren't the "bugaboo" they were several years ago.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

$17K is below invoice for a stripped base Camry, says Edmunds anyway.

I think the appeal of Prius is for its futuristic promise. The appeal of the RX8 is for what you get right here right now. Sometimes the future is sexier, so I can see that influencing the voting.

gee35coupe · December 2003

But they put back seats in the 2nd generation and those models were/are the least desirable. They put back seats in the NA 300ZX and those are the least desirable now. They didn't bother to put back seats in the last generation RX or the Twin Turbo Z because the market doesn't want em. Heck, not even the 320hp Supra turbo could convince people that back seats were the way to go. A four door RX8 is a sedan with a door turned the wrong way. There are very affordable FWD sedans out there that could show the RX taillights on most of the real roads out there since corners aren't usually sharp enough for handling capability make a significant difference. I mean honestly...6.7 sec to 60 is not much faster than a couple of the cars in the sedan shoot out. And the Accord in particular had 240 hp and 30 mpg on the highway. An auto RX8 better bow down.

Why would we discredit the MTCOTY with cars from over a decade ago. I mean the Focus was NACOTY and I'll bet it'll go down in history as one of the most recalled cars in years.

There ARE deals to be had. But not on cars that were supposed to be a revolutionary as this one. The RX hasn't been on the market long enough to be heavily discounted. Resale for the first owners is gonna suck. I've been seeing low prices for the RX for a couple months now. I said this when it was intruduced. There is not as much of a market for this car in this country as Mazda thinks.

The Honda Hybrid is a great car too. But not as powerful or large as the Prius. The Beetle also doesn't get as good mileage as the Prius AND is a diesel so emmission will suck in this country since we have sorry diesel.

Check the option list and I'm sure the Camry you can get for $17 will be a little short on equipment. Not to mention a little higher on emmissions. Even at 30 mpg the Camry would still be HALF of the 60 mpg city on the Prius. Again there's no debate.

If car emmission wasn't the issue, there would still be an RX7 Turbo or even an RX8 Turbo. But there aren't because of.....emmissions and fuel economy. It's an issue somewhere.

Can't comment much about the cows though.

iexplore2000 · December 2003

Hello Everyone,

I've been thumbing through the post on this forum and for the most part, I have been entertaining the idea of purchasing an RX8 and had a few questions for you current Rx8 owners.

First, I don't want to start a "holy war" in terms of which vehicle(s) are better, but just for the record, here are the vehicles that I am considering. Also, I am looking to purchase my next vehicle in addition to keeping my 2003 GMC Envoy XL V-8.. it's just too big for everyday driving!

#1. Honda Accord V-6 Coupe with Navigation -- Practicality, lots of bang for the buck and "sort of" fills my desire for a practical 2 door sports car. Will have to retrofit HID's though?

#2. Nissan 350Z Roadster -- Very nice vehicle, but fully loaded will run me over $40K and I understand that most are paying full sticker? Ick..

#3. Cadillac CTS Luxury Sport Model -- I know.. what the heck? Well.. I can get GM discount on this vehicle and it does have a lot of bang for the buck, distinctive styling and a new V-6 engine that has plenty of "power."

#4. Infiniti G35 Coupe -- Very nice vehicle, excellent handling, elegant look but can also get kinda pricy?

My questions for you current RX8 owners:

A. IF I am to purchase an RX8, I will get the automatic version fully loaded. Since the auto decreases the horsepower, I am a little worried that I would be dissapointed in the long run with the overall power of the vehicle? Anyone care to comment on the Auto's 0-60 mph times and/or experiences with the automatic? Personally, my V-8 Envoy is a beast, but it will surely keep your spine securely fastened to the seat during acceleration. I kinda consider it to be my extra large sports car! If the RX8 will feel slower than my Envoy, I really do think that I would be dissapointed.

B. In terms of gadgetry.. I will more than likely purchase the Navigation system. One of my biggest concerns is that I don't think that the RX8 comes with a trip computer that tells you MPG, Instantaneous, Distance to Empty, etc? Can someone please tell me if the Navi system contains a trip computer?

C. I've read different comments posted here about the reliability of the engine (i.e. stalling, etc). What are the top issues related to the engine that I should be aware of?

D. Last but not least, for those current RX8 owners, would you consider buying again if you had a chance to do it all over again?

Thanks in advance for your help..

IExplore2000

graphicguy · December 2003

Issues will exist with any car.

Depends on what you want.

Honda's reputation speaks for itself. Nice cars, just more "middle of the road" than what I prefer. They had issues early with their automatic trannys, but haven't heard anything of late.

350Z...punishing ride...some fit and finish shortcomings...subpar interior. All that said, along with the RX8, they are one of the current benchmarks amont mid-level sports cars.

G35C....some brake problems, but Infiniti seems to be aware of them. A 350Z with some of the rough edges smoothed out. Probably the closest competitor to the RX8.

CTS....I have no clue. I've never driven one. Styling is subjective, but I don't like the boxy look they have gone to.

Automatic version of the RX8 blunts some of it's performance. Mine is the 6-speed, but have driven the automatic at local user's groups. Feels more like your previously mentioned Accord, except when you get on the upper reaches of the tach, at which time it becomes very quick. The best handling car of the group you're looking at. Very easy to drive very fast...regardless of the curves (or straight line) road.

The NAV does not have any MPG, DTE, etc readings. That said, I've owned cars with those types of readouts in the past. I can say, at best, they are inaccurate. The NAV system itself, is one of the best out there. Most NAVs use NAVTECH, which seems to be the preference for all manufacturers.

There have been a few people on another board that have mentioned flooding. The vast majority of us have not experienced that issue. In fairness, flooding any car becomes an issue when the wheather changes. My neighbor's '03 Accord was flat bedded to the dealer a couple of weeks ago becuase it flooded.

For what it's worth, the RX8 was chosen as a "Top 10 Best" by C&D. A few months ago, C&D also did a sports car "shootout" comparing the RX8 to the Cobra and G35C. The RX8 won that one, too. "TopGear" in the UK tested the RX8. Clarkson called it the "best car driven" this year....including the 350Z. It also matched the track numbers of the BMW M3 and the 350Z Track. Of course, you can read what Edmunds has to say about the RX8 here in the "Sports Car Shootout" article. There are other reviews from Australia, and other parts of the world if you want to do a search.

graphicguy · December 2003

shifty...new '03 Camry LEs around the OH area are selling for right around $18K give or take a couple hundred (right at around invoice and it being the end of the year). Plus, there's a $750 rebate through Toyota. That gets right near the $17K figure I was using in my previous comparison. I agree with you about the Prius being more of a "look what we can do?" kind of car. I see it more appealing to the Western States than the rest of the country, however. Hybrids, diesels, etc, just don't get much attention here in the midwest.

Short supply reminds me of the pre-orders for the RX8 when they were first shown last year at the International Auto Show in Detroit. Prius production will eventually catch up.

iexplore....one question you asked that I failed to answer...would I but my RX8 again? In short, an unqualified YES!

Just as a side note, I had test driven a bunch of cars before buying the RX8 in August. Aside from the RX8, I spent a lot of time with both the 350Z and the G35C. Matter of fact, the local Infiniti dealer let me use a G35 over a weekend (SMs demo car). I had test driven the 350Z on several occasions over about a 2 month period.

You really should test drive an RX8 to see what everyone else raves about.

cheezeboy · December 2003

iexplore.....as one of the few vocal Auto RX8 owners here, I can say that YES, if I had to do it all over again, I would buy my RX8! Best darn car I've ever owned. That being said, I have to say it is slower than the 6speed, but for me that was not a deal breaker - how she drives was the important feature. And she drives quite nicely! Please do what we have done and take a good, full day to test drive the RX8 back to back with some of your other choices. All of your choices are great cars, so I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, but for me, the RX8 was perfect in all ways - looks, handling, features, agility, comfort, visibility, and price. And seeing how I spend 80% of my driving day in bumper-to-bumper or on interior city roads, the automatic makes my life easier! Now, go test drive one!!

Mazda RX-8

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