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I just visited the local mazda dealership...It looked like they had at least 7-9 rx-8s in stock, mostly 6 speeds in mainly red or silver.
Im afraid to actually drive one because it would likely put me in a bad frame of mind(I'll really want one and actually would try to do a deal on one, when really my financial ducks are not in order at this time). So for now I'll just enjoy occasional visits to the dealership on sundays(when they are closed!).
Earlier this fall On one of my visits the local dealer had a yellow 6 speed...I thought that was pretty sharp! Have yet to see a green one though.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Yesterday, I took the advice of those who responded and drove an RX-8 today in both 6-speed and Automatic forms.
For the most part, I was fairly impressed with the 6-speed, but the automatic was somewhat questionable? How can I best explain it? Driving the auto RX8 reminded me of driving my aunts 2003 Volkswagon Passat 1.8T? OK.. what I mean by this is that the 1.8T from a stand still is a slow beast... then about 2 or 3 seconds later, the power comes on full speed ahead! It's one of those, "don't jump out in front of rush hour traffic vehicles." That's how I can best describe my experience with the RX8 automatic. It wasn't bad to drive, but I definitely can see getting my butt kicks at a stop light against someone driving something with raw V-6 power? Also, the ride was awesome! Very easy to get in/out and the fit and finish was excellent.
Secondly, we were out on the freeway and it seems as if the tranny's thinking was a little too slow for my taste? It needed to react a second quicker for merging, etc. It just didn't seem too intuitive if you know what I mean? However, I did love the paddle shifters!
Third, I really wish that the RX8 had an auto climate control (set and forget) as opposed to the manual system? That kinda bugged me for a vehicle in this price range. Additionally, I wished that it had a full function trip computer to tell you DTE, MPG, etc.. I really find that stuff useful.
FOURTH and probably the most important... I had convinced myself that I could live without all of the creature comforts but when my salesman offered the following information without my input, I became instantly cold. He mentioned that since this is a rotary engine, it will basically burn more oil (purposely) than other vehicles and that after every third fillup, I will need to check/add oil as necessary??? Also, he mentioned that it does not and cannot use synthetic oil! THEN, he goes on the mention the flooding issue and stated that the vehicle needs to warm up to operating temp each time or else I will encounter flooding issues. A simple switch-a-roo of vehicles in my driveway can cause the RX8 to flood unless I leave it running long enough to reach normal operating temp? Last but not least, I experienced a slight CHILL down my spine when he said that it's best to rev the rpm's up to 3K and then shut the engine off to prevent flooding???
Now.. Personally, I will buy a new car because it should be maintenance free, not high-maintenance? Maybe this guy has incorrect information (please feel free to correct if necessary) but he seemed to be very very knowledgeable of this vehicle and covered every minute detail before we went out on a test drive.
My sales rep instantly knew that my interest level in the vehicle had went wayyy down and asked me to sleep on it. Of course, just for a contrast of vehicles, the Nissan dealer was next door to the Mazda store. Since all of the dealerships are part of the motor mall, my sales rep took me over to the Nissan dealer and introduced me to another salesman who allowed me to test drive the 350Z coupe. My opinion? One word...
WOW!! Although I still find the RX8 interesting, the Nissan 350Z was down-right exciting! As I went out on my test drive with the sales rep, I simply laughed joyfully at how much POWER this thing had? Seriously, I am not trying to start a debate here, but after 2 minutes in the 350Z, I was instantly sold. I swear that the 350Z seemed to have a direct tie to my brain! The auto tranny performed seemlessly and seemed to always find the correct gear given my input. Also, this model came equipped with the trip computer displaying actual tire PSI numbers (all 4), DTE, Average MPG and Speed, etc. The ride seemed very comparable to the RX8 and the cockpit had a very nice feel. Oh.. let's not forget the throaty exhaust.. felt like there was a V-8 under the hood. This car was majorly fast guys/gals.. kinda scary!
Ok.. I've said enough now, but I just wanted to thank you all for responding to my original post. While I do like the Rx8, It would be nice for Mazda to consider making another powerplant available in addition to the rotary engine. Heck.. If the RX8had the Nissan's engine, tranny and gizmos (including auto climate control), I would have driven one home tonite? Anyone from Mazda listening? Any rumored changes for 2005?
With that being said, I think that now I am down to two choices. 350Z or G35 coupe (sister vehicles)
Thanks!
IExplore2000
This is the first time I’ve found a forum about car buying and other interesting stuff. I find it very useful in my endeavor to shop for a sports car. I’ve been longing for the RX-8 since I first saw the initial commercial. As I am getting more and more intrigued and seriously about buying it, I’ve heard and read so many problems the car may possess.
I would like to obtain some feedback regarding the problems I’ve heard and maybe getting a more that I have not.
1) My salesman reinforced me that the flooding problem has and will continue to exist. He said that because of the rotary engine, you would always need to start it a certain way and let it warm up for more than 7 seconds to prevent flooding.
2) He believes that Mazda will likely issue a recall regarding the oil pan.
3) High oil consumption
4) Not good on snow
Since I live in the Midwest, snow is somewhat prevalent, I’m not certain if RX-8 should be my primary choice, but since I love the look of it and the extra doors for my young ones, I wonder if the above problems can be overlooked.
Although I have not yet test driven an Acura TL, I have heard great things about the car. So before I set my heart on the RX-8, I will have to give TL a try.
I would appreciate any comments you may have to persuade or dissuade my decision to buy a RX-8.
Thanks. Have a happy New Year.
Latex
Yours may be new enough that you can still salvage the original gasket. However, it should still be covered under warranty, so have your dealer put a new one in correctly.
Another possibility, though less likely, is that the taillight components weren't properly sealed to each other during assembly, allowing water to get in from the outside between the hard plastic parts.
I'm assuming the taillight isn't cracked, of course.
It also sounds like your Nissan salesperson didn't mention the suspension and tire issues with the 350Z, stereo issues, fit/finish issues, and some of the paint issues. You really should pay a visit to some of the 350Z/G35C sites on the WEB to get owners impressions of some of the issues with those cars.
No need to change anytthing with the RX8's engine. It's already won the International Engine of the Year and is one of the top 10 engines being produced according to Wards.
flooding...first and foremost, the vast majority of people who own the RX8 haven't experienced any flooding issues. If anyone is concerned about it, then the easy answer is to "blip" the throttle a little when you shut it down to clear out any unburnt fuel....no issue! Don't know why that sent a "chill down your spine", but so be it.
Everyone should check their oil regularly, regardless of the car they drive. I don't know why this is an issue. My RX8 hasn't used any oil over the first 6K miles. I still check it regularly, though (as I do with all my cars). Personally, even if I had to put a 1/2 quart of oil in the car between oil changes, it wouldn't matter to me.
latex, there is a lot of "misinformation/disinformation" about the RX8 going around since it has been so widely praised. Remember that as you take your test drives. Like the 350Z/G35C and the RX8, they all come equipped with "summer" performance tires. Given car with performance/summer tires and you're going to have some problems in the snow. I live in the Midwest, too. I haven't had any problems so far in the "dusting of snow" or heavy rain I've had around here. I won't take it out in deep snow, though. That said, all reports from those who have used the RX8 with snow tires have said it does just fine.
Personally, I liked the previous gen TLs. I haven't made up my mind about the new ones....I'm lukewarm about the styling. As others have said, the new TL may have "hit a barrier" in the re-design by keeping it FWD, however. That said, I haven't driven one so I don't know this to be fact.
Oil pan issue was from some early builds (mine). Nothing wrong with it except it tripped the "low oil level" light. Those that are "on sale" now should have the "fix" already in place from the factory. Essentially, baffles were put in the oil pan and the "low oil level" sensors were redone. I had this done on mine under a TSB...no problems.
The RX8 warms up very quickly (less than 1 mile of driving). I don't know anything about the "7 second" rule. I've moved my RX8 in and out of the garage/driveway...starting it for a few seconds and shutting it down and restarting again for a few seconds. I've done this in all weather in temps ranging from 95+ degrees to the teens. No problems.
Like any other car, if you flood it, you just depress the gas pedal to the floor and crank it for a few seconds. This shuts down the fuel being injected and clears the chambers. then you can start it normally. Again, this isn't an issue with the vast majority of the 12,000 RX8 owners currently out there.
As most of the trade rags have said, they pick the RX8 over the 350Z/G35C....all for various reasons....style, back seat, room, handling, fit/finish, performance, comfort, features, price.......etc.
blh....I've seen the Nordic Green. Very sharp. It's kind of a chameleon...in some light it looks almost "black". In other light, it is a deep, sparkly green. To me, there are no "bad" colors for the RX8. I have the "winning blue" and love mine, but could have been happy with any of the colors. Look real close at the paint on the Nordic Green and the Mica Red....you'll notice that they contain "flecks" of gold in them.
dools...Mazda already makes a roadster. It's called a Miata. I doubt seriously, if they make a convertible RX8, though. Keep watching, however. Mazda is getting ready to "re-do" the Miata in the very near future.
Currently I have a 2003 Envoy XL V-8 and for the most part, I just drive it. Simple turn of the key, drive, never add or check oil because it's serviced every 3K miles. I will definitely have to give it more thought and perhaps prolong my search to see what happens. In all fairness, I am really in love with the concept of having a back seat (even though it may not be highly usable). This definitely helps with insurance and can even aid in storage of items, therefore I can probably see myself leaning more towards G35 coupe. Oh well.. this is gonna be a very tough decision.. Wish me luck and once again, thanks for your assistance!
IExplore2000
I agree with you about not checking the oil every other fill up if you have it changed routinely. I don't think I should have to do that with today's vehicles and rarely see people lift up hoods at the gasoline stations. I've never done that with any of my vehicles in the past and they were always in good shape years afterwards. The reliability issues with the RX-8 have yet to be determined since the car hasn't even been out a year yet. It's fair to say that not knowing concerns you and has persuaded you to get a 350Z/G35 Coupe (since those have been out long enough to acquire some reliability feedback).
This forum is to discuss the RX8 itself (as much as we can keep it that way) and for people who want information on that car specifically or who have information to give on that car.
The link you want is:
Infiniti G35 Coupe or Mazda RX-8???
thank you
Host
"...if Mazda's EPA rating drops 1-2 mpg (as real world performance suggests), they will be subject to a gas guzzler tax which I suspect will significantly hurt sales. They are already selling at or near invoice in the DC area and a $1,000 gas guzzler charge won't help things. And lest you think an EPA rating change isn't possible or likely, the EPA rating on the 2004 S2000 was lowered by 1-2 mpg. Any spec change in the RX8 engine will automatically trigger an EPA review and the repeated reports of below average MPG has also triggered revised EPA ratings in the past."
What spec change has the RX-8 had that would lower the EPA rating? The 2004 S2000 has a larger engine displacement (2.2L from 2.0L) that produces more power earlier and throughout the powerband that makes the car quicker and smoother from the 30 to 70 MPH range than the previous versions. Along with more torque, it's a different engine that hasn't required much more fuel, if any at all (20 city / 25 highway), to become "easier to live with" as quoted by Car & Driver in their 2004 Top Ten. If the RX-8 changes specs, the vehicle's engine will be modified by Mazda to rectify any changes that could lower gas mileage. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but the government came up with those EPA ratings (whether real world performance or not) and so why would the ratings change if the car's engine hasn't? Were you talking of a mistake that may have been made in the first place in evaluating the RX-8's gas mileage rate? If that's the case, the 2004 S2000 was a bad example to use since it's a different engine from its predecessors and required a new evaluation; just like any new car would. No correction was made in that vehicle's EPA ratings (if there was any change at all).
This is the first time I’ve found a forum about car buying and other interesting stuff. I find it very useful in my endeavor to shop for a sports car. I’ve been longing for the RX-8 since I first saw the initial commercial. As I am getting more and more intrigued and seriously about buying it, I’ve heard and read so many problems the car may possess.
I would like to obtain some feedback regarding the problems I’ve heard and maybe getting a more that I have not.
1) My salesman reinforced me that the flooding problem has and will continue to exist. He said that because of the rotary engine, you would always need to start it a certain way and let it warm up for more than 7 seconds to prevent flooding.
2) He believes that Mazda will likely issue a recall regarding the oil pan.
3) High oil consumption
4) Not good on snow
Since I live in the Midwest, snow is somewhat prevalent, I’m not certain if RX-8 should be my primary choice, but since I love the look of it and the extra doors for my young ones, I wonder if the above problems can be overlooked.
Although I have not yet test driven an Acura TL, I have heard great things about the car. So before I set my heart on the RX-8, I will have to give TL a try.
I would appreciate any comments you may have to persuade or dissuade my decision to buy a RX-8.
Thanks. Have a happy New Year.
Latex
In other words, all vehicles use oil (they have to or the rings of piston engines would seize - same as the rotary apex seals - it's just that the rotary engine must inject the oil into the inlet tract as the apex seals are not exposed to the oil storage area (oil pan). Both engines burn whatever oil is used to lub. the rings/apex seals. They both seem happiest using about 1 L per oil change. Even my 2 stroke m/c uses about that amount.
2. There already is a replacement program on the oil pan (it's not the pan that's the problem - they modify some internals and the pan has to be replaced because there is a good chance that removing it will bend it). It's a no cost fix and you should just make that part of your offer to buy.
3. Oil use delt with in my previous message.
4. The car comes with "summer performance tires". They do not work on ice or snow just like any other summer performance tire! We put on all season tires here in 6 month winter Edmonton Alberta, and the car does very well in snow/ice. 50/50 weight distribution and low torque is great for slippery surfaces. The DSC and ABS is amazing! You can do whatever you like (well, almost), and the car will recover. We used Nokian WR tires (17 inch - got a new set of non-Mazda aluminum rims and used the stock width and modified the aspect ratio to keep the diameter the same). Wanted larger sidewalls to protect the rims better in grungy winter so went to 17 s.
It may not be the car for you, but don't let the above be the reason.
On the plus side:
1. Much more fun to drive than the competitors (the 350Z feels like a truck compared to it).
2. Amazing room inside (went to Home Depot to get new flooring supplies - had a cart load and it all fit in the trunk)!
3. At fancy restaurants car gets parked up front with the Mercedies, Feraries, etc. Pretty funny for a car that costs 1/3 or less than the others.
4. Seats 4 comfortably. I'm 6' 220 lb and find the rear seats quite nice, even for long trips. Does take a little getting used to when you first get in as it looks very tight. Lots of room for legs etc. though.
5. Not too sure if the attention you get is a good thing or a bad thing. Nice thing is my 3rd gen RX-7 no longer stands out alone when we travel together ;-).
We drove mostly through subdivision roads, never really got a chance to feel what the car can do. even then, i took every opportunity to pull the engine to redline in 1st.
Initial impression is that the car quietly goes about its business, and it can be driven very fast without much drama. it's so easy to drive that it actually seems less thrilling to drive than lesser cars going much slower.
I had very high expectations for this car going in. It'd be unfair to say it doesn't deliver based on such a short and uninformative test drive, but I think i'll pass for now and get a used S2k.
On a final note, I told the sales manager i'm not impressed by the power, he proceeded to claim that Mazda will have a 320hp turbo RX-8 in 2005. I think turbos would be wrong for this car, would make the car more difficult to drive, and would not enhance the appeal of this car at all.
http://www.fungistudios.com/RX8_Shima/RX8_Shima.htm
I started out wanting the Nordic green, but it was way too dark in real life for me. Also, would not a convertible be really hard to do with this car due to the side B pillar is in the suicide door? Wouldn't you have to kill the suicide doors to gain strength for the ragtop? I defer to the experts on this one.
The issue I raised was that, in addition to automatically reviewing it's ratings due to engine changes, the EPA will also reevaluate on occassion, if they hear of enough consumer complaints. In an opposite move, the BMW 545i EPA rating was actually increased shortly after it first came out, resulting in a rebate to very early buyers of the gas guzzler tax.
It's probably unlikely that the RX-8 would be downgraded from its current 18 mpg city rating to 16 mpg (triggering gas guzzler). It would certainly be embarassing to think a 3,800 lb sedan with a 325 hp / 335 ft lb V8 gets better mileage.
To say the least, I am not bad mouthing the RX8, but I just think that it may have dropped a little lower in terms of "what I want for my dollar" on my comparison list. Why? Primarily for the reasons that I listed in my previous posting. Personally, I want a vehicle that will have very very low owner intervention in terms of maintenance. I don't want to check oil, etc. Just not my thing, especially if I am dressed up in a suit for work and bending over the hood of my RX8 at the gas station.. that poses a big problem for me..
There still may be a chance that I will end up with an RX8 as well, but the issues that I mentioned above are of serious concern to me. Luckily, I have plenty of time before spring hits to make a well informed decision, therefore the pendulum can swing either way. Thanks again to everyone for their assistance!
Thanks!
IExplore2000
The answer to that question may tell you which direction you want to take.
I will continue to use the Envoy during the fall/winter months and garage the second vehicle.
Basically, I have come to the conclusion that my Envoy SLT XL is a little too long for everyday driving. Sometimes I just want to go someplace rather quickly without having to worry about finding a large enough parking space, etc.
Hope that helps to clarify.
Thanks again!
IExplore2000
habitat1 - That is odd. I imagine that if you get around 30 when the EPA rating was 26, the people rating just assumed that the new type engine will use more gas. I don't know what goes on in the testing or whether they just estimate without doing real performance tests. Like your BMW example, they have made mistakes before.
I drove one before the change and the oil light did come on for a few seconds while I drove it over the course of a full weekend but the oil level was fine. The last one I drove over the weekend never had the light come on because of the fix and I never experienced any hard starts or flooding. I may be getting one soon so I will follow up with my thoughts and comments.
Also, a friend of mine who owns an S2000 just bought an RX-8, and he really likes it but says he does not really think the two are comparable because of the vast differences. He likes them both for what they are and leaves it at that.
Kirk
What's TSB and is there a TSB Number with it so I can call up my dealer to inquire.
What's the best way to avoid flooding in the first place then?
I've heard that you'll need to take out the fuse for the fuel injection while doing the unflooding procedure.
Oil pan and sensor fix worked fine.
Car gets about 14 mpg. I drive hard so its my lead foot I suppose.
Oil consumption is about 1 quart per 1000 miles.
Handling is amazing anyone who says otherwise has not driven this car.
Top speed I have driven is 117 felt like 65 mph.
My CEL light has gone on twice and then off have to go to service and have it checked.
This car is the closest thing to driving a motorcycle on 4 wheels. Just amazing handling in the rain or dry pavement. No snow in Florida so I don't know about that issue.
6,555 happy miles on my 8 and it is still just as tight as when new.
Anyone know the real facts on the chip re programing issue. Both Mazda and my service dealer say nothing out yet. My car runs very rich black soot on the exhaust is as much a pain to clean as the brake dust on the wheels
1 quart per 1000 miles is kinda severe in my book.
I'm pretty sure my car was flooded while it was at the body shop for a few weeks. When I picked it up and first started it, white smoke blew out the back and it smelled pretty funny, so I think they flooded it and unflooded it some time before I got it back. I, myself, have not flooded the car.
Flooding is an issue you have to be aware of, but it is relatively simple to avoid. It should be stated that it really isn't good for ANY car to be shut off before it fully warms up. I avoid that scenario whenever I can. However, if you simply CAN'T WAIT for it to warm up, graphicguy's suggestion of revving the engine up to, say, 4000 rpm for 5 seconds or so and then shutting off the engine as it winds back down WILL keep the car from flooding. So, simple enough.
As for oil usage, my car has 6900 miles on it. I had the oil changed at 5000 miles (according to Mazda's severe maintenance schedule) and added 1 quart during those 5000 miles. I've got 1900 miles since the oil change and just added a 1/2 quart today. The oil usage isn't really that bad. It will use more oil if you drive it at high RPMs constantly, though.
And you don't have to check the oil every time you fill up the car. I just check mine every other weekend or so. Once you see how much oil yours uses, you can decide how often it needs to be checked.
My gas mileage was around 22-23 mpg in mostly highway driving when I first got the car. It has dropped back to around 20 since winter hit. I think crappy winter gas has something to do with that. Either way, I'm not ecstatic, but I can certainly live with that kind of mileage.
Yeah, the rotary takes just a bit more attention than other engines. But this car is so much fun, and gets such a great reaction from everyone, that I just can't view these few little things as a problem.
Best of luck to all who are considering the RX-8!
No significant oil useage. I had my first oil change a 5K miles. Service tech said it was down "a little" but I don't know how much.
I check my oil in all my cars about every 2nd or 3rd fill-up and saw nothing in particular that would lead me to believe my RX8 will use a lot of oil.
My MPG is also in the low 20s on the highway (best I got was 26 MPG, all highway with the cruise set at 75 MPH). I get 19 MPG in mixed driving, although that number has dropped a couple of MPG since they changed over to "winter formulations" at the gas stations around me. I suspect my MPG will go back up come Spring.
The engine does run a little rich when started cold. As soon as it warms up (very quick warm-up), it gets back to normal. The upside to that scenario is that you can get the RX8 off the line real quick when cold. That's the cause of the "black stuff" on the tailpipes. In fairness, I've yet to own a car with chrome tailpipes that doesn't collect some form of exhaust "gunk".
I've never had even a hint of flooding in mine, but the few that have state the answer is to "blip" the throttle a little during shut down. This burns off any unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber.
The reason Mazda had to "re-state" power ratings of the RENESIS is because new CA emissions regs state that the catalytic converters must be "guaranteed" to last at least 120K miles. Since the cat converter supplier to Mazda couldn't make that guarantee, Mazda had to make changes to the fuel mapping system of the engine to make certain that the cats will be within CA regs at 120K miles. This was happening as the first RX8s were hitting U.S. ports. Mazda had no choice but to do something on their end (reprogramming the ECUs) as opposed to finding a new CAT supplier on such short notice. In my mind, this wasn't a case of Mazda being to blame, but one of their suppliers "dropping the ball". That said, Mazda stepped up and took care of those (like me and like zoomer) who had pre-ordered their cars.
My guess would be that Mazda is looking for a new catalytic converter supplier about right now.
TSBs (technical service bulletins) and the VIN #s affected are available at your dealer's service depts. I would imagine that every car currently in dealer inventory (or those delivered in the last month or so) have the new oil sensors and oil pan baffles already installed.
I know I don't want to check my oil that often any more. Especially when you have many cars, even performance ones, that are more or less maintenance free between service stops. As has been said before, there are several cars that offer great handling, lots of power, AND a great price. Even used S2000's.
However, if I were you, I'd check the oil in it every few fillups. Just a very quick way to insure the longevity of your engine as all cars will burn some oil. It takes less than 15 seconds while you're filling up.
Those of us with older RX-7s call the tailpipe stuff "smoot" (attempt at humour I guess). It's a mixture of carbon soot and half burned oil. In the case of the RX-8 it's mostly the carbon soot, but there is always some oil from the oil injection.
To meet the above mentioned 120K mile cat life, Mazda had to cool the cat when the engine was above 6000 RPM. To do this they programmed in excess fuel without air to burn it. Yes, they produce HC. No, this isn't tested for so is considered ok. I'm told they are more concerned with NOx than HC.
FYI, an aftermarket tuner group that I've been working with has come up with a modification (electronics) that fixes the extra rich mixture (and sets it correctly at almost all RPMs and loads) and gives about 25 extra HP. We saw the extra fuel in our dyno tests, just to confirm what a Mazda rep. told the community at the Seven Stock 6 rotary gathering last fall in California.
Of course, we would expect the cat. on cars so equipped to not last 120 k miles, but personally I think that is a silly thing to expect anyway. What the govt. body (CARB?) that mandated this should have done was require cat replacement after XX k miles, so HC and NOx would be controlled at all times.
Joys of having the Govt. tell you what to do.
I know it's been said that all cars burn oil but I've only had three cars that required me to check it regularly after break in. Two of them were RX7's and the other car had other issues and 160,000 miles on it.
Rotaries have always had high exhaust temps too. I know the RX7 actually went so far as to have a warning light for the exhaust system. AND the exhaust was kinda sooty. Especially if you drove it hard. Incidentally hard driving also increases oil consumption.
If so, how have your tests gone?
Nice to be involved (even to the small extent I was) with something that works so well.
That said, if there would be enough demand, I'm sure canzoomer would consider it.
Keep in mind the fact that if your dealer finds this mod, warranty is void (operative statement is "IF your dealer finds it").
pathstar...have you done any performance or MPG testing?