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Mazda RX-8

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Comments

  • cheezeboycheezeboy Member Posts: 218
    Well, I figured as much. Not enough demand by us 'poor' auto lovers...LOL.....

    but I have a question: I have the clear side markers. But I've yet to see any other car with side markers in a color other than "DOT Orange", which makes me wonder if my clear ones are groovy.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    cheeze....you're groovy no matter what color your side markers are......;-)
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    The Stage 1 device only modifies the fuel. It could be done for the auto but Canzoomer's team doesn't have access to an auto car right now. It probably wouldn't be very effective anyway, but it may still happen.
    The mod. can be removed in a few minutes if you are taking the car into the dealer.

    The auto RX-8 has "reduced power" and just a 4 port intake. The reason we deduce for this is there is no torque converter that can be operated safely much above 7000 RPM. Above 7000 RPM is where the 6 port engine developes the extra power compared to the 4 port. The conclusion is the power is actually not "reduced", it would never be there due to the inability to safely rev. the torque converter to the extra power RPM range. Mazda chose the 4 port for the auto because:
    1. It developes slightly more torque in the lower RPM range.
    2. It is slightly less expensive to manufacture.
    3. The auto trans. equipped RX-8 can't safely use the extra power above 7000 RPM so there was no point in using the 6 port.
    Now we're not sure how effective the mod. would be, as most of the gains from the fuel re-mapping are from 6000 RPM and up. There are "tweeks" elsewhere in the RPM range, but the major effect is above 6000. Without "looking" on a dyno we will not know what to expect. The car gets "bunged" (bung added for wideband air/fuel probe) and tested throughout its' operating range. Then the fuel map is developed and tested on the dyno, and finally on the road, using the air/fuel meter, dyno readings, and a G-Tech pro.)
    As for polution levels, we haven't measured them, but we see no reason they wouldn't be just fine. We have removed, not added fuel. We suspect the cat. wouldn't last 120,000 mi. but who knows for sure?
    The Stage 1 mod. prototype cars started operation just when winter arrived so fuel economy comparisons will have to wait until spring. Dyno testing may be done next week. The maps were developed on a "Mustang dyno" which reads lower numbers than a "Dynojet dyno". We saw about 25 HP extra. To be a useful comparison, we are going to run it on a Dynojet so it will be apples to apples with all the other mods. being hyped.
    The scary part was the preliminary data gathered for "Stage 2", which took the HP significantly above Mazda's original numbers. "Scary" for me, as it would match or surpass my modified 3rd gen RX-7 in performance. It does take the car "to the edge" though. So much so that altitude compensation may be necessary, to avoid running too lean. More work will be done on Stage 2 in late spring.

    Those clear side markers are Canzoomer's best seller. He brings them in from Japan by the case.
  • blacktalonblacktalon Member Posts: 203
    Thanks for the response. I was curious because I heard Mazda had reflashed the ECU at the last minute to meet California emissions -- and Massachusetts is one of the (annoying) states that has adopted CA emissions standards. However, if it's just a matter of the cat not lasting 120,000 miles, then there should be no problems passing emissions...
  • cheezeboycheezeboy Member Posts: 218
    If it's all above 7000rpm, then, yeah, not much point for us Autos. And after spending the last 45 minutes in stop and go city traffic AND an accident on the Interstate, I am so glad I have the Auto!! Maybe I will stick with the cool addons and leave the fine engine as is. But if I get up to Canada, you can test out my Auto all ya like on your machines!!

    Also, glad to hear that the side markers are a big seller. They make the car look very nice!

    and GGuy...thanks!...I always feel groovy when driving my RX8 and so should you!
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Excellent post. Thanks for the detailed info.

    Please, stop back and let us know how the testing goes. I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it.

    My understanding is Stage 1 costs $500. Is that correct? Also my understanding is that the mod is a 5 minute "in" or "out" procedure. Right?
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Hello Everyone,

    I decided to take another spin today in an automatic version of the RX8. Oddly enough, the vehicle handled fantastic today given the terrenchial rain downpours this evening.

    For the most part, I still like the vehicle, however this time I went to another dealership just to see if the sales rep would mention the driveability concerns that i had. To say the least, he did. Actually, the sales manager mentioned that they've replaced a LOT of spark plugs on the RX8's sitting on their lots because of them not initially knowing that the vehicle needs to be "warmed up" prior to shutting off. But.. we both agreed that it is a very nice car indeed. The ride and handling scored very high in my books and I will definitely keep this one on my "possibility" list.

    Also, I noticed that this dealership had a BUNCH of RX8's sitting on their lots... I would estimate at least 30+ vehicles. Some which have been there for quite some time. After my test drive, I pulled the sales manager to the side since I was the only customer on the floor. I mentioned to him that I have been subscribing to forums like edmunds to gather input from other owners concerning prices paid and pro's/cons. Additionally, I mentioned to him that many have proclaimed to get offers as low as $500 above invoice on RX8's and this is what he said:

    "Honestly, you see all of the RX8's on our lots correct? I am not in the car museum business, therefore I would definitely do what it takes to earn your business instead of having you drive 500+ miles to another dealer to get a better deal. IF you want any RX's on our lots (or whatever we have coming in), I will sell it to you for $500 over invoice!"

    OK.. I was very thrilled to hear that because IF I do decide to purchase, I will more than likely buy it from this particular dealer. Also, I mentioned to the sales manager that there are other possible internet buyers for this vehicle and he says, "Well.. tell them about us, I will definitely do $500 over invoice for those who you broadcast this to." So.. that definitely can serve as "helpful information" for those interested in purchasing an RX8. This particular dealership is located in Columbus, Ohio and for those interested, please let me know and I will give you the name of the sales manager so that you may contact him.

    For those who are interested, they had a few automatic versions, their fully loaded auto came in Titanium Exterior and black leather. It was a nice vehicle, but I think that I am stuck on either red or black? He mentioned that anyone interested can check their inventory online, but it goes as far to show vehicles that have not even hit their lots yet?

    Now here's the kicker.. I forgot to ask him if the $500 over applies to TRUE invoice (i.e. edmunds, etc.) or $500 over dealer invoice with advertising, etc?? Dohhh...

    Anyhow, I wanted to share that information with anyone else who may be interested and don't mind driving the distance to make the purchase.

    Good luck and I will definitely keep you all informed on which vehicle I choose.

    Thanks again for your assistance!

    IExplore2000
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    Price went or going up to $750 in Jan. I don't "sell" them, I assemble them, sorry don't know Maurice's detailed marketing plans. You unplug three connectors from the ECU, plug those into the unit, and plug three connectors from the unit into the ECU. May take a little longer than 5 min. - perhaps 15. There is also now a switch on the unit to select "stage 0" (stock) and "stage 1". We wanted it there for comparison purposes, and figured our customers might find it handy as well.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention the testing also included temp sensors at the cat. We wanted to make sure we didn't overheat it.
  • golf_nutgolf_nut Member Posts: 12
    Pathstar,

    Is there a website to look at about this mod?

    Is it expected to improve fuel economy?

    How do I get one?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Again....thanks for the info. Sounds like a very easy mod.

    Please post back with any updates.

    While some of us will want to keep our cars "bone stock", some of us will consider such an easy mod. It sounds like it would be easy to "uninstall", too if our RX8s need to make a trip to the dealer.

    I'd still like to hear of further testing results. Last I heard, this mod will net mid 13 quarter times (as opposed to the mid 14s from a stock vehicle).

    golf_nut....I don't think we can post the link to where you can find the info regarding this mod since it may violate Edmunds terms of use. Maybe a moderator can let us know? The site in question sells parts for the RX8.
    I am sorry to hear about the "price increase", though.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You could post it if a) there are no forums on the site and b) the posting person doesn't have any financial interest in the site or what it sells.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    remember...the dealer invoice is the true invoice. Edmunds numbers and other internet numbers often do not include legit charges that the dealer must pay, thus misleading consumers.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Shifty...thanks for the clarification! Feel free to correct me, but as an Edmunds moderator, you don't have to be a lawyer, just a bonafied "car nut".
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • onboost91onboost91 Member Posts: 86
    I dont own a RX8 (bought 2 vehicles in 2002..argh) but thought I'd chime in about the flooding issue. Has anyone tried to install a Turbo Timer? This seems like the perfect solution. I had one installed on my Toyota Mr2 Turbo. It attaches to the ignition and what it does is idle the car for a preset amount of time. For turbo cars this allows the turbo charger to cool down and prevents oil 'coking'. For an Rx8 it sounds like a great way to burn off the excess fuel. I'm not sure if any companies produce a wiring harness for the Rx8 since it isnt turbo charged but I'm pretty sure it is still do-able even without one. The timers only cost like $100 or so. Just a thought.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I'm familiar with the "tubotimers". First, I nver think it's a good idea to let a car idle for a long legnth of time unattended for many reasons (theft being the biggest of them).

    This flooding thing has really gotten out of hand. There are maybe 20 or so people who have identified themselves as having flooded their cars. Most of them followed the procedures in the manual to "unflood" their cars without any further incidence. The vast majority of owners have no problems at all with flooding.

    Those few that coudln't get their cars started after flooding them had "hotter" plugs installed under the warranty and that fixed their problem.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    told us what exactly? What are you referring to?

    The Prius now won NACOTY. That's great. They can add that to the MTCOTY that you mentioned earlier. Nothing wrong with that.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    By the way, I noticed in Autoweeks recent glowing review of the RX8 that they said only 2 owners returned their cars when Mazda offered the deal. I think that says alot about this car.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    gee35coupe Dec 24, 2003 10:54pm

    Which was my input after post 1542.

    That clarify things? There were a few good posts back there. Might wanna check em out since you missed em.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Yes, I saw that Autoweek review, too. RX8 owners love their vehicles.

    Regarding the Prius, if you're a Civic, Corolla, Focus, Neon, VW TDI or Accent lover, then that probably means more to those folks.

    If you're a performance car lover, then I doubt it's going to make a "hill of beans" worth of difference.

    I think the RX8 has had its share of accolades that more aren't going to matter.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • golf_nutgolf_nut Member Posts: 12
    I don't care how many awards the Prius wins. I still wouldn't buy one - at least not if I had to drive it. My mother wouldn't even drive that thing!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    i see. I mistook the blanket "I told you so" as being directed at everyone when, in fact, you were directing it at those few who complained of the Prius. I hate "I told you so" and, therefore, jumped the gun. Since it obviously wasn't directed at me (because I have no problem with the Prius winning) then I apologize for jumping on you about it. But, in all fairness, maybe a bit more explanation than "i told you so" is warranted in the future.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    How many awards the Prius was winning. In a quantitive manner of thinking. It was whether it should win THIS award. Read back to the above link, I'm sure you would see that was the point of what we were talking about. My point was that it deserved to win due to it's groundbreaking design and execution. As Motor Trend said in thier article. It is the first hybrid that...well I'll quote them.

    "The all-new 2004 Prius, however, is an altogether more compelling car. Not only is it the first hybrid that an enthusiast can truly enjoy, it provides a tantalizing preview of a future where extreme fuel-efficiency, ultra-low emissions, and stirring performance will happily coexist in one package."

    So I guess even an RX8 lover should be able to appreciate what the Prius offers.

    Point taken Gbrozen. My bad.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    agree.

    I think the Prius is a well-executed car. Is it perfect? No. would I own one? Absolutely. Who wouldn't want to get 55 mpg?? Would I like to own it as my ONLY car? Heck no! I'd be bored to tears.

    Maybe that's where the big difference is, though, now that I think about it. I WOULD own just the RX8 and nothing else. But, still, I don't think that's what COTY is all about. I think the Prius is a fine choice. And as far as advancing the car industry, I think its the best choice.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    would defeat the "chip in key" vehicle immobilizer. You would have to leave a key hidden within 1-2 ft. of the keyswitch. If anyone decides they absolutly must have a turbo timer or a cold start system, I strongly recommend they cut the metal part off the key they hide in the vehicle. Most determined thieves will know the key is in there somewhere.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Remind me again why we are wasting time talking about a Prius in the RX8 thread? Shouldn't this discussion be in the Prius thread. I doubt most of us here care about the Prius.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, thank you graphicguy, this is the RX8 forum and we should try to remain on topic.
    thanks!

    Host
  • mrcluelessmrclueless Member Posts: 3
    I would definitely consider a Prius... but there is one problem... I personally find the Prius on my top ten of the most bland/boring unattractive styled vehicles of all time (it rivals the Pontiac Aztec)

    In regards to technological achievement, I do love the Prius and respect Toyota for its efforts.

    But, NO! I would not drive a vehicle just merely because it moves from A to B and makes my life as boring and gray as an "Ogre" and not looking forward to drive tomorrow (or shell out a monthly payment for something so ugly).

    Now, in regards to the critics... I am not sure if they are looking at the same car I am looking at. Not even sure of the politics involved and how much they are paid (under the table, or endorsements for magazine they represent) to say what they say and promote the vehicle.

    If this design is considered futuristic it is probably at the "low" styling end of the future.

    On the other hand !! The RX8 is the only vehicle in recent years that I simply could NOT find any design flow on it from any perspective. The balance of aesthetics is phenomenal (I no longer crave for an Aston Martin). This vehicle is design elegance at its best.

    --Now if there was an RX8 Renesis Hybrid Vehicle AWD... I would sell my house to get one... ASAP.

    --
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    well, reason obviously was that the Prius and RX8 were 2 of the final 3 vehicles being considered for NACOTY. The Prius beat the RX8. That's all. But, yes, nuff said here about it I think.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Please, RX8 subjects ONLY, or I'll have to start removing any Prius posts for being off-topic.

    thanks again!

    MrShiftright
    Host
  • carlikercarliker Member Posts: 285
    That autoweek figure that you mentioned in an earlier post (concerning 2 returned RX-8 vehicles)is obviously incorrect. There were more than just mine and one other person's. As great of a feeling it is to be singled out, I'm not that exclusive. When the error was first discovered, there were already more than 30.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    When Mazda offered the original owners and pre-order customers the "buy back" option, there were approx 3000 units eligible. The return rate was about 2%. So, about 60 people took the buy back. Some of those turned around and bought another RX8 with different options and/or different color.

    Long and short of it, very few sent back the RX8 and bought something else.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    then i have to wonder why they said that. unless it was a sarcastic remark that was lost on me.

    or it was fed to them by mazda PR.

    or maybe they meant to say 2%, but screwed up.

    But still a pretty small number, as gg pointed out.

    But, where did you guys get your figures from?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • carlikercarliker Member Posts: 285
    I noticed in that article that they were talking about the AutoFile contributors. Where did you get that 2% figure, graphic? I suppose it depends on who you talk to about it. Anyway, the residual value they posted on Autoweek for an RX-8 with a 48 month lease looks pretty good:

    RESIDUALS
    $15,228 after 48-month lease,
    50.26 percent of new vehicle price

    I still think leases are less attractive than financing when it comes to cars that have a good long term value. You could own the a car like the RX-8 after 4 or 5 years and do better in a trade or in selling it since the car would still be worth a decent amount after the payments are all made. In theory, good residual values are suppose to keep monthly lease payments lower. However, with the down payments and all the other small print fees (ex. deposition fee at the end of lease) that go into leases, most leases are about the same for each car that is similarly priced.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    qbrozen....I think the article from Autoweek only took into account those who responded to their questionaire. That certainly would be less than all owners of the RX8s. Therefore, only 2 sent their's back.

    carliker....Mazda provided me with the % of returned and the number of cars that qualified. I've never been a fan of leases for many of the reasons you stipulate. First, you negotiate the price (although many dealers only quote leases based on MSRP....little do some consumers know that the lease prices can be negotiated). Then, all the little fees add up....origination fees, disposition fees, mileage overage fees, fees to fix scratches, etc.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • cheezeboycheezeboy Member Posts: 218
    I can't understand why anyone in their right mind, would sell back this car??.....[unless I get a harem of wives or a herd of kids (or BOTH!), I plan on keeping this car for a long time!]

    was the buyback that tempting to anyone really? I mean after you drove the car for awhile.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I was one of the owners who had the oportunity to have Mazda buy back my car. In all honesty, I thought seriously about it. When does anyone get a chance to drive a new car for a month or two and then give it back with no liability whatsoever? I had already driven all the usual competitors when I was shopping this past summer....350Z, G35C and sedan, Acura TL, RS, TS, Honda S2000, Toyota MR, Subie WRX, Mitsu EVO, Caddy CTS. I narrowed my choices to the RX8, the G35C and the 350Z. I drove those yet again until I finally settled on the RX8 (had to preorder the car I wanted, though). When I got the buyback letter, I re-test drove the 350Z, G35C and, of course, I owned the RX8. All-in-all, I always thought the RX8 was the better car, by a wide margin, for all the same reasons the trade rags have stated, including Edmunds. Once you jump from the competitors into the RX8, it becomes clear which is the better car to drive.

    I think there was some "hysteria" when the RX8 was announced. First, because it was the re-birth of the rotary, which in years past had a "cult" following before Mazda priced the previous model RX7 out of the reach of the mainstream sports car lover and subsequently pulled it from the market. As a previous 280Z owner, I was ready to jump on the 350Z before I drove the RX8. The RX8 spoiled me in that regard. I think some of that "hysteria" for the RX8 was blunted for many reasons....it wasn't a true 2-door coupe. There were no turbos (like the previous gen). Plus, there are some who have never owned a sports car and were unfamiliar to rotaries, in general.

    Some tuners were mad because Mazda hadn't made it very easy for them to "tweak" the RX8 (the first worthwhile "mod" seems to be the "Stage 1" from "canzoomer"). Of course, many of the tuners were also the first ones to take delivery of the RX8. A few tuners wanted to "track" their cars. That's where the HP issue first came to light. The first ones off the boat also had a some minor issue regarding the "low oil" sensors (mine included) where a baffle and a new
    "oil level" sensor had to be installed. I believe the cars being delivered now have this "fix" from the factory. Then there was the CEL issue. Again, minor and, again fully addressed under warranty (mine included). This should also already be addressed as a running manufacturing change.

    The rest is just not knowing how the rotary should be treated. Although, everyday use and maintenance isn't any worse than a piston engine, they do like to be treated differently. That's the part most don't understand. They like to rev....a lot. They aren't going to run correctly if you drive them like a Malibu, for example.

    While not a problem for me, some in colder climates insist on shutting their's down "stone cold". That's not good for any car and will cause flooding issues. Again, it's not better or worse, just different than other cars that have piston engines. Check the oil every 3rd fill-up or so...that's something every car owner should do.

    Know the car, and you'll be rewarded with a car that is "fast as stink" (as TopGear says), that's one of the best handling cars on the planet, that's comfortable, that can fit two extra people in the back, that shifts like a Miata (one of the best manual trannys in the biz).

    The RX8 is a sports car, first and foremost. While it can be a good 0-60 blaster (get a Corvette or a Cobra if that's "your thing"), by using that parameter only, you'll be disappointed. It's still very fast, though.

    You have to look at the car as a whole, not just one parameter to appreciate what it is.

    It's kind of like having a spouse, b/f or g/f and stating the only reason you're with them is because they are beautiful on the outside, but a real "pain" as a person. We choose those who are both beautiful (in our eyes) inside and out, and someone we want to spend a lot of time with.

    The RX8 is the "whole" package. IT's the one you want to be with every day, or as Edmunds says:

    "...consider its stylish and comfortable interior, usable rear seats and very reasonable price, and it's easy to see why it makes the 350Z look crude in comparison. The Z may be faster, but the RX-8 is the better sports car."
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That story reminds me of how often I would sell one of my "interesting" cars, maybe a Porsche or MG, all of which ran very well for me for years, and within two weeks the new owner was having trouble with it. Reason? Didn't know the car they were driving, so they would load up the spark plugs by short-shifting, or they over-ran the manual choke. One guy (absolutely true story) drove my ex-914 for an entire year by starting out in second gear! He didn't know about the unusual shift pattern that required 1st gear in a single position, to the left and down. Then there's the one who put gasoline in a turbo diesel of mine...oh, well, you get the idea.
  • carlikercarliker Member Posts: 285
    How did you become an Edmunds post host?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Reality TV.

    Just kidding. I was recruited when it first started years ago, by recommendation from other work I did online. (the old "Well", a pioneer message board from the 1980s).

    But e-mail me CL if you want more info or to chat. Don't wish to go off-topic here.

    Shifty
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    My early experiences with "real" sports cars started with an MGB-GT (and then onto a Fiat X 1/9). I had had "muscle cars" previous to that, but like other cars out there, those were all about 1/4 times and that was about the extent of it.

    As you and I have mentioned before, there's something about a lightweight high performance sports car that others just can't seem to duplicate...regardless of engine size or horse power.

    Funny story about the Porsche. I always wanted the 914 (and the 944 turbo, the 911 and the 968). I just could never find one in decent enough shape.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    This is 2004. Year of sealed transmissions and 10,000 mile interval oil changes. That "whole package" has no place in a sub-$30K car of any type. It's gonna lead to a short life span of these cars due to the higher maint vs. value. At least it will for those that don't subscribe to the "whole package" idea of car ownership.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well hopefully the proper cars will find their right owners. They all do, eventually. This is what makes them "collectible". They come home to daddy.

    Besides, if you make an "fool-proof" sports car, it's not likely to be much fun anyway. I don't need to name brand names. I can't really think of an exciting car that was truly pleasurable to drive that didn't require some serious thinking or knowledge on the part of the driver.

    If you mash the gas in a Viper on a hard turn, or forget about turbo lag on an early Porsche 930, or don't do the 30K service on your Ferrari at exactly 30,0001 miles, or shift your Honda S2000 at 1,800 rpm, you are going to pay the price, that's it. There's nothing "wrong" with the car IMO.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    My '99 Civic is a great car for what it does. It starts, runs, and isn't cause for much thought. I check and change the oil regularly and do the regular maintenance as presribed in the manual. Is it economical?....you bet. Is it "fun"?....not by a long shot.

    My RX8 runs fast, has great balance and handling and is comfortable to boot. It is the definition of fun to drive. Is it as reliable as the Civic?...absolutely. Is it as economical to own....nope. But, I'd trade some of that economy and boring character for a little more "spice". The Civic gives me "boring" in spades. If I tried to drive the Civic like I do the RX8, I'll end up smashed into a tree or in a ditch (or blowing up the engine). Conversely, if I expected to get 40 MPG out of the RX8 like I do with the Civic, I'm going to be sorely disappointed. That doesn't mean both cars aren't great values. Considering what each of them do, they are tremendous values in their own right.

    Just knowing what each can and can not do helps immeasuably with my expectations with either.

    I just need to know how the cars differ and treat them accordingly. I could say the same with any high performance car (or any "middle of the road" car, for that matter)....you just have to know what their character is and how to treat them.

    As mentioned before, they are both reliable cars and take little in the way of maintenance. Knowing how they are different goes a long way in my appreciation of both, however.

    BTW...I'd never go 10K miles between oil changes on any car, regardless of what the manual states. That's asking for trouble.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    The first three are hardly $30K even very used. And if you shift a S2000 at 1800 you won't move. Heck it runs over 2000 rpm at 30mph in 6th

    My point was at the $30K and below threshold, cars with "character" that effect it's maintenance have a short shelf life and a short life in general. Early on, the car developes a reputation for being maintenance intensive killing sales then later that tendency starts causing casualties as lack of said maintence wanes. Next thing you know you have a marketplace full of barely running examples from owners who weren't told the car was "special".

    There are very few cars that turn out to be collectors editions at this price point. Of the last edition Supra, 300Z, RX7, 3000GT of the late 80's few if any are thought of as collectible. They may be desirable, but more as potential street racers than collectibles. They may have die hard enthusiasts but those cars are far from collectors editions.

    My Toyota's have been 7500 mile interval since my 200K Tercel and I follow that interval. No oil related issues. I have no problem going 10,000 miles in a non-turbo vehicle as long as it has been tuned for that interval. If I need a tune-up in that time I would change the oil since the car wuold not have been running up to spec.
  • carlikercarliker Member Posts: 285
    I think shifty was just explaining that cars which will thrill need more attention in some manner (whether in maintenance or in driving) than your basic car. That's what makes the sports cars more fun and exciting.

    As collectibles go, the '97 Twin Turbo Supra would be an example of one since it was a limited edition, not many were made with the TT during that year and were well-maintained (with low mileage). Car enthusiasts had a craving for those cars after those kind of vehicles were no longer made (300ZX, 3rd gen. of RX-7 and the Supra TT, and thus, the demand grew. The Ford Thunderbird may become a collectible since they are stopping production after the 2004. Not necessarily a great vehicle, but the limited production combined with only four production years raises it's collectible value. That car's price point was $35K-$40. So if the RX-8 does not do well and Mazda cuts the production after two years, that actually benefits it as a collectible. Has nothing to do with its price point being around $30K. The price point has nothing to do with it if the car is in demand due to a shortage of production. The SVT Focus will probably be a collectible some day since Ford is pulling the SVT line and that car is only around $19K. The Lincoln Blackwood and Chrysler Prowler are other examples of cars that failed profit wise but can benefit an owner that wants a collectible.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    That's exactly what we're talking about. Cars like the Tercel, Civic, Accord, Camry, LeSabre, Taurus, etc are built and marketed to those that say..."I'll change my oil the least amount of time allowable....I may not even read the owners manual. These, and others like them, are marketed to the "my car is an appliance" crowd.

    That's why they have no pretensions of being high performance.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    just so yall know i don't dis the RX8 at all, i voted for it on Road and Track COY poll.

    other candidates were new 5, GT3, STi. there was one more car, but now i can't remember what it was. i thought the RX had greater significance since it's not a rehash of the same old formula for performance.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I would agree that if you are really shopping for a "TA" car (transportation appliance), the less hassle the better.

    But you can find fun cars under $30K that need a special touch---the two are not mutually exclusive.

    Having a somewhat "demanding" car is a lot like a marriage. You give up stuff but you get this whole other thing back (hopefully, theoretically, so to speak).

    From the short drives I've taken, the RX8 seems easily worth whatever little extra care you need to give it, IMO. Your results may vary of course.

    I liked the RX7 3rd gen, I liked the Miata, and I like that they are the only Japanese company in history to win LeMans....in a rotary engine car, I might add.
  • cheezeboycheezeboy Member Posts: 218
    hey all, any of you fine folks know of a good book on the history of Mazda and the RX? Not a coffee table book, but something with some in-depth knowledge about it?....I need some more reading material!
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