Mazda RX-8

cheezeboy · January 2005

here I am reading this and hopeing it ends with: "and then the female officer winked at me and let me go with a warning."........ :-)

I've had my RX8 for 1.25 years now and can say that she is the best damn car I've owned. The thing that kills me is that in my complex is a beautiful Red Gen3 RX7,that sits about 100 yards from my 8....and it never moves!!....for 6 months it has just sat there!!!...what is the owner thinking!?!...If I hadn't spent all my $ on Xmas gifts, I would be over there offering something for it.....just plain wrong in my book....

and gguy - since the M flash, I've been getting about 250+ miles out of a tank on mostly highway driving....what are you getting on a full tank?...

PF_Flyer · January 2005

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graphicguy · January 2005

I always fill-up at the 1/4 tank mark, so I don't know what I'd get on a full tank. I haven't checked MPG in a while, but the last all highway run I checked the MPG I got 25 MPG with cruise set at 75 MPH. Last time I checked all city driving, I got 18 MPG. I get 19 MPG, give or take, in my usual city/highway mix.

That said, I don't do much in the way of rush hour or stop and go driving, either.

zoomzoom626 · January 2005

Pathstar,

Thanks for a very usefull information. Despite all drawbacks I think I will go with RX-7..The feel when twin turbos kick in is just something that puts the grin on my face every time...

pathstar1 · January 2005

Actually, to nitpick, the twin turbos don't come on. It starts on the front turbo and then at 4500 RPM (as I recall) the second turbo comes on as well. Beware of this event. It can break the rear tires loose. This is exciting, especially if you are in the middle of a corner when it happens (80 MPH loop). Happened to a list member a few years back.

You can modify it to "non-sequential" operation of course, but this makes it harder to drive.

For the first year I owned the car I was "afraid" of the accellerator pedal. Things happened fast when it was pressed.

My current opinion is the 3rd gen RX-7 is very nice, but really too much car for any public road I'm aware of. "WHEN" you make a mistake (and you will), you find yourself -in- very deep!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

I love the 3rd gen RX-7. That was probably the only real Japanese coupe, along with the NSX, you could call a "true 100% sports car". A minimalist car, still shockingly fast for its age, and demanding great maintenance and great driving skill. Also beautiful, prettiest Japanese car ever made IMO. Not a car for everyone though.

tomatnavy · January 2005

Speaking about the last generation rx7--here is a couple items from the past: Both were found in road and track of the early 90's.One article addressed the 5 best sports cars in the universe.They considered a ferrari,a lamborghini, a porsche,the rx7, and another that I forgot.Interesting that the rx7 would be considered with these kind of cars.Even more interesting was the rating that it got. One editor thought it might be the top one or two best sports car of the time! The other article was a comparison of reworked turbo cars of the time.Included were the turbo nissan 300Z,turbo supra,mitsubishi turbo,rx7 and possibly a few others.They had these cars reworked for more performance--engine,suspension,and the like. They tried to get the most performance for the dollar.They spent anywhere from 8000[rx7] to 30000.For all cars except one, the additions made these cars much better performance wise.However, the rx7 could not be improved upon--after the shop's work it actually performed about the same as the stock rx7. I think these two articles taken together show the kind of car the rx7 was.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

And of course let us not forget that the Mazda rotary engine won Le Mans, with Mazda being the only Japanese automaker to do so.

peg · January 2005

i am buying either the 350z or the rx8 as a gift. which one do you think is a better ride and car. if you dont know does anyone out there that can answer that question

graphicguy · January 2005

Peg...I'm going to offer a biased opinion since I own an RX8. I did extensive drives between the 350Z (and it's cousin, the Infiniti G35 Coupe) and the RX8. Obviouly, I chose the RX8.

Reasons for doing so had the RX8 with..

--better handling

--better shifter

--better interior and overall build quality

--better ride

--more room (particularly when compared to the hatch area in the 350Z)

--rear doors

--better materials used throughout

--while acceleration will be slightly better in the 350Z (insignificant amount compared to the RX8), it is on par with the Infiniti G35 coupe)

--wonderful sound of the RX8 engine

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. Either car will please someone as a gift (very nice gift, by the way). I just feel the RX8 is an all around better sports car (and better car, period).

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

I haven't driven the Z car very much (ten minutes or so), so I can't say much of anything except that personally it's not terribly handsome from the rear end IMO. I would chose the RX-8 strictly on looks if all else was equal. Also the RX-8 strikes me as a bit more practical.

graphicguy · January 2005

You owe it to yourself to drive the 350Z. Not a bad offering, but as you say, I think one would tire of it quickly. Even current Corvettes ride better. The first thing that struck me on the very first of about 6 test drives was the feeling of sitting in a bathtub with the Z. The G35 Coupe has a better seating position, however.

I can already seeing the Z styling as getting a bit "wearing". Styling is highly subjective, however.

It's a quick car, no doubt. But, so is the RX8.

Plus, as a daily driver, the RX8 does offer quite a bit more satisfaction. The shifter alone in the RX8 tilted my decision (9K redline and the glorious sound the rotary makes had a lot to do with it, too). Shifter in the Z felt bulky and the car in general felt sluggish, even though it has high handling capabilities. I just felt I had to work too hard to get the performance out of it.

The RX8, on the other hand, felt very "connected" to me, the driver.

rx8loc · January 2005

I totally agree with you about using the 8 as a daily commuter. But never test drove the G35 or Z before I bought the 8.

I had the car for over a year with 22k miles on it. I'm loving it everyday about it's handling, precise shifting, sound(engine), improving MPG figure (18-22 mix), and other's ppl admiration for the car.

cheezeboy · January 2005

Peg - gotta agree with gguy on the 'bathtub' feeling in the Z. Again, it is a subjective feeling... You say you are buying as a 'gift'. Something like this, the choice between sports cars, really needs to be decided by the driver. If the 'gift' isn't for you, then you might want to have the person who will be driving test drive them as well.....Unless it's supposed to be a surprise....then in my book, any gift, which is a brand new car, is good!!! :-)

Good luck!

peg · January 2005

i am looking at the different models of the rx8. what do you think of the base one versus the sporty model and the touring model. i heard there was a difference in the suspension between the base model and the sporty one. help. thanks

the_big_h · January 2005

all the North American market 6-speed RX-8 with the standard high-power engine come with 'sport tuned' suspension, which includes the 18" wheels.

the only 'soft' suspension for the 8 is from the base model automatic 'low power' RX-8s.

as for which trim you want to get, I have the base trim 6-speed RX-8 and I couldn't be happier (my wallet is happy too!)

peg · January 2005

i can get a base 04 for 22,000 with 2500 miles

or a new 04 sport for 26,00 drive out.

the difference they told me were the xenon and fog lights and traction feature. and you are saying the rx 8, 6 speed base and sport have the same suspension. i am buying this for my 25 year old son and i want to make sure i understand everything. i dont care about the lights but what about the special traction feature. thanks peggy

peg · January 2005

(the only 'soft' suspension for the 8 is from the base model automatic 'low power' RX-8s.)

are you saying soft is not good. dont understand suspension. and the lower power is just automatic?

jsh1120 · January 2005

Peg,

At those prices, I believe you're better off with the "Sport" package. The traction control (TCS) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) are especially desirable options in adverse driving conditions. If I were buying the car for my son, I would opt for the Sport model. Finally, it's always nice to have control of the break-in period (first 2000 miles) to assure the longevity of the engine.

peg · January 2005

i was told from a dealer that he would sell me drive out 26,000 for sport rx8 model. but on the kelly blue book it is 26,735.is that including tax with blue book? should i try to get him lower. i do not think he will.

the_big_h · January 2005

for 26k out-of-door, then i'd say it's a pretty good deal.

KBB price is *always* pre-tax/fees

and yes, i am saying that ALL 6 speed RX-8's have the same suspension, so the only difference between a base model and sport model RX-8 are the HID headlights, fog lights, and DSC/TCS.

and after 2 months with the base RX-8, and having it run through quite a few lousy weather days, I'd say it does just fine, save for snow of course. You will need winter tires for the RX-8 if you want to drive in snow, regardless if you have traction control or not.

and I would second jsh's recommendation, get the 'new' 04 sport for 26k if it's financially possible :-)

pathstar1 · January 2005

The automatic trans. can't take RPM above 7500 (at least for very long). It's actually the torque converter that limits the RPM, not the gearset in the trans., but that's just an asside, as it's part of the transmission.

Sooo, to give owners an automatic, Mazda had to "optimize" the renesis below 7500 RPM. They removed the extra ports that only have a noticable effect at high RPM and retuned to enhance torque at low RPMs. The engine lost HP as the renesis is a low torque high RPM engine - so if you don't use high RPM you don't get high HP. HP is RPM times torque, basically.

Many auto owners are happy with their cars. The manual owners were after a "different" package, and probably wouldn't be happy with the automatic set of features. Mazda managed to give both types of people most of what they wanted.

A soft suspension is fine vs a "firm" suspension. Each is better for different purposes. A firm suspension is better for "performance" driving, such as autocross. A soft suspension is nicer comfort wise. Most people wouldn't notice the difference between the two offered on the RX-8.

As posted above, if you live where there is winter, you will need winter tires. For example, here in Edmonton Alberta we can have snow on the roads for 6 months a year, typically. We use Nokian WR tires mounted on AR rims (used 17" to gain a little ice clearance in the wheel-wells). They work very well. If you do this, when the winter wheels are mounted you will have a low tire pressure monitor light on because the replacement rims don't have the sensors mounted (unless you buy them). It doesn't cause any other effects.

So to sum up, there are in effect three versions of the RX-8 in the USA. The packages vary from country to country. e.g. in Canada headlamp washers are in one package, but are not offered in the US, and the option packages are slightly different. I'll list the US packages as I understand them:

Automatic - "low power" engine and slightly softer suspension, other option packages similar to manual trans.

Manual trans base model - doesn't have DSC (dynamic stability control) and TCS (traction control system). It does have four channel antilock brakes and airbags, of course.

Sport model - has DSC and TCS. Leather, AC, and sunroof are options grouped in some packages, as is the Bose stereo system and the navigation package.

The DSC and TCS are a good option for a young inexperienced driver. They can save you from yourself. Us old experienced drivers like them as well ;-).

From reports I've read, the RX-8 has performed very well when mistakes were made by the driver or other drivers. It's saved some from being hit (DSC and TCS allowed them to avoid the other vehicle), and the safety systems have saved the lives of many others. A nice bonus in a "sporty" car.

rorr · January 2005

To make sure everyone is on the same page:

The RX-8 is available with a 'sport' package on both the automatic equipped (low power) RX-8 as well as on the 6-spd manual equipped (high power) RX-8. The 'sport' package on the automatic version of the RX-8 has the xenon lights, the traction/stability control AS WELL AS a sport-tuned suspension. The 6-spd manual version of the RX-8 has the sport-tuned suspension as standard equipment; the 'sport' package for the 6-spd manual gives the owner the xenon lights, traction/stability control and fog lights.

The dealer quote of 26k for an '04 sport RX-8; was that for an automatic equipped car (not such a huge bargain anymore) or for a 6-spd manual car?

peg · January 2005

6 speed touring package with 9,000 miles

peg · January 2005

where would i buy one and what are the pros and cons. does anyone out there have one

graphicguy · January 2005

I'm not a big bra fan. Over time, the paint under the bra will be a different shade than the rest of the car. Plus, I don't want to cover up the good looking front end of the car. I'll live with a few stone chips if I don't have to "mask" the front end.

I'm sure there are at least some custom bra manufacturers that will make one for you if you're so inclined, though.

rotoryfan · January 2005

Hi, I did a search on this topic but did not get any returns...

I have a 2004 RX-8 (6 sp, GT. Great car, no problems). The new 2005 has a new key fob design...the key folds into the fob.

This is a minor thing, but I was wondering if the new fob can be substitued for the old one (i.e. can the 2005 fob be programmed for a 2004? I assume the metal key can be cut to fix the 2004).

Has anyone tried this? I called a dealer (service and parts depts.) and no one is sure - they have not tried to replace an 2004 key/fob with a 2005 style).

Thanks in advance. Cheers

rotoryfan · January 2005

RE: question about bras (car type ;>) ) -

  like graphic, I would not recommend the bra. I had on for my '82 RX-7 and used it for a while. It trapped moisture under the bra/against the paint and could have caused a problem overtime. Also, it really detracted from the look of the car.

   When I bought my RX-8 (a year ago), I investigated the clear "3M" 9-12mm "plastic-type" material that can be installed (professionally) to protect the front end paint (and headlights). (imagine a clear, thick shrink wrap on the front bumper and first few inches of the hood/fenders - looks basically invisible when done right). This is to protect from stone chips (I did not do it because I could not find a price I thought was reasonable - so I gave up on the idea, maybe these prices have come down).

  peg, good luck with your purchase.

graphicguy · January 2005

I looked into this myself. Dealer says the '05 FOB and the '04 key isn't compatible. They wouldn't say why, but I'm sure if that's the case, it's just a matter of time before someone hacks it and offers it for sale in the 3rd party market.

mugster1 · January 2005

ive just Joined the group , have bought a 2004 RX8GT blk w blk tan leather . Love it .

ted12 · January 2005

I live in a cold climate (Alberta, Canada) and am considering buying an RX8. I understand that the engine compartment has no room for an engine block heater and, in fact, Mazda does not make one for the RX8. Given my residential set-up (town house with one-car garage), my car is often outside at night. Temperatures these last few weeks have been in the -20 degrees Celsius range. Do you think the RX8 will start at those temperatures without a block heater?

mugster1 · January 2005

I live in Toronto, went outside this morning the temp was -35 with windchill . No problem starting one turn . On the otherhand my other car ,2004 V40 took a couple of trys .

ted12 · January 2005

Was your car in a garage, or on the street?

pathstar1 · January 2005

We've beeen dealing with this for two years now. When it gets below -30C the RX-8 will not start (it floods). The engine is slightly different from the older RX-7, so the external block heater I have will not quite fit (it went externally around the plug area on the older rotary engine). There aren't any frost plugs for a block heater though there are places you could put an external one, but Mazda doesn't want us to install it as it might cause problems for the engine. What they told us was the sensors would be fooled into thinking it was warmer and the electronics could rev the engine too much causing damage.

My personal feeling is a recirculating block heater in the heater hose would be a GOOD IDEA (pat. pending ;-). At the least, a battery heater (wrap around type), and oil pan heater would help.

mugster1 · January 2005

outside on the driveway .

ted12 · January 2005

The local Mazda dealer suggested (as you have) installation of an oil pan heater. Alternatively, a friend of mine suggested some kind of heating element in the radiator hose (he says he installed this on his Viper). In any event, the Mazda service tech said that he has seen quite a few RX8s towed to the dealership because of flooding (even with the pan heater). I'm concerned about this propensity to flood. Is this a big problem with the RX8?

mugster1 · January 2005

Ive heard a lot of story relating to flooding of the 8 but my experience has been good so far . Short distinces seem to be the big factor , quick on quick off

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

Back in the old days of the 1960s and 70s, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, people used to put those little clamp lights under the engine, on the floor. Just enough heat from the bulb to trap itself under the hood and perhaps heat the oil a little and give the car a little extra boost.

Battery heaters are a good idea. Your battery can lose up to 40% cranking power in cold weather!

graphicguy · January 2005

I like Shifty's idea. Put some heat lamps under the car to keep the battery/oil/coolant above freezing.

Some of the very early models of the RX8 did have some issues with flooding (mine was an early model, but has never flooded....even this winter with below zero temps).

There have been many updates to the ECM of the RX8 that have all but eliminated the issue. Still, as a precaution, just make sure you warm the car up before you drive off and you should be fine.

pathstar1 · January 2005

is almost inevitable. I'm talking COLD, so cold you don't sink into the seat, your nose hairs tickle due to the moisture freezing on them when you exhale, etc. (below -20, and especially -30). Even with a tow truck boost and 30 min. of cranking we didn't even have a hint of firing last winter when it was -30 and below for a few weeks. The car had the latest flash (M), and when the plugs were pulled they were soaked in fuel. This winter we haven't tried to start it when it gets down that cold.

The in-line "block heater" that goes into the heater hose is the best solution, though I'd put the oil pan heater in too as it's not nice to rev. up an engine with really cold oil (the in-line heater would only heat the oil in the upper part of the engine, not the oil resting in the pan). You don't have control of the throttle on the RX-8 - it's a "fly by wire" system, so the PCM revs. the engine up when you start it cold.

The in-line heaters pump the coolant through the engine using the heater circuit. They must be installed correctly, directionally and with the correct slope. They are not large devices, and I'm sure they will fit, it's just difficult to install them as the heater hoses are routed under the passenger side of the engine. A hoist and removal of the under cover is required to do that job.

The old light bulb under the hood used to work well on the west coast, but never helped here in Alberta where we have "real" winter.

You should also note you will have to change the tires. The OEM tires are summer performance tires and DO NOT work for winter driving, snow or not. We have found Nokian WR tires to work great (I also put them on my Nissan Pathfinder and they make a huge differance)! I suggest buying inexpensive rims (we selected AR) and mounting the winter tires on them. The Nokian tires also work well on ice, and in the rain, and have an amazing treadwear guarantee - not pro-rated!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

A light bulb in a reflector will work fine even in Canada if you have a garage. 150 watts puts out a lot of heat. If you don't think so, go grab one when it's lit....(no, just kidding, don't do that).

-30 is pretty severe weather. There are plenty of cars that are not going to start in that kind of weather, like every diesel within 100 miles for instance unless it has an ether booster.

graphicguy · January 2005

pathstar....yea, -30 is pretty darn cold. I wouldn't try to start any car at that temp. Battery will crank real slow (if at all) at that temp. Plus, the oil will be more akin to mollases at that temp.

Shifty...I've used the old "light bulb" trick under the engine bay.

But, short of using an oil heater, a battery blanket and a block heater, I wouldn't attempt starting any car at those temps.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

Tough on engines, too, cold starts like that.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

I think we posted this Edmunds comparo for the Mustang, RX-8 and 350Z earlier, but for newcomers I'd like to post it again and get people's comments if they wish:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=10- 4196

shifty the Host

55535432 · January 2005

Hi Pathstar,

How are your Nokian tires working ? Do you have the all season tires which is also rated as a snow performer (The Nokian WR AWP 2SUV). Does it really do the it's winter job well?. I live in MD and to get those I have to drive 98 miles to the nearest dealership in PA.

pathstar1 · January 2005

were the solution on my Pathfinder. I thought the ABS was way too sensitive right from when the vehicle was new - sliding though intersections with it buzzing away. Put the Nokian WRs on the RX-8 and drove it all winter (last year) with no problems. Figured if I let the OE Pathfinder tires last me another winter (the tread was still fine) it would cost me plenty - due to sliding into someone - so had the Nokians installed last fall. They are so good I find myself driving around like it's summer - on the ice and snow. Got to watch myself on that. BTW, they are much more aggressive than the OE tires the Pathfinder came with - disgraceful in my opinion that an "off road capable" vehicle would come with such tires.

The part number you list was the one used on the Pathfinder. The RX-8 didn't have the "SUV" designation (that just came out last summer). I think they are the same tire - just that the "SUV" model are slightly heavier built for the much heavier SUVs (my Pathfinder is 4300 lbs).

Best part - you can leave the Nokian WRs on all year long if you like. They wear normally on dry warm roads. They come with a lot of tread, and are warranted for 100,000 km (Canada) replacement. If they wear out before 100,000 km they will replace them with no mileage charge! How can you beat that?

jsh1120 · January 2005

A rather odd comparison of a couple of apples and an orange. Have to say, however, that the RX-8 would have done much better if they hadn't put 800 lbs of cement in the trunk.

(Weight of the RX-8 is obviously incorrect.)

graphicguy · January 2005

Yeah....that is kind of a two oranges and one apple comparison. Not taking anything away from the Mustang GT. I've driven it (twice) and like what Ford has done with it.

The 350Z vs RX8 has been compared to death. I've yet to see any reasonable test that the RX8 didn't come out the winner between the two.

RX8 vs Mustang GT is an entirely different animal, though. One is an all-american muscle car and one is a "slice & dice" sports car. In short, they both drive very, very differently. Depends on what you want.

Either someone made a major weight error with the test RX8, or someone indeed had two hulking 390 pound offensive lineman sitting in the back seat when they tested the RX8.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

Camparos are tricky. I remember a camparo between an Infiniti G35, a Lexus and a BMW 545. The G35 got high marks, as did the Lexus yet when I drove all three cars there were night and day differences.

graphicguy · January 2005

I find some people (and even some professional reviewers) that have different preferences in what they like/dislike. You'll have a hard time finding someone who likes a high winding motor teamed with a great handling/riding chasis (like the RX8) to show much love towards an American muscle car that will exhibit big 0-60 or 1/4 numbers.

These are two entirely different beasts. I like both the Mustang GT and the RX8. But, I like them for entirely different reasons.

To me anyway, it's about the entire driving experience, just not how fast you get to the next stoplight. The Mustang GT is probably the best muscle car I've ever driven (that includes some highly regarded ones, too). IF you're looking for the muscle car experience (that's a big IF in my book), you won't find anything else that will compare for the price. IF you want a bonafied sports car, then the RX8 is the slam dunk at the price.

Numbers on paper don't remotely tell the whole story with either of these cars.

Mazda RX-8

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