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Comments
Why the heck are you wanting to get an RX-8?
The car has terrible resale value, drinks gas like an SUV (I got 14.3 mpg on my last tank), drinks oil like a Sultan (about 1 qt every 2-3k). To offset this, it has a SUPER manual transmission and shifter, great handling, and nice acceleration. If you get an auto 8 you are missing most of the fun - if you get a base auto 8 you miss it all.
If comfort and smooth shifting are your priorities get an Accord LX I4 for around $17.5k, add a little more for the alloy EX or spring for the V-6 Accord. Rock solid reliability and resale value, much more comfortable, and much better gas mileage. Room for 4 adults easy and 5 in a pinch and a huge trunk, FWD for easy go in the snow.
The things that make ME want to put up with all the bad things of the 8 are all missing from your choice of models and options. So ask yourself why you want and 8 - and you may find there are lots of other cars for the money that would be better choices.
You can get anything you want, but I just wonder why you want a stripper auto 8.
Dennis
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I had an RX-7 1987, but sold it after I moved to Boston because I bought the line of folks like yourself about all the problem with the RX-7. I WAS A FOOL then I AM NOT A FOOL now.
Even WHEN gas goes to $5/gal (and we will get there because of Bush) the RX-8 will be wonderful to own and drive. See, it's not about the utility of the vehicle, it's about the unique engine and the classic sports car feel.
There was a classic car exhibit at the Boston Museum of Art a while back. The feeling I got when I walked among those classics is the exact same feeling I get when ever I see an RX-8 on the street. Believe me, that feeling is GOLD baby.
As for the six speed shifter vs the 4 speed auto, I had to give up on shifters in Boston. Too much freak'n work in the traffic jams that happen often at the worst times when I'm tired from work. I'm not the stereotypical Boston driver throwing a fit behind the wheel fighting for every square inch of position on the road.
I just want a little bit of RX-8 zoom zoom and I need a good deal for my wife to bless my decision. I know I'm a pitiful guy, but after a decade of missing my rotary engine humming along I'll take anything I can get.
They did mention a little about 8, which was to sustain it's place as 7 won't be coming soon. Their claim was that either 3 rotor or a couple turbos are absolute necessity, but it's still hard to compete against others. Based on their source, current Renesis has very little potential as a modern high-power sportscar.
I still enjoy driving Vert-FC for its nature, but I also really want MS8, which I can't afford to individualy upgrade... It's probably a real small market, but there is at least one person here!
Sorry it's not about 8, but I wanted to give some headsup to the Rotaryheads that Rotary will continue!!!
My heart aches every day as I miss the wide open highways around Greensboro NC. Driving up and down I40 and I85, or flying down route 15-501 in eastern NC near Fort Brag was my life style back then. Where as up here in the Northeast, Route 128 in MA is a freak'n moving parking lot most days.
If I can just get my soul back in an RX-8, life will greatly improve. I'm going to take a trip to NC and drive the whole length of the Blue Ridge Parkway praying to God and Jesus to let me come home.
Since I qualify for the S-plan, is it smarter to buy a 2005 new for the few thousand dollars difference it would be? What were the big changes made to the 2005 model (I've read the sole difference was satellelite radio component, but also that the 2004s had more engine flooding issues?). Rule of thumb, never to buy a car the first year it comes out? :confuse:
In terms of resale, the 2004 is almost two years old now. I tend to put a LOT of miles on a car (my Jeep is currently a 2002 with 76K - ouch!). Should this matter?
So, experts... whatcha think? Should I enjoy the find of a 2004 in the color I want, or go with a brand new one for a few thousand more with my fabulous S-plan and settle for another color (can't find a red one I want within 100 miles of here). All the colors are fabulous, though... so it's not really settling, right? :shades:
But I daydream about winning blue.
What is the price differential? What is the good deal on that 2004? There's someone in Boston area selling a well-cared-for black sport pkg 2004 RX-8 with only 13K miles, asking $22-23K. KBB value is $22750. Looks like a great deal, essentially a new car, but: 1) the price difference is not good enough from the 25.5K invoice price (incl. MAC $1000 rebate), 2) i really want winning blue, 3) there's only less than 3 years left on the warranty, 4) financing is easier to get for new cars. So at $22K, I'm looking at $3.5K difference, and it just doesn't justify compromising the color choice, risking worse financing and not having that "from day one" ownership experience. If we were talking $19K, then it'd be a different story.
So you have to look at that. Just how much is the price difference between the new RX-8 you want and the used RX-8?
Also, 2005 models have more kinks worked out (not that you can't get all the service & recalls done for the 2004, but it's less work). There's even a chance that you will get a 2005 RX-8 in the "group 2" category, that had the recall work done at the factory (as in, came out correctly out the door). That's even better.
If anyone is looking at an AUTOMATIC. Please wait until 2006. 2006 model brings a higher-powered, 6-speed automatic. You'll have a lot more fun in a 2006, as 4 gears in an automatic are not as nice as six. Plus more power, a more appropriate way to enjoy the 8.
I would also recommend against the base pkg, whether AT or sport, because, unless you're an experienced RWD driver, you want the dynamic stability control. It's particularly important in the wet weather and snow. The RX-8 is a capable winter performer (limited slip differential helps a lot) in good snow tires (stock tires == death, skating rink), but the DSC will keep your rear end in check (as much as possible) and help you stay the course in emergency situations.
Plus, Xenons rock.
Also, please keep the political discussion out of the way. Pouring dirt over the people in a geographic area because of political disagreements does not make for a productive discussion.
BTW, rx8club.com is a good forum full of RX-8 enthusiasts .
Difference in price is about 4-5K or so. I am waiting for some calls back on S-plan pricing for a few models. I'd probably get silver if I didn't get the red one. :shades: My current car is silver, so I wanted something different. But I think going from a Jeep to a RX8 is a big enough change! Your ideas on 2004 help a lot, esp with warrenty and financing.
Going for the MT... I learned how to drive stick this summer JUST to buy it. Haaha. (See thread from last month or so on this forum). If I wanted AT, I'd definitely wait for 2006 from what I've read as well.
At least Touring package for me... GOTTA have that sunroof.
Thanks to all for the comments and reading! Can ya tell it's the first time I bought my own car?
Be sure that if you're financing via Mazda North American Credit, that you do get that $1000 rebate. All rebates can be applied on top of S-Plan.
I'm not a fan of silver (everyone has silver), but the car still looks good
Don't give up on red. Search for more than 100 miles away. You can call (800) 639-1000 or e-mail friendatmazda@mazdausa.com for a free service, where the reps will help you locate the car you want in your area, outside your area and anywhere in the country. Your dealer can order the car to be shipped (probably a $100 charge?) from another dealership. If you find a red one that's 200 miles away, why not pay $100 to have the classic sportscar color?
If you can wait, I would advise waiting a month or two until 2006s appear on the lots. Chances are that Mazda is going to up the incentives on the 2005s to get them cleared out. Last year, albeit part due to way too many 2004s still on the lots, Mazda was offering rebates to the tune of $2500-3500. That's $2500 under your S-Plan price. I'm hoping for the same or similar this fall. Of course, by waiting, you reduce the chances of getting a red 2005.
Also check out http://www.zoomzoomlive.com -- you may be able to really test drive (as in, pound on a track) the RX-8 before you buy (for free!). That's what I'm doing.
I see maybe one RX8 (regardless of color) a week on the road around here, but maybe I'm in a tough location for these things? (DC area, NoVa).
I HAVE to act before end of October due to screwy Jeep financing. Can't wait for the '06s. Boo. Also, I wanna sell mine before it reaches the death number of 80K miles.
Good to know the discounts apply on top of S-plan, there was some debate of that issue here yesterday and I never got an answer.
The point is essentially moot, as I can often negotiate the price at invoice or very close to it, and apply the rebate. So S-plan isn't much different: it's just a shortcut to the invoice price.
PS my dealer in Charleston, WV did have 3 04 reds left (new, untitled), rather nicely equipped. I'll go back thru some of my posts to get the info on them....
I wanted a yellow one and I finally got it. Go for the color you really want - it'll make you happier in the long run!!!!
Absolute loves :
1) Love the smooth rev of the rotor engine RX-8. I owned a 1987 RX-7 and I've badly missed it.
2) Love the balanced sports car feel of the RX-8 with it's not to stiff suspension.
3) Love the look of the RX-8 because of the classic front end, and fender flares.
4) Love the 4 adult size seats, 4 door layout, that's not flat down on the ground.
5) Like the fact that the RX-8 AT base package has a softer suspension, and 16" rims which are much more compatible Boston's messed up trolley track embedded streets.
Don't care abouts :P :
1) Don't care about gas mileage.
2) Don't care about competitive driving on or off the track. Please pass me is my motto.
3) Don't believe driving in the snow and slush is enabled by the Sports Package's Lim. slip dif., TC and DSC. Can't always guarantee this obviously, but from what I've researched, and from what folks here and other forums have said, a) Good winter tires and rims generally trump Lim. slip dif., TC and DSC b) TC does not help if you are stuck c) Anti-Lock brakes are still standard and effective d) Nothing helps on ice slick'n roads so always drive to the conditions.
4) Strongly dislike the Xenonites of the other so why should I drive these blinding and expensive to replace lights.
Unresolvable issues until 2006 :confuse: :
1) How does the 4 speed auto versus 6 speed auto compare if I'm just commuting on urban streets and cruising in coutry settings? I don't think I'll use the paddle or sport shifter options anyway!
2) Is there going to be a dark blue color like the X-Men version?
3) Will the current leather seats, which I think are cheapish, be upgraded and made a stand only option?
4) Will automatic air become an option?
Thanks for any help or comments.
Winning blue is available next year, as well as a kind of robins egg blue.
I think the Shinka has nicer leather than the "normal" leather seats. Otherwise, if you want good quality leather, take your car to a specialist upholsterer. In other words, buy the less expensive car without leather, and then spend half of the extra Mazda wants for leather on getting good quality leather from someone else. All the leather I have seen in cars is "leather seating areas" only. That is, the seat backs, front, and side bolsters are not leather, they are "genuine imitation leather". Only the centre panels are leather.
I haven't heard of any changes to the A/C. I have "automatic air" in my Pathfinder and I don't like it. I have less control of the thing re fan speed, whether air is on or not, etc. It works just fine, the problem is I'm not operating it, and I don't like that.
Oh well. wish me luck.
unresolvable issues:
1) 6-speed auto would be zippier, for two reasons: a) will probably be in a better gear to put you into more appropriate revs for the desired power output, b) higher power engine on the new 6-speed auto. for you, it seems that power doesn't matter, so really not much of a good reason to pick the 6-speed auto over the current 4-speed
2) there will be a darker blue called phantom blue. also galaxy gray, copper red. titanium gray and nordic green are dropped for 2006.
3) non-shinka RX8s keep the same type of leather. no packaging changes (so not a standalone option). 2006 shinka gets new leather/alcantra seating, which may be fancier/better?
4) no.
so basically, unless the phantom blue color appeals to you, get a 2005 AT.
as far as winter driving goes, winter tires are key, but DSC really does keep your tail in check. of course, if you don't push it, and drive conseratively, then you'll be just fine on winter tires. limited slip diff is key for getting off the line or up the hill, but it doesn't help for braking and turning. i have an open diff car with winter tires, and i have great highway stability, cornering and braking, but it's easier to get stuck because i get "one wheel drive" at slow speeds.
once you drive with xenons, you won't switch back. plus, proper factory xenons (instead of aftermarket lookalike hacks) like on the bmws and audis and other higher-end cars are not really more blinding and have an auto-leveling feature (just like rx8's). but hey, if you never drive with xenons, then you're still a happy man
so 2005 AT when 2006's come out (so you can get more rebates), a great set of winter tires (off tirerack) and you're set
Question about the seats just popped up. Do the power seats crank down lower than the manual seats? In other words, do the power seats compensate for the loss of head room taken by the moon roof. My dealer said the moon roof kills 2 inches of head room, which is very important to my 6' 2" frame.
As for the manual vs power seats cranking lower, I guess a visit to the dealership is definitely in order. Funny thing about dealers in the Northeastern. They absolutely, positively, WILL NOT talk openly via e-mail about any details.
Thanks for the information once again.
Drove the White RX-8 AT base model and yep you can definitely feel the softer suspension on the rural country roads. I could aim right for those typical New England frost heaves and road shoulder dips and the non-sports suspension handled them like a big BMW. Road noise was much less as well. When I drove the RX-8 AT sports-pkg. the sharp edge of every road imperfection could be felt and the road noise was that of metal wheels.
I've seen several folks talking about the poor air conditioning. Today was sunny and humid so I got to experience this air conditioning issue directly. While the car was parked and running, I got in the back seat with the air conditioning on max cool, max fan and recirculate. It got warm back there. Only when the car was moving, did cooling take place.
I wonder if the 2006 fixes the AC?
What is the date to look for anyway? Thanks.
Wow, that PDF was awesome! The VIN numbers nail the issue completely. NO DEALER within a 150 miles of Boston has an RX-8 with a VIN higher than JM1 FE17**50 158051 or built after July 7, 2005.
The White RX-8 AT no pkg. I am considering, was built before Dec 20th 2004. No wonder it's been advertised in the Boston Globe at S-Plan.
How long does it take an RX-8 to reach the US market from the factory in Japan? Should I wait for end of year shipments? Maybe I actually get a more color selection (only one base model WHITE left) AND the close out deals. Would they raise the price on the next shipment of 2005s to balance a 2006 price rise? There should be a law.... RIIIIIGHT!
It seems that first 2006s will be built in October, and the word is that they will be on the lots around November. Expect higher rebates on 2005's when 2006s are on the lots. The dealers get less money the longer their cars stay on the lot, and so it's always an incentive to clear out.
They would not raise prices on the next shipment of 2005s to balance a 2006 price rise, as that would impede clearing the 2005 cars out of the lot.
As far as having recall repairs done at the factory vs at the dealership, I honestly would not be worried and would not make that a major factor in choosing a car. If anything, cars that haven't been sold yet (that need the recall work) don't have any of the thermal damage that may occur w/o the recall work. So there's no fuel tank to replace, because the car hasn't been driven enough (and driven hard enough) to have it slightly warp from heat, etc.
White is not the most popular color, and the base no-pkg AT RX-8 is not the most popular package. So I can see how they haven't sold the White RX-8 base AT. What are the miles on that car? Maybe they used it as a demo.
A/C cycling on and off is the issue that has been addressed many times with various flashes. I don't think there's a low RPM cutoff, but it may not be spinning the A/C compressor fast enough at idle? Not really sure.
Considering I learned MT this summer, I was pleased with my own performance in the test drive.
Dealers are amused with me looking at these cars, say I'm the only early 20's blonde gal they've sold one to. Score. Are the rest of you RX8 drivers older men it seems?
From the PDF file described above, the recall work sticker should be something I can find hopefully. Once that's verified, should I ask for any additional money off for the apparent dealer demo status of the car.
On the color selection, I've been asking two different dealers about getting Black and Silver RX-AT no pkg., but they will not commit to even look for one until I've signed a deal and put money down. I have seen the Black color, but I've yet to see a Silver except for passing by on the road. Years ago I ordered something from a Ford dealer once before and effectively lost my money when the car came in months later in a color that looked much different on the car than in the paint samples. So my rule is now, unless I can see the actual car on the dealer lot, I don't do any deals. Shouldn't a dealer take the risks for stuff like this? Ugh!
The Pearl White is nice I think, but dirt shows easy. Black and Silver feel the best for my taste, but my wife likes Black and White. Holding out for a 2005 RX-AT Silver or Black seems hopeless. I just want to focus on what seems feasible in the next few weeks. If the White one goes away before next month then I'll focus on Black and Silver more significantly.
When I got my first new automatic transmission in over a decade it changed my life literally. Even the paddles in the RX-8 AT seem like to much work to me.
Glad you are enjoying the work. See ya from the slow lane.
Mazdausa.com is showing 2005 RX-8 AT at Quirk Mazda (JM1FE17N350157032 vin) with appearance package & spoiler. You've probably seen that, though, perhaps one too many options.
As far as the car being brought in from the unknown location, perhaps you can offer to put down a fully refundable deposit, so that they can bring the car in. I mean, if you have a car that you know you want, with the color that you like, then the only reason that you would reject it is if there is something wrong, such as too many miles on it. Maybe if you tell the dealer that if he calls up the other dealership, finds out the miles on the other car (and if the miles are good), then you can put down the deposit, and will buy the car if there's nothing wrong with it.
*shrugs* It's a difficult situation, I don't envy you. Best of luck!
I really want a stick. Traffic be darned [I drive to NYC about once a month too, so that will be extra tough: crazy drivers, must keep up heightened alertness, and sit in random traffic]
The RX-8 is a fine machine regardless of the tranny, though. 50/50 weight distribution, beautiful looks, quick and crisp steering response, direct-feeling brakes... trispec is going to be turning heads, or at least the surrounding heads in the slow lane
As for deposits, I can't help thinking it's a slippery slope to give them money up front. How does one leave a refundable deposit in a fully legally enforceable manner when possession is nine tenths of the law? The dealer will refund the deposit ONLY if you buy from them (catch 22ism). Taking my lawyor to the dealership might work, but then my rule against useless fluff looks hypocritical at best.
I understand your concern about the deposits, and those are good questions you're asking.
Ok, then there's not much left to suggest, other than you should try Ira Mada and 128 Mazda, maybe the salespeople there will behave a little differently.
And, trispec, sorry to have misnamed you as well!!
During the break-in period, RPM <4000 up to 1000 miles and RPM <6000 up to 2000 miles?
- I finally decided on a Red with Touring, and there is only ONE from NC to Maine, but luckily its about 50 miles from me. I shoped around and found an honest dealer that is great to work with (esp since I have the S-plan!) My dealer is trading and going to get it for me so I can do business with him and not have to go get it myself. Go for this method if you found a good dealer that lacks your perfect 8 in stock. My dealer also requires a 10% deposit for the trouble and his own loss of inventory to trade and go get mine. He said they don't cash the checks unless I bail out. This is just fair business to me. Won't run the credit card if you choose to do it that way either. Then when I see it and take posession, they can use that check as a down payment or tear it up and move on. Don't hesitate just because of a deposit, this just lets them know you're serious for their troubles.
- I'm told the break-in is about 700 miles. I was instructed to be sure and red-line once a week after that. :shades: Not sure about RPM limits before then, I think its in the QRG in the glove box.
- Premium gas is NOT needed, though many reviews reccomend it for the "sports cars". RX8 can do well with mid-grade (though I thought mid-grade was just a marketing scam!) or regular... then treat it to a clean out with premium about once a month.
- The Mazda friend e-mail wasn't as helpful as I hoped... but my dealer was able to find mine exactly. I found the MazdaUsa site to be tricky in its searching and not as thorough as I hoped with finding cars up to 150 miles out.
Keep trying for the one you want, but realize with this late in the model year ya may have to settle for one thing or pay slightly more to get the basics of what you want (if it has more options than you wanted, for example).
Can't WAIT to get mine this week, best of luck! I'll try and post pics next week or so... :shades:
For break-in period, I found these instructions from somewhere on the net:
Method #1 (from Mazda manual)
- First 600 miles: Drive at varying speeds road and engine speeds; avoid full throttle, rapid acceleration or kick-down of transmission. Do not use special “break-in” oils.
Method #2 (from Racing Beat)
- For the first 1000 miles (1609km) do not accelerate under full throttle, and do not exceed 4000 RPM.
- For miles 1000-2000 (3218km), expand the RPM upwards - but do not accelerate at full throttle.
- Over 2000 miles (3218km), full throttle and high RPM is acceptable.
Method #3 (Mazda manual + Japanese Rotary Mechanic’s Procedure)
- 0-600 miles (965.4km) Follow the Manual, but keep it under 4000 RPM
- 600-800 miles (1287.2km) Open it up a bit, vary accelerations and speed RPM < 5000
- 800-1000 miles Drive the car, enjoy it but still keep RPM < 6000
- 1000-1250 miles (2011km) Drive it as it's power curve intended it to be RPM < 7000
- 1250-1500 miles (2413.5km) Test the car frequently from RPM 6000-9000 in every gear
Do dealers know and do they share with potential customers which models, colors, and configurations have been ordered for stock? How does one ask for this information?
It's always seemed to me that dealers try to keep all of this information under wraps as a negotiations tactic. Not that that's a bad thing (Seinfeld episode going off in my head).
While the dealers do want to sell cars off the lot, ordering a car isn't such a bad deal either, as it allows them to immediately sell the car and take all of the holdback.
As far as I can tell, ordering a car is very much like a homesteader on the Great Plains doing a Sears category order back in the 1800's.
My dream process would be to log in to MazdaUSA, order from a live inventory somewhere in the shipping pipeline or build a custom RX-8 AT at the factory, give a credit card number for some specified percentage that's charged only when the car hits the dealers lot, receive tracking numbers to watch my custom ordered RX-8 go through it's shipping channels and receive highly specific build milestones direct from the factory via e-mail (engine was installed, seats were installed), complete all the legal documents (financing and licensing) online, then at the end choose which dealer takes delivery.
When you order a Mini that way, is the dealer completely sidestepped (dealer providing deliverance service only)? Does one negotiate the selling price with the dealer and then custom order the car or what?