Mazda RX-8

graphicguy · September 2003

Go to www.tirerack.com. They have a multitude of tires and snow tires/rims.

I live in the midwest. So, we don't get a ton a snow...usually only a couple of dustings. But, I have seen it where we will get 4"-5" some years.

I'll wait to see how ABS + traction/stability control works first.

I can't imagine it being any worse than the old RWD beaters with skinny tires with no ABS, no trac control that I've driven in the past.

sroc2004 · September 2003

I will of course wait for at least initial snow to see how the car is doing. The car has traction control, ABS, a limited slip differential and a 50-50 weight distribution. So the underlying mechanicals are sound. The tires, however, are performance tires, not rated M+S, I think. That is what worries me.

graphicguy · September 2003

I know that I've driven my RX8 in heavy rain, and the car still sticks like glue with the tires that are on the car with a very wet road.

Snow is a different story, though. The tires ARE preformance tires and don't lend themselves to snow driving. How much the trac control, 50-50 weight, ABS conpensate will be interesting.

himiler · September 2003

The OE RX-8 tires will not do well in temps below 40F.

After you consider the expense (what's your deductible?) and hassle involved with putting a new car into a guardrail, winter tires start to look inexpensive.

At the very least, buy some aggressive all-seasons and get 'em mounted on their own 17" rims (16's if they'll clear the brakes).

graphicguy · September 2003

Since the current tires/wheels are 18s, what's your take on 18" snows? I don't know how 16" or 17" will affect the rest of the car. I'm more concerned for winter tire storeage since I've already got my garage stuffed with two cars, lawn tractor, etc.

rotary_rx8 · September 2003

Anyone know how many speakers the rx-8 have ,everyone says 9 but in other website they say 6 speakers,so which one is it ,and where in the car are the speakers located?

graphicguy · September 2003

The base model comes with 6 speakers. The models with BOSE comes with 9, including a sub.

As much crap as BOSE has taken, I find the unit in the RX8 among the best stock stereos I've heard in a car. The only one better was the Mark Levinson one in some of the Lexi. But, that unit costs a ton more, too.

There must be different levels of BOSE units as stock stereos. The ones I've heard in GM cars aren't all that good. Even the BOSE in the 350Z sucks pretty badly.

The BOSE in the RX8 surpasses the Infinity I had in the 300M I used to own....and that one was a dandy.

kevin111 · September 2003

"Since the current tires/wheels are 18s, what's your take on 18" snows? "

- If you are worried about space for snow tires in your garage, downgrade to the 17" tires. According to Tirerack, there are 17" snow tires to be had, but no 18" that I know of. Also, if there was, due to the width of the tire, the grooves would probably be more shallow than the 17 or 16" rims, thus being worse off.

Your best option is to get the 18", and have 16" rims with snowtires available. This way you get the best of both worlds. That, or you can do what I did, and move to Southern Cal. :-)

qbrozen · September 2003

so, to address his other question, I assume 2 speakers are in the dash, 2 in the front doors, 2 in the rear doors, 2 on the rear decks, and the subwoofer is maybe in the trunk?

and aside from the subwoofer, which 2 are missing from the 6-speaker setup? rear doors?

kernick · September 2003

I agree with you that European performance cars are highly priced compared to the RX-8.
I was simply stating that on a psychological or street-bragging level (wanna race?) mode, Mazda's flagship performance car is comparable or beats Base models from other companies.

It just doesn't sit well with me that a company that wants the "Zoom, Zoom" image, says heres our best performance model, it looks nice and is quite sporty, but don't expect to race many of the other performance cars out there. Don't race the new Audi S4, forget the Evo and WRX STI, no Corvettes, Mach 1's, or Cobras. Forget the Volvo S series, most Porsches, etc, etc. When Subaru has more Zoom, Zoom than you do, and you're a sports car company, there's something wrong with the philosophy.

laurasdada · September 2003

What kind of mpg are you getting with your RX-8? I, too, am in the Boston area, commute about 40 miles/day (128, 1, back roads...). Am considering buying one next year.

habitat1 · September 2003

I'm not much of a fan of Mazda's "Zoom Zoom" marketing campaign, but with regards to performance, I think the RX8 is a respectable entre into the field.

I say this partly in reponse to the cars you listed and what I shopped against when I bought a Honda S2000 2 years ago. None of the cars you listed were, or would ever be, on my shopping list, with the possible exception of the (new) Audi S4.

I hate to sound discriminatory, but there is not one American made "muscle car" that meets my minimum threshold for quality of construction and fit and finish. Not to mention the performance characteristic I think more important than raw acceleration: precise steering and nimble handling. While I respect there may be no place to buy more horsepower for the dollar than your local GM or Ford dealer, I suspect that most people shopping an RX-8 or Honda S2000 (or, in my case, also a Boxster S, M3, etc.) have little or no interest in these American made alternatives. Or, for that matter, the low budget Japanese street racer alternatives from Subaru or Mitsubishi.

I'll show my age by admitting to having driven and lusted after the Ferrari 308 when it first arrived in the US more than a couple of decades ago. Same with the BMW M1. Interesting that the S2000 (and almost the RX8) can match those "exotic" cars in terms of performance. I wasn't the least bit tempted by a Buick GS or Chevy Nova back in the 70's, so it's doubtful that I or most of my colleagues would be tempted by that type of car now. Although, I must admit, AMG seems to think otherwise with their new 490hp, 500+ ft lb E55. Quality and muscle - that's an interesting dilemma!

graphicguy · September 2003

kevin....good info, thanks! If I run into any problems this winter, I'll definitely go to tirerack and try some 16s. Keep the 18s for spring/summer/fall driving.

gbrozen....there is a speaker in the the middle of the dash for "fill-in" to give a wider, cohesive soundstange for the front passengers. So, you have 5 speakers in the front, two in each door, one in the middle of the dash.

In the back, I'm not so sure because I haven't done any exploring back there. I would think there are two speakers back there, one in each door with the sub in the shelf area.

Kernic...truth is, you can get a Ford Lightning Pick-up truck and blow the doors off all those cars listed in a straight line if you really wanted to. Truly, if going in a straight line is your only guage for comparison's sake, then the RX8 isn't for you. Neither is the BMW 3 or 5 series (non M), nor the Boxter, nor the Audi TT/A6, nor the Mercedes non AMG cars, etc.

It sounds like your focus should be on the Cobra or the Corvette, or maybe even a Lightning/Harley F150.

laurasdada....I'm right at 1K miles on my RX8. While the mileage started out pretty dismal, my recent fillups put it right at what the sticker says it should be....that is 18 MPG around town and 24 MPG on the highway. That's where I'm at with mine. I'm getting about 20 MPG in a mix.

gee35coupe · September 2003

Four doors and cheeep speed. Supposedly handles too.

kernick · September 2003

my prior post and habitat1's reply. I realize that my issue is not with the RX-8 as at the price point it is very competitive and an excellent car.
My issue probably is that Mazda doesn't have a model above it in terms of perfromance. It's not so much a problem with what Mazda has, but what they don't have.

qbrozen · September 2003

I understand what you're saying but it seems to me this has been the case for a while now (since the japanese supercars left us in the mid-90s). If you think Mazda is bad, just think how Toyota fans feel when all they've got to look up to is a 180 hp econo-sporty-type car. And if it wasn't for the s2000, you could say the same for Honda.

I think we'll see more soon enough.

carliker · September 2003

Habitat - That zoom zoom campaign needs to go. Not to knock the other vehicles in Mazda's lineup, but I feel that the RX-8 deserves it's own slogan (and not to be grouped up with the other Mazdas). Maybe I feel this way since I made a point of changing the channel whenever I saw that kid in an ad whispering "zoom zoom". This is before I even thought about getting a Mazda. I didn't know if you were looking for another car at this point or just enjoying your S2000. I didn't know if you were looking at the RX-8. Except for the higher price, was there something about the M3 and Boxster S you didn't like?

Kernick - I see your point, but I agree with graphicguy concerning what you might really want in a car. The Mazda RX-8 gives a decent balance of speed mixed with a quality atmosphere (interior fit/finish and exterior style). Plus, the practicality of the back seat makes the car even better. With that known, the car is pretty much the "zoom zoom" that Mazda states and isn't intended to be anything else.

Habitat put it pretty well that some people just can not be persuaded to purchase an American muscle car due to the lack of "constructon quality". The American muscle cars are strickly for engine power and provide no sense of quality design inside. To me, the WRX STi and EVOs are not much better in that area either. With the RX-8, you're getting a pretty good taste of what those cars can do performance wise while also getting a healthy dose of convenience to go along with it. There's a reason why those other vehicles don't have an optional navigational system. You're just not going to get any better for less than $30,000-$35,000 grand.

Gee35coupe - The speed and handling for such a low price vehicle such as the Neon SR-T is promising, but it won't take an owner long to discover how they kept the price so low. The interior has a base rental car feel and the engine noise is horrendous. I commend manufactures like Mazda that can make a car that has respectable performance while not skimping on everything else that makes a car great.

carliker · September 2003

The Supra is on it's way! In what form, let me know when you find out. Will the cost be relatively affordable like the RX-8/350ZX or will it be a Viper/NSX car? Hopefully, it will be someplace in the middle.

gee35coupe · September 2003

And Lexus is supposed to be getting a supercar. Toyota already has a 12cyl for it's home market.

habitat1 · September 2003

My interest in the RX-8 is stricly plutonic - I would still like to drive one to see how it compares to the S2000. If I were 15-20 years younger, single and needed one car that had more versitility than the S2000, the RX-8 would probably be on my list. As it is, the S2000 is the third car in our household, so it's lack of versitility is not an issue.

With regard to the other cars, the Boxster S was, IMO, slightly above the S2000 in daily driving performance. The extra torque and more insulated cabin make it a bit more comfortable. However, it didn't "feel" as fun to drive compared with the S2000's 9,000 rpm redline and nimble handling and steering. Most importantly however, was my concern that it wouldn't be a good "fun" car if it had to go back to the dealer frequently. At the same time I was considering a new 2002 Boxster S and S2000, one of our neighbors was having the roof mechanism repaired for the THIRD time on their under 2 year old Boxster. I am pleased to say that in 22 months and 14,000 miles of ownership, the S2000 has been back to the dealership for a 7,500 mile service and two additional 30 minute oil changes. Period.

The M3 is a spectacular car. Unfortunately, it doesn't replace my sedan in practicality and the convertible would not replace the S2000 in visceral feel and handling. FWIW, I believe the coupe is a much tighter and better handling car than the heavier, less rigid M3 convertible. The M3 coupe would probably be my first choice if I thought I could get away with a two door car for business that didn't need to serve as a family hauling backup to our SUV.

graphicguy · September 2003

Fact is, there are so many choices for the enthusiast today that it's really quite refreshing.

We had the "dark years" of the '80s where the Japanese sports cars turned into the "boulevard cruisers" and good 'ole V8 muscle was dead. All the American marks were dreadful regarding quality and reliability during that time, too.

Today, we have Cobras and Corvettes, which give super car acceleration for a fraction of the price. Then there are the S2000, RX8, Z/G which are relative sports car bargains that challenge even the mighty Porsches.

And it's only going to get better. Will Mazda bring back the RX7? I think sales of the RX8 will determine that. They've put in an awful lot of time and money to bring back the rotary, so I don't see it going away again any time soon. Will Toyota join the ranks with a Supra? Sure hope so. Will Honda respond with an updated Prelude? Who knows? Fact is, I'd much prefer an S2000 over a Z4 any day (and pocket the money I saved).

It's just a great time to be a sports car lover.

As an aside, a friend of mine brought his brand new Mini over last night (an "S" version). While it's a nice piece, at the $26K and change price he paid, I'd much rather be in the Z/G or RX8 for a bit more money. He's also planning to let his dealer do the "John Cooper" upgrade for another $4K. Why oh why he would spend $30K for this car is a mystery to me (of course I didn't tell him that....I told him how much I really liked his car) I really expected more regarding build quality out of BMW.

Is it me or does it seem that BMW and Benz lowering the quality of their newer vehicles?

And finally, I agree that if you've ever sat in or driven the WRX, SR-X or EVO, you'll know immediately why they're priced the way they are.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2003

Japanese automakers have had a hard time selling a Japanese sports car once it hits about $35K.

The very expensive (for the time) Supra TT, RX-7 TT, 300ZX and the NSX all struggled with sales as their price crept up and up.

So I wouldn't expect a car too much "above" the RX8 or the S2000. The Japanese are shy about this price bracket for two seaters or 2+2 coupes.

The SC430 has done all right but it isn't a sports car and was marketed full on for luxury.

There's even talk of the new NSX being a hybrid (world's first hybrid supercar) but that seems pretty weird to me.

qbrozen · September 2003

many have said the same thing ... "for the time". So, instead, this time around we are getting those cars for the same $30K-$35K and, in today's market, its a reasonable purchase. The RX8 would have to be something more like $45K in today's market to be comparable to the pricey RX7 of 10 years ago. So they may be shy of this price range, but they shouldn't be because it doesn't represent what it did 10 years ago.

graphicguy · September 2003

While the RX7 TT was a looker and may have been considered a "pure sports car", it was a bear to live with on a day-to-day basis. Mr. Shiftright, I know that's why you liked it.

Supra and the 300Z became bloated cafe cruisers during that period (except for their expensive Turbo-charged counter parts)

But if you had to use the RX7TT as a daily driver, you better have a chiropractor on payroll. Plus, it nudged $40K at the time (8 years ago)....figure that's $45K in today's dollars.

There are lots of sporting machines up and down the price spectrum these days. On the low end, you've got the Mazdaspeed Protege, SR-T, WRX and the EVO.

Midrange you've got the RX8, 350Z/G35.

High end is full of the type...Corvette, Boxter S, M series, AMG series.

And there are many cars that I consider "tweeners"....that have some sporting pretensions, but aren't full bore sports cars.

Convertible sports cars...you've got the Miata, Z, Z4, S2000, Boxter, CLK, Corvette and to a lesser degree the MR.

Hell, you've got sporty SUVs for crying out loud like the Cayenne and the FX.

All of these encompass such high value compared to sporting cars of even less than a decade ago.

It's clear where the market is heading and performance is back with a vengeance, regardless of the configuration you prefer.

carliker · September 2003

Well put!

lngtonge18 · September 2003

I'm just curious if anyone has driven an automatic RX8. If so, how was the power? Obviously it won't have the torque of a V6 but I was wondering if it revved just as freely and felt fast enough. This car could possibly be on my next car list to replace my Lancer but I doubt I can convince the other half to get a stick. Besides, we aren't into racing and mostly drive in the city so looks and good acceleration mean more to us. I have owned a rotary before (84 RX7) so know their quirks (talk about bad gas mileage, that thing never got more than 21 mpg and it only had 100 hp or so!) and how reliable they are in normally aspirated form. I would appreciate any insight into how the automatic version drives.

habitat1 · September 2003

While I would agree with much that you have said, I might question the claim that BMW is lowering the quality of their vehicles.

The comparison that I am personally familiar with is the 1995 versions of the Nissan Maxima, BMW 3-series and BMW 5-series vs. the current versions of those cars. Some would claim that in spite of considerably more horsepower and a healthy price increase, the Maxima has taken a step backward in interior quality and has now gone to US production, so fit and finish are up for review. During the same time, the BMW 3 and 5 series have had more modest jumps in horsepower and price, but the most recent versions of the 330i and 530i are significant improvements in quality, fit and finish, etc. from their 1995 counterparts. Interestingly, the actual performance increase in a 2003 225 hp 330ci over it's 1995 189hp 328ci is greater, IMO than the performance jump in the current 265hp Maxima over my 1995 190 hp version.

From what I hear, the fit and finish of the RX8 is very good and, albeit not luxurious, I have no complaints about the high quality of materials and finish of the S2000. However, I would have an easier time justifying jumping up to a BMW 3 or 5 series today over the less expensive Japanese alternatives than I would have in 1995. I think their reliability, performance and quality have all improved and the price differential is not as great as it used to be. My opinion.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2003

Oh, an RX7 TT was the epitome of civilization compared to what I would normally call a sports car. If you can't drive a TT day to day you are a weenie

It's no worse that a Type R or a Miata with decent shocks.

I don't like to drive most modern sports cars beyond a few days, for this reason---with all their comforts you really lose a great deal of the visceral experience of driving. Modern sports cars are extremely numb compared to older ones. The difference is shocking to say the least.

Matter of taste I suppose, and only a driving fanatic would think this way.

graphicguy · September 2003

Mr. Shiftright....well, smack me silly and call me a "weenie" :-)

You sound like the purist. My guess is you love MGs, Triumphs, Fiats and those of that ilk. I owned both an MG (MGB-GT) and a Fiat Spyder. No comfort in either. Still fun machines, no doubt. Probably, as I get older, I want my sporting machines to coddle me a bit more. I'll give up some handling at the 10/10ths edge and add some weight if I can have my comfy seats with butt warmers, A/C, stereo, etc. But, I also get to quench my pure sports car lust with a first gen Mini that I jointly own with a couple of like minded friends that we tinker with and autox. One of those like-minded friends has owned nothing but Saabs over the last 15 years...a love affair that I just don't understand.

habitat....I should have been clearer regading BMWs. What I don't get is their fascination with "high tech" 'I-Drive' that they insist on putting in their new offerings. Why, oh why, do they want to put something like that in a car when it's so universally despised? Truth is, when I was still thinking of a sports sedan as my next car (as opposed to the RX8), the '03 530i seemed to be just about the perfect sports sedan (only a 540i or M series would have been better). The '04s will come to market with the dreaded I-Drive and turned me off. Maybe I'm being too harsh on BMW, but I-Drive turns me off that much.

An Auto RX8....well, while not my cup of tea and since I've never driven one, I would expect you would get all the visceral feel of the RENESIS, just missing the sweet shifter/clutch and a bit of straight line performance with an automatic. You'll probably get 9/10ths of the handling capabilities, though. On other dedicated RX boards, those that have the automatic seem to be very pleased with them. If it's important to you, straight line acceleration has been measured in the high 8 sec, mid 9 sec 0-60 with an auto equipped version.

habitat1 · September 2003

I was responding to your previous post:

"Is it me or does it seem that BMW and Benz lowering the quality of their newer vehicles?"

My answer regarding BMW was that I don't think so. What does I-drive have to do with quality?

P.S. For what it's worth, one of the larger DC area Mazda dealers is advertising "over 100" unsold RX-8's in stock and on order. They quoted a friend $1,500 off MSRP for an October delivery to coincide with her current lease expiration, but said they could do better if she took one from stock now. If this abundant supply is prevalent in other areas, I wonder how many early buyers will indeed turn their cars in to have the opportunity to negotiate a better deal. Does anything in the "buy back" language prevent you from simply turning around and buying a new one at a bigger discount?

carliker · September 2003

I was thinking the same thing...that's partly why I'm having them buy mine back. No way would I keep this for the MSRP I paid.

qbrozen · September 2003

So if you are turning around and buying another one, you'll have to let us know what you end up paying. I'd like to hear if you save enough to offset the $500 plus maintenance. Anyone figured out how much that maintenance is worth, by the way?

gee35coupe · September 2003

Like I said before, a car like this should not have available inventory this soon. Check the "passion" for the G35 when introduced as a comparison. I don't get the same feeling here.

graphicguy · September 2003

habitat...I-Drive certainly has nothing to do with the quality of BMWs. As the previous owner of two 3 series, I was disappointed with the amount of problems I had with mine after the warranty period. Plus, the maintenance costs of those cars were pretty outrageous. That said, I do like BMWs and find them some of the best driving cars currently in production (outside of the RX8, of course).

Maybe east and west coast dealers are getting most of the stock. They just aren't readily available around all the places in between the coasts. My dealer is still fulfilling pre-orders. The only way to get one from stock is to find one where the potential buyer could not get financed or, for some reason, backed out of the deal. But those are rare occurences. If you're looking at the stock status per the Mazda web site, then it's pretty common knowledge that stock levels are only updated about once per month, so that's not a real world indication of the amount of units available. Plus, dealers are claiming to have units on the ground that are just on order, not ones that you can walk in off the street and buy.

They are the "hottest" cars currently being offered by any brand or dealer on the road around here (Ohio).

I can go to any Infiniti or Nissan dealer and have my choice of color and options from their G/Z stock. RX8s are rare around here. I've had mine for a month and a half and I've still not seen another one on the road. Since the dealers are selling everyone of them they can get their hands on, they've got to be around here somewhere.

If I had taken the buyback option (no way I was going to do that....I like this car way too much), then there was nothing in THE LETTER that would keep me from turning right around and buying another one. But, there's no reason for me to do that since I would be paying the same amount for another one and not getting the $500 and free maintenance. I think the offer from Mazda is a strong one. I loved the car before I knew of any HP discrepancy and nothing about the car has changed outside of some numbers on the MSRP. There are some pretty strong rumors running around that after the Oct 1 deadline to let Mazda know what we are doing, Mazda is going to make another strong offer to the people who kept their cars. Regional Mazda rep won't tell me what that offer is, though...believe me, I tried hard to "goad" him into telling me, too.

Make no mistake, those that own the RX8 and are keeping them are very passoinate about our rides. This board isn't nearly as indicative of the way people feel about the car as the other dedicated RX8 boards.

gee35coupe · September 2003

These are sitting out front on the lawn.

Of course there may be G/Z's sitting around now. But for over three months after intro there were none to be found. I know because I was looking.

graphicguy · September 2003

Maybe, like in my locale, they just didn't have much in the way of units for the G35 where you were when you were looking for one. I don't imagine they'll have much in the way of stock around here for RX8s until November...that means it'll take about the same 3 months for supply to catch up to demand like it did for your car.

carliker · September 2003

Graphic Guy - Of course there is a rumor from Mazda, they don't want you to return your RX-8 if they can help it. Why else would they wait until after the deadline? They could tell current owners before the deadline. The fact we bought an RX-8 in the first place shows that we were loyal enough to buy the car. Plus, anything big would cost Mazda more money which they wouldn't have to spend anyway since you'd be keeping the car. I just can't see them giving anymore rebates...since it wouldn't be necessary. Maybe they'd give you some discounts on accessories or more free coffee cups. Or perhaps, a discount on the upcoming RX-7. Anyway, I believe I might have seen one parked in passing, but other than my own RX-8, I haven't seen any others on the road. I'm in the midwest too (Indianapolis). It was the perfect amount of time to have the car. The first two months the car was out!

Gee35coupe - I'd have to agree with you on that. There were only suppose to be 12,000K RX-8s made this year, but why does it seem these dealerships have so many? I would think they would want to downplay the amount they had (at least for the first year) When I took a look at the G35 Coupe back in March of this year, it was already out for six months and I still couldn't get much of a deal on them. There were only a few on the lot, but none with the options I wanted. Even more recently (in early July), they only had automatic transmission vehicles. This is due, of course, to limited amount of dealers and only 14,000K of them made in the U.S. That is why I thought the RX-8s would be somewhat exclusive for the first year at least.

graphicguy · September 2003

While I'm hoping that after the Oct 1 date Mazda comes back to us early adopters and offers something like a "no-charge" reflash of the ECU, They haven't officially stated that they would give us anything other than what they've already offered.

I should have come to Indy when I was looking. That's only a couple of hours from me, but the thought never crossed my mind.

I know when I was looking at cars, the only Infiniti dealer in my area had a half dozen G35 coupes. Sales Manager there said the dealership didn't order many because the sedan was much more popular. That probably explains why G couldn't find many when he was looking. Coupes, in general, aren't as popular as sedans.

carliker · September 2003

I'm not turning around to buy another one. I've discovered the car is just not right for me after test driving it for two months. I was only agreeing with habitat that one could do that and that is why I'm sure that my decision to give the car back is right for that reason as well. Even if I was to get a new one in a couple months, I could get more than $500.00 off since it's been shown in this chat that people have done that already. The Mazda maintenance is only good for twice a year. They state 7500 miles and dealerships state 3500. Which do you think they are going to give for free? Besides, rotation of tires and oil change only costs $40-$50. They aren't giving you that much!

carliker · September 2003

I wish Mazda would do the "ECU" change, but wouldn't they have done that in a recall process or stated something earlier that this was a possibility? It would have made them look a lot better and keep some "buyback owners" satisfied enough to keep the car. Now if they did something like that, not only would they lose the buyback owners for this car, maybe for good! I know I wouldn't be happy about such a ploy!

habitat1 · September 2003

Assuming the figure of 12,000 RX-8's this year is accurate, that is a TON of cars compared to, say, the S2000 was limited to roughly 5,000-6,000 units per model year in the US.

Koons Mazda in DC has more UNSOLD RX-8's on its lot as we speak (30-35 estimate), than the total number of S2000's my Honda dealership (Sheehy)has received and sold in the past two years (1-2 per month).

Albeit the RX-8 is a more "practical" car than the S2000, I'm not sure it has any more market potential. The S2000 competes in mostly a field of more expensive Eurpoean alternatives and stands up exceedingly well. I would have had to jump to the $60k Boxster S to get comparable or better performance. And then I would have had to hold my breath on repairs and maintenance, compared to Honda. So even though the total "roadster" market segment is much smaller than the "coupe" market segment, the S2000 is a strong player in a relatively limited field.

The RX-8 posseses a very intersting set of attributes. But its not really a sports car. Or the roadster that makes for a good third car for 40 somethings like me. I'm sure it's just what the doctor ordered for those who have selected it and are enjoying it. And if I were 15-20 years younger and single, it would be high on my shopping list for my one and only car. I just don't think, with all the new models out there, 12,000 units in the first year is going to come easy.

That is why I suspect increasing discounts from MSRP will become more common, especially in markets like DC where it appears Mazda has flooded the dealers with inventory. I can't imagine Koons is looking forward to heading into the fall and winter with a few dozen RX8's on their ding and dent lot and more coming. By comparison, Sheehy Honda claims to never have had an unsold S2000 on their surface lot. Every one that was not sold ahead of delivery was prominantly displayed in their indoor showroom.

So if anyone has a doughnut they want to lose, I'll bet a dollar that - at least in my area - you would be able to get $2,000 under MSRP or better on an RX8 by Thanksgiving. That still gives the dealer more profit than your average Honda dealer gets on every car except the S2000.

P.S. I thought the same thing when I heard of Nissan's ambitious sales target for the 350Z. And, sure enough, when I took my Maxima in to the dealer for service last week, I was told $1,500 over invoice would get me the keys to any 350Z on their lot or on the next shipment.

graphicguy · September 2003

From what my dealer's telling me, they will follow the "severe" schedule for free maintenance. They also said that Mazda has given them the green light to replace even wear items at no charge. I got the impression that they want those that kept their cars to be "coddled" at Mazda's expense.

I've had the luxury of talking to the Mazda Regional Rep on 4 seperate occasions as my dealer always told me when he was visiting. He confirmed all of this.

I'm clearly living in the wrong part of the country as far as pricing. I'm not seeing any discounts at all around here. I'm not seeing any stock, either. Still, with the $500 + free maintenance, I figure I'm getting a hell of a deal for a car I love. I loved it when the HP figures were originally published and nothing has changed with the car that I bought.

Re-flashing the ECU is something that clearly caught Mazda by surprise to get emissions in line. I am speculating, but I have to believe that there is a "fix" somewhere in the ECU that they are eventually going to get sorted out. My hope is that once they do get if figured out, they'll offer it to us. That's merely speculation, though.

I agree with Mr. Shiftright. People get way too caught up with the HP numbers on their car. HP numbers can very easily be manipulated to state whatever you want them to state. I've seen the time slips that Mazda provided and they are right in line with what I expected when I originally bought the car. I knew that I was never going to do a hi rev clutch dump to get the trade rags performance figures. So I knew, right off the bat I was going to be in the low 6 sec range for 0-60 and the mid 14 sec range in the 1/4 using reasonable acceleration techniques. My own unscientific tests support those numbers.

All that said, Mazda indeed made you the buyback offer and if that's what you want to do, you are totally within your right to do so.

I considered the buyback option. Re-drove all the other cars on my original "potential purchase" list and still came to the conclusion that I did originally. I really like the RX8 better than anything else I drove.

I never thought about sending mine back to see if I could get a better deal on a new one. After giving that some thought, I don't think it would make more than a $500 swing, if it were even possible to buy one around here for $1,000 off MSRP. The money and free maintenance more than make up for any potential gain I would get from buying one under MSRP. Plus, I like the idea of Mazda coddling me a bit more for keeping my car.

mazdafun · September 2003

This weekend in the local paper. Before, I only saw ads for the RX-8 placed by dealers. This is the first time I've seen a non-dealer-specific ad highlighting the RX-8. I guess Mazda NA is starting to feel there's enough inventory in the pipeline to start advertising it.

the_big_h · September 2003

I want to go see if I can pick one up for a good price.

dinu01 · September 2003

http://www.mazdamotorshows.com

Dinu

edster444 · September 2003

Okay, knock me for being the bad one here, but I decided to turn in my RX-8. I admit I love the car, but then I realize other issues like gas. Being a long distance driver this seriously costs more for me.

If you don't have far distances to travel, and like to be the only one driving it in your area, this car is the one. It's a FUN car to drive.

SHOW ME THE MONEY?? Okay so letter is sent, and rep's are working on the case. But where is the money??? I mean I sent this letter back in the beginning of the month. HAS ANYONE GOTTEN PAID?

I heard their are deductions and they are trying to use ploy's to cause problems in getting a full credit back.. Is this true? Are they lying about the full repurchase?

And lastly, who pay's the interest on the money borrowed?

P.S. - To Ingtonge18, I have the fully loaded auto, and it is excellent to drive and ALOT of control in the manual 4. You pass virtually everyone off the line!

superbone · September 2003

on the money borrowed.

I too am returning my 8 for the same reasons. 17.1 MPG for 100 miles a day just isn't cutting it.

qbrozen · September 2003

what are you folks buying to replace your RX8?

I haven't actually seen the letter and I'm curious as to the wording. I heard a report on Motorweek a couple of weeks ago where they said "Mazda has offered to negotiate buying back the cars." That makes it sound like its not so cut and dry. So, out of curiosity, I'd like to hear how its actually worded in the letter. Anyone have one handy?

graphicguy · September 2003

Regrading THE LETTER...there is no negotiation. Mazda reps ask why you want to return the car. They send you the form. You fill it out with your VIN #. Sign the buyback offer and they take the car back.

I quizzed Mazda reps what they paid for in the "buy back" offer. They pay for loan fees, tag fees, taxes, any amounts you paid over MSRP, any additions to the car for Mazda approved accessories. In short, they totally "unwind" the deal you made at your dealership.

What they won't pay for are any aftermarket accessories that aren't Mazda approved (like window tint, after market wheels, non-Mazda stereo mods, etc.). They will deduct for any damage done to the car. There are no mileage restrictions on the buyback.

No money will be coming your way until after they get everything sorted out after Oct 1. On the other hand, you still have use of the car until then, also.

graphicguy · September 2003

I had to "dig out" my letter. I won't quote the whole letter, just the "offer" part:

"Acceleration testing of production cars has shown similar performance to pre-production cars, which were tested by independent enthusiast magazines, returning 0-60 times in the low six-second range and mid 14-second quarter-mile times.

While 4% is a very small difference in peak output, it is nevertheless not the number we originally published. Therefore, to ensure your complete satisfaction with Mazda and the RX-8, we're offering you two options:

--Free scheduled maintenance for the balance of the factory warranty (48 months/50,000 miles) AND a $500 same-as-cash debit card, redeemable at any retailer who accepts debit cards

OR

--The repurchase of your 2004 Mazda RX-8 (excluding charges for physical damage or unreasonable wear and tear)

You have until October 1, 2003, to respond, on the attached form, with your decision."

Mazda RX-8

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles