Mazda RX-8

red_rx8 · September 2003

I was glad to find a forum to discuss the RX8, but I wasn't expecting the doubts and nit picking that goes on. Here is my story and then the questions: A week ago today I go in for an oil change on my Protege and instead of sitting in the customer's lounge, I decided to go for a road test in the dealer's demo. A few months ago I tried to buy a 350Z but wasn't willing to pay sticker. When I went for the drive I knew nothing about the buy backs, the horsepower issues, etc. I drove the demo and liked it. I then drove a new car with markups for all these add-ons that I don't need. Didn't like the airconditioning or transmission on that car. Drove another one with no add-ons, and fell in love with the way it drove. This car is fun! I bought it because I liked the way it drove. I did get $1,600 off and to me since people are reading these posts from all around America I thought Indianapolis was better than mentioning Westfield, Indiana. I can drive a few hundred miles for a good discount! I never did think ahead that my discount was going to be chewed up buying snow tires and wheels.
Now for my questions:
1) The double sided tape doesn't hold the Mazda RX-8 plate in the bottom of the door sill. Should I use epoxy or try putting another piece of double sided tape on top of the tape already there?
2) I have to drive the car year round, so where would you go to purchase snow tires and winter wheels? I've seen tirerack.com, but any other suggestions? I've seen talk of 17 inch wheels working on the car with 18 inchers.
3) How does the tire pressure monitoring system work? i.e., if you change to steel wheels for the winter, does the system still work?

Thanks for the good info on the gas cap. I thought I was nuts because I couldn't find a place to hang the filler cap.

habitat1 · September 2003

graphicguy: the revised maintenance costs you posted seem more in line with what I would have expected $941 for 50k miles. That includes $200 in tire rotation that I didn't anticipate. The S2000 uses staggered, unidirectional wheels and tires that cannot be rotated. I'm surprised to learn that the Mazda RX8 uses the same size front and rear wheels and tires. Even the perfomance oriented sedans I've considered (e.g. 330i, 530i) have staggered front and rear tire sizes with their "sport" packages.

Mazdafun: I've been a big critic of Nissan's horsepower inflation, as well as Acuras. Not because I care about the rating, but because the performance doesn't add up. The 350Z, based upon it's "ratings" should be able to come close to my old 1997 Supra TT in performance and certainly surpass my current S2000 or the former 240hp E36 M3. In reality, it's slightly to significantly behind all three (not within eyesight of the similarly heavy Supra). And I too question the whether the identical engine that produces 240 hp in the Altima can be "tweaked" with exhaust system changes to produce 287 hp in the 350Z. Almost every model that uses the 3.5 liter Nissan workhorse engine has a different horspower rating, coincinding, just by chance, with their "level" in the Infiniti/Nissan hierarchy. Altima - 240. G35 - 260. G35 coupe - 280. 350Z - 287. Come on, do us customers look that gullible?

carliker · September 2003

Graphic Guy - Even though 9 HP isn't much, we can't really say what we missed (or didn't miss) since we never drove a pre-production vehicle that was actually rated at 247 or whatever went with it. You enjoy the car the you got so it doesn't really matter, but who knows if there is any difference? I can't say what would have happened if Mazda didn't step up to the plate, but figuring this is the flagship vehicle and the one that is suppose to give Mazda a comeback, do you think it was worth taking the chance of doing nothing? I appreciate what Mazda did but it was also in their best interest to do so. If Nissan continues overstating, there will come a time that it bites them in the butt.

"We've already heard from an expert that resale, more than likely won't be affected."

I wouldn't disagree that the vehicle's resale value would diminish due to this HP error. However, I just feel that it will follow along the lines of other Mazdas and have a lower resale value than a Honda or Toyota would. So, I'm not saying it would have a poor one, just not a great one.

Habitat1 - Why in the world did you give up your Supra TT? It's one of the few modern cars '95 and up...that hasn't really deappreciated. My father has one with less than 27K on it. I saw them (meaning a few) sell on Ebay with a few thousand miles more on it for around $34K. Quite amazing for a car that isn't more than six years old. By the way, those cars on Ebay weren't fixed up...they were stocked '97 Supra TTs.

carliker · September 2003

I meant to say I'd agree that the HP error wouldn't diminish the RX-8's resale value.

qbrozen · September 2003

as far as that sill plate, don't use double-sided tape on top of the existing stuff. Either clean it all off and use new tape, or (probably my preference here) use the epoxy that is designed to hold emblems on the car (you can find it at any auto store).

However, I'd probably remove the tape in either case.

habitat1 · September 2003

I bought a 1997 Supra TT 6-speed in late 1996 after a friend who had negotiated a very good deal got a job opportunity in Europe before the car arrived. I stepped in, bought the car, and when he returned 7 months later, somewhat reluctantly sold it back to him for essentially the same price.

The Supra TT was an impressive car in terms of raw performance. However, I have to admit that I enjoy the S2000 as a third car more. What the Supra had over the S2000 in terms of acceleration, the S2000 has over the Supra in terms of nimble handling (the Supra handling limits were as good or higher, but it was a 3,500 lb car that felt like it). The "sport roof" of the TT was not as open or as convenient as the 6 second up, 6-second down power top of the S2000. And I got caught once in a quick thunderstorm with my golf clubs in the back of the TT and the roof panels at home. Lastly, the Supra TT was not a car I could comfortably drive to a professional business function if I didn't want to get some odd looks, especially with it's airplane wing attachment in the back. I even elect to leave the S2000 at home on occassion, but the S2000 is a lot less susceptable to the "boy racer" connotations that the Surpa TT invoked.

I'd be curious as to the demographics of the RX8 buyers. I suspect that perhaps fewer professional 40 somethings would buy it, since it does have a bit more radical look than the 330ci or G35c (or even the S2000). But it really does look like the perfect car for someone in their 20's or 30's that doesn't want to be caught dead in a Honda Acccord coupe. And it's certainly infinitly less "boy racer" than the WRX or EVO.

graphicguy · September 2003

red8...that deal sounds good. Only questions I have....you say that the original car you drove had additions to it. Do you mean options like the GT Package, or do you mean additional dealer add-ons like door edge guards, "SUPERSHINE", etc? Did you get $1,600 off the Mazda MSRP sticker or was it subtracted from the "additional sticker" that dealers add? IS yours a base model? Were there any additions when you financed your car like $xxx added for marketing, GAP insurance, or any fees related to your loan?

Wish I could remember the article, but one of the big trade rags questioned whether there really was a difference in the Nissan 3.5 V6 as it's used in its many applications? Their contention was it didn't seem like there was any difference in the engine that they tested regardless of the vehicle it was used in. Don't get me wrong, it's a great engine, but the same article pointed out that Nissan was saving itself a ton of money by only having one version of the engine and changing only weight of the vehicles, the exhaust systems and gear ratios in the vehicles it's used in. They went on to say that the different HP ratings of the 3.5 was more marketing hype than anything else. A ~50 HP swing from one application of the 3.5 compared to another application (Altima vs 350Z) is a tough number to swallow.

While, I like the idea of free maintenance on my car, that's not why I'm keeping it. I'm keeping it because I love the car. Having free maintenance and $500 is just icing on the cake. Depending on dealer, I'm sure that the total amount saved would vary. $1,000 in free maintnenace looks to be a fair number, though.

I think you have to divorce the RX from the rest of Mazda's lineup. As rroyce put it, RXs are strong on the resale market and get "all the money"...regardless of the model. It's pretty telling since he's seen RX8s at the auction that are commanding at or near MSRP. I think that bodes well for the RX8 regarding resale. Who knows what it will be worth 2-3 years down the line? I like what I'm hearing so far, though.

Accords traditionally are strong on the used market. The latest model doesn't seem to be as well received as the previous one, though. Does that mean they will have lower resale value? Again, no one knows. If I had a crystal ball to predict these things, I'd quit my job. Only thing I can do is to ask the people who are "in the business" and are experts.

gee35coupe · September 2003

So I don't know where the "not as well recieved" is coming from. Some people complained about the 1998 changover also. They had no problem selling them. In fact the Accord has been the best selling car to individual people for the past decade or so. Honda sells very few cars to fleets like some other makes.

graphicguy · September 2003

Not saying that the new gen accord hasn't been well received. I'm just commenting on their strength with the current generation on the used market. Nothing definitive, but the current gen accords that are on the used markets aren't holding their value as well as the previous generations.

Could be lots of reasons for that....Camry has bested the Accord in the sales charts, current gen accord is not as desireable as a used car as its previous iteration.......

bctnj · September 2003

http://media.mazda.ch/dossiers/Wankel/Photo%20Wankel%20E.htm

http://media.mazda.ch/dossiers/Wankel/Wankel%20E.pdf

http://media.mazda.ch/dossiers/RX-8/Photo-RX8-E.htm

http://www.mme-press.com/doc/mazda_rx-8_presskit_english.pdf

carliker · September 2003

How many auctions does rroyce10 oversee? Are you basing the resale value of the current generation Accord on just one auction house? From everything I observed from ebay auctions/newspaper classifieds/trade magazines, the new Accord is doing just as well as it ever has on the used market. Perhaps there are very few on the used market, and those that are, may have been bought at a lower price due to high mileage or the fact dealerships are now selling them certified. Obviously, customers are going to be paying higher for the used dealership certified ones than the ones found at a hit or miss auction house.

graphicguy · September 2003

I can't really answer your question about rroyce's activities. I know he goes from one coast the the other to attend auctions. I also know the amount of people who congratulate him about being dead on his assessments for auctioned cars, trade-in values and retail values of cars....that includes myself. He takes time out of his busy day to answer untold amounts of questions like "what's this sled worth?". He hit my sale prices right in the bulls-eye regarding what a dealer would offer for my in trade. So, I consider him the best I've run across in regards to vehicle worth.

My experience with Accord resale comes from the Regional Manager of the Acura/Honda super dealer in my area. He lives close to me and is a season ticket holder (like me) of the local sports teams, so we sometimes ride together when attending. He's always trying to get me into his stores. He's the one that said the used market for current gen Accords was soft. Certainly not scientific and certainly only one person's opinion in one part of the country. Still, I consider him an expert too, given his experience in the field of Honda products. Never thought about the trend for dealers to offer "certified" vehicles.

gee35coupe · September 2003

Would have to be "soft" when the new ones are the very same. It's not like they are rare or very expensive to start out with.

Carmax sure still has faith. Their used 03's are still pretty expensive.

Not to offend Royce but he said we would get 15500 in trade for our 03 black EX-L 5-speed coupe with 16,000 miles. We got 17100 first offer. And paid 22,800 for a new 04 EX-L sedan auto. I like that deal.

pmarini · September 2003

I contacted my dealer (128 Mazda, Wakefield Ma) to get details on the service they would be performng for free, as started under one of Mazda's options. I also inquired about free replacement tires, as one poster stated they had neg. with their dealer as added incentive.

They stated this was a Mazda corporate issue and all me dealings should be with the Mazda 800 number.

This seems contrary to what others are experiencing with their dealers.

Suggestions?

pmarini · September 2003

for the buyback.

Did you have a trade in? How did they compensate for that?

How about payments to a different bank for car loan?

Tx

graphicguy · September 2003

I suggest you find another dealer.

If your dealer doesn't want to "handle" this, then they aren't a very good dealer, IMHO! If you stay with your current dealer, tell them that, in your part of the country and the way you drive, you qualify for the "severe" schedule for maintenance. Mazda NA sure didn't stipulate that the free maintenance wasn't for "severe" schedule drivers.

I have a good relationship with my dealer. They said to bring my car to them for an service, maintenance, warranty issues and they'd be the interface between me and Mazda.

I've also been able to speak with the Mazda Regional Rep, so that helps in my understanding of what Mazda and my dealer will do for the free maintenance.

Regarding your trade-in....that's a seperate deal. If they still have the car, they may offer it back to you....but, I'm not sure. Personally, I wouldn't want my trade back after two months since you have no idea of who has driven your car, how they drove it, or what they did to it during that time.

If they don't have it any longer, then just look at it as a seperate deal....the dealer gave you $xx,xxxx to buy your old car. With your used car now sold to the dealer, you then made a deal for $xx,xxx to buy the RX8...two different transactions.

Gee....I stick by my total faith in rroyce10. I've seen too many people (including myself) that he was able to help, with dead on accuracy on a trade, retail, auction value for used cars. He may be off here and there, but 95% of the time he's right on the money.

BTW...since the guy in Indiana who said he got $1,600 off MSRP hasn't responded, I'll assume that his deal wasn't as simple as $1,600 off MSRP. I'll assume he either had a trade that they ended up low balling him on to make up the difference, or that the deal was $1,600 off some inflated sticker, or there was some "back end" money that they made a profit on....maybe all of the above.

carliker · September 2003

I have a feeling that you were right about the $1600.00 discount at the Indiana dealership. After thinking about it, that dealership was charging $1000.00 over MSRP to begin with back during the pre-order stage. I know this since they quoted me that amount and their sales manager was taking full advantage of the hype. I'd never buy a car from that dealership. Essentially, they could have just given $600.00 off of a demo model, but due to the inflated price on the sticker, it could have appeared as a $1600.00 amount. Maybe red_rx8 will respond to this.

audia8q · September 2003

We have a mazda dealer in our region that is advertising the RX-8 at a substantial discount....but when you get to the dealership they require the buyer to purchase a non-mazda extended warranty for a couple thousand more then it's worth. clever, but sleazy.

graphicguy · September 2003

carliker....just like everyone else, I would have embraced some huge discount on my RX8. After all the FUD is sifted through, you find that the great deal isn't as great upon first blush. I've been buying cars for 25 years and have seen more ways to make money on a "car deal" than I care to admit. I've gone from being naive, to being a grinder to realizing that any car deal has to be a "win-win" proposition to both the buyer and seller for any deal to get done. Now, I make up my mind what car I want. I go to two or three different dealers to get their offer and settle on the one that I feel the most comfortable with and will be fair with me. I always tell the dealer I'm a buyer and do a little research to find out what others have paid. That's why Edmunds is helpful as well as carsdirect. There are some "jerk" dealers out there who will try to "hide" some of the $$$$ (I won't deal with them), but overall, most dealers are pretty up-front. Knowing what's in demand and what's not, also helps. Once the dealer knows you're a buyer, it's pretty easy to get to the price they're willing to sell at. An Accord, Taurus, Camry, for example, are going for invoice or a couple hundred over invoice, and that's before any rebates. No way you're getting invoice deals on a 350Z (although I could have bought one for $1K off MSRP) or an RX8. That said, I can get pretty near invoice on an Infiniti FX or a G35 sedan. It's all supply and demand.

audia8Q....I'm sure you see deals that are made, depending on what your customers want, that aren't as simple as "I got $x,xxx off". If the customer thinks his/her trade is worth more than it really is, then the $ are just added to the purchase price of the new car. Conversely, if the price of the new car is more than the potential buyer is willing to spend, then the trade is figured at a lower figure. As you point out, there are other ways to add $$ to the deal, too....like your example of "extended 3rd party warranty". I've actually seen people pay $750 for tag transfers.

On the other hand, few people will admit, like carliker and myself, that we paid MSRP. I know that's what the car is going for and was willing to pay it because even at MSRP, I think the car is a good value.

With all the big rebates that the big 3 are throwing out there, it's sometimes hard to think that a car will sell for MSRP. Just a quick glance at carsdirect.com shows there are plenty of them out there...all of them, like the RX8, are in high demand. That's why I've been skeptical of anyone saying they got $x,xxx dollars off an RX8 and that there's this huge stockpile of them in the market. After you dig a little deeper into the claims, I found them to be little more than "smoke and mirrors".

As an aside, I see that as more and more of the RX8s get some miles on them that MPG and HP is creeping up.

pmarini · September 2003

IRA Mazda, Danvers Ma is offering the 6 speed for 26 and change (do not have add in front of me). 20 in lot (IRA is a huge combined dealership).

It was for the 6 speed.

I actually spent a few hours there, and then bought my rx8 elsewhere.

I had no longer signed the deal, then IRA called me up offering another $500 for my trade in. Told them I was done (even tho they were now the net lowest cost). Called me back 1/2 later and went up another $500. But, I was done.

They also had a free $100K on power train etc.

I now wish I had went with them, considering the confusion my dealer has on the HP issue.

Call IRA Mazda and see if the deal is real.

qbrozen · September 2003

There is also someone else here on edmunds who claimed they got offers from 4 dealers with a substantial discount. Audia8q knows what i'm talking about. Anyway, i've asked for the names of those dealers and received no answer. Always seems to be the way, doesn't it?

carliker · September 2003

Like graphic guy said, it seems that all these ads are just smoke and mirrors to get you to the dealership. At the time I bought my RX-8, paying MSRP was actually getting a good deal. Little did I know that the dealership was planning to stick on a Rust Protection Plan for $600.00 when I actually came in to buy it. I was able to get it without it once I threatened to just get up and leave, but they were putting "the plan" on all the future ones they were getting. I can easily see them discounting the cars now for $600.00, when in turn, they aren't really discounting the car at all. The extended warranty is another ploy. One has to ask a dealership these questions before they even waste time heading out to their lot.

pmarini - It's too bad that the IRA dealership couldn't have been straight with you right away and given you the money off. It's funny that the offers like the one you received twice are either at times when you have already completed a transaction with someone else or no longer care if a deal is made at all. Personally, I have lost my excitement of car purchasing due to a negative experience. So when I get a new car, either the salesperson reaches my buying price or forget it. I just don't care anymore and that's such an advantage of scoring a great deal.

I've always been super neurotic about taking care of my new cars. Most of the time this can limit the amount of fun I have with it since I won't push the engine hard or take it to certain locations. I was acting the same way when I got the RX-8. However, since I planned to have it bought back, I realized I could let go a bit and just have fun with it. Let me tell you, I've had more fun with this car the last two weeks than I've had with any vehicle I've driven. Like graphic guy mentioned, the HP seems to be raising. The MPG is still sort of iffy, but eventually, I believe that will improve too. Though I have my reasons for having it bought back, it wouldn't have disappointed me to keep it either. It's easily the best car for the price on the market right now (even if you did pay MSRP). I just found myself not using the practicality of the vehicle. I don't put anything in the back and put all my stuff in the passenger seat. I still have the two seater, convertible scent (which was my last car) and I just haven't been able to get rid of it! Perhaps I can get a good deal this winter on a new S2000.

graphicguy · September 2003

p....the deal for the 6 MT in Boston looks to be a "stripper" which would be in the $26K range MSRP. That's without destination charges, though. How much you want to make a bet they all of a sudden add the dest. charges back in once you get to the dealership?

brozen.....yep, always seems to be the "best deals" out there aren't ones we can duplicate as they all of a sudden didn't exist or dried up. Same way with huge amounts of inventory. Someone says they saw a bunch here or there, but once you do a little follow-up, the stock disappears.

graphicguy · September 2003

Can't fault your S2000 choice at all....nice cars.

chrisboth · September 2003

Quote: I've been a big critic of Nissan's horsepower inflation, as well as Acuras. Not because I care about the rating, but because the performance doesn't add up. The 350Z, based upon it's "ratings" should be able to come close to my old 1997 Supra TT in performance and certainly surpass my current S2000 or the former 240hp E36 M3. In reality, it's slightly to significantly behind all three (not within eyesight of the similarly heavy Supra). And I too question the whether the identical engine that produces 240 hp in the Altima can be "tweaked" with exhaust system changes to produce 287 hp in the 350Z. Almost every model that uses the 3.5 liter Nissan workhorse engine has a different horspower rating, coincinding, just by chance, with their "level" in the Infiniti/Nissan hierarchy. Altima - 240. G35 - 260. G35 coupe - 280. 350Z - 287. Come on, do us customers look that gullible? "

You must own an RX and feel pretty bad with all the issues to make some of these suggestions about the performance nissan offers. First, no owners of the nissan products you mention were let down from the expectations they had from a tricked up test car that never came to market. Not to mention when you drive the Z or G the thrust feels like a V8 and not in any way compromised like the less than thrilling acceleration of the rx-8.

"slightly and significantly behind the e36 m3 and the s2000" Thats just wrong man...i beat an m3 last month from 1999 and raced my buds 6 mos ago in my sedan G35 and really made him mad. As for the s2000 - much better than a mazda but still beaten often by sedan g's with that awful VQ that wins award after award. s2000 need a launch from hell to run with the VQ and yes then they are faster...how many lauches you got at 7000 rpm before something flys off the drivetrain? 3, 4, 10 maybe??

I mostly found your comments about the altima hp and the z hp being bogus and assuming they use the same exact setup in each and simply market the hp # as whatever they want. Dude have you looked in the engine bay of a z and then an altima - check it out. The Z has a much different intake pipe and plenum not to mention the exhaust is significanly different with variable output top increase low rpm torque in the Z. Can't speak to the supra from experience but the NA supra was about 1 second slower which actually says alot about the supra I-6. Turbo should not be compared. Drive a Z and then an Altima 3.5...listen and look and then think again. I actually think that TT Supra with 5 seconds and 340 HP is right on compard to 287 HP NA and a 5.5 time. Your talking 53 HP lower and its prob a drivers race.

bpraxis · September 2003

Hello everyone and I am seeing many RX8s sitting on the lots at local dealers that I pass by everyday. One dealer is advertising over 30 new 8s for sale.

This does not bode well for winter sales where traditionally sports car sales are weak.

My guess would be the dealers will be very flexible with discounting soon. My target would be a maximum of $500 over cost.

gee35coupe · September 2003

With Bpraxis. I'm seeing those same ads...And unbought cars.

graphicguy · September 2003

same people, posting the same tired stuff, dredging up the same tired points over and over again.

"My car beats this other car...tons of stock over here...no, its over there....big discounts aren't here yet, but they're coming (no matter what those who have experience say)....." and on and on and on!

...mostly from Nissan lovers.

You guys keep chasing ghosts.....

jaquino · September 2003

Habitat does not own a RX-8, he has a Honda S2000, so please dont bash the RX-8, the owners here dont need another RX-8 vs 350Z argument

Thats the last thing I want to see here. I will soon own a 350Z myself, and if I could afford another car I would get the RX-8 rather than another sedan to haul the family around while having fun!

Its funny, even on an RX-8 board Habitat manages to insert something bad about the 350Z in between discussions. It no secret about his displeasure on the 350Z, anyway he is entitled to his opinions, some of which I actually agree on.

The 350Z is definitely not a lightweight, most especially compared to the S2000... however its unfair to compare a 4 cylinder to one that has a V6. Lets compare the 350Z to a Honda sports car that does have a V6, the Acura NSX. The 2004 Acura NSX 6MT coupe weighs 3153 lbs (from Acura's Website). My Enthusiast 350Z weighs in at 3197, only 44 lbs heavier, and the NSX is made mostly of Aluminum while the Z is not!

Also when comparing to the 1995 Maxima, while the 350Z is indeed heavier, it does have a significantly better crash score as well. I checked on the 1995 Maxima crash scores, and it was rated poor/marginal, while the 350Z is rated Excellent. All the weight was probably used to increase structural integrity.

It is not fair to compare newer cars with the older generation. I looked up the 1991 NSX, and it only weighed in at 3069, so you can see that the newer generation NSX has gained weight over time, no doubt to make it more crash worthy.

Plus all that platform sharing is going to cost the Z some weight no doubt, but at the price point it is selling I cant complain.

Although I agree with Habitat about the HP thing, compared to BMW ALL Japanese makes seem to be overstating their horsepower. BMW either understates their HP, or their transmission is the most efficent on the planet, with RWHP quite near to their crank HP.

The S2000 puts out 195HP average to the rear wheels, the 350Z puts out 230HP average. Given this figure,

S2000 240HP, about 18.75% drivetrain loss.
350Z 287HP, about 19.86% drivetrain loss.

Given these figues, the Z is not too far behind the S2000. Now compare this to a BMW 330CI that makes 201HP to the rear wheels.

330CI 225 HP, 10.6% drivetrain loss.

As you can see, BOTH Japanese cars have over-inflated HP compared to the BMW. So if the 350Z is guilty of over-inflating the HP numbers, Honda is guilty as well with theirs.

graphicguy · September 2003

I know that some of you are Nissan fans. Question is why do you want to congregate here instead of the Z or G forums?

Only thing I can ascertain is that you want an RX8?

If you really want some discussion points, you can take a look at this....

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1839/article.html

graphicguy · September 2003

Thanks for the sanity!

chrisboth · September 2003

What else is a nissan owner with some time to do?? Thw whole thing about the buy backs has any enthusiast bummed for the owners choosing buybacks...it's gotten tons of attention and I am actually looking for a wifer car and the RX-8 was on the list until she saw the Z and now wants a murano...ugh.

My comments are valid and welcome or not you dont need an RX to post here. I contemplate purchasing everything that comes out that i can afford. I have no strings attached to my vehicle - i just want the best that 40k can buy..I am always in the market and never upside down in my car.

Of course we/YOU don't need another 350Z arguemnt but I can't read that kinda of comment that the altima and 350 have same setup and let it go...my reaction is to that poor mis-informed soul who has yet to see the wisdom and value in the VQ3.5.

I have no doubt that the RX-8 buyers give &@#^ whether I like the car or not - these guys prob got calloused by people like me from rx-7 days and are stronger fans now than ever. It's a nice car I never dissed it for anything other than lack of power...which is butt dynod anyway and while it may be faster it simply doesn't feel faster...actually the only reason i even poseted was the old m3 comment and the s2000 comment. I get fired up about m3 as my bud and I have quite a fued about it and i have gotten more emotional over time about G vs M3.

Everyone uses inconsistent methods to rate HP and someone above just did the math to show it. Nissan markets the number a bit high as Mazda did but mazda has a bad track record from miata - neither are good for doing it. BMW is lowballing the # for either insurance reasons or to market that thier car is better with less HP and i suspect the latter...only way to tell us to put em all up on a dyno same day same way and dop some more math.

My best goes to anyone who didn't get what they paid for when they bought any car.

chrisboth · September 2003

isnt the link to the 350 article written by a world rally publication...if i drove a impreza based car all day i would get in the z and think i was in a limo. And the z is a little hard as described there - thats what the G sells so well for. Few bad press comments have been seen for the car of the year. I would hope someone has something bad to say about every car - it's not a cuban election.

graphicguy · September 2003

Just a bit weary of all the people posting blatantly false information regarding the RX8.

The only thing I can ascertain is that they really want to be in an RX8, but can't for whatever reason. So they come in here, not to give pertinent and useful information, but to spread FUD.

The HP quote has been debated to death. I applaud Mazda, not for misstating, but for the guts to stand up and say "the HP issue isn't very significant when it comes to actual performance, but here's a strong offer". I don't see any other manufacturer doing the same when it's clear they've fudged the HP numbers, too....not Nissan for misstating the Z/G numbers, not Daimler for the 300M...none of them.

Then there are those who are trying to drag down the value of the RX8 by blatantly misstating purchase and stock figures.

That's some large jealousy to get that much attention, in my book. Maybe us RX8 owners should consider it a complement that our cars get so much attention.....

jaquino · September 2003

Glad to be of help, even if I am a wanna-be RX-8er!

pmarini · September 2003

First, I ask again, has anyone completed the buy back process? Please provide details. When I talk to people on the 800 number, they make it sound as if it will be weeks before they get me an offer. And it does not sound as if many people are going for buyback, but expiration is at end of month. FWIW, my dealer says I am the first customer calling in with questions.

Amyway, I am leaning to keeping. I am not a subject matter expert or nut on sportscars. Mid age, 4 kids; older.
I drove 98 Cobra Convertible for awhile.
I missed the zest.
Rx8 has plenty enough for me, plus I like the abscence of the torque in most of my city driving. I love drving the back curvy roads. The thing seems to anticipate the turn before I get there.
I am a golfer, so the Z was not even in play, no trunk. Occasionlly I have take 13 yr old to friends house, with wifey in car. So I still need backseat. So no Z. BTW, plenty of Z's on the lots where I am.

No matter where I drive the 8, heads turn. Teenagers have asked me to open the hood. Mid lifers come up all the time, and then I blow them away with suicide doors and trunk.
Love the dash.
Love the sound system.
My son is 19. We drove it to the basement where his buddies hang out (5.0 and 240 drifters). Reactions "what the f? no way? sounds like a turbo, you gotta be [non-permissible content removed] me" My son is a certified car nut and he loves driving it.
Have not seen one other 8 on the road, but I do not see many z's either.
Funnest car I have ever had. More fun than Cobra, and I am saving on chiropractic bills from no head jerking.
MPG is bothersome, but I drive about 300 miles per week. At 20 MPG, I would need 15 gallons. I am getting 17.5, so I need 18 gallons. 3 gallons at a max of $2 is $6 bucks a week. $310 a year. I think I'll take the $500 and smile.
I don't know of another car with the headturning style and the room, with the fun that this thing has.
BTW, I got the dark metallic green. Again, the kids think it is the nuts. Car Nut is owrk says it reminds him of the old English race car color.
Other say the style of the car is Italian.

Are you selling or keeping?

carliker · September 2003

Jaquino - It's obvious Nissan has a problem in doing this stating accurate HP since it was proven a couple years ago with the Maxima/Altima...where buyers weren't reimbursed at all for a 5HP error. Mazda handled it with class at least. Don't drag Honda into the mix just because Nissan is highly suspected of overstating actual HP. I've never heard an auto journalist/magazine questioning the HP integrity of any Honda vehicle (nor publishing a reinstatement of a flubbed HP rating). They never talk about any so-called "drivetrain loss" percentage in their tests of vehicles either. I just don't have any idea of what you are talking about.

Though it's unfair to judge the 350ZX without professional tested evidence, Nissan's Maxima/Altima situation leaves people suspicious of other Nissan vehicles' HP rating.

Graphic Guy - After thinking of the total amount of cars which are going to be available in the U.S. market this year (12K), there is no way that all of these cars can be seen in dealer's lots. There might be slight discounting (such as $500.00 perhaps), but no more than that for this year. If there is higher discounting than that, it's just dealers attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of buyers until they set foot in a showroom. Then the news of a "rust protection plan", "extended warranty plan" or a discount off of an already inflated MSRP+ priced car will be presented to bring to light what the real offer is. So bypraxis and gee35coupe, those ads are misleading and the lots you say are filled can't possibly be true due to the fact that there are only going to be 12K made this year. That's 2000 less than g35 coupes made in their first year of production. I saw very few of those in lots. Unless those dealers you speak of managed to get their hands on part of the 30K being made next year, I can't say your acoounts hold water. I have had mine for two months now and haven't even seen another one on the road.

chrisboth - I was wondering if I should even comment at all on your post, but I couldn't resist. First of all, the g sedan is slower than the RX-8 according to autoweek.com and every other auto magazine printed, so how could it even possibly touch an S2000? That's just a ridiculous statement to make. Remember, when you race the guy next to you, he has to actually realize that you are racing him. Otherwise, it's just you accelerating. The M3 obviously wasn't racing with you or wasn't working properly not to pass your heavy sedan.

In the roadster comparo that Car&Driver had, the S2000 was the fastest one next to the BMW Z4 (3.0). It didn't need a tire soking launch to be the second fastest either...otherwise, Car&Driver would have reported that (like they did for the RX-8 5.9 second time). I'm sure that almost every S2000 owner has pushed their engines to the 7000 RPM line several times and nothing happens to the engne. You sound silly when you question the amount of 7000 RPM launches this vehicle can take "before something flys off the drivetrain". Do I have to remind you of this car's perfect HISTORY OF RELIABILITY? It's the best! And when people buy this car, they really drive it! It's the only vehicle in consumer reports to have three perfect scores for performance, reliability and depreciation. I don't mind people have their own opinion, but c'mon! BTW, the old Sanford & Son truck could beat your G35!

carliker · September 2003

A woman (from the third party service Mazda is using for the buyback program) told me two weeks from the time they receive the signed document that shows your refundable amount. This is the procedure I went through:

1. Called 1-800 number and told them I wanted to do the buyback. The lady was going to mail me a document but I had her fax it so I would get it quicker. Once I got the document, I signed it stating I wanted Mazda to buy back my car. I sent it to the specified address certified mail. This is important so you have proof that you started this before the Oct. 1 deadline.

2. 3 to 5 days later, a woman from a third party service called and said I had to call the bank I was getting my loan from so I they would have permission to get the lien amount on the car. She also said that I should be expecting an e-mail (or phone call) stating how much money was to be refunded.

3. At first, she had the wrong total. When we settled on the refundable amount, I faxed her a signed copy. She told me that it takes two weeks from that time for the check to be processed.

4. At that time, someone from the service or sales dept. of the dealership you bought the car at will contact you to turn in the car and receive your check.

Hope that helps!

jaquino · September 2003

I did not intend to drag the S2000 into this discussion, but Habitat tends to bring up the S2000 against the 350Z a lot. I was mostly making counter-points to his arguments. And he also likes to bring in his 1995 Maxima as well. You notice I did not make any deragotory statements against the S2000 either. I actually like the S2000.

You notice I also stated that I did not single out Honda on the HP as well, all Japanese makes are guilty of this... when you compare them to BMW. I was merely stating that if Nissan is to be hammered for their "ballooning" of the HP, then Honda should be held up to the same standards as well, dont you agree?

About the "Drivetrain loss", it basically tells you what % of actual HP gets lost to the rear wheels, as opposed to published HP. Basically all manufacturers measure HP at the Engine Crank, not at the rear wheels. That is not something that is published in marketing materials. I assumed that majority on this board understood what that meant, my mistake. Again, "Drivetrain loss" is not a deragotory term at all.

I am not questioning Honda's S2000 HP rating, where did you read in my statement that I was?

Never heard of the Maxima HP fiasco you are talking about. And if you are talking about Nissan reducing the Altima's HP rating from 180 to 175, they announced the change before the car went on sale. The 180HP was merely their targetted HP, so what if they did not meet it? The customers knew they were getting 175HP, because that was on the sticker. What are you getting at?

But I digress, this is an RX-8 forum... so if we can go back to talking about the RX-8, that is certainly fine by me!

pmarini · September 2003

so, you sold your's back?

Main reason was the hp?

the_big_h · September 2003

the green on your RX-8 is called Nordic Green Mica.

the color does resemble the british racing green color the old English roadsters had.

and have faith in the MPG of the car, rotaries improve in gas mileage noticeably as you drive it more.

and I believe you have officially become a rotorhead :-)

chrisboth · September 2003

A debate again.....really though no harm meant with any speed dissin but I drove the rx-8 and the thing was 20 miles old and not broken in and sounded great but was not killin me with whiplash early on in rpm's. It's a very respectable car in many many ways as I stated after a test drive several weeks ago. As far as going 1320 from a dead stop i'de expect a s2000 when drop kicked from 9000 do a 14 flat and beat any g sedan - same for the 8 - both cars have plenty of power in a smaller but highly enthusiastic area of the power curves.

Now in southeastern PA where we start races on the highway at 50, things get pretty good for the old 260 hp 260 tq 3300 # heavy [non-permissible content removed] sedan. As my car has broken in and I added a hyper grounding kit the car had beaten several v-8s including 04 mustang gt's, 540i's. I had some fun with s2000 but early on in a rolling start race i was ahead as he pulled hard after gaining some momentum. Very fun and either car was right there in most cases.

And i think i know when people are racing as they seem pretty po'd most of the time when they are 1/2 a car lenght behin sometimes at 120. The sedan is quite impressive as I'm sure you don't want to hear but IF you want to blow your clutch trying to hang with some 1/4 mile runs I'm sure you can become impressed with fat boy G in its aluminum glory. Magazine smagazine, bring out the real world in your test and see who can run the quart.

himiler · September 2003

How many HP do you figure the hyper grounding kit on your car is worth?

If you haven't yet figured out that the RX-8 wasn't built to chase tail in "the quart", then it's doubtful you ever will.

(That driving in a straight line stuff sure is tricky, isn't it?)

graphicguy · September 2003

http://www.racv.com.au/Coporate/RoyalAutoArticle.asp?d_id=2354

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-814284,00.html

graphicguy · September 2003

I saw 500 RX8s on a dealer's back lot in some city in North Dakota. They were all loaded and the dealer said I could take my pick. He was selling them for a dollar, but once I got to the finance room, they said that they all came equipped with the $34,000 SUPERSHINE kit that lasts for 50 years...so no washing or waxing is ever needed ;-)

jaquino · September 2003

Nice one graphicguy! However, the dealer should be charging only $31000 for the supershine kit... he is adding a $3000 dealer mark-up!

gee35coupe · September 2003

I saw 7 on a dealership in Duluth Ga. As I said, since the car is barely 2 months old, they should not be there. Make fun all you want but the first 2 months of cars that are "hot" will not be hanging around the dealership. Not only that, this room doesn't have the tone of other cars that were eagerly anticipated. Heck the Mazda6/3 room is more animated.

chrisboth · September 2003

I think the grounding kit is worth about 5hp. It's more about smoothness and AT smoothness.

Since the conversation was about engine power and now that one turned into thats not what the rx-8 is for...my car has a longer wheelbase than a 5 series and is carrying 5 people comfortably...the engine should be the focus of the comparisons. BUt since you changed the game, my all seasons would get smoked Im sure but give me the pilots in 225 -235 form in stock rims and lets talk more at the track.. hate to quote magazines but check out the slalom times and G test...extrememly similar...if i can do 67 in slalom with mom and dad in the back and then thrust out of turns with 260 260, you wont be in front of me. Like I said, the only way you can beat me is in the 0-60 runs with a launch that you prob cant handle...take to the twisties and you have a fat race from one heavy asse aluminum pistoned infiniti with that awful 52/48 weight dist....mom and dad prob make it 35/75 though. Zoom Zoom

graphicguy · September 2003

That Nordic Green is a great color. You must have one of the rare ones. I've only seen pics of the color, but from what others have said, it looks black at night and has all the metalflake that makes it looke a sparkling dark green with bluish hints during the day.

Mazda did a wonderful job on the colors and careful paint application on the RX8. Eith the exception of the yellow, the metal flake in all the colors really give different effects depending on the lighting conditions.

I know my winning blue looks a lot different in sunlight than it does at dusk. It's almost like it takes on a different hue at night.

MPG is also going up on mine. I'm getting 18 in all city and 24 on all highway. I'm getting 20 MPG in mixed driving. I don't "baby" it either. Got a little over 1,000 miles on it. It's really starting to come into its own as it breaks in a little more. It's smoother (if that's possible) and stronger acceleration-wise.

I'm debating whether to do an oil change already. Mine hasn't used one drop of oil, but some say after the first oil change, MPG increases. I'm going to take my dealership up on the "free maintenance" and probably get an oil change next week.

carliker · September 2003

Jaquino - Probably since the magazines don't publish the "drivetrain loss" percentage in terms to HP ratings, that's probably why I'm not familiar with it. If there was any true significance to it, wouldn't they publish more things about it? I just read in Autoweek.com that the Altima/Maxima was short of 5HP, but you could be right that it was discovered before the cars were to be sold.

Chrisboth - There is no debate. Either the devil owns part of the southeastern PA highway in which you made a deal with, or you are just living in some kind of fantasyland concerning your g sedan. It very well could have nice acceleration (like the Maxima), but there is just NO way it's going to compete with the cars your mentioning (even if you gave it a 5HP boost). You're starting to sound like the Iraqi Information Minister! As for pure acceleration / straight line speed (which seems to be the only racing you are doing), magazines DO give accurate or "real world" tests of the cars in question. Professionals have raced these vehicles in "real" situations and the RX-8 is just faster (even against the BMW 330) ...deal with it. It's been published in every auto magazine as such. There is no debate here!

Mazda RX-8

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