Saab 9-3 Sedan

dindak · March 2003

Are you shopping or still just contemplating the idea?

freemahc · March 2003

I have the green with parchment interior, I really like the combo. The green is not very green at all, all of my friends thought it was black from a distance. At night it is almost impossible to tell it;s green. All that being said, side by side I think the green looks much bette than the black, plus it doesn't show dirt as quickly.

I think the parchment is a little on the light side, but I haven't seen a gray interior in person so I have no opinion there.

Touring pkg is cool.

glutz1 · March 2003

I'm trying to wrap up my decision making process to purchase a new sport sedan and have recently added a 9-3 Linear to the mix and would appreciate any input from '03 Linear owners. If I go Japanese, I have concluded after much research and driving that the Mazda6S is the best choice relative to price & performance and I'm trying to decide between the 6 and a Linear.

What are the views on the quality of the new Saab's ? I happen to have 3 individuals who work for me who drive late model Saab's and they all have indicated that they've had a nbr of issues (e.g. failed turbos, broken door hinges, broken trim and interior pieces, etc, etc) w/their cars & that while they have been readily fixed under Warranty, they concern me over the long term. I know that the older Saab turbos were problematic, but does anyone have a sense as to whether the turbos on the '03 cars can reasonably be expected to last for the life of the vehicle w/proper maintenance ?

Also, given that neither IIHS nor NHTSA crash test ratings are available for the new 9-3 yet, is it really realistic to expect that the Saab will be significantly safer in a crash than a modern Japanese car such as the Mazda6 ?

Thanks
Thx

gjl3 · March 2003

Of the cars I have owned over the last several years - 1986 Mazda 626 GT, 1990 Nissan Maxima SE, 1995 Saab 9003, 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear; they were all very reliable; but the Mazda stands out in my mind for having very expensive scheduled maintenance. This may have just been my dealer; but don't assume that the Mazda is cheap to own because it is Japanese.

wmquan · March 2003

Speaking to your question on crash tests, I think the Saab is probably better than the Mazda6.

The Saab 9-3 is one of only 3 vehicles sold in the U.S. that has tested with a 5-star safety rating in the European crash tests. EuroNCAP's testing procedures and scoring system is more demanding than the U.S. IIHS and NHTSA tests. EuroNCAP uses the offset frontal crash test similar to IIHS's, as well as a side-impact test more advanced than what the NHTSA uses (e.g. they measure for head injury whereas NHTSA does not, and now routinely conduct a "pole test" to measure the effectiveness of side curtains or lack thereof).

Based on this, I have no worries about not having IIHS or NHTSA results for the 9-3.

http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm

and click "Large Family Cars"

I believe only 6 vehicles have achieved 5-stars in EuroNCAP. The other two sold in the U.S. are the pricier Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class, so the Saab is certainly doing something right!

Going beyond crash tests, the Saab has excellent safety features and design. E.g. whiplash-reduction headrests (that IIHS has documented reduce injury).

So far no IIHS-tested Mazda has achieved even a basic "Good" rating in IIHS. Though the 6 may change that, but there's no way to be sure until the results come out.

Yes, I think the Saab probably performs better in collisions than the Mazda. Saab, like Volvo, has a really big emphasis on safety and does extensive internal crash testing and shapes their designs around them. The superb EuroNCAP result validates this.

cmfas55 · March 2003

I test drove a 2000 Saab 9-3 convertible and although I was not that impressed - thought it was small inside, was fairly spartan and had only decent pick-up and handling - my wife loves the way it looks and really wants one. Can anyone share their thoughts on the reliability of the brand? The dealer was asking $21,600 for it with 37k miles. I never really considered one so I have no idea about them.
The one we looked at was the S model (I think). 4 cyl Turbo. Is the turbo reliable? It reminded me of an American car for some reason. Not like a Volvo, more like an Oldsmobile.

code7700 · March 2003

For what it is worth, I looked at every car under $35K (and I mean it). From the Maxima SE, to the Mazda6, to the BMW... and the 9-3 was "it" by more than a few miles.

I really liked the Mazda6, but the fit and finish were poor. Ditto on the Maxima SE. Both of those cars have great engines. The Mazda6 impressed me quite a bit. But it felt cheaply made. I tend to feel your car says a lot about you (even if what is saying isn't true). I think the Saab 9-3 gives off a better "message" than most cars, but especially the Mazda6. The Saab 9-3 looks more sporty and less like a "gangsta" car driven by some punk-[non-permissible content removed] kid. =8) And best of all, I paid way less than $30K for my car (and many thousands less than a BMW, but only tiny bit more than a fully loaded Mazda6.)

Word.

jabeeva · March 2003

I decided to go with the Touring package (thanks for the advice on the touring package) + the launch package + heated seats + automatic. My color options have changed somewhat, I can get the graphite green with the light interior or the merlot red with the grey interior (reverse of prior options w/o touring package). I think I'm going with the Merlot red now. I don't like light interiors.

My VERY favorite color is steel grey which noone seems to have with my desired options. I'm considering waiting for a driver's package + touring package combo. Any thoughts? Wouldn't be able to get the car before the first week of April.

My current deal is pretty good (I think). $3500 down (that includes tax (8.25% here in NY), title & registration, a $1000 bank fee (just went up from $495 in NY) and around $900 cap cost reduction. My monthly is $324 (wanted to keep my monthly low).

This is a 36 month, 10K mile lease. List is $32,285, cost to me $28,316. Any ideas on how I could shave off a few bucks here, a few bucks there?

Thanks.

kyfdx · March 2003

Not real familiar with NY.. Do you pay the 8.25% sales tax up front? Is $3500 the amount due at signing? If the $3500 includes all your sales tax, $1000 acquisition, security deposit, $900 cap cost reduction, and first month's payment, it sounds like a pretty good deal.
I think your color choice is the right one, I'd want the darker interior also.
As far as waiting, I wouldn't. I didn't see anything on the driver's pkg I couldn't do without.
If your deal is as I understand it above, I'd pull the trigger.

Good luck!
kyfdx

jabeeva · March 2003

kyfdx: Yes, the $3500 includes the 8.25% sales tax.

I'd only be waiting for the the driver's package to get the steel grey.

blitzin1 · March 2003

MSRP on the car is $32,285 and dealer invoice is $30,080 (incl. $625 transportation fee) and you are getting what seems to be a great deal at $28,316- what discounts are you getting? There is the $1000 launch package discount (not all dealers), the $500 (now $1000) Saab/GM loyalty rebate for current owners, and the $1000 cash back if you find your own financing. Would like to hear what went into your deal.

kyfdx · March 2003

Car_man in a post in leasing forum said there was a $2000 incentive on the 9-3, if leasing through Saab financial. I'll try to do a search, and look it up.

kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2003

here is the post, pasted from lease questions board:

. Here is the info that you're looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sedan through Saab Financial Services Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00057 and 50%, respectively. In addition to this special lease money factor, Saab is providing $2,000 dealer cash on this model that bay be used to negotiate a lower capitalized cost.

hope this helps

kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2003

That info in msg above was posted on 03/09/2003, by Car_Man in the Lease questions- ask here forum in finance, warranty and insurance

jabeeva · March 2003

I did get the $2000 Linear rebate. Blitzin, other than that, not sure what you mean by what went into the deal? Let me know if you need greater detail.

zeroch · March 2003

I recently noticed that when my linear/auto is accelerating, when I hit at around 50mph (I guess that's where the auto shift from 4th to 5th) there was a not-so-subtle "underpower" or "stalling", same feeling as if you start the car with 2nd gear instead of 1st gear. I have to press the gas much deeper than usual to maintain a decent acceleration which causes the turbo to redline. I never noticed this before but I have several hyptothesis:
1. The car is designed that way, I did not notice that because I was in "honeymoon" with the car before, the 5th gear simply kicks in too early.
2. something's wrong with the turbo or the air intake? I am not familiar with the way turbo work, but I never noticed that the turbo would redline that often?
3. something's broken with my transmission, causing it to upshift prematurely.

For all of you linear/auto owners, please pay attention everytime you are going from 45 to 55 and observe if the same thing happens and post your experience.

pat · March 2003

Join us tonight, 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for another
round of automotive trivia and member-to-member chat.
Test your skills (or multiple choice guessing ability)
against other Town Hall members.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

Hope to see you there!

regfootball · March 2003

I notice the S60 Volvo can be had with 5 speed on a base model. For a good price too, around 27 MSRP. The Volvo is a lot more comfy inside. Both cars are stylish....I'm not sure what the hp is on the Volvo. How does the Linear fare in comparison to the base swede competition? (s60).

blitzin1 · March 2003

Another option (I'm waiting on my Arc, so this is all speculation on my part) is that the automatic transmission "adapts" to your driving style, and shifts accordingly- because you were in the break-in period and babying the car, it thinks you are a relaxed driver, and it shifts early. Once it adapts to a more aggressive driving style it will delay the 4-5 shift to higher in the rev band, which will help prevent the bogging down of RPMS you are getting. Then again, it could be a design problem, but yours is the first post I have seen on this on any board.

dbozman · March 2003

For reference, my lease rates on a 2003 9-3 Linear (launch, touring, stick, steel gray, by the way) is $360/month, tax inclusive for 36, 12K/year, $1,000 out of pocket. Total cost of the vehicle: $28,527.02.

For the Mazda, I was pretty hot on it ... until I drove the Saab. While I did enjoy the multiple 6 test drives I took, we're talking another class of car here. When you start looking at the cost of a loaded 6 vs. the 9-3, the choice becomes much more clear. Go drive the 9-3 and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Dion

kyfdx · March 2003

Your post of the invoice on a new Saab was very informative... If you have the time, can you read post #1111. I would really like that info, if you know it.

Thanks in advance,

kyfdx

code7700 · March 2003

No idea what it is. Sorry. Maybe you can call your dealer and ask. They'll know.

kyfdx · March 2003

thanks for quick response.. one thing I noticed on that invoice, thats not on the websites: advertising fees, which I understand because they vary according to dealer location, but, also.. dealer prep ($130). That doesn't show up on any website info.

kyfdx

ramonaledge · March 2003

Greetings,

I am in the process of buying a 1999 Saab 9-3 SE 4 door hatch back.

Anyone have advice of what to look out for mechanically and otherwise?

I remember in the 80's everyone talked about problems with turbo's and "Coking". Is this still an issue or has the problem been resolved?

Any advice for turbo owners?

Anyone who owns this car care to reply with likes/dislikes, etc?

I value all feedback. Thank you in advance and have a great day!

Mike

wmquan · March 2003

one thing I noticed on that invoice, thats not on the websites: advertising fees, which I understand because they vary according to dealer location, but, also.. dealer prep ($130). That doesn't show up on any website info.

Most websites qualify their quotes and mention that they may not have all regional charges, and prep charges too. The Saab advertising charge in the invoice varies from state to state. Some states don't have it. Seems that the prep fee is usually in there, though.

danncas · March 2003

I presently have a MB 230, I plan on replacing it in 2004. So I have looked at several models of cars. I wanted to find a AWD model. I looked at the BMW, the MB,Audi,Volvo, sorry not Mazda, nice but not in the same league. Well to make a long story short I was going for the Volvo. I get a discount on Ford products. The dealer told me that I could do better if I take oversea delivery. He was so right, I could save thousands of dollars. So with this in mind I looked a Saab too. I drove a Saab ARC and I fell in love with this car. It has as much technology as my MB and less money too. So in September I am ordering my new 2004 Vector with everything on it. Saab will give me a check for $1000 for air fare to Sweden.
(Volvo 2 air fares.)Saab will pay for 1 or 2 night stay, ship the car back to the USA free. I save with the plane fair, the destination fee, and every thing but state taxes. The bottom line The Saab Vector list 37,800 I will pay 33,600 and no destination charges plus $1000 check. No hassle no bargining. Its Great and a great car. I CANT WAIT.

fedlawman · March 2003

Can you provide some details on Saab's overseas delivery program? Is there a website?

danncas · March 2003

Fedlawnman, If you go to the Saab site you will find a tab about the overseas delivery program. Also your local dealer should be able to help you.

code7700 · March 2003

It is about $2,000 less than you'd pay here. But depending on where you pick it up and drop it off, the fees can range from $0 to $500 each time (once for pick-up and once for drop-off). Before you even pick the car up, it has to be paid for (in full). You can't use Saab or GM finance. Then, it takes 6-10 weeks for the car to get back here. And you're making payments on your car for that 6-10 weeks (maybe longer with the war going on). So in the end, you break even.

Only good if you plan on going over to Europe for a few months (or year) on business or whatever. I was going to do it, but ended up finding one here.

The cool part is you get a nice factory tour and what have you.

rudikamp · March 2003

You forget to mention the $ 1000.00 Saab will give
you for your trip.

radman12 · March 2003

Can someone clarify the differences in the turbos of the linear and Arc/Vector trims?

In speaking with the salesman, he said that the lower hp for the linear was the result of only applying the turbo to 2 of the 4 cylinders and that the Arc/Vector had turbo on all 4 cylinders. My expectation was that the difference was in turbo pressure (even the Saab literature calls them low and high pressure turbos). I'm not too knowledgeable about engines but it wouldn't do to have 2 cylinders with turbo and 2 with normal aspiration.

The line of questioning was related to whether the linear could be chipped down the road similar to what I've been reading about VW/Audi's.

Any help? Thanks.

wmquan · March 2003

Unfortunately, one can't just chip the 9-3 Linear engine and get a 9-3 Vector/Arc. Please see post #1058 in this forum for explanation of the differences between the 2.0t and the 2.0T.

I doubt the 2-cylinder vs. 4-cylinder. The difference in power is accounted for the fact that they are different turbo units providing different levels of boost.

I'm sure there'll eventually be various upgrades available, but they'll fall short of simply having a bigger, higher-compression turbo.

desertfoxaz · March 2003

That's totally absurd. Your salesman knows nothing about these cars. There is no such thing as booting only two of the cylinders. Half the cylinders can't have a different compression ratio than the other half. If it were possible, it wouldn't make any sense.

The Garett turbo on the Linear puts out less boost than the Mitsubishi turbo used in the Arc and Vector. I don't recall what the exact figures are. But that isn't the only difference. I believe that the cylinder heads are different.

There is no way to convert the 2.0t to a 2.0T without changing some of the engine hardware. But the cost of doing that would likely be more than if you just bought an Arc or Vector to begin with.

blitzin1 · March 2003

Your salesman is talking through his #$%. From my previous post, as pointed out by wmquan:

The 2.0t puts out 175 horsepower with a low pressure Garrett GT20 turbo putting out .7 bar. The 2.0T puts out 210 Horsepower and uses a Mitsubishi TD04 high pressure turbo, at .85 Bar.

Different units, different pressures. Some have posted here that the head units on the 2.0T motors are different too, to handle the increased pressure.

code7700 · March 2003

I spoke to that same sales guy as well, he told me that the Linear has 2 different sized wheels, (15" on the left and 17" on the right) and that if I bought the more expensive Arc, I'd get all 4 wheels the exact same size. Heh heh.

oldsman01 · March 2003

What some of these salespeople say is pretty sad. One has to wonder if they have ever driven a car sometimes.

camacle · March 2003

I just purchased a new Arc w/auto, m/r, and heated seats. A very nice purchasing experience from Gregg Masters at Uftring-Saab in Washington, IL. Undoubtedly, the most accommodating and professional salesman I have ever dealt with. The deal was pretty good, the service unbeatable, so far. It is a lovely car. I was very fortunate to walk into the dealership and pretty much see the car I wanted (the only Arc they had at that time) sitting there barely unpacked. I will keep you posted on it's honeymoon.

needashave · March 2003

Good luck with the new Arc. Could you share the pricing information for the Arc with the rest of the board? Happy motoring.

ambull · March 2003

C'mon Code7700, you're kidding, right?

kyh2 · March 2003

Hi everyone,

Edmunds says that the TMV for a 2003 9-3 with Launch, automatic and metallic paint is $27,007.

Has anyone had any luck going lower?

Thanks!

code7700 · March 2003

Yes, I'm kidding. It is a joke. Read the post about the ½-turbo the sales guy was talking about.

radman12 · March 2003

Thanks for the confirmation on the turbo. BTW I did seem to notice that the car was leaning to the left...

On another note, has anyone spruced up their audio systems? I read the post about the 6x9's. I'm interested in whether I'd be able to put in an after-market amp and new speakers all around without major hassle.

wassallj · March 2003

Anyone have a picture of the Saab mudflaps on a 9-3ss? I was wondering what they look like.

whskvs · March 2003

I've read earlier in the board Saab residuals quoted as:

54% @10,000 miles/year
53% @12,000 miles/year
52% @15,000 miles/year

Today I was quoted:

48% @ 15,000 miles/year
49% @ 12,000 miles/year

for a Vector. This is a big difference. Which one is right?

whskvs · March 2003

I was also quoted a 0.00128 money factor for a Vector lease which is higher than the .00057 listed here.

Is this just different for a Vector as opposed to a Linear / Arc?

jackdar · March 2003

On March 17th, my wife and I leased our second 9-3. The first one was a 2000 9-3 SE 5 speed hatchback (which was why we leased it in the first place). Our lease was up the end of June, with the last payment due the end of May 2003. A month ago, Saab sent us a letter saying that we could return the car early and buy or lease a new one and they would waive the last 3 payments plus provide a $1,000 owner loyalty. That, on top of the $2,000 rebate currently going on, plus a subsidized lease rate produced a $347 per month lease for a Midnight Blue, with heated seats, sunroof, all-season mats and hand-painted pinstripes. Although we miss the utility of the hatchback, we are very pleased with how well the care drives (especially in comparison to the previous 9-3).

A couple of impressions.

On the Minus side:

1) Although the seats generally have better side bolstering, there is still not quite enough in the Linear (but they are very comfortable).

2) You either feel like you are sitting very low, or the doors seem to be quite too high.

3) The cowl is also very high, making it virtually impossible to see the front corners of the car.

4) The overall quality of materials seems to be downgraded somewhat from the previous car. Makes one wonder about wearability, creaks and rattles several years from now.

5) Although the shifter feels better than the previous 9-3, it is still slightly isolated (in that cable linkage kind-of-way) in comparison to my WRX.

6) The car comes with the basic On-Star system for the first year...but...for whatever reason, if you lock yourself out, it can't open the doors remotely on the 9-3 as it can on virtually every other car.

7) There is no dead pedal.

On the Plus side:

1) The torque band is broad and quite useable. With 195 foot pounds of torque available at 2,500 rpm, the car seems faster than its 175 hp and 3,175 pounds would lead you to believe.

2) Where the previous 9-3 SE had copious amounts of torque steer when pushed hard off the line, it has been virtually eliminated from this car.

3) The car holds a corner well. The previous car's center of gravity was very high. This car is an overall much better driving car.

4) The brakes are fantastic!!

5) Although no hatchback, the rear seatbacks do fold down (60/40).

6) You no longer have the put it in reverse when you shut it down and remove the key.

7) More electronic controls and airbags should make it a safer car overall (although my insurance did not reflect any decrease in premium).

8) This engine requires unleaded fuel vs. the premium of my previous 9-3 SE.

9) The first three year's routine maintenance costs are included. Given that I just spent $175 for a 15K service on my WRX, it can make this car very inexpensive to own.

10) Generally a lot more fun to drive than the previous 9-3. We like the fact that this is a "sport sedan" vs. some pseudo-luxury mobile. I would say that it has 80% of the sensation of driving a 3 series (who knows, maybe the Vector would be a better match).

11) They did a great job on re-styling the car. It is truly one of the best looking cars on the road today.

Overall

Very satisfied so far. Our dealer was General Sales in West Chester, PA. A very nice experience, the 82 year old owner even gave my wife a bouquet of flowers when we picked up the car.

shafjac · March 2003

whskys,

The Saab dealer I'm working with faxed me SFSC's "March 2003 Saab Promotional Lease Program for 2003 Models" since I kept hearing so many different numbers on money factors and residuals. I'll outline what that document says about the 2003 9-3 Vector.

For a 15k mile / year lease, the residuals are as follows: 24 mos, 54%; 30 mos, 49%; 36 mos, 48%; 42 mos, 44%; 48 mos, 41%; 60 mos, 33%.

My understanding (for the Linear at least) is that these numbers are increased by 1 percentage point if the mileage per year is decreased to 12k.

As far as money factors are concerned, this says that for 24, 30, and 36 month terms, the MF is .00108. For 42 and 48 month terms, the MF is .00140. For 60 months, the MF is .00288.

The document also states that the maximum dealer markup for promotional rates (all the ones that aren't .00288) is .00040, and .00167 on the standard rate.

And the last pertinent thing I notice here is that waiving the security deposit requires an increase of .00015 to the money factor.

Bear in mind that all of this is only valid through the end of March.

Hope that helps!

whskvs · March 2003

I'm trying to get the $2000 cash back off the invoice price, plus another $1000 cash back off the invoice price (for GM owner loyalty), but then offering back $200 for dealer profit (in addition to their holdback profit). I will then use this number as the cap cost of the lease.

Are you finding that they will apply the $2000 cash back to go "below" the invoice price of the car as the cap cost?

shafjac · March 2003

whskys,

I'm pretty sure that's true. When I've asked my dealer to give me quotes, I've told him to not include the lease support numbers, and he's quoted me numbers that were not $2k over invoice. So I'm assuming I can negotiate him to a few hundred over invoice and then get the $2k off.

He wants to make $500 off the deal, and I noticed there's a $195 "Administration Fee", but my goal is to get him to $200 over invoice, total. We'll see how that goes.

FYI, I'm actually ordering a 9-3 Linear sedan.

- Shafjac

ladybugnova · March 2003

Hi to all.

   I have been all over the place as far as test driving cars the last few months. I am currently driving an Audi TT but the practical reality of being with child has made my beloved vehicle untenable. Finances aren't as great lately either, so I had narrowed my research down to a Mazda 6 and a VW Passat GLX V6. Actually, I ordered the 6, but they called 6 weeks later to tell me my order had disappeared--and I felt somewhat relieved. The 6 drives great, but it felt a bit tinny and the lack of safety reviews worried me. Meanwhile, the Passat has a great looking interior and handled very well. But the low residual value on my TT has embittered me towards VWs in general.

   So I have negotiated a lease deal on the Saab 9-3 Linear. The car handled great. My only wish is that the interior were a bit nicer (we also had a 325XI that we recently sold due to those financial downswings and I really liked the BMW's interior). The safety ratings of the Saab, however, were a powerfully favorable benefit.

   My deal:

   9-3 Linear Manual (Black).

    Driver's Pkg.
    Touring Pkg.
    Wheel Sport Pkg.
    Heated Seats.
    Sunroof.

MSRP: $31,340. (it may be a bit higher--not seen car's sticker).

Invoice: $29,744.

Cap Cost: $28,244.

$2,000 down payment, including 4% sales tax (VA).

Net Cap Cost: $26,244.

Money factor: .00072 (a bit higher than the adv. .00057 b/c 12,000 mi/ year).

Residual: 51%.
36 m/12k mi/year.

Monthly payment: $368.

   They have to dx the car, so I don't have it yet. Basically, I agreed to give them $500 over invoice, in return for all of the $2000 dealer incentive money, for a net $1500 under invoice. I wanted to get $200-300 over invoice, but there aren't a lot of Saab dealers around, and I didn't want to play a real hardball, high pressure game which would have required multiple trips to various dealerships. Instead, it took 10 minutes to negotiate the deal (name of dealership is VOB Saab in Rockville MD).

   Hope this helps.

   I noticed a post above asking about residual values--it's apparent that the dealers have a bit of room to negotiate on that. But they should give you the full $2000 dealer money.

LBnova

Saab 9-3 Sedan

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