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Comments
Locks on front doors rattle when locked..makes less noise when they are unlocked
Sunroof cover rattles when pulled back-silent when fully closed
Seat belt area-have no idea where this is coming from
All heard first month of ownership-have gotten used to them now...dealer, of course was no help..but
This car is really quiet at low or high speed that any noise is exaggerated...at least this is what i tell myself..other people who drive with me are always impressed by how quiet it is.
Enjoy your car...
Some recent July postings on this board also mention a large GM discount of thousands of $$$.
Is the cash discount still active?
To those with rattle issues, some of the same problems were exibited in the last generation of 9-3. The rattle in the moonroof is fixable by using felt tape, a trick the dealer ALREADY knows (it is the fix for the old 9-3). Not sure what to say about the doors. Best of luck to all..
1) With 16" wheels, a fully tricked out 9-3 Linear
2) A fully tricked out 9-3 Arc
3) A fully tricked out 9-5 Linear
Questions:
1) Tranny. 5 speed - Linear models vs 6 speed Arc model?
2) Engine size. How much perceptible performance improvement in Arc vs the Linears with the 210hp engine?
3) Stereo. How bad in truth is the stereo in the 9-3 Linear? Have read lots of disparaging comments about it. Not heard much about the upgraded stereo in the Arc How's it? The 9-5 Linear seems to garner pretty good reviews.
$$$ Incentives. Seems Saab is really trying to unload 9-5's. Huge incentives. Stems from the fact that they have a 134 day supply of 9-5's sitting in inventory. 9-3 Incentives are still on for July which make the price look good. No published deals on the ARC, but my dealer requoted me on same car today vs last week and it only looks like $10 more per month than a week ago. On straight cash deal I can get either a 9-3 Arc or 9-5 Linear for almost the same price. The tricked out 9-3 Linear would come in about 2.5k less. Am pretty certain I'm going the lease route due to the Saab financing rates. 0$ down, 36 months yields a payment of about $340 for 9-3L, $399 for the 9-3 Arc. Haven't calced the 9-5 L lease with extra options but it should be in the mid $300 range over 48 months.
So, what to do? I have been leaning toward the 9-3 Arc because I think performance wise it beats the other two. 9-3 models strike me as a bit more sporty with a fresher styling and feature set. Is Arc worth the extra 2k+ over the 9-3 linear?
(BTW I also learned that 94 models of 9-3 will not have the 6 speed - only 5 speed.)
question, am i the only one who prefers the simpler interior of the Linear 9-3. Nicer seats, only one color.
this would equate with previous who said only 5sp available on arc and vector...apparently the aero is only one to get the six speed now.
woulda been nice to boost hp on the vector to like 250.
i'm debating whether to get it done elsewhere or to order it to the dealer's via saabstore. any suggestions/ opinions?
Please let me know your comments.
Thanks!
Saab has tweaked the Trionic 8 engine management system to smooth power delivery.
Some of you are saying invoice +500 minus the 3K discount????
Or are we confusin MSRP and "invoice"?
Please clarify, I am anxious to pull trigger.
1. For those of you with many months of 2003 9-3 miles behind you, has your opinion changed?
2. Do the bells and whistles ring less clearly?
3. Does the performance stay as tight?
4. Reliability?
5. Comfort?
6. Do any of you LOVE your 9-3?
7. Are there options you bought but don't need?
8. Are there options you wish you had bought?
PS - New 9-3 looks are understated to say the least. This morning i saw a 9-3 but hardly noticed it - it could have been any one of the tens of honda type cars out there. It definitely does not stand out like old form. I can live with that if the "inside" and performance will keep me charmed.
PPS - looking at reviews of 9-3 and audi, there is a clear difference between the enthusiasm of owners - saab people seem to glow, while audi people spend most of their time on discalimers - "not so roomy", "not so powerful" etc.
Thanks!
Dealer says leather is protected, cleans right up, etc. I would like to think that saab thought of this before offering light interior, but who knows.
Do any of you have good/bad stories about the light colored interior after months of wear and tear????
Thanks.
1. I like the car better each road trip I take.
2. Bells & whistles are fine. I hated dash with the 1000 buttons, but I find I need to use just a few to get things down.
3. Perf is fine. I stepped up from a 97 Jetta VR6 and am quite impressed with the 4cyl turbo. I love the little turbo whine. 1st gear seems a bit weak (and the turbo gauge never goes into the red zone) but 2-5 gears seem to rock.
4. OnStar went out after a few days and I only got around to taking it to the dealer a couple of weeks ago. It only took about 5 minutes to fix. Other than that, the only issue is the terrible noises from the doors. See earlier posts about this.
5. Seats are great..I appreciate the memory on the seats. The back seat is small but I usually only have my nephews there a couple of times each month. They don't complain b/c the rear windows go all the way down.
6. Love the car. Haven't regretted the purchase at all.
7. Not really. The Vector does have terribly low ground effects in the front. It looks nice but I have to be really careful about it.
8. 6 disc would have been nice but not worth it for me. The only other major problem are the tires. I live in chicago and haven't figured out what I am going to do in the winter.
Hope this helps.
I haven't had the OnStar activated yet. I have a minor glitch in the display, where miles (dte, etc.) aren't displayed correctly. Will have that fixed when OnStar is activated.
I find the look of the car to be timeless and classy. I got the 5-speed and still find the clutch action to be, well, a little strange, but I've gotten used to it. Very minor rattles in the door frame. The car could be quieter; road noise even with 16-inch wheels is pretty high. The stereo, even with the software upgrade, is miserable.
Otherwise, I can't complain. I think, overall, this is the best car I've owned (and I've owned many). I drove everything in class and found the Saab to be the one that spoke loudest to me.
Dion
Pick it up Saturday.
Invoice minus 2500, plus they threw in various knick-knacks I picked from catalog worth a few hundred.
PS - i had the linear out for a night with sport package and noticed a huge difference in engine power, and much choppier ride w/sport suspension.
I will report back on how the car treats us.
I would have to say the TSX is on my list now, as maybe the Maxima and low end a4. BMW 3's are too spendy.
Oh and GTP?...hahahahaha NOT!
thanks
Although it may be early for me to be making recommendations - lol - I don't pick up the car for another 46 hours and 28 minutes and 14 seconds.
It really came down to the A4, Passat and Saab for me. Didn't like the Volvo at all, the BMW was very nice (probably my favorite overall) but was far too spendy. I didn't see any additional value.
I really did like the Mazda, but it's not really the same "class" of car. Fit and finish are far removed from the Saab. It feels cheaper, but it is fun to drive. I was pretty close on it, actually, but at that time (February), no one could get me even close to the car I wanted and they weren't offering decent lease rates.
I liked the Passat, but it didn't quite do it for me. I love the A4, but it's a touch small for me (I'm 6'2") and the lease rates were for four years with some out of pocket.
Once I drove the 9-3 and saw the lease rates Saab was offering at the time, the looking was over. I signed the papers the next day. I have a 3 yr/12k lease with $1k out of pocket, total payments (incl. tax) of $360 a month. I thought it was a very fair deal. Mine's steel gray w/ gray int., too, great color combo.
Dion
Feedback is welcomed. Also, feel free to pass this pointer on to others.
URL:
www-cs-students.stanford.edu/
~kpfleger/auto/sport_sedans_2003.html
As link:
Comparison
-Karl
I am curious, though, whether the comparison should have included the MB C230 Kompressor Sports Sedan. It went up against the 9-3 Arc (but not the Linear) in Motor Trend's comparo and fared quite well, at a much lower price. The interior trim is not up to a C320's but neither is a Vector's. I know you went for higher trims, but you'll find the C230K is no slouch in the C-class lineup.
Some would also argue that the new Acura TSX should be in this comparison. Though it will fall behind the 9-3 in safety, especially given the EuroNCAP scores of the European Accord.
I disagree with the projection that the 9-3 will have "above average reliability." I don't know if you can base it on the 9-5 as much, especially given how much the 9-3 is part of the "new Saab" with more GM influence than ever. There have been enough posts here that point out concerns. Frankly, I'd be happy with just "average reliability."
Some notes on the points you brought up.
- I agree that the 4-star NHTSA scores for the MB's are surprising. We'll see if the 9-3 scores the same or better.
- Please note that the Brake Assist system on the 9-3 are not as advanced as those on the other vehicles, like the MB. I think the 9-3's is purely mechanical while more advanced systems are electromechanical.
- The ESP level revision in the Ssab and Audi are one or two versions behind what's in the C-class. They're licensed from either Bosch or Continental-Teves, but I think MB gets the latest versions as part of their original development of ESP. Whether that makes much actual difference in the effectiveness of the stability control system is not known.
- Does the 9-3 have pretensioners for rear-seat occupants as well? I think some of the vehicles have them for the outboard rear passengers as well. Not a priority if you don't carry rear seat passengers, but certainly an additional safety feature if you do.
- Since you brought up some value propositions for the vehicle, you should probably include projected resale. Obviously there are no hard and fast numbers but you can start off with lease residuals first, but then compare them not to MSRP (as the residuals are based on) but acquisition cost. Unfortunately, even with deeply discounted selling prices, the 9-3 probably won't fare as well here.
- Since you also mentioned handling and various characteristics of the vehicle, you should also mention ride comfort. Some of the definition of a true sports sedan is being able to handle sharply, but still have a relatively compliant ride. Not an isolated floaty ride, but absorption of sharp bumps and lack of "business." Unfortunately, 9-3's don't do as well here (I can attest to that based on the seat of my pants), and the Linear is even worse (I'm sure you saw the comments in CR's report). Some of the other vehicles have sport suspensions yet are pretty good at removing harshness from the ride. I'd recommend a comparative series of test drives to see for yourself.
- Technically the 9-3, C-Class, E-class have EuroNCAP 5-star scores. Personally, I think in such a safety evaluation one should ignore the star ratings and go strictly with the front and side impact scores (and I'm glad you did that in your tables).
EuroNCAP has compromised their rating system with their recent use of awarding 1 or 2 points to the "crash safety" score based on having seat belt usage warning systems. To me, that's less indicative of crash performance. In fact, if one removes those extra points, there is no vehicle sold in the U.S. that meets the EuroNCAP 5-star criteria (the Volvo XC90 comes the closest, I believe, but is one point shy).
Nice comparison.
I haven't read the Motor Trend tests of a Linear (Jan) and an Arc (more recently), but I wonder whether something isn't a bit fishy with the Arc they got as a test vehicle because it pretty much got trounced by the Linear in acceleration time and didn't really do any better in their slalom test. I believe the Arc did not have the sport package, but I don't know if the Linear did. If Motor Trend tests a Vector at some point, I'll try to find time to add the numbers to the table. (Same for Road and Track. And I'd love to get the numbers from Car, the British mag, from last December, but it's hard to find back issues in local libraries and the info doesn't seem to be on-line.)
If I had infinite time, I'd make a parallel table of the lower trims with the C230, a Linear, 325, A4 1.8T, etc.
Fair enough on reliability. I backed off and changed the text just now to say at least average, which is still quite a bit better than the BMW, Audi, Merc.
Also, I agree with your comments about the EuroNCAP star system and the belt reminder being a lame way to get 2 more points. I just added a note about that in my footnote about the stars, and yes, that's why I just reported the numbers in the table.
On the issues of versions of brake assist and ESP and of ride comfort: I decided when I started to make this as objective as possible. In other words, I wanted to stick with published easily available info from uniform sources as much as possible. Things like the version of ESP are just too detailed to be reported in most places. Even if I could find it for one or two vehicles, it would be too much of pain to get it for all of them. Also, as you say, it's pretty clear that stability control is much better than not having it, but it's not clear at all that the latest version is significantly better than the last version. People can test drive and form their own opinions or read the many professional or personal road test reviews about things like ride comfort. There are no objective numbers, just point scales humans put down. I did include noise levels since objective measurements are easily available (and note that Car and Driver had quite a different experience with their Vector than Edmunds had with their early production Linear with 17" tires and no sport suspension).
-Karl
Is the Onstar service thrown in to the deal for free? I like the fact that the scheduled maintenance is.
Is the 5-speed/6-speed really that bad, ie, rubbery feeling (Edmunds review)?
What do the 15" wheels look like? The build your own SAAB on their website is not working for the 9-3 today.
THanks in advance.
I have purchased a 03 saab 9-3 vector in Canada [that's where I live :)lol] but I have to move to Europe [Hungary] 'cause of my work for a couple of years and I wonder if my car is going to be covered by the warranty. I contacted gm Canada but they're not "dealing with a full deck" nobody was able to answer my question.
I wonder if any of you can help me out with some info...
Sorry for the long posting but I would appreciate all the help I could get with this issue.
Thanks again!!!
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$299 mo./36 mo
$1,499 due at lease inception
(includes down pmt., sec. dep.,
acq. fee & first mo. pmt.)
$350 disposition fee
Residency restrictions apply to NY and RI residents.
Subject to credit approval. Delivery must be taken out of participating dealer inventory by July 31, 2003. Dealer financial participation may affect consumer cost. Residency restrictions apply. *Terms apply to a new 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sport Sedan with manual transmission based on MSRP of $26,670.00. Lease payment for the Saab 9-3 Linear Sport Sedan is $298.92 for 36 months, totaling $10,761.12. Option to purchase at lease end for $14,135.10 (plus taxes, insurance, title and registration fees). Customer is liable for a mileage charge of $.20 per mile over 30,000 miles and for excess wear and tear. §RI residents: $1,904 due at lease inception. Program unavailable to NY residents. NY residents: see dealer for other attractive programs. †Lease a new 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sport Sedan and receive No Charge Scheduled Maintenance for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first, provided the service is completed within 1,000 miles of the recommended service interval. This program is subject to discontinuance at any time. Call 1 800 SAAB USA for important program details and limitations. SEE YOUR PARTICIPATING SAAB DEALER FOR COMPLETE DETAILS ON THIS AND OTHER LEASE AND FINANCE PROGRAMS. © 2003 SAAB CARS USA, INC.
The lease deal is based on the MSRP, but in fact you can get a bit lower if you negotiate a sales discount from the dealer. Also, Saab is providing a $1000 cash incentive back to the dealer on Saab leases, which you should get the dealer to reduce the cap cost by. Actual lease calc's for the 9-3 L are money factor .00047 for a 12k miles per yearlease and resdiual of 52% OF the MSRP.
Reagarding the ARC, Saab isn't publishing an official lease offer, but here's what you should get. On 1 12k mile per year lease, money factor of .00050 and residyal of 52% of MSRP. Saab is giving a dealers a $2000 incentive payment for leases which should reduce the cap cost by that much.
These numbers were confirmed by Carman for me and also have been substantiated with my local dealer. Bottom line is that you can get a whale of a lease deal on a Saab. 10K mile per year yield residuals 1% higher, lowering the payments slightly from the 12k mile per year leases.
Onstar, basic service, is incuded for 1 year at no charge. Also, if you didn't know, Saab includes all scheduled maintenance for 3 years/36,000 miles. Sweet.
Can't answer your other questions as I have only test driven the Arc with 16" wheels and 6 speed. Sweet car. Sweet lease deal.
$850 is way too much for what you get in my opinion. If anyone has heard of other options, please advise.
Plus, the 30K mile maintenace is really comprehensive and would normally cost a few hundred bucks
http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_SAA/doc_saa0211051/c- ms/news/newsarticle.html
Depreciation: $12700
Finance Charge: $779
Total Sales Tax: $674 (5%)
Monthly Payment: $374.43 + $18.72 tax
Total Lease Cost: $14153
Same lease as above except with 36/12000
$366.24 + $18.31 tax for a monthly payment of $384.55
Due on signing would be first months payment, security deposit (automdically waivered ONLY if your credit rating is over 700), license and title.