Saab 9-3 Sedan

Jack44 · November 2002

Please explain...Is that just for the Linear or also for the Vector...

hungshy · November 2002

Srry I have this question for sander1128. If your quote come from invoice price and 1000 rebate? Thanks

wilkich · November 2002

Beemer rage is real. I owned a '99 3 series and someone kicked it in the first month. It was great car but I gave it up as I lived in SF and I never drove it. Moved to the burbs and test drove the new 9-3 and the C-class last week. 9-3: Nice car, great acceleration, loved the dash and big trunk. The C-class actually seemed cheaper on the inside and was smaller. It did feel more solid and stiff on the freeway but certainly not worth 10k extra. I plan to head back and take out a 9-3 with the sport package and look at the A4. I think the new saab could be a great choice if pure driving fun is not your only consideration. Despite the great press, I'm still leary about the GE ownership thing.

logic1 · November 2002

Either you meant GM or General Electric did some big time asset grabbing this afternoon : )

simon97 · November 2002

..and Im in the same quandry. Truth is I loved everything about the G35. It came stacked at a cost of $35K, nice trunk, large back seat, 260hp!, and I even liked the way it looked. Here's what I didnt like, at 6'2" I found the driver's space very cramped. When I stepped on the gas I thought I was in the IRL. I couldnt sprad out my legs, arms were too close together..you get the picture. And although there were so many "pros", I couldnt get past the one "con"...I didnt love the way it drove (dont get me wrong, I liked it but it didnt "wow" me). Right now Im about to give up my '00 328i. I LOVE that car. It handles so well, the drive is very tight. The g35 is like driving a Maxima or Altima. Its fine, but if you're buying like me, i want something I love.

Truth is, I was all set to buy it until I walked into the Saab dealer. The difference there was that I love the way the 9-3 drove. Im going to wait for the ARC to come out in Jan/Feb 03. It has the bigger engine (210hp) and it comes standard with all the bells and whistles that I want. Compared to the 330I, which is unfotunately too small for me (and the kid) now, it should come in 6K less. Im actually happy about the FWD, because the BMW is awful in the snow and rain. Just awful. I was also afraid I'd have the same probs with the G35 RWD.

As far as the Road & track Article, be careful what you read. If you go to the specific stats, the BMW beat the G35 in every important category. The last category which was a "Best car for the $$" question, was overly weighted (a 200pt question) which brought the G35 slightly ahead of the BMW.

rgc2200 · November 2002

i'm taller than you, and feel very comfortable in the 9-3. i don't even need the seat all the way back! the door arm rest just runs out of space, and sometimes I find my left elbow on the window sill instead of the door arm rest. tons of head room. i didn't like the looks of the infiniti, and suspected it would drive like a lexus or accura. . which my wife likes. i love the saab's drive, and unless there is over 8" snow, it'll get you around with the 16" (doubt thats true of the 17") the first bmw I almost bought, asked about how it handled in the snow/ice and the salesman tried to sell me chains. i went right to the saab dealer and haven't looked back. . .

mjmorrow · November 2002

Well apparently there is a booster kit that you can get for the Saab's. It didn't say anything about only avaliable on a specific model, so that leads me to believe you can put it on any of them. But I;m not sure if it avaliable right now but I saw some information at the dealer about it. It is some kit that the dealer installs and it gives the care some 30 additional hps and increases torque by about 19lbs. I guess it is the same kit that you could buy for last years model. To me I think it would be a good investment. The price on the brochure was 750.00, not sure what labor is. Hope this helps. But like I said not sure if it is being offered yet, I was just reading a brochure at the dealer.

Also just so you all know about having a better stereo system. I went to Circuit City last night and said the only thing they could do is put a sub woofer box that was really big in the trunk to give the car better sound. They said that adding 2 more 6x9's in the back wouldn't do anything more, and would sound just like the speakers there now. I am going to go to a audio speciality shop and see what they say. Guess I might have to wait and see if Saab offers an upgrade when the other models come out.

Jack44 · November 2002

Thanks for the follow up...More hp is always good...Also, you would think that a 300 watt stereo would give good sound...

fedlawman · November 2002

Before you upgrade your sound systems, give the stock speakers a good month to "break in."

Just like good home audio equipment, your speakers will not sound their best until they have had a solid 48 hours of high (not ear splitting) volume playing.

Once broken in, the speakers will sound less shrill and the bass will be noticeably tighter.

oldsman01 · November 2002

I've never heard of breaking speakers in. I usually crank mine as soon as I hook them up or as soon as I take delivery of the car. I'm assuming everyone who has complained about the sound quality has adjusted the bass and treble. The reason I ask is a co-worker bought a late model Infiniti which she said had the Bose system but said it sounded horrible. I checked it out and the bass was at it's factory(center) setting and the treble had actually been turned down. I turned the treble almost all the way up and increased the bass a bit and it was like a whole new audio system. Are the 9-3's rear speakers 6x9s? If so, thats an easy fix for me as I've got a pair of JBL 3 way 6x9s

wishnhigh1 · November 2002

a 9-5 Aero with the touring package on Ebay. Did not recieve a single bid.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872178219

Could it be that the new 9-3 is so good that the 9-5 Aero is being discounted on the scale of $6000 dollars and STILL not selling?

dindak · November 2002

Looking at a 9-5 and 9-3 sitting beside each other, I don't notice a lot of difference in size.

rgc2200 · November 2002

heard from a saab salesman that they are about to (or have) discounted the launch package $1000. and are offering a new incentive in addition to the 0 down, 0% apr for 36 months on 9-3's. if true, i'll join the "missed opportunity" discussion. anyone hear anything??? my salesman didn't return my call. IF Saab discounted an option package 3 weeks after the release of the car, would they rebate it to past buyers? how many of us can be out there??? I know, i'm dreaming. will check with my dealer in the morning.
by the way. .several bmw owners in my lot have stopped me to check out my 9-3. they think its much bigger looking then their 3 series, and were shocked at the size of the trunk
. I never heard of speakers "breaking in" either. the inside of a 9-5 seems bigger then the 9-3.

cb22 · November 2002

I drove the new 9.3 last night. I give it high marks. Great feel for a smaller sedan. Most importantly, it was very comfortable to drive. I'm about 6'3, and there was more room in it than I have in the drivers seat of my Ford Explorer. Seats fit body well. Great acceleration - not much lag at all. Did not get a real good shot at it, as salesman was in passengers seat.

Couple of questions, any ideas?
- Will GM extend the term of 0% to 48 or 60 in the near future?

- How long until more base models will show up on the lot? Right now they all seem to have all options, many of which, I'd rather not pay for. In my opinion, the car is sufficiently "loaded" at the base model.

Thanks in advance to any responders.

johnxyz · November 2002

Is the '02 I-4 turbo a higher quality / better engineered engine than that in the new '03? Is its also used in a Saturn? Where did Saab source the I-4 that went into the Viggen?

Should I look for an '02 instead?

Thanks, John

sander1228 · November 2002

Yes, I was quoted 29,794 excluding the 1000 rebate (w/your own financing). The total being 28,794.
The car has Launch, heated seats, 17 inch wheels (swapped) and auto. Non-metallic color.

sander1228 · November 2002

To start, I had the fader set 100% to the rear speakers w/the bass turned all the way up. There is no way "breaking them in" is going to produce bass a month later. There is no bass from the rear. I wrote to Saab asking for the specs on the system. Another dealer told me that the 300 watt system is substantially more. You're right, upgrading the rear speakers may not do a thing. Right now, there are not many options an replacing the stereo with a non-factory item would make for silly-looking aesthetics on the dash. I still don't understand how this could be overlooked or passed up. There are cars which price at 20k with better stock systems...

shades80 · November 2002

I to thought the stereo was weak but after a few weeks it has inproved or i have gotten used to it..the best way to describe my exp with the system is that the sound feels far away from the driver..you dont feel the music all around you..maybe its the location of the speakers..im not an expert but i have adjusted it almost every time in the car and i think i have found the right pitch from the speakers...has any one asked the dealer if the 300 watt/13 speaker set up that will be on the arc/vector can be upgraded on the linear? How much?

dudleyr · November 2002

Speakers do need to break in. The surrounds become more flexible and the woofer will have greater excursion once it is broken in.

Jack44 · November 2002

Bass, Bass, Bass...You guys need to try salmon!

oldsman01 · November 2002

When do the Arc and Vector become available in the states?

cb22, I'm too looking for a more lightly equipped 9-3. The touring package and maybe heated seats are really all I want.

hungshy · November 2002

I asked question about the $1000 launch package discount. Got answer from them. They said the discount comes from Saab and only give away when the dealer sell certain amount of car w/ launch package. So hopely the car we buy from dealer which sell lots of car. But we can get $1000 cut if we have our own car loan.
Also thanks sander1228 to answer my question.

oldsman01 · November 2002

So dealers who sell a certain number of 9-3s with the luanch package can give you a $1000 discount? I might consider one with the launch package if this is the case.

rgc2200 · November 2002

boy, this doesn't sound fair to those who helped those dealers sell 9-3's, and bought without a discount!

magnetophone · November 2002

If it's a factory rebate then it doesn't affect them...

s_ghost · November 2002

Does anyone know the color of the new photos of the 9-3 linear?

phoenexius · November 2002

The I4 used in the 2003 Saab is different from previous models. It is now aluminum. Saab has always been known for producing great engines.
It is not the exact same engine used in Saturns, that one is little bit smaller (87 cubic centimeters), and not turbocharged.

The Saabs also have the Trionic engine management system which is far superior to the Saturn engine management. The 2003 Trionic-8 is better than the Trionic used in the 2002 model (as far as I know, don't have specific details, for some reason Saab won't tell me their secrets)

The 2.3 turbo I4 is found in the Saab 9-5, it was rated to 230 hp in the Viggen, 250 hp in the 9-5 Aero and 185 hp in the 9-5 Linear for 2002.

If you are looking to buy a Saab the 2003 9-3 is the one to go for. Go drive both model years and see for yourself.

Jack44 · November 2002

Been told Arc and Vector will be at dealers late February or early March...

mooselook · November 2002

I picked up my new Laser Red 2003 9-3 Friday afternoon. Vehicle is equipped with Launch, Touring Package, heated (grey leather) seats and 16 in. wheels. As all reviews are somewhat subjective, FYI, my point of reference is my prior vehicle, a 1999 Audi A-4 2.8L 6Cyl Quattro.
First impression upon seeing car waiting for me at dealership is that the 9-3 in Laser Red really kicks Butt! What a great looking car!
I was so excited about this car that I had trouble sleeping Friday night(and I'm not a kid anymore, I'm 47 years old!).
Anyway, after running around in the rain all weekend, here are my first impressions:
Fit and finish on exterior is excellent. Vehicle seems to be well engineered and put together. Fit and finish on interior is also excellent, though not quite up to Audi standards. Although I'm certainly not disappointed, there are a few minor "nits". I wish there were more "soft touch" surfaces, such as top of dash, etc. These are currently made out of a hard plastic material. To the right of the parking brake lever, there is an odd plastic cover that can be removed and replaced if you purchase an optional CD or cup holder. This particular piece seems cheap. Overall though, interior is a nice place to be. Dash layout is very cool and aircraft-like. Guages are well laid out, clear and readable. They glow a soft green, much better than the Audi's red.
The "Infotainment" center (stereo) is not really bad at all. Even though there have been a number of complaints on this board, I'd rate it less than great, but certainly not bad. All the bass is generated up front. The rear speakers in the rear deck are small and produce no bass. Overall, the sound is good. I have no great urge to upgrade it. It's not quite up to the Audi's system, but not that far behind either. Plus, it does more, such as traffic reports, integration with On Star, etc.
The seats are far superior to the German seats. You tend to sit "on" the Audi seats, whereas the Saab seats seem to embrace you. They are great.
The 2.0 liter 4 cylinder engine is unbelievable. This motor produces a lot of low end torque and seems to be willing to rev as high as you're willing to go. This engine is smooth as silk and very quiet. Until you get used to the clutch, turn the stereo off! Honda is always cited for their eerily smooth "sewing machine-like" engines, but I'd put this engine up against the best they have to offer any day. This is a great engine. I think it's better than the 6 in the Audi and seems to have more low end urge and better gas mileage to boot. This car is faster than the Audi (and the Audi has a 5 cylinder).
The handling of this car is excellent. Again, I really think it outhandles the Audi. It seems to be more nimble and it corners flatter. (This with the 16-in wheels...don't waste your money on the 17's, particularly if you live where there is snow...)
The 5 speed manual is an excellent trans. It shifts smoothly and surely. Clutch takeup is progressive and among the best I've driven.
So far, there have been no surprises or glitches to ruin my new-car fun. The only negative has been the fact that the extra remote (Saab-speak for "key") is missing the Saab emblem. Dealer promised to make good...The only other oddities are that the dealer is not sure about the service intervals, as the vehicle incorporates algorythms to tell you when it is due. But, they were clear about the 30 day service where they check a bunch of stuff. Saab recommends 0-W -30 oil, which I found strange, never having heard of it before this car. They recommend 90 octane gas.
So, overall, I'm still ecstatic about this car and would recommend it to anyone wanting a sport sedan. I think this is a great value.
Well, I'm glad that Edmunds doesn't limit space on these posts, as I surely have used up my fair share. I'll be checking back to see what you all think, and I'll post an update after I have some more experience under my belt.
---*** Mooselook ***---

mooselook · November 2002

Audi has a 6 cylinder, not a 5. The "5" key is a little too close to the "6" key!!

magnetophone · November 2002

Also, the Saab has 2.2 four-cylinder, not a 2.0... but that's a small error

dindak · November 2002

Congrats on the new wheels. Sounds like you are happy with your car.

Keep up updated, it's much appreciated.

phoenexius · November 2002

Isn't it 1988 cc (121 cu in)?
Which is the same as recent model 2.0 liter engines. Based on the 1985 cc engine that debuted in 1972, maybe?

I've only seen one report (velocity journal) of it being 2171 cc (and I'm pretty sure they are wrong).

phoenexius · November 2002

For all you owners,

How does the car feel and handle on gravel roads?

My 2001 is decent, the steering feedback gets interesting when going 50 mph in gravel. I feel that rear end wants to swing around on you at any moment. Odd because I haven't felt it in other fwd cars (with less steering feedback) until a bit faster. By no means a rallye car.

jdisan · November 2002

Just test drove (again) the G35 and the Saab...these are two cars that on paper easily lead you to the G35. But, the reason I test drove these two twice, and nearly 30 days apart, is that it allowed me to get a feeling for what car you will want to live with. The first look and drive are always exciting and you end up wanting to buy the car you just drove. Don't do it if you can, and take a step back. I was nearly ready to order the G35 with a 6 speed when the back to back drives made it clear that the Saab will be my choice (albeit the ARC/Vector when introduced in March-According the the Dealer). Infiniti -while fast as hell and fun to drive-does not have any "soul". The interior is nothing special and you do not feel any attachment to the car (emotional that is) when driving. Physically it is great - and looks good from the outside..but when inside you feel as though you are in a high end (at the time) 1995 Japanese sedan.

The Saab, on the other hand, I noticed after spending more time in it..you actually want to spend more time in it. You wear this car like a fine tailored suit. Similar feel to my old Audi A4 and current Audi A6 Turbo. No the interior is not as high quality as the Audi's, but its pretty close and SEVERAL notches above the G35. Plus the cockpit style dash is great without being as overpowering as it is in the 9-5. It is also full of the latest 2003 technology - its all around you. Maybe you won't use much of it, but if I am buying a new car I want the very latest tech - BMW and Audi are great at providing this..Infinity falls way short (there was not even a simple trip computer). I also drove the new Audi A4 and while a wonderful car, is simply a smaller version of the A6 I currently drive (the A6 came out first and then new A4 is a mirror image inside and out but on a reduced scale.) So while a great car - nothing new there to excite (the 3.0 is also several thow more than the 9-3, the 1.8t can't compete in performace)

The other thing I will do, when it comes time to buy..is call the internet sales guy and conduct the trasaction over the phone. When I went in to look at the 9-3, the Saab dealer tried desperately to sell me a Saab 9-5 Aero - to the point of telling me that the new 9-3 "made him cry" when it came out. He also said it was a dresssed up Honda and not worth the money and that the 9-5 is the only true Saab, and that the 9-3 felt as though it would snap in half when hit (this was during the test drive!). This guy should be fired. Joke. I drove the 9-5 at his beckoning and while fast, I can see why it always finishes in the middle of the pack against the competition. It's that type of car. Very good - not great.

Oh, I did learn that because of the On-star scew up on the 9-3, they will be giving two years for free plus 200 minuets vs. one year when it becomes available.

OK, one last point..besides the on-star thing noted above - ever notice that no matter what car you are buying--you always seem to know alot more about it than the salesman? Maybe they should visit their own web-site every now and again.

magnetophone · November 2002

The new 9-3 has a 2.2, I don't know about the current one.

jdisan · November 2002

this should help clear things up on the engine specs..for the 2003 9-3.

http://media.gm.com/division/2003_prodinfo/03_saab/03_93/specifications.html

logic1 · November 2002

Good points.

That salesperson is a joke! The new 9-3 is clearly going to steal sales from the 9-5.

Most likely GM and the dealership have given the salespeople all sorts of incentives to move the 9-5. The 9-3 is selling itself, so the salesperson won't get anything over the basic commission.

The fleet salespeople have to get on the phone and move the 9-5s en masse to the corporate buyers and the rental agencies. Until the new 9-5 comes out, the only 9-5 that will sell in any numbers to individual buyers will be the wagon.

In the meantime, the salesperson better get used to the fact that a lot of people think the new 9-3 is what Saab is all about.

jdisan · November 2002

this should help clear things up on the engine specs..for the 2003 9-3.

http://media.gm.com/division/2003_prodinfo/03_saab/03_93/specifications.html

phoenexius · November 2002

sorry guys there is one thing I forgot
The european spec engines are:
1.8 liter turbo (110 kiloWatt)
2.0 liter turbo (129 kiloWatt)
2.0 liter Turbo (154 kiloWatt)
and of course
2.2 liter turbo injected diesel (92 kiloWatt)

If you really want to know 1 kiloWatt = 1.34 horsepower (well close to it)

hungshy · November 2002

The information I provided before for $1000 discount. I got answer from Saab USA they didnt admit it. But Dealer told me that information just come out last Friday. So I still don't know what's going on there. Sorry for not so correct information.

hungshy · November 2002

Sorry for message again. $1000 off if you provide your own finanical program still count. But for Launch package discount you can't get it right now. Better get your own car loan first before you see car dealer. try to get it as low as possible. car dealer will always match what you get.

jdisan · November 2002

...two dealers also mentioned that while there are none now, additional discounts/incentives from GM on all "forms" will become available in the early spring with the Arc/Vector introduction and marketing push. Arc in arrives in late March, Vector in April. Production on these starts in early January supposedly. If you noticed..there are now ALOT of Linears on the lots now in virtually every color, so doesn't look like their is a mad rush for these cars or that they are moving them that fast. Thus the spring incentives.

learn2fly · November 2002

Anybody wants to make comments on where does Saab came up with these trim names? Guesses? Mathematical reasons?

robr2 · November 2002

...they are all architectural terms. Why they chose those, you'll have to ask their marketing team.

logic1 · November 2002

I know the Swedish have a great modern architectural tradition. Whether this plays into their car sales thought process is anyone's guess.

oldsman01 · November 2002

I agree with you on the G35, it's all about numbers. This seems to be typical with most Japanese cars as they produce good numbers on paper, but no real emotional attraction. Maybe thats why I've never owned one. I haven't driven a 9-3 yet, but sat in one at an auto show recently and found the driving position nearly perfect. And this while being unable to adjust the seat as the battery was disconnected. In fact, the 9-3, Volvo S80, and Cadillac STS(at over $50K!) had the most comfortable seats of any car I sat in at the expo. Local dealer now has 3 on the lot, two are black and one is silver. The one I saw at the show was the Cosmic blue and that was a sharp color indeed. As for you knowing more than your salesperson, that doesn't surprise me. I typically know more than the sales people when looking at cars. What is sad it that if it wasn't for all the "hustling" that goes with the job, I'd probably be a pretty good sales person. I certainly could have sold myself my current car better than the salesman did. I've never had a salesman talk bad about another product he sells though. I'd almost be tempted to contact the sales manager at the dealer and tell him how your rep "trashed" the 9-3 and tried to steer you to a 9-5. My guess is commission on 9-5s is higher as the 9-3 is not only a lower priced car, but it also has a much lower margin than the 9-5 does as well as past 9-3s.

oldsman01 · November 2002

Any word if an aero version of the 9-3 is in the works?

rgc2200 · November 2002

congrats on your car, which is identical to mine, except color. i echo your thoughts. it is a fun car to drive. the infinity-accura-cadillac-volvo-240 series thing is about driving a unique different car. my wife had a 5 speed accura legend and i hated the soft, plush "feminine" (sorry) drive. this saab gives you the feeling of being different, in the cockpit of a vehicle (not plush transportation) plus an unbelieveable drive for front wheel/185 hp. only a beemer tops it, and as we've discussed too many of those around, and you need all wheel. in the 9-3 the standard helps. my only "regret" is after paying for launch, touring, heated seats and getting a minimal discount (though 0 apr for 36 months helps) I suspect the Arc this spring could be cheaper, and has everything my vehicle has plus the 210hp, 300watt stereo. no need for any options in this car. If my 9-3 wasn't coming off lease, I would have waited. Everyone is right. . the linear is not flying off the lot. Look at the time of year, economy etc. I feel bad for 9-5 owners as I never really liked the drive of that car (i got them all the time as loaners, and drove them hard for the day) didn't feel like a saab. you can get those real cheap, especially the left over 2002 arcs.

regfootball · November 2002

linear vs. ......cyclical?
arc vs..... weld? (Neil Young fans)
vector vs. raster?

Saab 9-3 Sedan

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