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Saab 9-3 Sedan

17810121366

Comments

  • mooselookmooselook Member Posts: 68
    Well, I'm into my second week as a 9.3 owner and I have to say, looking forward to the drive takes some of the edge off of having to get up and go to work in the morning. I am loving this car!
    Question for previous Saab owners (rgc2200??): The owner's manual says not to wash this car or take it through a car wash for "3 or 4 months". Only to rinse with a brush that has water flowing through it. Also, no waxing for 3 or 4 months. All this, under the guise of allowing the paint to harden.
    I've read that new cars have their paint applied at high temperature and that they are totally cured and hardened by the time they leave the factory (at least that's what Meguier's, the wax manufacturer says...) Now certainly Saab must know more about the cars they build than a car wax manufacturer does, but 3 to 4 months to wait for a wash!!! It's going to be a LONG winter. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone go totally crazy yet and wash their new Saab with...CAR WASH?

    ***Mooselook
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    GM wants Saab to up sales to 200k, so it is not likely it will let quality dealers escape. The financial problems at Saab are more the function of duplicate bureaucracy and expensive exclusive vendor agreements.

    GM is working to meld back office work with Opel and put Saab even more into its global purchasing. The latter is the trickiest thing for GM/Saab as no one wants Saabs to be too close to Opel and Saturns.
  • joeandcarol2joeandcarol2 Member Posts: 152
    Anyone know the gear ratios (and final drive ratio) for the 5 and 6 speed manuals?
  • passagepassage Member Posts: 3
    Can anyone help me with a price for a 2001 9-3???
    I've been offered a 2001 9-3 with
    automatic trans
    leather
    heated seats
    very very clean
    28k miles
    runs clean and sweetily (I think...)

    for $18,700. This took some doing on my part.
    The car has 2 yrs of orig warranty remaining; plus 2 yrs/50K miles of certified used saab warranty.

    is this a good deal? what am I missing?

    Thanks
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    I also shared your concerns, but the car impressed me enough to take the chance. On the plus side, the new 9-3 has been well reviewed and articles have said Saab expects to nearly double sales, worldwide. One reason given for the late arrival of Arc and Vector models was high demand in Europe.

    Here in Atlanta, Kelley Saab pulled out last year, but Jim Ellis has two new dealerships here that seem excellent in terms of sales experience that I had.

    I really think that the problems in the past were caused by having old models that needed updating to stay at the cutting edge, and prices that were too high compared to the merits of the cars vs. the competition.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    Try takemypayments.com as a starting point. I know there are others out there. Try a web search with "lease trade" or "assume lease"
  • rgc2200rgc2200 Member Posts: 37
    That is a very reasonable price on a 01 9-3, with lots of options. Thats a fair # of miles for 2 years, and I'd just make sure the service was done, (you'll get stuck with the 30K service, which if done properly might run 5-600$). To me, frequent oil/filter changes is the most important service done to a new car. if you are suspicious of anything, bring the car to a reliable foreign car mechanic for a check over. I've done it before, and its well worth it.
    moose, my friend, I also saw that warning, and it made me chuckle too. First of all, most new car washes are done with soft cloth/sponge like material, and lots of water pressure that don't put alot of abrasive force on the car. I'm going to talk to my service manager, who has rarely steered me wrong, and with all their experience they'd know if any cars have ever been damaged by a car wash. On my 2 week anniversary, with clear weather in the forcast for at least 5 days, I hand washed mine with a big, automobile sponge, cotton towels (no soap) and it looks great. The wheels took me a while. RGH: Saab has had financial troubles before. I believe GM is committed to the company, and especially the new 9-3. Dealerships may compress, but I think it would take a major disaster/bankrupcy to close down saab totally. just my opinion. any owners hear anything re: onstar availability for installation?
  • tennbergtennberg Member Posts: 45
    Hi everyone,

    Wow, brucec35, thanks for the detailed info! You went into a lot of detail, and have given me a lot to think about. Let me add some more thoughts and see what I get in return.
    To make a long story short, I probably would've leased a different car back in 2000 but just liked the S80 because of the styling and safety features. I just kind of fell into the lease without thinking too much and regret that some days. After close to 3 years of driving it, I am ready to move to a sportier car, one better suited for my age. What I do enjoy about the Volvo, first and foremost, is that I know that if I get in an awful accident, I know my chances of walking away from it in one piece are high because of the number of airbags, the WHIPS seats, the crumple zones, etc. I guess this car makes both my mother and myself sleep better at night.
    However, the car is a bit too large for my needs and I am looking for something that has a bit more sex appeal (me being only 24). Here are my thoughts on the cars I am looking at.
    Audi: I am still deciding on the 1.8T, the 3.0, and whether or not to do quattro. Of the 3 (Ar, 3 Series, and 9-3), I find the A4 the most conservatively designed. It is sexy, but in a subtle way. Its interior ranks next to the Saab's, with the BMW's way behind (rather plain looking for such a costly car). I found the A4 as roomy as the 9-3, and cavernous when compared to the 325i. A lot of what I think during test drives will be based on my current car. The 1.8T engine is of equivalent HP to the S80, but the car is much lighter, making me think the car will act much quicker. However, I am not sure if it will seem underpowered when compared to the 3.0. In addition, I am not sure what effect quattro will have on the speed and handling.
    BMW: The styling of the 3 Series, I believe, can't be touched. It is sexy, classy, and sporty, all in one. Of the 3, it is the smallest car, and shows when sitting inside. During the recent auto show here in Boston, my roommate made the comment that BMW wants you to feel like you are a part of the car. *scratches head* Anyway, being 6'2", it was the tightest fit of the 3. The interior leaves much to be desired, especially in a car of this price. I know that the driving and handling can't match the A4 or 9-3, but the cost leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.
    Saab: I've always found the 9-5 to be the most beautiful car on the streets, and it is nice to see a lot of this in the new 9-3. My heart skips a beat seeing these cars on the road. I just love the styling. The interior is on par with the A4 and miles ahead of the BMW. The Linear model is a bit too basic, so I am thinking of leaning toward the Arc trim. Again, being 6'2", I fit nicely into this car, as I did in the A4. One big concern is that this car was done under the umbrella of GM, and long-term reliability is a key issue. I know the A4 and 3 Series have had more years to work out reliability issues.
    What I am looking for in a car, after having been in an S80 for almost 3 years, are the following (in no specific rank or order): reliability, safety (as safe as the S80), handling, comfort (being 6'2), price (not looking to pay MSRP or higher). I know that none of these cars is going to have all of these aspects. I just want a car that I will love driving, that won't be in the shop besides oil changes and check-ups, and will just be a joy to own.
    Thanks for the suggestions in advance.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    Anyone in the know have any sense of Perillo's committment to Saab? Their Chicago dealership is pretty dumpy (though I'm not particularly concerned about that), and with Saab's financial troubles, I'm wondering if Perillo is going to keep their dealership. (I know there are other, better, suburban dealers, but unfortunately, they are too far away from my home and work to be realistic for me....)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    GM will no let Saab die anytime soon. In fact it's getting money pumped in for new product. It can't come soon enough as the product line is far too small. I suspect once Saab gets their SUV, a new 9-5 and perhaps a small car (that's the rumor), sales will pick up big time assuming new product is anything like the 9-3.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Again, Saab's financial troubles concern administrative issues in Europe and have no real effect on dealerships in the US.

    Perillo is cramped for space at the Diversy lot where it sells Saab and Lincoln/Mercury. Most likely, it will sell that lot to housing developers and combine Saab with its BMW operations closer downtown.

    But I know from the Perillo salespeople that they have sold more than 10 9-3s already, with little advertising. The car is being received well in Chicago. There is no reason for Perillo to stop carrying what is selling.
  • firephoenix777firephoenix777 Member Posts: 59
    May I ask which BMW you owned? If it's the 3-series, what year and how would you compare it against your 9-3 Linear in terms of ride/handling in normal weather & condition? Is the ride bumpy or comfortable in both cars? I like the Vector but worry about the ride of those "sport suspension" they use. I believe the Linear might have a softer suspension for a more comfortable ride than the BMW?
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    A journalist with a major newspaper wants to talk with consumers who've bought entry-lux cars (e.g. BMW 3, Mercedes c-coupe, Jag X-type, Audi a4, etc) in the last year, ideally buyers who were new to the luxury brands, to talk about how they like their cars and why they bought them. Please respond asap by Wednesday, December 4 to jfallon@edmunds.com with the type of vehicle and approximate amount you paid for it. Thanks!
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Has anyone read Edmund's review of the 9-3? They seem to like the car, but I didn't come away with the impression they loved it. Of coarse, I've never put much stock in their reviews anyway. Several things they did complain about were the automatic tranmission and the audio system's lack of bass. The overall opinion seemed to be the new 9-3 is far superior to the old one, but waiting for the Arc and Vector might be the order of the day. Their review said those models will have a 13 speaker 300 watt sound system among other things. Also, their acceleration tests had the automatic Linear doing 0-60 in 8.1 seconds and 1/4 mile in 16.2. Not bad for a 175 hp four and I would imagine and manual would be quicker. For me though, I'm wondering if waiting a few months for the Arc wouldn't be a bad idea. An extra 35 hp never hurts and I certainly want a decent audio system. BTW, does anyone know if the Arc and Vector will offer XM radio? Also, are both the Arc and Vector going to have a 6 speed manual or just the high end model?
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    From Edmunds review: With a couple of screens already on the dash, some of you might wonder why a navigation system is not on the options list. A nav system is available in the European market, but Saab has not yet decided whether to offer it in the U.S. for 2004. We suspect that its omission has something to do with limited consumer interest; a J.D. Power survey released last year found that less than one percent of 2001 model year vehicles were equipped with nav systems. And Saab, a company that deals in smaller volumes, likely cannot afford to peddle an unpopular option.

    Is this really true? I want Nav!
  • firephoenix777firephoenix777 Member Posts: 59
    "but Saab has not yet decided whether to offer it in the U.S. for 2004."

    They haven't decided yet. Hope they do offer it here. Regarding those JD Power surveys, I hope they don't survey those cars that don't offer Nav as an option.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I never owned a 3 series, but did have a '97 540i auto/ w sport suspension added and replaced that with a '98 540i sport 6 speed that was in better shape cosmetically and a better color (artic silver vs. montreal blue). I did test drive 4 different 3 series cars (325, 325 sport, 330 sport, 325 coupe sport). The 5 feels heavier, of course, but overall, the BMWs give slightly better road "feel", meaning you feel like you can tell exactly what your tires are doing. But they are also smooth riding generally. The 5's have less body roll than the 3's, imo. With the sport package you could hear some tire noise, but it never felt loud. Neither Saab nor BMW is Lexus like quiet and isolated, but I consider that a good thing.

    I consider both the Saab and BMW's to have a great combination of ride and handling. The Saab is really fun to drive, especially with the optional sport wheel/suspension package. When you factor in that a 3 y/o BMW cost me more than I'm driving a new 9-3 out for, I think the Saab gives 90% of the driving experience for a lot less money. Also, I'm frankly just tired of BMW's and the "stuff" that goes along with owning one. I also like that the 9-3 "feels" smaller than it is, even though it has interior room within an inch in most dimensions of the 5 series BMW.

    I live in Georgia and so don't drive in snow more than once a year or so. We drove it last winter in snow and the traction control light was flashing but we didn't have any problems at slow speeds.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    My understanding is 6 speed manual on the Arc and Vector.

    I am also unclear about the stereo on Linear models with the launch package. Edmunds goes on and on about it only being the Infotainment 1 system, but the Saabusa.com website says it is Infotainment 2. I dont' have an audiophile's ears, so I only tested it briefly. Ours is in transit from another city, and I won't pick it up till this weekend. It should say on the sticker, I assume. I also notice that Saab is now calling it "Entertainment 1/2". But whatever the test cars had, they sounded decent to me.

    The auto transmission felt slightly less smooth than the BMW's, but that's the best I've ever driven. But it felt superior in terms of response to that of the Infiniti G35, which has more hesitation to kickdown. For a 4 cylinder turbo, I thought it had very smooth, immediate power. A little more engine noise than the BMW inline 6, but again, that one is the best.

    Finally, I read one review on the web from another country that said expect the 210 hp units to reach 60mph .5 seconds faster.

    My question is....anyone know of a place to look in the future for Saab turbo "chips" to boost up to the Arc/Vector .80 bar?
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    I agree on the 6 speed.

    Try Hirsch for power upgrade. They are a Czech company and have taken the old 2.0 turbo 205-hp Aero (Euro model) and given it 280-hp and 400 Nm torque (more than just a chip upgrade, I think). If the new engine/turbo can handle the pressure/heat get the 6 speed and you should be able to do this.
    www.saab-performance.com
    www.hirsch-performance.ch
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    The new 9-3 received 5 stars in the Euro NCAP tests.

    http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm (see latest results)

    Just don't get hit by one if you're walking across the street. (one star of possible 4)


    I think that the Saab can give you all but the assurance of reliablity. The last 5 years of Saabs have been pretty good and their customer commitment is better than most manufacturers.

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Can any Saab owners out there tell me what servicing costs are like for their current 9-3 or 9-5s? One thing that always scares me about luxury brands is the jacked up servicing costs associated with them.
  • joeandcarol2joeandcarol2 Member Posts: 152
    I drove a new 9-3 5 speed manual. Liked the car but there was one very annoying ergonomic factor. My foot would fit under the clutch pedel while cruising along. The first time in 25 years I have experienced it. There is a foot rest to the left for my clutch foot, but its not where i like to keep that foot. This is crazy.
  • jdisanjdisan Member Posts: 28
    OK...so where the heck do you put 13 speakers?
  • jdisanjdisan Member Posts: 28
    each side front footwell - 2
    top and bottom each front door - 4
    top and bottom each rear door - 4
    Back sill - 2
    Subwoofer somewhere under a seat or in trunk - 1

    = Boom...13 speakers.

    (sorry for having this conversation with myself on the board - that was a complete waste of 8 mins of my life)
  • rgc2200rgc2200 Member Posts: 37
    scroll back and you'll see a thorough explanation of the infortainment. briefly, i followed your reasoning via the saab website, assuming the launch package had the 300 watt upgrade, infortainment 2 system. my salesman said no. i contacted saab via there website, and they actually called me admitting their website was confusing. the launch package has the onstar, infortainment dash package (which is fully integrated into the steering wheel, computer system) but only 140 watt 7 speaker system. i got an apology, (but no upgrade). the stereo is OK. . not fabulous. I don't crank the thing anyway.Joe(&carol) the clutch pedal doesn't bother me at all, and i'm tall (6'4"). as far as Nav. . most people I know who have it never use it. many don't know how to use it. I could see it being useful 1-2X/year, but i'm not sure I'd pay for it.
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    2001 9-3
    3300 km / month (Oct 2001 - August 2002)
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

    I was recommended by my serviceman to do oil&filter change every 8,000 km, the manual says up to 16,000 km (for all highway driving). I actually took it in around every 10,000 km at a cost of about $140 CDN per service (oil, filter, multi point check, tire rotation, etc.). My factory Michelin MXV4s will need replacing after 50,000 km (seems early to me). There is a valve sticking problem that was fixed (more or less) 6 months into ownership, covered by warranty (the asses gave me a saturn loaner).

    So I was doing $500 CDN/ year + tires (winter and summer sets) = about $700 CDN/ year. Probably pricey compared with other cars, but I drove my car a lot and loved every minute of it.

    Does 2003 come with 3 years service?

    OnStar licks donkey in Canada. <- Just my experience (they couldn't find a provincial park in Ontario, I found the nearest hospital before them by just driving around, they found IKEA and The Beer Store no problem)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    $140 for oil/lube/filter and tire rotation? Wow, that sounds like a lot. My Intrigue gets all that for $39.99 at my dealer. Do you have to bring it to the Saab dealer or can Jiffy lube do the job?
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    I take it to my Saab dealer, where the Saab qualified mechanic plays with my car. They do their multipoint inspection, top other fluids (transmission, brake, steering), and turn the 'Service Due' off on the SID (Saab Information Display) that pops up everytime you start the car, and whatever else.

    I got it back from service once and the engine rpm self limiter was 300 rpm higher. Before I took it in I could do 97 km/h in second gear, now I can hit 104 km/h. Nice to avoid that last shift right before the bell. Of course if I shifted faster I should probably shift as I pass 90 km/h but that's neither here nor there.

    I bought a near/entry-luxury car and intend on treating it right.
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    The British "Car" magazine did a comparo test of the 9-3 with 175hp, the Jaguar X-type 2.0 (which we don't have here, the Mazda6 2.3, BMW 320i, VolvoS60 2.0T, and surprisingly enough it was ranked near the bottom. Comments of note were harsh engine and questionable suspension set up.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Well, if you have a nice car then yes you should take car of it. I know our Intrigue is not quite as expensive a car, but I baby it with a nice garage, 2 waxes a year and lots of washes and oil changes. Cars definitely last longer if you take good care of them.
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    Is that article online?
    Can you give a web address or issue?

    thanks
  • needashaveneedashave Member Posts: 91
    I'm confused about pricing.I have read about $100 factory to dealer incentive, a $1,000 launch discount, a $500 GM loyalty discount, and 0% financing for 3 years. My company is a "GM supplier" so I think that means invoice pricing. Does anyone know if all these discounts can be had in one transaction? Also, does the GM loyalty discount apply to Saab? Just trying to get the facts straight before I head to the dealer/

    Happy motoring.
  • mooselookmooselook Member Posts: 68
    Check out this website for info about the GM supplier discount. You can call them and they will send you a price list. Yes, Saab does qualify for the discount!!

    http://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/email.html
  • larryjorlarryjor Member Posts: 12
    My brother and I are both high on the new 9-3. After reading the really +++ review in Top Gear, the informative, lengthy Edmunds review was somewhat more earth bound in its positives. Overall, I would say it was a fairly positive review but hardly a lovefest. The Car magazine comparo was even more retrained in tone in places, in our opinion. Good points were mentioned (handling, ergonomics, practicality). Furthermore, TV's Motorweek gave the 9-3 a very positive review, citing again handling, ergonomics, and price. First drives in Road & Track and Car & Driver, although not comprehensive road tests, were quite positive as well. These initial impressions by the auto press are important to us, although we tend to discount or question negative comments as they run counter to our perceptions/biases. On such occasions, when opinions can vary widely, does anyone else get the impression that are the magazines reviewing the same model and manufacturer. We still think styling, workmanship, handling, ergonomics, and safety technology are all of an extremely high order and definitely come very close to, if not surpass, certain aspects of the leaders BMW and Audi. The Vector, in our opinion, will close the perceived performance gap [for most] between BMW, Audi, and Volvo. Being avid Volvo fans for some 30 years, I think our very positive receptivity to the new 9-3 says a lot. The 9-3 IS going to be Saab's white knight.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    Howdy all,
    I am currently driving a Audi A4, lease is up soon, and I have been looking pretty seriously at the 9-3's, but I need some expert advice on the lease numbers, because it just doesn't add up to me.

    The car I am pricing out comes to $27,086 for the car and the $625 destination fee (no taxes, etc). The dealer is quoting a money factor of .00167 (4%), for a 36 month lease payment of $385 (55% residual).

    Issue is, the dealer is saying there is no room to budge on this, *however* he can add the launch package for free at this price, due to "dealer incentive" rebate he gets from Saab. Now I thought that Saab was offering $1,000 to dealers to sell the launch package, however the price sheet I had faxed from Saab shows MSRP of the Launch package as $2595 and dealer Net as $2154.

    do these numbers seem right, or should there be some more wiggle room some where?

    thanks for any help,
    Chris
  • needashaveneedashave Member Posts: 91
    Does anyone know when Saab will release more of the base model 9-3s? Current inventory I've seen tend to include the launch and touring packages, all of which I have no use for. I'm only interested in the base with auto, heated seats and moonroof.

    Happy motoring.
  • devilsadvct33devilsadvct33 Member Posts: 117
    Wondering if anyone has replaced their 9-3 headlights with aftermarket bulbs, such as the PIAA plasma, or super white, and what their experiences have been. Thanks.
  • mfschoenbergmfschoenberg Member Posts: 8
    Hi,

    My company is eligable for the GM supplier discount. I was quoted $29,334 for a new 9-3 with winter & launch packages normally retailing for $31,290 MSRP. There is 3.9% financing for 60 months through GMAC. Is there any room for negotiating further on this price? I haven't bought through the GM discount program before.

    I don't think I will have a trade in as I plan to sell my '91 Mazda Miata in the spring.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    Go to the Supplier discount website (www.GMsupplierdiscount.com) and check out the regional deals for your area- they are ON TOP OF the Supplier Discount. For Example, in the North East, on a 9-3 you can choose between $1,000 cash back or 0% financing. As to your prices, call Saab (770) 279-0100 and ask them to fax your the Employee and Supplier Discount price list- your prices seem off- on my sheet, prices are:
    9-3 Linear: 24,443
    Launch Package: 2,258
    Heated Seats $431

    Add $625 transportation and $130 dealer prep for your total. Are you also getting metallic paint or an automatic? Those are pay options.
  • mfschoenbergmfschoenberg Member Posts: 8
    My local dealership in the Chicago western burbs (Aurora, IL) has one base model 5spd and the rest are fully loaded auto's. My wife can't drive stick so I am limited to the auto.

    The auto & metallic paint would also be included, I'll call the Saab number and have them fax me the info just in case the dealer is trying to "pad" the price.

    I would be able to get 4.9% for 60mo from my credit union and use the $1000 off, but I don't know if that would be better than 3.9%. I'll check but I'm gessing that the interst charges over 5 years would be more than $1000 for the added 1% financed. Maybe I can get a better rate from my credit union, like 4.5%.

    Matt
  • cultured_hickcultured_hick Member Posts: 10
    mfschoenberg, I was just calculating similar numbers trying to determine which path I was going to go for a new 9-3. By using the 'determine your monthly payment' site on the left side of edmunds home page, I figured I would save $4.90/mo if I took the cash assuming no down payment on a $28,000 car with those parameters you mentioned at 60 mo. Check it out.

    To all others contributing to this chat, Cheers for helping me decide on a 9-3 over the A4 or 325i my fiancee wanted. She's the one with the gmsupplier connection, but hey, she got a ring. Although I am waiting for the Arc, there is no question in my mind that the Saab is faster and a better value, as well as more considerate for those riding in the back. It was mentioned above that there is a reduction on the launch pkg by $1000. If that is fact, is it documented anywhere, specifically for the gmsupplier plan.

    This is my first time posting...never looking back.
  • mfschoenbergmfschoenberg Member Posts: 8
    Thanks,

    I also just learned that the Zero-Zero-Zero GM incentive applies to the new 9-3. I can put zero down at 36mo @0% (or 60mo@3.9%) and no payments for 90 days. I may go this route.

    Still looking for a base w/ auto only in the Chicagoland area, it seems most saabs are fully loaded with just a few base 5spd manuals around.

    Matt
  • 1932caddy1932caddy Member Posts: 13
    I live near you on the Fox river. Am also interested in a Saab and was at the same dealer on rt 34. Call me at 554 0762. Pete
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    May I ask why you have decided to wait for the Arc? I am in the same position as you, Supplier discount, etc., and I am trying to determine if I can wait for the Arc, as it seems the price of the options will really add up once the launch package goes away.
    I figure a Linear will run me $28,334 with the launch package, metallic paint, heated seats, and automatic (including destination and dealer prep, but with the current $1,000 Launch package discount). If I wait for the Arc, I get the above, plus 35 more horses, leather armrests, 13 speaker/300 watt stereo, and drivers seat memory. However, on top of the $30,939 for the car with automatic, paint, heated seats, destination and prep, I would have to add the sunroof for $957 and the touring package at $1,040 (to get the CD changer) in order to have the same options as on the Linear I am looking at. That brings the Arc to $32,936, for a difference in price of $4,602, or 16% over the cost of the Linear.

    After driving the Linear, although I'm sure the extra ponies would be nice, the Linear is plenty spunky for me, and the extra .5 second in 0-60 times is not going to change my commute much. Also, there are no guarantees the 0% financing will continue forever, and I am concerned that with Saab losing @ $4,000 per car, GM is going to insist on higher prices or less discounts at some point. Therefore, I'm having trouble justifying the extra $$$ for the Arc, and am wondering what factors have made you decide to wait.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    As per my post #503, I am debating the Arc vs. Linear. Right now, I am driving an Audi A6 2.7T, and knowing Audi's issues, it leads me to wonder about Saab's reliability history on turbos, as Saab has been building cars with blowers for a long time. Can any of you long time owners comment? Also, is there a significant reliability/ wear and tear difference between the low power turbo in the Linear and the high power (normal?) turbo in the Arc/Vector?
  • brydymondbrydymond Member Posts: 41
    Unfortunately for Saab (and GM) this brand has been devalued so badly over the years that it does not make sense to buy one now. The residual values are low (reflective of old 9-3s) and when you run the lease figures (6.9%) the car costs WAY more than an A4 or 325 or even a loaded 9-5 ARC. I don't think they are selling nearly as well here as the US and it should be interesting to see what happens.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    They seem to be selling well around west Toronto. I have seen at least 3 on the road now. I don't think the brand has been "devalued" the way you describe.. I think the brand has been starved for new good product. 9-3 is a good start but more needs to be done.

    No incentives that I have heard of up here yet though.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    I can't speak for Canada prices and resale, but my opinion is, frankly, if someone has to lease one of these cars to make the payments affordable they probably would have 99 out of 100 finanacial advisors tell them that they have higher financial priorities in life than a new car. Bankruptcy courts are full of people, many who were high-flying dot-commers or rising young execs two yars ago, who thought they could "handle" lease payments but who then lost a job, got sick, divorced, or had some other income interruption that ruined their lives. Buying a car, you can at least sell it if things get rough. In a lease, with the formulas they use, you will get killed if you end it early. In my opinion, and that of several experts I have read and heard, leasing is for people with more money than time who just want the convenience of it and like to trade often, or for a select (very) few whose business use makes it work out for them tax wise(usually an overrated benefit). Look at too-high purchase payments as nature's way of telling you that you can't afford the car. If you have the money to buy it in the bank but prefer to lease for other reasons, fine, but it rarely pays off financially. There is rarely any "magic" that makes leasing cheaper. Why else would dealers push it so much if it wasn't more profitable?

    Another point against leasing... those "great" residual values on BMWS are set based on the WHOLESALE value of the car when you turn it in. This means you don't have the option of selling it yourself and pocketing the $3000 spread between retail and wholesale. Buying a less expensive Saab you can afford the payments on, then selling it privately, will net you more than leasing a more expensive BMW. Alternatively, I would rather buy a private seller used BMW with affordable payments. That's probably the best deal of all, here.

    That said, no car is going to beat a BMW 3 series for residual value as a percentage of MSRP. HOWEVER, when you factor in the fact that a comparably equipped BMW 325i sedan costs about $5000 US dollars more than a REAL WORLD price on a loaded Saab 9-3 Linear, the lease payment numbers are a little in favor of the Saab, or at least roughly even. You might also want to check insurance prices before you buy. We did and a 325i cost more to insure than our '97 540i, due to the demographics and driving style of its owners. I assume the Saab might have a more sedate drivership and resulting lower rates.

    Having owned two BMW's in recent years, I have to say that overall, I enjoy driving the $31,500 Saab 9-3 more than I did our 540's, even though it sure can't win any races against the BMW's. The car is a little more comfortable, smooth even with the sport wheel/suspension pkg, and is comparable in raw performance to a 325i, though the inline 6 is smoother and quieter. And as I've said before, I much prefer the sleek, sporty, yet inconspicuous look of the Saab 9-3 to that of the beautiful but very polarizing BMW. At least you won't be hated by half the driving public in a Saab. Some of the BMW luster wears thin when your car gets spit on, keyed, cut off in traffic, and you get followed and run off the road by people who just hate BMWs or see you as someone with money that they can rob. And finally, if anyone out there is into buying BMW solely for prestige, I have a newsflash for you. You're buying their low end starter model and aren't impressing as many people as you'd think.

    Finally, remember that resale values fluctuate. And frankly, the old 9-3 may have had its champions, but it didn't really do much to deserve high resale value. (torque-steer, turbo lag, body roll, reliability problems, older interior style, etc) The new 9-3 is a much better car, and if it proves reasonably reliable, look for resale values to rise a lot. Especially since Saab is obviously discounting and pricing low now to get market share. Check out the price increases on a BMW 3 series since '99. It's huge. As the 9-3's get more expensive and popular, your resale value will improve.
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    Unfortunately Saab has only sold about 2,000 9-3s per year in Canada. If my numbers are right that's around a measly 1.5% of worldwide total annual sales. Thus, I think that they are not going to try to sell the car in Canada as hard as in the US. My thinking would be that after it becomes a common alternative to the A4, 3-series and C-class in the US, canadian sales are bound to increase.

    Don't forget that a new 9-5 will be out as a 2004 model, I am assuming it will be higher priced than the current model (more A6, 5-series, E-class like pricing/size/etc.)

    www.saabcarsonline.com has a recent article about how the GM/Saab 'efficiency program' is underway and going to get the company through its current troubles. GM is still pumping money into the factory so that the new 9-5 can be built on the same line as the 9-3. Saab will be around for the long haul (Fiat, SEAT, Skoda and Lada are still around). As an aside, I think it's pretty funny that GM has a 41% stake in the current Chevy Niva (Niva is an old Lada model).
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