Saab 9-3 Sedan

code7700 · January 2003

This is a reply to a few messages. So you'll have to pick out your own stuff. =8)

<kpfleger>

When you put it that way, you are right. The TVM doesn't add up right (and as you said, it should include rebates, etc.) I got most of the rebate info from dealers, but I did read about the launch package rebate on some web site. Don't remember off the top of my head.

These guys should really do better homework and list such things. I don't think it is on purpose, just a lack of having done their homework.

<brucec35>

Base stereo is 150W. That much I know. I think Saab USA should give us a free upgrade. If you read the literature that they (Saab USA and the dealers) hand out, it implies that the infotainment system is 300W. In fact, I think the basic radio and infotainment system are 100% the same, except for the big screen. And for those with the base radio, as far as I see it, anything that would have gone on the big infotainment screen ends up on the smaller SID screen, so you don't really gain anything at all from having the infotainment system. Right? Then why do they call it infotainment?

I suggest that you (and anyone else) write Saab USA about this as well as Saab Automobiles AB.

The quality of the 150W system (the cheap rear speakers are a big part of the the problem) and seemingly featureless infotainment system should be brought to their attention.

If we all write, might make a difference (gosh that sounds lame). You don't have to be a jerk about it, just tell them what you think of the car (I think it is great) and that there are some areas that need improvement.

I'd also throw in that since you were "brave" enough to buy a first year model, they should be professional and help you get your "configuration" to where you think it should be. Be sure to include your VIN. =8)

Here is their info.

Saab Cars USA
4405 International Blvd Ste A
Norcross, GA 30093-3205

and

Saab Automobile AB
S-461 80
Trollhättan, Sweden

...on to the rest of the stuff...

Bluetooth is a short distance (low-power) networking technology. Ever see those guys walking around with an headset in their ear but no wires? The headset is bluetooth and their (mobile) phone is bluetooth. Pretty cool stuff. The idea is that if you have a bluetooth phone (and the infotainment system did what it was advertised to do) you could have your personal phone interface with the car. Like the Saab web site video shows.

I'm somewhat disappointed that this doesn't already work, nor do I think it will if OnStar is going to live in the car. On a side note, I think OnStar is a huge rip-off. I've never locked my keys in my car, ever.

(I recently read a story about a guy who did lock his keys in the car, but it was in an area the OnStar signal couldn't reach, hahahahah!)

As for headlights, that is odd. The manual says one thing, the car says another, and the way they work is even different from those two. Strange, eh? Plus if they are going to add xenon lights, I'd think it is a whole new lighting assembly, and they wouldn't need to leave the old lenses in there, right?

You won't ever see the "shift up" light because you have an automatic. =8) Heh heh. It only shows up on the manual transmission.

My girlfriend got homelink to work the first try... (and I have a rolling code garage door opener). She isn't even half as gadget-crazy as I am... so I suggest re-reading the manual. It is a bit tricky. The order of operations is very important.

Also, you may have to retrain your garage door opener to learn the new homelink signal (even if the homelink was programmed from an already working remote, you still have to relearn the car's signal).

I went for the darker interior because light always gets too dirty. The more time I spend in the car, the more I like the contrast. At first, however, it bothered me. Didn't take too long to get used to it, eh?

<dgarbari>

How'd you get a 9-3 with wood trim? DIO (dealer installed option?) They don't offer wood or metal trim on the Linear from the factory (but they should).

You said your 2000 Saab's lights stayed on too. Is that the same for the rear and side marker lights too, or just the headlights? Then why the hell are there 3 positions on the switch (headlights, parking lights, off)? =8)

Interesting fact about the shield on the bi-xenon lights. Pretty cool. Like I said in one of my posts, the Maxima SE I had as a rental car had xenon low-beams and regular high-beams -- looked half [non-permissible content removed]. I like the all xenon look, even if I can't turn them off.

<zeroch>

I agree. End of the year is always a good time to buy. However, I don't think a good business person would ever walk away from some easy cash (even if were only $500).

<blitzin1>

Bluetooth would do that too, if they had it turned on/installed like the video they show claims the car has.

<dindak>

It is a nice car. Even thought there are some little odd things about it, I don't regret my purchase. My previous car (and the one before that) had all kinds of strange crap too. Until I get to design the car myself, it'll never be 100% perfect (reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer designs that car for this brother!)

brucec35 · January 2003

a big "doh!" on the shift now thing! I forgot you had a manual. As far as wood trim and aluminum trim, the accessories catalog I have shows both available. Seperate prices for doors, shift knob, trim around shifter, and aluminum trim around gauges. Nice looking and a nice option, but I remember it was pretty pricey. Like $70 just for the piece that fits around the shifter. My salesman was nice enough to give me the accessory catalog when we did the deal. They also have some really nice 18" wheels that look great on the silver car in the catalog, since they sit out wider and give it an even more aggressive stance, but that's got to be really expensive, not to mention the cost of replacing the tires.

The "infotainment" does seem overly complex for how little it actually seems to do. Integrating a cell phone through the car would be really useful for a lot of people. But as little as we use the cell phones now, we may be satisfied with the onstar calling and use our cells only out of the car. But at $200 a year just to have it turned on, I would consider dropping it when the free 2 years is up.

I live about 20 miles from Saab's US headquarters here in the Atlanta area. They called last week and will be calling back to talk to my wife. Maybe we'll mention the stereo thing.

mooselook · January 2003

First, about the headlights, Code7700. I have about 1400 mi on my new 9.3 and have had my one month dealer service. I asked the Service people to "re-program" my DRL's so that they are not always on. Once done, the first step (the "0") on the headlight switch is "OFF", the next step is Parking Lights and the third step is headlights - just like a normal car! It works great and they did it for free. There is a plug with a plastic cover, near the base of the steering column that they plug in to their computer to program the change.
Regarding the "useless" headlamp, I checked mine and, like yours, it never turns on, no matter what I do. As someone else conjectured, probably a useless appendage having to do with the Euro market. (Imagine how you would feel if the bulb was NOT there and you were looking at en empty socket!) Anyway, there is nothing wrong with your car.
Brucec35 - You wrote that you added 6 X 9 speakers to the rear. A few questions: 1.) Did you cut into the wires or were you able to find a plug/socket that was compatible? If so, where? 2.) How did you get the plastic "fake speaker" out of the speaker hole? Does it pop out? 3.) was the improvement in sound worth doing?
Thanks!
**-- Mooselook --**

hppypaul · January 2003

Thanks for the great feedback on the new 9-3. I have a 2000 SE right now with lease up in april. I've driven just about everything out there and the new one seems like a great deal for the money. Everything that is an extra in a beemer or audi is already there in the saab (as it should be). BMW has the nerve to charge extra for a fold down rear seat.

I'm just about decided between a new 9-3 or a 9-5 (since i've been reading about some unbelieveable deals out there on these). Please keep the real world experience coming.

I was also very close to getting a MINI cooper, but thanks to these boards I learned about way too many first year problems than I wanted to deal with. My saab dealer here in NJ has been very good for service and really not given me a reason to look elsewhere.

joeandcarol2 · January 2003

I also thought the 2002 Maxima SE 6 speed was a bad joke. Worst manual and worst clutch I have ever experienced.. I road tested Maximas for 3 model years and the clutch travel (very very long) was the same in all models. A similar car that did all that correctly is the Acura CL 6 speed. Almost like an S2000

hungshy · January 2003

Thanks to code7700 instruction.. I finally did program the homelink. yes, place the opener hace to rear mirror not under it. just 3-5 seconds then it's done.

code7700 · January 2003

Cool deal Mooslook. I plan on going over to my dealer tomorrow and I'll let him know that. Can you ask your guy where he got the info in case my guy can't find the "how to" data?

Isn't the Internet great? And "they" said it was just a fad. <grin>

On that topic, what other stuff can be programmed or customized? I bet there are tons of things that aren't even documented. One thing I'd love to turn off is the "shift-up" light on the manual transmission. That is so annoying.

I also plan on having the locks do what my last 3 cars (both American and European) have done... lock when you get over 10 MPH and unlock when you turn the key off (or out).

What else. Oh, I'll ask them to make it so the alarm "chirps" when I arm it. Right now I don't know if I'm arming it or disarming it when I press the button (I really don't want to have to look at my hand all the time).

Other than that, I can't think of anything else I'd like, but who knows what there is.

...as for some of the other posting...

<<hppypaul>>

I can't believe BMW is charging for folding seats. That is lame. It is cheaper for BMW to give it to every for free than to have to stock two types of seats in inventory and have additional assembly line processes. I'm not logistics expert, but I bet the cost to have two seats/procedures costs them a few hundred thousand dollars per year when you add up all the time/money/procedure math.

One thing Saab (GM) is doing right with this car (from a business point of view) is only offering a few packages. And most, if not all, of the packages do not "link" to other packages. On the Nissan Maxima, if you wanted a base model with heated seats, you had to get the sunroof, leather seats, and like 3 other things that ended up costing $3,500. Those are some damn expensive (not to mention uncomfortable [see below]) heated seats.

As for the 9-3 vs. the 9-5. Go for the 9-3. It is a better car. I drove both. Someone a few posts ago mentioned how it is EOL soon (end of life), so either wait for the new 9-5 or get the current (new) 9-3. I personally still think the 9-5 looks like the "Saabs of yesterday". I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I never was a big fan of the previous Saab's looks.

<<joeandcarol2>>

I'm glad I'm not the only person who said that about the Maxima SE. In fact, after I saw the 9-3, I instantly decided that there was no way I wanted the Maxima SE. The Nissan sales person I met (one of the few remaining professional sales guys in the world) asked me if I'd be nice enough to share why I didn't like it (and he was 100% sincere).

Here is the list I gave him (the more I write on the board, the most I realize how insanely meticulous I am, but more on that later):

Why I didn't like the Maxima... by Code7700:

* Steering wheel mounted radio/cruise controls were not backlit.

* The LCDs used in the dash (especially the "trip computer") were of poor quality. They looked no better than the LCDs you find in a 25-cent watch. In fact, they are so bad it was hard to tell the difference between 30.0 MPG and 300 MPG (obviously it was 30.0).

* Seats were extremely uncomfortable after 30-minutes of driving.

* Excessive torque steer (disadvantage of the huge engine).

* No stability control offered.

* No traction control on manual transmission.

* Rear suspension not independent.

* Free 3 or 4 year maintenance (service) not included with price.

* Warranty 1-year (12,000 miles) shorter than other vehicles in same price range.

* Steering wheel did not telescope (but it did tilt).

* Doors do not lock automatically when you reach 10-MPH. Can not be programmed to do so.

* Doors do not unlock automatically when you turn ignition off. Can not be programmed to do so.

* No rear air vents.

* Headlight washer/sprayer not available.

* Clock poorly mounted in upper dash area (looks like an afterthought).

* Clock did not dim when dash lights were dimmed down (again, clock looks like an afterthought).

* No loaner car offered when vehicle has to be serviced.

He E-mailed me the next day to say thanks for the list, told me he agreed with many of the things I wrote, and thanked me for at least considering the Maxima. How rare is that?

hungshy · January 2003

Thanks to code7700 instruction.. I finally did program the homelink. yes, place the opener hace to rear mirror not under it. just 3-5 seconds then it's done.

dgarbari · January 2003

Thanks code 7700 for the info on programing the home-link, I will give it a try.

The wood trim was a dealer installed accesory out of the Saab catalogue. I negotiated this as part of the total price. The wood is a dark walnut with a matte finish. It is the same that will be standard in the Arc and looks great. I had it installed on my '00 9-3 as well.

I also installed a pair of polk audio 3-way 6x9 rear speakers ($99.00 at Circuit City). The plastic covers in the rear deck just pop out. The speakers had to be mounted under the deck rather then through as there was not enough clearance without cutting the rear shelf trim. I spliced the speakers into the existing wires for the 4" mid-ranges. Unfortunately the wire harness I used was a little short so I had to unplug the existing speakers. They can be easily reconnected when I return the car or get longer wire.

The sound improvement with the speakers is good not great. I suspect the system is not designed to power bass speakers in the rear so the new speakers are not putting out their best. The biggest improvement however is the ability to adjust the fade so the bias is not all in the front. This change greatly improves the overall sound balance. I would say if you basically mechanically skilled, it is worth the small investment.

I do agree that 6x9s should have been included as part of the "Upgrade" to the infotainment II over the base system.

Lastly, I always did think it was odd that there are three positions on the light switch but they are always on. I understand this is how saab provides DRLs but it seemed odd thatyou cannot not tun the lights off while the car is running. That having been said, I never burned out a light so having them on all the time is one less thing to think about I guess.

brucec35 · January 2003

I also spliced my wires. Crutchfield carries a ton of custom built harnesses for various brands, but since the '03 9-3 is so new, it wasn't on their online database and I didn't feel like taking the time to call and wait on hold and give my address, credit card info, etc, etc so I just spliced the wires. I agree with dgabari that the sound improvement is good, not great. I suspect that since the original rear speakers were so small, Saab must have used some sort of bass blocker inline somewhere to block the really low frequencies, so as not to distort that smaller speaker. If I can find out where that is located, probably coming out of the head unit, I may remove it. But it sounds decent already.

I can't wait to program the @$#@$! homelink when the wife gets the car home tonight.

mmeytin · January 2003

I also recently (December 24th) became an owner of a new Saab 9-3 SS Linear. It has an automatic transmission, silver metallic color, heated seats, Launch and Touring packages. The price before taxes (but including a destination charge) was $29,583 - not quite as good as code7700's, but I thought a pretty good deal. This is in Baltimore-Washington Metro area, btw. In general, I love the car, despite a few quirks. I also still have a few unresolved questions about the equipment, although this board was very helpful in finding answers to some of them. It will be nice if people continue to post various reprogramming procedures performed by their dealers. Can someone also shed the light on the button located right above the ESP (or possibly TCS on some cars) button? It doesn't seem to do anything, and I didn't see a mention of it in the manual. It displays a white horizontal line. Any ideas? Also, for everyone's benefit - the best site for Saab's discussions and information is probably www.saabnet.com - lots of useful information there as well. Enjoy!

zeroch · January 2003

I think that the dash interface of infotainment2 (launch package) is extremely user-unfriendly. Personally I prefer the simpler turn-knob of the basic model, instead of a whole of buttons that force you to take your eyes off the road in order to change anything. And I got confused everytime I tried to customize the climate control system, maybe I am just "behind" on this.

BTW, a couple of oddities, if any of you notice this, I would appreciate your input:

1. everytime just before I ignite my car (when my key turn from off to on), I notice the xenon light flashes for 1/10 of a sec and then light up again, as if it's about to burn out. Is this normal?

2. on "auto" climate control, there is very little air coming out of the central vents. Any opinion?

3. I "customize" the climate control once then I revert back to "auto" but the word "CUSTOMIZE" keep showing up on the screen. Minor but is it a bug?

dgarbari · January 2003

I have experienced two of the oddities zeroch describes and can shed light on one of them. The lights flash when you turn on the ignition because they are testing themselves and self leveling. This happens every time.

I also have the word "customize" on my climate control system. I thought it was referring to the fact that I changed the start up settings for the climate control in the profiler.

logic1 · January 2003

You will find that self leveling function on the new BMWs too. It is a safety feature to help insure these bright lights do not blind other drivers.

logic1 · January 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030103/autos_saab_table_1.html

Probably all thanks to the new 9-3 with the old 9-5 dragging.

mmeytin · January 2003

This is a mixed report. Quarterly sales are up 4.9%, but yearly sales are up only 0.7% (to 37,805 units). These numbers are still below their sales for 1999 (39,541) and 2000(39,479). Of course, the redesigned 9-3 was only on sale for less than a full quarter, so I think there's a potential (particularly with Arc and Vector coming in Spring) that it will pull the sales numbers for 2003. Whether it will pull them as far as GM would want, that's another question. I wonder how Saab in general and 9-3SS in particular is doing worldwide.

code7700 · January 2003

Anyone have any idea if the infotainment will ever do anything? In other words, when will it actually be infotainment!

If you look the movie at http://www.saabusa.com/microsites/9-3S/shared_files/movies/infotain_b2.mov it shows a a guy using the car with Bluetooth (said car has the [not-yet-in-the-US] navigation package).

I really hate how people think we American's are so far behind in GSM that we wouldn't want Bluetooth in our car. Technically, you could have Bluetooth added to any phone (TDMA, GSM, etc.) Hell, you could even have it added to your toothbrush if you felt so included.

I'm not sure what your issue is with CUSTOMIZE, mine works fine. If you tell the air to start in AUTO mode, it will start off with air coming out of the top and bottom vents (I assume you're using heat, since it is winter, but then again, you could be in Vegas). You can override it by selecting MANUAL in the SID and selecting which vents you want the air to come out of (front vs. top and/or bottom).

I think the lights flash (separate from self-leveling) just so the system can check the power going to them. If you notice when you start the car it says CHECKING or something like that while it checks out the "network" inside the car. They used fiber optic cable inside the car as I understand it, so they can do some cool stuff without having to worry about crappy copper wires. For example, if you leave the gas-cap off, or the rear seat is not locked properly, you'll get a warning light.

One thing maybe you guys can look at... get in the car and lock all the doors with the button. When you (manually) pull up the drivers lock, do you hear a motor? I do. But only the drivers lock unlocks. Seems that the (manual) lock is just there for display and controls the lock motor. Sort of backwards, unless mine is messed up and it is supposed to unlock all the doors. I don't know for sure. I need to re-read the manual, I'm sure it is in there, most stuff is.

At least the numbers are going up. 4.9 and 0.7 are still positive numbers. I think it will take time for people to see and want the 9-3... lots of people still think of the Saab is an oddball car (I was one of those people until I saw/drove the new 9-3).

mooselook · January 2003

First, thanks for the input on the speakers, Brucec35 and Dgarbari. I guess I'll spring for a pair myself.

Code7700, regarding the request about where the dealer got the info about how to reprogram, I got the impression that these guys receive training on how to work on these vehicles and that it was relatively routine. If your service guy doesn't know how to do it, here's a link to the dealership I use here in NJ. He can call them and ask!

http://www.reinertsenmotors.com/index.html

I have no clue what else can or can't be programmed. It was actually my salesman that gave me the tip about the DRL's. If you find that any of those items you listed can actually be reprogrammed, I'd like to know, cause they're all great ideas!

MMEYTIN - Regarding the dummy button above the ESP or TCS button, I understand that it's supposed to be On-Star related, whenever they get that fixed. Also, as an aside, in the owners manual, I believe they show both a TCS and an ESP button. My car has only one, the ESP, which controls BOTH the stability and Traction Control systems.

Question for Hungshy: I recall that a few hundred posts up, that you had a fender bender...mixed up a little paint. How much damage, is it fixed and what did it cost?

Finally, here's another good Saab discussion board:

http://www.saabscene.co.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

It's in the UK, so if you can get past their calling a sedan a "saloon", there's a lot of good stuff there.

**-- Mooselook --**

code7700 · January 2003

I dread ever getting front end damage. Between the expensive headlights and water spray heads, you're looking at a few thousand dollars in damage no matter how "simple" your crash is.

It is odd how TCS and ESP are on the same button. As for the button above that, I don't think it is OnStar related, but guess we'll find out.

Question is, say I don't care for OnStar... if I don't get it installed, will that stop me from using anything useful in the future?

hungshy · January 2003

I got it repaird in one week. Part in 1 day but wait for washer bottle about 5 days. cost list below:
OEM FRONT COVER - $435
OEM LEFT FT COVER MLDG - $13
OEM LEFT TURN SIGNAL LAMPIN COVER - $19
OEM WASHER BOTTLE - $62
SUBL FLEX-S - $15.6
SUBL COVER CAR-S - $5
+++TOTAL ITEMS $675.6
+++TOTAL LABOR $460 ( INCLUDING REPAIR, PAINT WORK)
TOTAL COST IS LESS THAN $1200
my idea is this new 9-3 has very solid body frame. so it didn't cause the head light or water spray damage. lucky me:)

skysaab · January 2003

I am so glad that you like the fun part of Saab 9-3. I do feel little bit unfair to Saab since TL is Acura flagship model. No matter what, they are two different level of car. Then you still feel there are so much fun from driving Saab 9-3. Car is speaking for itself. Good thing you are notice the very interested issue. From my experience of owning Saab 9-3. After test drive, I couldn't resist myself to take it home with me. for next 6 month it's fun to drive all the time. Even now after 2 years. The feeling of exciting still come up at most of time. For me, I like to enjoy the turning, corning and stop and go on highway and local. Most of mind on the car and always look out to find out how much fun I can find from every coming trip. From the day one I already knew, interior has nothing effect to my decision. that's for show most of time to my friends only. for myself. black color is the perfect match. Present myself as professional look to my position. Present myself as special one not like others only following the fasion flow. two years ownership show me no serious problem in this car. Only went into service twice for door lock issue. Coupld months ago, breaks, rotors and tires got replaced and no more breaking nosie after that day. the ride handling even better than ever.
For me, trust your sense. Feel the spirit of car. after 5 years. saab is still Saab. But TL will be the older model of Acura line.

massappeal106 · January 2003

Looking to lease a '03 9-3 Linear. Wondering what kind of a lease deal you got. Also, what are the specs of the car you leased.

Thanks

code7700 · January 2003

That isn't too bad. I would have though that Saab parts would be insanely overpriced due to the low volume of cars on the road, but your costs do not seem out of line compared to the average car crash.

On a separate topic, http://www.saabcatalog.com lists a "Phone Connector Harness" for $15 for both the 9-3 and 9-5 (1999 models and up). I assume this doesn't include the 2003 model because it is new... If you look on there, they have two types of things, they have 1999- and 2003- (they don't end 1999 with 2002, but I assume they should).

http://www.saabcatalog.com/retail/images/family/big/806.jpg

Even if that isn't a 2003 option, what the heck is it for? It says, "Pre-wired power access. Facilitates installation of mobile phone. Dealer installation recommended." It has to do more than give you power, right? Did it tie the phone into the car in any way other than by giving it juice?

Speaking of add-ons, I can't believe they get $60 for the cargo apron, $45 for a side cargo net, and $55 for the floor cargo net. That is a bit steep. Does anyone know of any 3rd party companies making these things?

http://www.saabcatalog.com/retail/images/family/big/03-76~19.jpg

The only thing listed in the accessory catalog is the phone cradle mount, at $16. Still overpriced, but not that bad.

http://www.saabcatalog.com/retail/images/family/big/03-760~4_phone.jpg

Lastly, any of you live where it is cold? Is it worth getting an engine block heater (even if it will mainly be used when car is in my garage?) What about the SID timer that goes with it?

And my favorite, the Coreganizer... who the hell travels with pet fish in their trunk? Hah hah hah.

http://www.saabcatalog.com/retail/images/family/big/3076.jpg

Lastly, the ice scraper that goes into the smart slot... I'm not sure how useful it'll be with ice dripping into the smart slot after use, but the thing would make a nice "friend" if someone tries to car-jack you.

bigdaddycoats · January 2003

november and december were 2246 for the new 9-3.

oldsman01 · January 2003

I have a Motorola CDMA phone which is bluetooth compatible. I would be very interested in having bluetooth in my next car. The ability to use the Onstar handsfree system, while using my personal cellular provider and MIN would be great. I have Onstar in my Intrigue and used the personal calling feature a few times when I first got the car, but after the "newness" of it wore off, I haven't bothered. One problem, it uses a different MIN so when you call someone on it, they see that number on their caller ID(or hear it as callback on their voicemail) and try to call you back on it. I'd love to sync my cell phone up with the system so I could use the handsfree as the Onstar system does seem to be the best hands-free system(sound quality wise) I've used.

oldsman01 · January 2003

What different features can be turned on or off? I would personally like auto door locks enabled(last two cars have had this) and would like for the headlights to function automatically(but remain off during daylight hours). Also, do the headlights have a delay-out feature when they are set to work automatically? I'm still waiting on the Arc before seriously considering, but some of the deals I'm seeing are tempting Especially as my Intrigue has sat in the shop since Christmas Eve waiting on a part.

saabnuts · January 2003

kpfleger asked where could you get the best information on saabs and the dealer incentives? try cars.com. Far better than edmunds.

Also looking at 2002 viggen convertible w/ 10k miles vs. new s-e convertible. Any thoughts anybody?

linsalad · January 2003

Hey all,

Been lurking on this thread for quite a while (have a 7 page word document with notes I've taken from here as well!) trying to learn as much as I can before I go in to buy the new 9-3 (first car...saw it months and months ago, fell in love, and have been saving up for it ever since). Anyways, I wasn't able to buy it in December when everyone was desperate to sell, so I'm looking to purchase one soon.

Does anyone have any information on the new deals - both packages and financing - (effective Jan 2/3)? I've emailed three dealers (while I would love to try to negotiate, I'd rather hope to just get a good offer right off the bat and for for it), but they have yet to get back to me.

Also, I have seen some people say they got "0/0/0" financing...does this mean that they got the dealer to agree to 0% financing despite the fact that they currently say 0% is applicable for only a 2 year loan?

Thanks!
Dave

kpfleger · January 2003

Saabnuts, thanks for the cars.com pointer. Their incentives info does indeed seem to be better. -K

cehblckdr · January 2003

I'm looking at the Saab 9-3 convertible and the Audi. I've noticed many problems with the electrical and other parts on the A4. Can anyone provide me with some comments about the reliability of the Saab both electrical and mechanical?

Would you purchase a Saab over an Audi?

logic1 · January 2003

I would wait until the new 9-3 convertible is available. The 9-3 on the market now is based on a nearly 8 year old platform.

The new 9-3 sedan is light years ahead of the old sedan, but the price has stayed almost put. Expect the same for the new convertible.

bphd · January 2003

Hey Guys...
Went to my local Saab dealer and test drove the linear with the auto/triptonic....it was ok.. I currently drive a 98 passat and felt that the SAAB size wise was about the same.. The SAAB definitely handled better and felt nicer, but I wasn't blown away.

I also drove a 2002 Aero 9-5..I most definitely could see and feel the difference. The 9-5 was boring, uninspired and listless...The 9-3 is much better car and ride.

Now here is the rub...I work for a company that falls into the GM supplier discount realm. I get the SAAB at $350 below invoice.

So I think I going to wait for the ARC to come out and test drive that and then see what I feel. I hope the 210 hp and the refined interior may sway me a bit more.

joeandcarol2 · January 2003

Would like to hear from owners of new 9-3s with manual trannys... How is the shifting. Smooth or notchy. Any problems with gear grunching? Short throw or long throws?

mooselook · January 2003

I have the 5 speed manual in my 9.3 Linear. I'm very pleased with the way it shifts. I would not call it notchy at all. The Subaru WRX that I test drove was notchy. The throws are not exactly short, but they're not long either. It's a smooth shifting transmission. There are no gear grinds unless I really do something stupid. The clutch takup is progressive and light. The manual trans is fun to drive and so far, it has not been a chore (and we sometimes have a lot of traffic on these NJ roads).
When I had my test drive of the 9.3, the dealer car was a manual, so I've never driven the Saab auto. I'd recommend that you test one out if you can.
***-- Mooselook --***

oldsman01 · January 2003

I am eligible for the GM supplier discount as well and $350 below invoice seems like a very good price. I am too waiting on the Arc.

rgc2200 · January 2003

I also love the 5 speed. Much nicer overall feel then the audi A4 I drove. Not quite as crisp as the bmw, but saab did lighten up the clutch, the throws are easy and comfortable and the car is very responsive, even in the 175 hp.

any owners hear anything re: onstar availability?

cjkl · January 2003

I seem to have found a good deal on a 01 93 SE 5spd, with only 31K on it. Test drove it and it runs and handles great. The only 'glitch' that caught my attention was when I down shift into 3rd and keep my hand resting on the shifter and press it forward a little, I notice a bit of a vibration!

I was just wondering if anyone has experienced this before and what may be causing it? Or is this normal?

Anyother advice or warnings about the 01?

Thanks.
Chris

needashave · January 2003

Does anyone have an update on when the non-launch linears will be coming in? The dealers I have spoken with either don't have a clue or can't be trusted (surprised?!)All I have found is linears with the launch package and lots of extras and linears with no options whatsoever. I'm looking for a linera with auto sunroof and heated seats.

Happy motoring.

oldsman01 · January 2003

I've heard March on the Arc and Vector. I'm awaiting those as well as an lightly optioned Arc is what I'm looking for. The 9-3s I've seen at the dealer here are all Linears and are loaded to the over $30K range. At that price, I'm waiting on the additional power and interior enhancements of the Arc.

needashave · January 2003

How is the interior different from the Linear to an Arc? I know the Arc has more displacement, anything else different? This may sway me toward the Arc as well. Thank you.

linsalad · January 2003

Hey all,

Well my attempt to use the Internet salesmen at various dealers here outside of Boston just didn't work, so I think I'm going to go in and talk tomorrow.

I have a couple questions, though, that I was hoping I could get some answers to before I went in:

1) Does anyone know if there are any special deals available (now that the old ones have expired) past what is listed on cars.com? I'm wondering if there are "hidden" ones, etc.

2) Code7700 mentioned that 17" tires are useless in the snow...and I wanted to hear what other people thought about that. More specifically, do people think that if I get the sport package and then use 17" snow tires during the winter, I'll be fine? Or should I try to get something like a 16" wheel set with the sports tuning?

Thanks!
Dave

hungshy · January 2003

When I got my Saab I asked sales about 17". Yes, he said the 17" can't be use when it's snow. It need to be replaced with snow tires.

blitzin1 · January 2003

How are you guys getting below invoice deals on supplier discount?

I finally settled on ordering an Arc and my (and my dealers) reading of the supplier discount is straight invoice pricing (unless you are adding in things like the launch package discount or the $1,000 cash back that GM has extended thru February)?

if I can save a coupla more bucks here, I'd love to hear how.

needashave, as to interior, the Arc has leather center console and side armrests (Linear are cloth), metal instrument bezels, wood trim on center console and door, seat memory and (potentially) a stereo aux jack in the center console.

Oldsman, my local dealer (Long Island, NY) has a Merlot/Parchment Linear with sunroof, auto and heated seats sitting on his lot, so there are definitely some around.

crocan · January 2003

I will be in the market for a new car as soon as the snow melts and all the road salt is gone. Hopefully by early April. Up until this past week all I could see myself driving was a G35. That is until I drove the new 9-3. If HP and 0-60 times are taken out of the equation this car is far superior to an Infiniti and furthermore is probably as good or better than anything else out there. The handling is superb, the interior fit and finish are top notch ( as good as my friends new A4 ). Driving the car you can tell Saab paid attention to detail (ie the cup holder, both front and back, the cool looking key and where the ignition switch is located ). I find the outside of the car to be very attractive and at the same time very Saabish. I can't believe that I'm actually attracted to the looks of a Saab. Until this new 9-3 came I found them to be just plain ugly.
WRT the interior the only thing I didn't like was the fabric covered center console lid and door inserts, come on Saab why cut back on something that I need to look at and feel everytime I'm in the car.
In a nutshell if someone is in the market for an entry level lux car you owe it to yourself to try this one out.

kpfleger · January 2003

I'm not usually one to pay much attention to or be picky about the look of interiors. I don't mind cloth and I actually prefer not to have wood, but even I agree that given the leather seats, the center console lid was a real detractor from the look of the interior (the inside door panels didn't bother me in comparison). A simply plastic top would have been significantly preferable. I imagine it can't be too hard to replace the lid with a better one. Surely there will be some aftermarket (or heck just getting rid of the lid altogether would probably look fine by comparison).

brucec35 · January 2003

Linsalad: I got the 0/0/0 financing for 36 months, not 24. My first payment is due in March, I believe. Saab offered $1000 in lieu of the financing at that time. No idea on what the current incentives are, though, they were set to expire 1/2/03 on the deal I took.

Saab 9-3 convertibles: Drove a 2003 convertible for a few days as a loaner while ours was having the rear bumper repainted!!!! (the dealer's car mover machine scratched it while moving it around their tiny storage facility). It was peppy enough, but I couldn't believe it only had 4,000 miles on it. It felt like a 5 year old car. Not terrible, but a little jiggly, with less solidity and inferior handling to the 2003 sport sedan. I would definitely consider waiting for the new design, especially since I noticed the sticker on this car was over $40,000!!!! I think there are better $30,000 convertibles out there than the current convertible 9-3.

bphd: I agree the new 9-3 is nice but nothing spectacular. But it's in line with the price of the car, especially if you lay off some of the nice-to-have options on the Linears or go with an Arc when they become available. And if you compare a comparably equipped Passat, they're about the same price and the 9-3 will outperform it and is a brand new design, not one about to be replaced. To me, the only car that clearly exceeds the 9-3 in areas like looks, handling, power, refinement, etc is the BMW 3 series, which runs from $5,000 to $10,000 more in real world pricing when you factor in incentives, etc. And the 9-3 is bigger and more comfortable (to me, at least) and I prefer the Saab styling to the botched front end 'freshening' the BMW got last year. While it may lose races to the 3 series, for commuting and trips and errands and your savings account, the Saab may be superior.

rgc2000: My salesman called this week to check on things and left a message, but no word on onstar availability at this time.

needashave: The Arc/Vector actually have the same displacement engine as the Linear, but more boost on the turbo to get the extra power/torque. I read in a car guide I thumbed through at the store that the Arc/Vector engine had more turbo lag than the Linear, though I can't confirm that, of course. To me, the Linear has decent, if not overpowering acceleration, but does have that little lag when you hit the accelerator, so I would actually prefer less power if it kept lag low. Be sure to drive both before ordering or buying. I also read that the lag felt worse on manuals, which surprised me.
None feel like a V8 engine, but they do the job.

Cloth console, Linear interior: I think it would be an easy fix for an upholstery shop to roughly match your leather seats and slap a small piece on top of your arm wrest and possibly even the door inserts if it bothered you. You can also order/buy wood trim, leather door inserts, aluminum gauge rings, etc from Saab as accessories if you want the Arc interior look. But if the Arc engine is indeed superior, I would buy a new Arc over a loaded Linear, for resale and its other advantages vs. the small price difference.

oldsman01 · January 2003

Someone else got the $300+ below invoice with the supplier discount. Straight invoice is still a pretty good price and is about what I had expected. Did you order the Arc? Any word on when they will offically be in decent supply? The extra 35 hp, additional cog in the manual, 300 watt audio system, and numerous little extras are why I've decided to hold out for the Arc.

regfootball · January 2003

seen a promo for a 299 a month payment, 48 month buy with 13k balloon payment. sort of a GM smartbuy kinda thing.

oldsman01 · January 2003

In today's paper there was a 9-3 lease promo of $299 a month for 48 months with $3500 down. Thats okay, but it bit much to put down IMO. I'd rather keep it around $1500-2000 down and would be willing to pay closer to $399 a month for 36 months. Of course, I also need 15K a year, not the 12K their deal has.

logic1 · January 2003

With credit. But a balloon payment loan for a car just does not make sense to me.

Audi offers a balloon option too. There are so many entry level cars on the market now. Buying one with a balloon payment really takes a big risk on the car holding a lot of value.

Saab 9-3 Sedan

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