Saab 9-3 Sedan

dindak · January 2003

I agree.. warming up the engine is something you do with old iron block motors. Aluminum engines do not need that same warm up. That said, I usually don't floor it until the engine is at least 1/2 way warmed up.

hungshy · January 2003

I have one qiestion for this car warming up issue. I did couples time to drive this car in the cold morning without warming up. Then I heard the engine was dragging. And the car running with under power. I felt it's not as smooth as the car been warming up. Don't know if that be ok or not?

zeroch · January 2003

I also felt the engine "drags" and slightly "slow" in response when I start the car so I suppose that's due to a cold engine. I suppose Saab must have thought of any liability issue before they put that recommendation in, so I guess I will take that advice. I found the car warms up quite slowly though, compared to my old one. the heated seat definitely helps me feel warm fast, just wish they have heated steering wheel...

BTW, I have kinda of a silly question since this is my first automatic shift car. If I am travelling fast on highway and I (or my passenger) go crazy and push the stick to "Reverse" what would happen? In my old manual stick, there is a lock that prevents me from doing that.

robr2 · January 2003

"If I am travelling fast on highway and I (or my passenger) go crazy and push the stick to "Reverse" what would happen?"

Crunch crunch grind grind - at least that's what happens in Taurus' from Hertz!! Just kidding people.

More than likely, there is a positive stop between neutral and reverse. In most cars, you can move the shifter between D and N without the use of the shifter button but need to use the button between neutral and reverse. With the car parked, try to move the shifter into R from N and see if it goes.

cermedes · January 2003

Once (on a rented Chrysler Vayager), I put it from drive into park while it was still moving (very slowly). Nothing happened until it had parctically come to a stop. The car did stop very upruptly at the very end. There was no grinding noises or anything.
I wouldn't recommend to try the same thing at higher speeds though.
Back to the warming up phase issue.
That a car is not accelerating as well when its engine block is ice cold is normal. This has mainly something to do with the viscosity of the engine oil at low temperatures and its higher friction.

massappeal106 · January 2003

Has anyone upgraded the rear speakers in an '03 9-3? If so, I"m interested in what you did, and how you did it.

Much thanks!

wmquan · January 2003

On the Linear, is any part of the dash housing made of soft-touch material, or is the entire dash hard plastic?

Thanks!

peter7777 · January 2003

Does the steering wheel on the 9-3 Linear vibrate noticeably when the engine idles? If so does the larger engine reduce vibration?

hungshy · January 2003

My saab doesn't have vibration at all.

malango · January 2003

A few posts above (805) I mentioned that I had been unable to find a 93 Linear with the Options/color I wanted: Dark color, Launch, Touring, 17" wheels, and manual tranny. So heres my update
I had visited a couple of the local dealers in Dade and Broward (South Florida) but they had only three cars with manuals in their lots (combined). One of the dealers performed a dealer search on the spot but couldn't locate a car with my options. He did offer me a great deal for a car that he had on the lot with the options I wanted but was with Auto tranny. I said that I was only interested in a manual. Then he asked me to put the options in order of preference and said he was going to do a dealer search and he would call me on Monday with the findings. I called him Monday after lunch and said he would be back to me within an hour, but he seriously doubted that he could find a car with my specs. He never called me back that day (actually as of today he has not called me back). Seems like he didn't take me seriously and didn't want my business.
Tuesday I decided to call another dealer about 50 miles away just to see what they had in their lot. The salesman took my info and said he thought he didn't have anything in the lot, but that he was going to see what he could find. He called me back and said that he had access to a car with my specs and he could do a dealer trade. I said that I was considering the deal that I was offered and if he could match the discounts and lease rates. He responded that his manager was eager to move cars (I guess because it was the 28th of the month!!) and that he would do what he needed to do to get the sale. The salesman came back with some numbers, and I told him that the numbers were higher that what I was expecting. I ask him to give me his best offer, and he said that if he could get me the car for xxx, what I would do. I said that was the number I was looking for and "You got a deal". I was interested in leasing, so here's what I was offered: $390/month (including 7%tax), $995 due signing, 36 months @ 12k miles/year. The car has Launch, Touring, 17" wheels and is manual.

The car should be ready for pick today in the evening, so if there are no surprises I should be driving my new SAAB very soon. Wohoooo!!!

I'll post an update as soon everything is completed!!

rgc2200 · January 2003

there have been many past discussions re: speakers. some have spliced in 8" speakers in the empty areas. i've been to the best custom stereo place, and they hadn't seen a '03 9-3 yet, and were researching issues related to interfacing with the infortainment and future onstar and upgrading the rear sound (probably with an additional amp). mooselook just put speakers in if you search through prior posts. i have 2500 miles on my 9-3, no vibrations, (nothing soft on the dash!) and am still quite happy with the ride, heated seats, and my options (launch/touring/5 speed). would have liked memory seats (though I'm the only driver), a leather arm rest and the ability to switch from am to fm without hitting the source button twice. its been 10-15 degrees in Philly, and i take right off without warming up and note a little more lag (but who punches the accelerator when you first start up anyway). i'm a little jealous of the deals out there now. i paid about $1500 more than the cheapest $$ i've seen, but got 0 down for 3 months and 0% apr for 36 months. no lease deals when I purchased, which was forced by my 00 9-3 coming off lease. . .

jat8 · January 2003

Just an FYI. Have had my new Linear for about 2 weeks. Had trouble with locks initially then no problem until yesterday. While driving drivers door was noted to be open. Brought it in late yesterday to dealer. They are ordering new lock system which will be put in on Monday. Until then I have to lock manually and don't have use of alarm. I live in Philly area temps have been brutal. I dont know whether that was a factor.
Also took my a few days to figure out lights need to be in "on" positoin for all the backlights on dash to illuminate. From the temp. control knobs down were not on until I turned lights on.

blitzin1 · January 2003

Just picked up a factoid I hadn't heard about previously- When reading the book about the design/production of the '03 9-3 (which isn't really about the car so much as the design process and in which every damn photo is an "artistic" blurred shot) it did mention one or two good facts in what was otherwise drivel. Apparently the Manual tranny is completely shift by wire, with no rods or manual connections. So all the talk here about syncros, notchiness, etc. really just comes down to how Saab programmed the software.

oldsman01 · January 2003

That looks like a pretty good lease deal you got and about what I'm looking for. The only change I'd have to make is 15K a year for mileage. Heck, I'd even do $1500 down.

brucec35 · January 2003

Malango - I figured you could find close to what you wanted if you looked hard enough. I was gonna suggest ordering if you had time and patience to wait. But did want to mention that some salesmen will NOT be honest about what's really available, since they may or may not have some incentive to sell what's already on the lot at the time. Or, they may do a quick, lazy search off a printout and miss your unit.

Zeroch - wife's 9-3 squeaks too a little when pulling in at slow speed to the garage. No biggie, brakes fantastic on the road.

Hungshy - About your rear lock problem. I may have missed your original post, but could it be that the child safety slide on the back door is set to disable the back switch?

Also, locks are really pretty simple, so you should get it back to the dealer and make them do it right if the above isn't the problem.

As for warmup, I would just take it easy on the revs until the temp needle moves up some. They may counsel against warming up in place to avoid someone poisoning themselves in their garage that's closed up.

Cermedes- Warmup: True, it warms up faster if you drive, but you're also putting more revs on the engine vs. idling, so that pretty much cancels out the faster warmup with faster wear on the poorly lubricated cylinders.

Telematics: The reason they didn't put the GPS stuff on is that surveys show that only about 1% of cars are bought with them. It goes up in higher priced cars, sure, but they may have made a decision not to waste engineering assets at rollout worrying about that. They are busy trying to get new models out to get business back on track, and Saab is a small company. I suspect that lack of a GPS nav system wouldn't be a big factor for the vast majority of drivers. Read any car mag, most people don't use them or dont' like using them. They suggest learning to read a map and making a few route notes before you leave. Unless you're a salesman making calls or day or doing deliveries, I think they're just a cool toy, anyway. I owned an expensive Garmin handheld unit and never really could find any reason to use it, so I sold it. And I have to look up addresses in my business every day. The map was just faster and easier. And from what I hear and see online, the routes the sytems make for you are rarely the best way to get anywhere. Just the limitations of the computer mind.

Massappeal - I put in 6x9 Infinity reference 3 ways. Helps balance a lot, but still lacks low bass. I guess there is some sort of filter further up the chain. When the car becomes more popular, I will check into improving it.

Wmguan? - Soft touch? No, all plastic. Why? Are you planning on sitting on the dash or leaning against it while napping? It is plastic, but it looks good and I think better than some of the others. And unless I'm touching it, looks is what counts.

Peter 777- no vibrations here.

anonymouscuban · January 2003

Sorry man... you asked me a couple of questions a while back and I never replied. Been real busy lately.

The 1st time we took the car to the dealer they provided us with a loaner Nissan. When we bought the Saab, we were told we'd get another Saab. I can't really complain though since they did give a car. Never got that with our Honda's.

As for the color, we went with the Silver.

Couple of questions:

1. How the heck do you do for a key chain for the FOB?

2. Has anyone looked into integrating a cell phone into the Infotainment system? There is a phone option with Onstar but that requires a seperate phone number. Is there a way to use your current cell through the system?

Thanks!

massappeal106 · January 2003

Brucec35: Thanks for the info on the 6x9 speakers. A couple of questions. Did you have them professionally installed? If you did them yourself, did you disconnect the existing speakers and use the harness, or were you able to splice into something else? Where did you purchase the harness for the 6x9s?

Any other information in the installation of the speakers would be greatly appreciated.

Also, have you been able to have the dealer program anything such as: horn sounding when you arm the car, automatic locking when the exceeds a certain mph? Or, anything else?

Thanks for your help!

joeandcarol2 · January 2003

The shifter on the 9-3 is connected to the tranny by cables. This is common on many front wheel drive cars. There is no shift by wire. your information is flawed.

wmquan · January 2003

Soft touch? No, all plastic. Why? Are you planning on sitting on the dash or leaning against it while napping? It is plastic, but it looks good and I think better than some of the others. And unless I'm touching it, looks is what counts.

Thanks for the response. Ha, no, I'm not planning on leaning on it. But while it is true that the original functional purpose of a padded dash disappeared with front airbags, the fact remains that most consider a hard plastic dash a negative in a near-luxury or luxury vehicle.

Of course, it's only one small detail and should not be a deal-breaker. But I'm also happy to disagree with you that while the dash isn't thickly padded, it actually is, at least partly, soft touch, like Volvo's. The darker plastic shroud around the instrument cluster and console are hard plastic, but the dash console behind it and stretching to the glove box have thin padding and thus "give" for that semi-luxurious feel.

So it's all good and I certainly think that's a positive at this price range.

wmquan · January 2003

Current as of this week, after doing some of my own shopping and chatting up the dealers. What made it hard to find was that Edmunds doesn't list any of these. Couldn't find anything on cars.com either.

I have no idea when some of these will expire, some may already be gone.

- $1,000 incentive on the Launch Package, as mentioned here before.

- $1,500 incentive if you do not use any special Saab financing or leasing. Good for folks paying partly or fully in cash. $2,500 off!

Special lease deals of varying types. Some expired 1/31 but there'll probably be more.

Question: Invoices show a Saab advertising fee of $150 and a $130 prep & handling fee. Is this really in Saab invoices, or is it just in a phony invoice that I've heard of some (not Saab) dealers making?

Thanks!

hungshy · February 2003

Thanks for brucec35 good advice... I did test that too.
I sent car to dealer for door lock quick check up. I stand on site to watch them fixed the door. It's really interesting to see one person tried to fix it and no idea at all. Then he brought another one also no idea. Then they both went brought higher level tech to see it together. Like a brain storm meeting to discuse why this lock can't be operated by remote. Finally they come to asked me how the situatin happend at the beginning.... Then they called saabusa for tech advice. took it like hour and half to figure how to fix it now. But they told me this is just temporary fixed. I need to send the car back nect week for wiring check through. They also will provide me the loaner car next week.... What a big story about the door lock.
I think that I am happy with dealer's service. At least I can open and close the door with remote now.

wmquan · February 2003

Relatively cheap lease deals are continuing into February, to at least the end of the month:

http://www2.saabusa.com/leasen/default.asp?m=93&t=l&src=9- 3s

With it you can't use certain discounts, like the $1,500 incentive that was in effect last month and may be continuing to this month too. The $1,000 Launch Package discount should still be there and combinable with the lease, however.

oldsman01 · February 2003

Saw the first ever 9-3 TV ad last night, it was the one with the engineers at the test track. It was okay, but they could have done better. At the end it listed a 9-3 36 month lease for $299 with $999 down. Couldn't read all the fine print and I would bet that is for 12K annually. Still, that is a pretty good lease deal. I would imagine though that this is based on a base Linear with no options, something which most here have said is hard to find. Still, if even the basic model can be leased for $299 a month, I would think a better equipped model would still lease at a pretty good price.

wmquan · February 2003

oldsman01,

The link in post #835 has more details on the $999 down, $299/month deal. I'm afraid it is only for 10k miles annually, not 12k, and it is indeed for the base vehicle without any options (e.g. Launch package, Touring package, automatic, heated seats, sport package).

Higher mileages will cost more. The 10k miles price goes up significantly from $299 for equipped vehicles, to around the mid-three hundred range depending on options and what kind of deal you can strike on the vehicle value to be capitalized.

Nevertheless, I've found the leasing to be pretty attractive and there definitely seems to be some subsidizing in there. Part/most of that subsidy is paid for the fact that if you lease, you cannot get the $1,500 incentive (which only applies if you don't use Saab Financing for loans or leases). So that $1,500 is being applied to discount the lease. However, you do get the $1,000 incentive on the Launch Package if you lease.

needashave · February 2003

Do you have any more information on the $1500 incentive? According to the GM site the incentive is only $1000.
http://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/pdfs/supnc_2003.pdf

wmquan · February 2003

Do you have any more information on the $1500 incentive? According to the GM site the incentive is only $1000.

Hi. Isn't that document specific to GM-supplier discounts?

The $1,000 discount that I mentioned is not a GM-supplier discount but a general incentive to the dealers -- I think it has something to do with the Launch Package.

The $1,500 discount I mentioned is apparently some incentive that can be used if one elects not to use Saab discounted financing (leasing).

I could not find any information on either the $1,000 or $1,500 incentives on Edmunds or Cars.com! Wish there was a way to better identify this!

But they are (were? don't know the expiration dates) legitimate. I'm not a GM supplier, and the dealer I spoke too the last week of January was ready to give me the $1,000 discount on top of the near-invoice pricing we were discussing -- if I leased. Or, he offered that if I bought the vehicle for invoice - $2,500 + some small margin above invoice, I could do that as well so long as I used my own financing.

Getting a $2,500 discount on purchase, or a $1,000 discount alongside a subsidized lease, on a vehicle priced near invoice before discounts is a very good deal. Especially when it's for such a fine vehicle!

I would bet that the $1,500 incentive for non-discount-financed purchases is still on. Why? Because the subsidized lease deal is still on. They're really one and the same; with the lease, the $1,500 is used to subsidize the lease (behind the scenes, not in the lease docs, reflected more in the low money factor/APR).

wmquan · February 2003

Is the Touring Package's ACC dual-zone (like the Arc/Vector), or is it just single-zone?

TIA.

jdisan · February 2003

Just heard from the dealer that he just receved a written update the first Arc and Vectors will arrive in showrooms on March 13th.

needashave · February 2003

Wow, these are great lease deals. This sounds like a better deal than owning, with the added benefit of being able to give the car back in three years. One dealer in my area is offering $269/$999 leases (for the base car).

renee_etoile · February 2003

hm I thought the non-special leasing or financing rebate was $1000 not $1500. Does anyone know where I can find these listings? I'm a bit weary as to how my dealers may act when I bring these incentives up- they may completely deny them.

needsashave: still looking huh? I think I've contacted about 8 dealerships around the area and all of them piss me off. Half of them give me the feeling that they aren't even serious about selling and the latter are all too incessant with their pushing.

wmquan · February 2003

The $299/$1000 down deal is only 10k miles and is based on the $26,525 base vehicle. Add more miles, add nearly $6k in options easily and of course it'll be significantly more. But still a good lease deal because the $1,500 seems to really subsidze it. ($6k in options = $5,625 for Launch, Touring, heated seats, automatic, and metallic paint -- your options may vary).

Ultimately you still pay more for leasing but it has certain advantages. They're better explained in the leasing forums here but they include getting a better vehicle for a lower monthly payment, managing your current cash flow, and reducing potential risk if you are questioning whether or not the vehicle is what you want long-term. With the new-ness of the 9-3, that third item may be big -- a 36 month lease may let you if the 9-3 will be spectacular over time or a pumpkin. Plus you get free scheduled maintenance over that time too!

(Obviously the leasing negatives apply here ... it still costs more, you have to make sure you get gap insurance, don't go over the mileage limit or they'll really mess with you, and don't get the vehicle really beat up. Also, I think you'll find yourself not wanting to accessorize the vehicle since they have virtually no value at the end of the lease.)

Some quotes I got have the residual at 54%, which isn't great, but it may actually be optimistic given that Saabs don't seem to hold their value well.

wmquan · February 2003

I'm surprised your dealerships aren't anxious to sell. It's not like the new 9-3 is selling beyond belief. They seem pretty hungry around here (Seattle area).

Try calling a dealer and say that you've been talking to another dealership and you were offered the $1,000+$1,500 incentives, but now want to talk price with them. If they pretend to have not heard of it, they're either lying or the incentives really doesn't exist. If they're on the up-and-up and the deal is real, they'll go, "yeah, those are really good deals, huh?"

I had thought the non-financing incentive was $1,000 as well, based on posts here. But I'm not sure who/what the original source was? My source for the $1,500 was a local dealer. I don't think he was making it up because he seemed fine with my acquisition method either way -- I could lease it with the subsidized deal, or I could get financing from my credit union (or their non-Saab banks) and buy it for $1,500 less than the lease value.

My only question is whether the true Saab invoice actually includes a Saab advertising cost and a prep & handling fee. Edmunds does not list these costs but Edmunds also says that they can be legitimate parts of an invoice. Is it possible that some folks here who say they got $2,000 below invoice (Edmunds invoice - $1,000 - $1,000), actually got the $2,500 (invoice with advertising and prep included - $1,000 - $1,500), and their price happened to net out to look like $2,000 off Edmunds invoice?

I'll have to see a real invoice to be sure.

Good luck! I really like the vehicle, it fits my own buying priorities really well (below $30k loaded, very high level of safety, some degree of luxury, some sportiness, some cargo room, good features, and at least "average" reliability). Well, hopefully the last one will be fulfilled!

needashave · February 2003

Yep, still looking. I finally got to the Patrick Dealer on Saturday and test drove the car. The car is very well assembled and handled almost as good as the 3-series, with a bit more needed space in the interior. The non-launch linears are now in. The car I drove had just the automatic, moonroof and heated seats and listed for about $29,300. My math says that cost of ownership over three years is actually a few thousand less with the lease than the buy. Of course this is based on the resale values of the old 9-3. Anyone see this differently? All in all, for a few grand more than a Passat, the Sabb appears to be a great value.

wmquan · February 2003

My math says that cost of ownership over three years is actually a few thousand less with the lease than the buy. Of course this is based on the resale values of the old 9-3. Anyone see this differently?

I compared leasing vs. buying in my case. There's no question that with a good lease, through a three-year period, the out-of-pocket will be less with the lease than the purchase. This, so long as you don't go past the mileage allowance and return the vehicle in good condition. There is a $350 disposition fee if you return the vehicle; make sure you know what the cost will be.

Over the long run, however, leasing will be more expensive. E.g. running two 3-year leases consecutively will cost more than buying one vehicle and financing it. Even though you pay for maintenance after 3 years on the Saab, ownership still ends up cheaper because there is at least some resale value after six years. Of course, with leasing you have two new vehicles in that time rather than just one.

Make sure you live in a state that only applies sales tax to the cap cost reduction and monthly payment on your lease. There are a few states that make you pay the sales tax on the entire vehicle amount.

Like you, I was very seriously considering a Passat. A GLS 1.8T was my second choice. VW has 3.5% financing for up to 60 months right now, and dealers are willing to give good prices. The 9-3 is sportier than the Passat, perhaps as good as you can get with a FWD sedan. It also has more safety features than the Passat, which is due for a brand new version next year.

To me, Saab dealers have to discount the 9-3 well because some folks like me would buy an Audi A4 1.8T quattro if it was closer in price. Less effective power and tighter accommodations, but a higher degree of luxury and AWD and better resale.

jdisan · February 2003

Speaking of having to discount..has anybody thought about the new Acura TSX vs. the Saab???

http://www.hondanews.com/forms/acura/TSX/

I just heard about this, priced at 25 to 30k fully loaded. Aimed to go head to head with the 325, saab 9-3, and Audi 1.8t..Looks pretty nice. Hits showrooms in April as a 2004 model. I was set to go for the Saab, but this has made me pause a bit..

wmquan · February 2003

The new TSX should be a good vehicle, and it will likely have some of the same pros and cons of a number of Japanese sporty vehicles vs. the European ones.

Being FWD like the Saab, it won't have the driving dynamics of, say, a 3-series. The Saab may be the best-handling FWD sedan out there, we'll see how the TSX does.

The TSX will be almost certainly be more reliable and have better resale than the 9-3.

Knowing Acura dealers, they will try to gouge on the TSX price initially and then try to keep the price at MSRP for as long as they can (see the TL's first 18 months, and the MDX's first two+ years). That should make the price comparison more than just comparing MSRP's.

It finally adds side-curtain airbags, which the TL currently doesn't have. While the Linear's interior isn't full-luxury, I doubt if the TSX's will too based on other Acura vehicles (they always seem to be below comparable Lexus and European vehicles).

I still have some skepticism that the Japanese vehicles really compete as well as the European ones on safety. Honda has done very well in focusing on crash tests but it's questionable if they've addressed a number of other areas that are not currently measured by tests. E.g. whiplash reduction, seat back strength, etc. Indeed, there is currently an NHTSA investigation into relatively recent model Honda/Acura sedans on problems with the seat back pins potentially causing a collapse.

jdisan · February 2003

good insights and I am a European fan so the Saab Vector still is at the top of my list (especially vs a japanese car)...But i'll still have to see how it (and the TSX) drives. Also, MSRP or no, $28K fully loaded vs. $35k for a fully loaded Vector..that becomes significant. Although a full equipment list has not been published..from the link above it looks like similarly equipped to a loaded Vector.

Also, and i was surprised, the interior looks quite nice and pretty high quality - we'll see what it looks like in person.

wmquan · February 2003

Yes, I am curious too to see how it turns out. I couldn't wait too long on my vehicle, unfortunately.

I bet it'll be a good vehicle, but whether or not it's better than the 9-3 will come down to one's priorities.

Notice that the new TSX engine is typical Honda: 200 hp looks good, but the engine is only 166 lbs of torque (the basic Linear is almost the reverse).

The Acura navigation system is excellent for those who want a nav system.

I've already seen complaints from some Honda/Acura fans who wonder why someone would buy the TSX over a $25k Accord EX V6, which has 240hp/212lbs torque in a roomier platform. Obviously the focus of the vehicles are different and the TSX should handle better, but we'll see.

Will the Vector really sell at $35k? With the discounts mentioned in previous posts, you can buy a Linear for about $28k. Still, the TSX will be cheaper.

hungshy · February 2003

It looked nice for 5 minutes to me. Don't know if anyone find out this new model looks like Mazda 6.
anyway, after I drove Saab and become the current owner. They seem to me like looking back to the past....

malango · February 2003

Well... after some delays in the dealer trade process, I was able to pick up my SAAB 93 linear last Friday (see post 823 as reference. The car is gorgeous: Black with parchment interiors, launch, touring, 17 wheels, and stick [non-permissible content removed]. Ohhh I almost forgot it has heated seats, although a useless option here in South Florida. Here are the details of the deal The car was discounted approx. $2,200 (dont have the exact numbers here with me) off sticker price ($31,610), plus $495 of bank fees bringing the net cap cost to $29,900. Saab Financial was offering great lease rates. The rate they offered me was .00022 (=0.5% APR). Due to this low money factor I decided to go the lease way. The residual was calculated at 52% of MSRP with 15,000 miles/year. With the above parameters, the monthly payment calculated was $407/month and $1,100 was due at sign-in (including fist month). So far Im very pleased with the deal I got. Dont know if with the numbers being mentioned in other post I could have done better, but its a done deal.

For those trying to estimate how the lease numbers would look like by adding options and more miles, the only thing that changes is the residual. The money factor is the same regardless of the options and mileage selected. The residuals are as follows (The residuals are always calculated using the MSRP, not the final sale price): 54% @10,000 miles/year (this the rate advertised), 53% @12,000 miles/year (I was quoted this rate), and 52% @15,000 miles/year (what I got). If you want to run some numbers and get a good estimate, I found the lease calculator in this site to be very useful: http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm.

And did I mention that the car is stunning... I cant stop staring at it. Every time a fiend asks me what car I got and I tell them a Saab, I get the are-you-using-drugs face coupled with they are nice cars. Once they see it, they are all astonished by the elegance of the car and immediately comes the Your car is awesome, now coupled with a smiling face.

cermedes · February 2003

According tp Saab's customer service a Navigation System is going to be available on the 93 for the 04 Model Year.
I picked up an accessory brochure this weekend from the local Saab dealer. It shows a Navi screen in three or four shots where they show accessory wood trim etc.
So I asked the dealer, they said the Navi system is not and won't be available on the 93....maybe for MY05.
That's two years away! I hope that Saab's customer service is correct, for the Navi to be available for 04.
Even that's sad since you can get a lousy
Honda Accord with a Navi already today.

brucec35 · February 2003

I like the Acura TSX too, but if you want an automatic it will probably be a dog with such a low torque rating. And let's face it, you're talking a 4 cylinder Accord here, with a nicer interior and some suspension and trim tweaks. Less expensive than the 9-3, but also less car. As a lower cost manual car, it's a pretty nice ride...finally a Honda with decent looks.

As far as leasing a 9-3 costing less...that depends. If you're going to switch cars in 3 years anyway, maybe. If you always trade in and take the hit vs. selling it yourself, maybe. If you really do drive only the 10-12K miles allowed, maybe. And if you get a really good lease deal, maybe.

But usually leasing is more expensive in the long run. One reason people in the car biz love leasing. As far as comparing leasing to buying based on residual history of the OLD 9-3, that would be a mistake. The new car is a superior design, and the old car, despite it's charms, was distinctly inferior in areas the masses of people look at, to its competition. So I would expect an '03 model to hold its value a little better if it turns out to be reliable, which might throw off your math.

wmquan · February 2003

Congratulations on your new 9-3!!!

Is your monthly payment of $407 before or after sales tax? Thanks.

I agree with you that this vehicle is very underrated. A lot of people are surprised to hear that you have a Saab, and they're thinking "weird, quirky, unreliable, strange-looking, not sporty, what the heck was he thinking?" Only if they get more information and/or ride/drive the vehicle do they understand.

And ironically, the previous 9-3 and the current 9-5 are both "above average" in Consumer Reports, better than the Volvos that some folks compare them too (and hopefully the first-year model will be okay).

wmquan · February 2003

Leasing provides a dealer a lot of ways to wring profits out of a customer. The equations and terminology are more complex than a simple loan. There are plenty of places to hide additional cost in a lease, whether it's adjusting the leasing fees at the front or end of the deal, playing with the cap cost, changing the money factor or residual, etc. Too many leasees end up focusing more on what they're going to pay monthly.

I agree that resale on this 9-3 will probably be better than the previous 9-3, but I'm still concerned over potentially low demand. E.g. the soft economy, combined with the fact that the vehicle is already discounted $2,500 (purchase price) after it's been on the market for a few months (and some discounts came earlier). Usually, new European introductions get only modest discounts for the first year, even in a tough market.

If the resale value does turn out surprisingly well, that may benefit leasees. Current residual values are computed at 52% - 54% of MSRP. If the vehicle exceeds that, it makes purchasing it at lease-end more attractive. Though it's almost always more expensive to lease+buy than to just buy. And more expensive to just lease vs. buy.

malango · February 2003

The $407/month includes a 7% sales tax with 15,000 miles/year.

renee_etoile · February 2003

Both of your posts got me thinking a bit more, but ultimately I decided to go with purchasing- even if I end up selling after just three years. One, my insurance coverage goes up with leasing. Two, I am almost positive I will go above 10k/yr. Three, as wmquan said, more hidden costs.

needashave: I've been contacting the exchange, gartner, and flikkema who are all giving me quotes of 27ish for auto, launch, heated. I need to get my credit cleared(as I moved to the states only three years ago and lack a solid history) before I start negotiating hardcore.

I was under the impression you were going with the exchange. What made you lean towards shopping with Patrick's?

I have a friend who is also interested in purchasing a Saab, although she wants to wait for the arc. Gets me thinking...if both of us were to rush in and buy two at one time, would the dealers give better prices? hm, if so I hope she decides to go with a linear instead of waiting.

oldsman01 · February 2003

Thats not a bad price at all. In fact, I'd be willing to pay that a month for a 36 month/15K lease on a well equipped 9-3 with that small of an amount down. The problem I'm seeing with alot of the "attractive" lease deals that are advertised on many cars is they want 2-3K down. To me, thats getting a bit much for a down payment on a lease as one of the benefits of leasing is the lower initial cash outlay.

dindak · February 2003

I saw on DJ new today, Saab sales were up 62% in January. 9-3 has really pumped thing up for them!

wmquan · February 2003

Just out of curiousity, though -- are sales being up 62% as big as it sounds? Oh, I'm sure it's good news (better than being flat!). But consider that the old vehicle was not selling well and was not very competitive in the eyes of many buyers. Plus last January was only a few months after 9/11 and sales were depressed for a number of vehicles. So it was inevitable that there'd be a sales jump.

One reason I ask is because Saab is already offering large discounts for a vehicle that is barely out of the gate. That's not something that's typical of European luxury or near-luxury cars.

Just curious, I'm not bashing the vehicle. The new vehicle, especially with discounts, is a very attractive proposition.

malango · February 2003

Here's a link to the Saab sales report for Jan 03.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030203/autos_saab_table_1.html

Saab 9-3 Sedan

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