Volvo XC90 SUV

crikey · October 2002

The achilles heal is the lack of low end grunt. The vehicle accelerates adequately (we never got a chance to see how it did from 40-60), but it isn't going to bring a smile to the face or an imprint in the seat.

Thanks for sharing your observations/impressions of your XC90 testdrive.

According the XC90 specs, 280ft./lbs. of torque is available between 1800 to 5000 rpm. Are you saying that this is not enough for low end grunt? What is your point of reference, i.e. another SUV of similar engine specifications, to compare the lack of low end grunt? Is this observation for the 2.5T or the T6?

If I compare the 2003 MDX to the XC90, the XC90 gives out some pretty decent torque. Based on wmquan "Acura MDX" Sep 26, 2002 3:17pm the MDX has 223 ft./lbs.@1500 rpm to its maximum of 250 ft./lbs. between 3500 to 5000 rpm. An MDX with Touring Package has a curb weight of 4473 lbs. The only difference is that the MDX has a 5-speed tranny while the XC90 T6 has 4-speed tranny?

I do agree that the XC90 is not a performance vehicle but I would be concerned with the lack of low end power given the scenario that you presented -- 7 passengers + cargo + A/C on + merging into highway traffic.

greenlatern · October 2002

I watched the Motorweek presentation and it looked like the second row would be pretty tight for someone of your stated size. Did you sit in it and if so what were your impressions. Would a driver have to slide forward to accomdate a 6'2" backseat passenger? How was the shoulder and headroom in the front seat? Any wind/road noise?

Thanks.

wmquan · October 2002

Perhaps it is more of a gearing issue, and even a throttle control issue?

Gearing would affect how much of that extra torque is delivered, and the throttle pedal may deliver differently.

crikey · October 2002

But full 280 ft./lbs. of torque is available at 1500 rpm which can be easily obtained no matter how the gears or the throttle control is set.

porknbeans · October 2002

Numbers aside, I'm going from what I felt. The acceleration was even, but far from strong. I think that the T6 (which is what we drove on the performance track) was better than the T5, but it was tough to tell under the conditions I drove them. I turned the a/c off, rolled the windows up and used the manu/matic. I was unable to get the vehicle to the 70 mph they said that you should be going by the end of the straight portion. Nobody that I talked to was able to get it to 70 (sampling of about 10-12). I had it in the low 60's and that was one of the best I heard. The performance portion had two straight portions. The first was from the starting line and the tires would chirp, but was tough to feel a strong pull from there out. Mind you, there was pull, it just wasn't "strong". The second straight was after a soft u-turn from the first straight. This one you actually started from say 10-20 mph depending on how fast you came through the corner. This second straight was the one that you were supposed to hit 70 on. The T5 wasn't available for performance, but rather the wet/dry driving characteristics. If the T6 has that high of torque it's having trouble reaching the road. One of the guys from Volvo that I talked to said that the 4 speed was used in the T6 because of the torque and the space issue. I like the XC90, but have to wonder about it under a load. WRT others that I have driven in the same category: MB ML320, Acura MDX, Buick Rendevous and Lexus RX300. Since I don't own any of them I'm referencing from test drives taken some time ago.

Second row seating was good. With the drivers seat pushed all of the way back my knees did touch the seat backs. However, I know of VERY few people that drive with the seat all of the way back. Under "normal" driving position in the front I had about 2" between my knees and the seat back with plenty of room then to move my feet. Head room was good, but shoulder room would be "cozy" with three abreast. I didn't sit in the second row with more than one other person so I'm guessing on that. Overall impression is that it is very comfortable for four average to slightly above average sized people. Adequate for shorter trips for five of the same size. BTW, this is from the 7 passenger option. The 5 passenger version improves the second row seating.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you want more.

crikey · October 2002

So, based on your MDX and XC90 testdrives, which one would you pick? How would you assess the MDX under similar load situations?

Also, in the 7-passenger option, were you aware that the 2nd row seats can be adjusted forwards/backwards? This could either improve 2nd row legroom or 3rd row legroom depending on which way the 2nd row is adjusted.

greenlatern · October 2002

porknbeans -- thanks for the details on your test drive. Performance numbers are nice but in the end they're still just numbers and a test drive will tell anyone interested what they really need to know. I appreciate your observations. FWIW, Motorweek offered up a 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds for the T-6, which seems to align with your impressions. I don't recall the quarter mile numbers but if the episode is still on my Tivo tonight I'll post them.

porknbeans · October 2002

If I had to pick I would choose the XC. You probably won't go wrong with either of them so the reasons are purely personal. I think that the exterior looks better on the Volvo than the Acura. The interior layout seemed more pleasing to me on the Volvo than in the Acura also. I really didn't fiddle a great deal with switches and overall layout so there is some questions to be answered there. Fit and finish seemed similar and the materials and comfort seemed comparable. As far as operation under loads I think that the Acura may do a little better. This is just my gut talking again no facts to back it up. The Acura also seemed to have more room behind the third row. So why would I choose the 90? A bunch of little things. The split tailgate is a simplistic stroke of genius. The location of vents in the B and C pillars as well as under the seats is nice. The removable center console/integral child seat that slid forward. The way that you gain access to the third row was easy and convenient (for somebody smaller and less ruebenesque). This last point brings me to the answer to your other question. Yes, I did know that it slides forward and back, but I couldn't even get it latched. Good question though and sorry that I didn't mention it before.

Greenlatern - If you can find those numbers please post them, I'd like to find out if my butt has a good feel for this stuff or if I should look for a new one.

crikey · October 2002

is available at Motorweek XC90 review

0-60 mph: 8.8 seconds

1/4 mile: 16.3 seconds @ 87 mph

60-0 mph: 128 feet

porknbeans - XC90 is my first choice with MDX a very close 2nd. And I was not aware that there were airvents under the seats. That sure is a better setup along with the pillar vents.

grennlantern - can't agree with you more. A back-to-back testdrive between the 2.5T/T6 XC90 and the 2003 MDX will tell me which vehicle I really want to live with. And then, price would be the deciding factor.

jrosasmc · October 2002

Even when the base FWD XC90 comes out early next year, will it still have the Geartronic feature on the tranny as standard?

frizzell · October 2002

Nobee-
Capitol is the only dealer here in Italy for Volvo. I'll ask the guy today when I see him. But I agree it is a great deal either way, when you start 3k less than MSRP.

nippononly · October 2002

has anyone noticed what a steal this thing is going to be, if it really sells at $35K? The only thing I am afraid of is that in good Volvo tradition of late, there will be no base models, only tons of option packages...

At its base price, it is cheaper than RX300, QX4, even cheaper than Volvo's own XC70! Would love to drive this thing...

frizzell · October 2002

Which dealer are you using? The offer is free lights and/or metallic paint right? The guy here hasn't heard about it but is willing to look into it. More info please.

porknbeans · October 2002

The price that was quoted for base T5 with front wheel drive was $33,900 and the T6, AWD was around $41 +/-

crikey · October 2002

...is available on all XC90s -- 5-speed with 2.5T engine(FWD and AWD), and 4-speed on T6 engine.

stevel9 · October 2002

My wife and I also participated in the Volvo event this past Saturday in Chicago. I've got a 4.4 X5 and my wife has an MDX. Overall I was impressed with the XC90; it will certainly be a strong contender -- a fine "mom mobile". Porkandbeans did a great job of describing the event. If you decide to go, be prepared to spend a lot of time waiting in line.

I drove the performance course twice and the 2nd time I was able to get up to 80mph on the 2nd straight away -- punched the accelerator coming out of the U-turn and ignored the speed limit signs in the S curves before the straight. Steering was light (too light for my taste) and handling was very good and balanced.

2nd row seating was comfortable for the outboard passengers, but the middle seat was quite uncomfortable. 3rd row was comparable to the MDX. Cargo space behind the 3rd row is larger than the MDX; probably big enough to hold a cooler.

From a strictly performace point of view, the X5 is head and shoulders above the XC90. The X5 handles much better. It's probably not a fair comparison, but acceleation is much stronger; my X5 would have easily been 90+ on the performance course. Obviously there is much more cargo space in the XC90.

nippononly · October 2002

between XC90 and X5 - how much? Is it more than $5000? I was looking at T5 AWD, which starts at $35,575.

X5 seems to be more of a sports car-SUV, whereas XC90 seems like more of an all-rounder, occasional soft-roader even, kind if like Honda Pilot. X5 has such low-profile tires on it, I would be scared to even venture onto a dirt road with it.

crikey · October 2002

I like the X5 but it certainly is short on utility, which is why BMW coined it an SAV - Sport Activity Vehicle - and rightfully so. If I had no need for cargo space and could spare the extra premium over the XC90, I would probably look at the X5. That being said, I don't think that the comparing the performance of the X5 and XC90 is a fair comparison, however.

crikey · October 2002

FYI, The T5 in the S60 pumps out 247hp and is not the same engine as the 2.5T. The 2.5T will go into the XC90, not the T5.

volvomax · October 2002

There isn't much difference in base price, but when you equip the 2 vehicles the X5 is $9,000 more than thew XC90 T6!
A 7pass T6 w/ prem pkg, Cold Weather and Xenons is @45,000.The comparable X5 is @54,000.
The difference is greater if you go with a 5 passenger T6.
BMW= Bring Money With.

porknbeans · October 2002

Way to go on the second straight!! I did the performance drive only once, but came nowhere near your numbers.

crikey · October 2002

Rumor has it that the MSRP on the 2.5T FWD is going to be reduced, is the rumor accurate?
How will that affect the pricing of 2.5T AWD?
If Volvo is indeed reducing the MSRP, why is that being done considering that all vehicles for the initial model year has been allocated?

john01 · October 2002

I don't think you can compare the price of XC90 to that of 4.4 Liter X5, personally I don't see the point of X5, but, I digress. Performance-wise, XC90, even with T6, would be comparable to the 3.0 liter, which would be about $7,000 or so less than the 4.4 liter version. Sure, XC90 has more horsepower than the X5 3.0, but X5 is still faster off the line.

greenlatern · October 2002

The point of the X5 is to make lots and lots of money for BMW and it's dealers. Ohhhhhh, from an OWNERSHIP perspective...as I heard it long ago, BMW supposedly did a marketing study and discovered a large number of 5 and 7 series owners also had a Jeep Grand Cherokee which they needed for bad weather. The X5 was developed to give them a bad-weather BMW alternative to the JGC. The point of My X5 is to get me and my snowboard up to the mountains when the powder is deep and not handle/ride like a truck the rest of the time.

That being said I doubt many people will cross-shop the X5 and the XC90. My interest in the XC90 is as a possible replacement to my wife's minivan, but even that's a few years out. It wouldn't surprise me if most people shopping 3 row SUVs were viewing them as minivan alteratives.

serfatylaw · October 2002

Does anyone know what the monthly lease payment will be on a nicely equipped T6?

volvomax · October 2002

I did compare the X5 3.0 w/ the XC90T6. Did it right here on Edmunds. As I said when you look at the base prices there isn't any difference, BUT when you option them out AND make the equipment the same between them(except for the 7 pass option on the T6) the price difference is large.
I shudder to think what a well equipped X54.4 is!!

volvomax · October 2002

Not really, you see the AWD is an option on the 2.5T to begin with. Its only standard on the T6.
The actual price breakdown

Base Price XC90 2.5T $33,350
Destination $625
AWD $1,750
Total $35,725

So for the FWD versions they will be 1750 less than the AWD versions. Look for the FWD version in early summer

pf01 · October 2002

According to the November issue of Automobile, the 2004 XC90 will be the first Volvo to have a 4L, 300HP engine, which is currently under development with Volve and Yamaha. My question is: if Volve can barely fit a 4-speed transmission with the 3L in-line 6, how are they going to fit a transmission more than 3-speed with the V8?

john01 · October 2002

I stand corrected. When I had looked into X5's last year, I can swear that it was much less than that. The 3.0 model can be loaded to gills at $54,000 and the 4.4 at $61,000. I may have been thinking about the military/diplomat prices.

john01 · October 2002

It depends on the angle of the V, I guess, but inline 6 is usually bulkier than V-8 with larger capacity. When BMW put 4.0 v8 in their M3 GTR race car, they found it to be more compact in dimensions and lighter than the 3.2 i6.

crikey · October 2002

This is what I meant about the price reduction:

Volvo lowers prices on XC90 FWD model:

Auto Spies World Exclusive: Volvo lowers prices on XC90 FWD model MSRP to be lowered

Volvo announced pricing for the XC90 a few weeks ago:

MSRP: XC90 FWD $33,350

XC90 AWD T6 $39,975

but were told the they have decided to lower the price of the FWD model to $31K and change! That's a killer deal for a great product!

Auto Spies perspective-How can you go wrong at those prices? That's less than the 'souless' Acura MDX! And it will undercut the VWSUV Touareg...and you get more cargo room and a third seat...

So, is this true? And how will that affect the 2.5T since AWD is an option, not a separate model.

stickguy · October 2002

AMI did a road test in the latest issue and was very positive. Also said that 3,000 orders (I think) have been taken, even though no one had seen the X90 in person.

volvomax · October 2002

Don't bet on it.
I spoke with Volvo, they have no plan to lower the price on any XC90.
The opposite may happen, currently the option pkgs have savings built into them. Volvo may raise the price of some of the option pkgs later in the year.

volvomax · October 2002

Well, the XC90 T6 will make the grade for the SUV tax break. GVWR will be 6,080 lbs.
This applies to the T6 7 pass version only!

stickguy · October 2002

Stopped by the local dealer Tuesday for their preview (more like a "coming out" party). Nice catered affair, good food. The place was packed, and if the crowd was any indication, their is some serious pent up demand for a Volvo SUV.

The preview car was a black T6, tan leather, Euro version (with the phone key pad, even a Euro license plate). Very nice looking, great interior and superb seats. Very well laid out. Middle seat had plenty of room, and my kids were quite happy in the 3rd row, which has a nifty cupholder/console in the middle. Lots of cargo room.

If this thing drives as well as it looks, it will do well.

I did speak to a saleswomen that I am friendly with, and she said they have orders for the first 6 months allotment, so unless people are wildly underwhelmed when they see and drive it, these will be hard to get for a while. Also, in the AMI article, they said the initial orders were about 85% T6, but that probably is because of early adapters wanting all the goodies, and it's also the only way to get 7 seats for now.

skyslimit · October 2002

I heard you can get 6-8% off msrp thru this program. Is that true even for the XC90 given the high demand? I called a few dealers and I'm hearing conflicting stories about this program.

Please advise.

stickguy · October 2002

Can be a very good deal, but the savings depend on the model. IIRC, the X90 will not be available for awhile through overseas delivery, probably not until they catch up with the demand.

Not sure if they still do so, but when I looked into it (about 1.5 years back), you got a free round-trip ticket to Sweden in the deal.

Actually, does anyone where the X90 is being built?

crikey · October 2002

...but it will have no such percentage savings, it will be sold at MSRP. However, the plane tickets are free.

XC90 is built in Sweden.

jebiv · October 2002

Here is what the dealer told me today. I am sure this is full price since they have a waiting list and it is brand new

2.5T with options at about $35k and $2495 down

36 month $693
39 month $679

T6 same $$ down with options at about $44k

36 month $810
39 month $790

He said that these are not exact, but I am sure they won't go down more than 30-40 per month.

I guess there is a high price to pay for safety.

skyslimit · October 2002

I spoke with the fleet manager at Oakland Volvo today and he said basically the way it works this:

Typically the dealer makes 6-8% off the car (mspr), but thru this program, you'd be buying it directly from Volvo in Sweden, which means you save about 6-8% including no destination fee. That's about $3000-3200 saving -- almost like buy a car without tax.

6 weeks from the time you place your order, you'd need to pay in the remaining amount before the car is built then your trip can arranged for a pickup. The only other catch is that is --- cash, no financing. The earliest pickup for the car would be in Feb/Mar if I were to order in the next few weeks. The free trip is for 2 people which include a roundtrip toEurope and no shipping charge for shipping the car back to the US. After your trip, you can have it shipped from several locations in Europe.

Driving the XC90 around Europe for a week would be a awesome experience! I might just go for this deal once I decide on the XC90 over the 03 MDX tour w/ Nav. The deciding factor will be the test drive at Alameda Point, SF next week 10/19 (http://www.volvodrive.com), which includes courses for Performance, Off-roading and Emergency manuveurs.

I'll post my report on the test drive and maybe include a link to pics I'll take.

kullenberg · October 2002

You probably won't get any discount right now, due to the demand, but the 2 free tickets are still out there. As to financing, Volvo Finance, I'm sure would be delighted to finance it or set up a lease. The've been doing it for years. Also, many banks are set up to do this sort of thing. Check B of A.

nobee · October 2002

Volvo Cars Korea Co. Ltd. Volvo cars Korea deals directly with the parent company via the General Manager in charge of the Military/Diplomatic sales headquartered out of Germany. FWIW, I purchased a 325i BMW through Capital Car Sales near Spangdahlem AB, GE and I seem to remember that they were also willing to discount the price on Volvo options as well.

If you don't mind, pls share your TDS buying experience on this board.

-nobee

nobee · October 2002

on the 2.5T, however, you'll need to purchase the premium pkg along with the versatility pkg.

-nobee

stickguy · October 2002

I know you can get it. I just thought it was going to be "late availability"

crikey · October 2002

Does the T6 have to have the Premium Package in addition to the Versatility to tip the scales? Or can one just get the T6 + Versatility and make the weight?

nobee · October 2002

-nobee

volvomax · October 2002

They don't say if you do or not, just that the 7 passenger version is the one that passes the weight limit.
There isnt anything in the Prem pkg that really adds weight, or the capability to carry more weight in the vehicle, which is what the 3rd seat adds.

crikey · October 2002

stever · October 2002

Who needs an MPV anymore?

Steve

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gmark2000 · October 2002

I received a couriered package today dated October 3rd from Volvo Canada. In this package, I got a 1:43 miniature die-cast metal XC90 and a letter from the Volvo Canada President and CEO.

The letter states:
"I am writing to congratulate you on your order of a new Volvo XC90 [I put $2000 down in May] and to provide to you an update of this highly anticipated new Volvo. We are committed to achieving the highest quality of any European luxury vehicle manufacturer and as such, are taking extra care to ensure that the XC90 meets our industry leading standards. This commitment, in concert with unprecedented worldwide demand, has impacted the arrival date of the XC90 and as a result the delivery of your new vehicle will be delayed until early 2003.

We understand the inconvenience this delay may present for your day-to-day transportation requirements and would like to offer you $1000 toward the purchase of genuine Volvo accessories to personalize your new XC90. This special offer is exclusive to XC90 presale customers. While precise timing is not currently available, your sales representative from Volvo of Oakville will contact you in the near future to provide you with a new delivery date and further details.

Volvo remains faithful to our core values of safety, environmental care and quality. Our models are unique, stylish and functional, and none more than the XC90 - a small reminder of which we have included in this package [the model car]. When your XC90 finds its way home in the New Year, I know you will not be disappointed.

Should you have any questions, please contact your sales representative at Volvo of Oakville to discuss in detail. Again, thank you for your business.

Regards,

Paul Cummings
President and CEO"

I guess the Canadian allotment is being redirected to the U.S. for now. I don't really mind the delay at this point.

Volvo XC90 SUV

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