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Comments
Bob
Sorry, for the number of questions but it seems like a confusing introduction in Ford's product line. It's not my intention to bring the Aviator down, I just have questions regarding the product placement. If you don't want a vehicle as large as the Navi, but like the look, this is a great offering. I thought that the Mountaineer was meant to fill that need. Any input?
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Hopefully Aviator does not get the silly rear taillight treatment that the Mountaineer gets?
The Aviator also has a different dash layout.
IMO, a Lincoln offering of the Explorer is upscale to a Mercury version. Afterall the Lincoln nameplate currently associated with the LS and Navigator is upscale to the Mercury Sable/Cougar/Mountaineer offerings.
I would imagine the Aviator would cannibalize some of the Mountaineer sales.
Unique features
Please see my post #47 in this thread, I listed some features unique to the Aviator that one could not get from the Mountaineer. Are they worth the extra money? IMHO, if it's around $3000, I'd say yes, over $5000? no.
Aviator is the next step up from Mountaineer, but I don't think Ford will stop making the 'neer. It will grab some of the Explorer Limited and 'neer buyers, but not much. They target different demographic.
One of the misconception about the Mercury brand is that Mercury is one step up from Ford. It is not. Lincoln is the next step, not Mercury. Mercury is a well optioned (loaded) Ford. Mercury has no stripped down vehicle, compared to Ford brandmates anyway. If you buy a lot of Ford vehicles, like the people here in SE MI do, you will know a Mercury is usually cheaper than a same optioned Ford, you get a (option) group discount of sort for buying a Mercury. Lincoln, on the other hand, is quite different. All Lincolns share platforms with Fords too, i.e. town car/CV/GM, Conti./Taurus/Sable, LS/T-Bird etc. but each has substantial differences. Lincoln SUVs, while more similar to Fords than their cars, also have different exterior/interior and more powerful engines to separate them from Ford offerings.
I understand that the sheetmetal and interior layout differs which is why I worded my question like I did. "On paper" they both have a V8 (yes, they are different), seating for 7, AWD and relatively the same size. Based on this they look pretty similar which is why I begged the question regarding cross sales. You bring up a good points about the maintenance agreement, HID, power tailgate and navigation system. I should have probably asked my question more specifically. You have however answered it quite well with your explanation, so thanks.
I think that the Aviator will be a big seller. I know of a good number of SUV buyers who want what the Navigator has but are afraid of it's size.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
I want the premium brands' exclusivity, but I am also very value conscious. I understand I have to pay good money for those luxury badges, I am ok with it if good value comes with it. Taking the MDX as an example, selling at MSRP is bad enough, some people are/were paying $3000 more for one! What is the value in that! I am waiting for the MDX's price to come down.
So for me, it doesn't have to be the best in class, it should be the best overall package. The Aviator, IF it has the Honda/Toyata quality, may well be the best in class. But, if it is priced too high, it won't be my #1 choice. It will be wait-and-see for me.
BTW, I have mixed feelings about the Aviator being based on an Explorer platform. There's nothing wrong with that, especially when the new '02 Explorer is a very very good design. OTOH, I am concerned that it is built on the same line that builds the Explorer, to me this means they will have similar build quality, which is not very good to say the least. If I do buy the Aviator, it will be at year end. I will give Ford half a year to sort things out, fix problems that shouldn't even be there at first place.
Going through the same thing you are RE choices. Haven't made up my mind to spend the $ for an Aviator, but it is a contender...for the name, if nothing else. (Yes, I'm a Navy flier, though approaching manditory retirement age). There IS an Isuzu mid-size...going to be the 03 "Ascender" which is a rebadged GMC Envoy XL which just came out this month. Haven't seen anything but the reviews which are great on the Envoy XL. The Isuzu web site has some info, but not pricing. Curious thing is that with Isuzu rebadge, you get a better warrentee.
Anyhow, still looking and awaiting the Aviator so I can make a decision.
One question does lincoln, provide lincoln courtesy car or ford car, when the car is at repaired?
One last comment Ford/Lincoln dealers in Van., all of em should consider heavy renovation, as all of them look pretty ugly.
And one last quesiton, is cadiliac considering building a new suv to face off against----the aviator?!!
Bob
http://pc99.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.hbs?myrec=27
WRT to a courtesy car, I don't have a definite answer for you. However, when my dad used to take his in for repairs he used to get whatever they had on hand. Keep in mind that it was a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership.
I assume that what you mean by renovation is the physical dealerships and not the cars that are in them. My feeling is that it will be quite awhile before you see anything change (probably 2-3 years). The reason is that they were just taken out of Ford's PAG and brought back into the direct Ford fold. This after they were put into the PAG a couple years ago and having their design studios moved to California. In other words, it seems that there has got to be some soul searching and paper work clearing to do before you start to see the effects trickle down to the dealers. (Just my opinion)
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Bob
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
A little more evidence of the turmoil internally at Ford regarding how to handle Lincoln/Mercury.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4843
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
36mo/36K of sched. maintance.
Roadside assistance.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The 3 year free service and free loaner is a very nice plus that I have enjoyed as a Lincoln LS owner. My dealer does a fine job of customer service and it would be nice to be able to take both of my vehicles to the same dealer who cares about service after the sale.
I am waiting for the Aviator intro even though Ford is offering a $1,500 rebate + $1,000 owner loyalty now. I am willing to take a chance that the Aviator will be worth the wait and a good value.
BTW, if I was going to pull any kind of trailer, I would not consider a MDX V-6. A V-8, especially 300 hp, will have sufficient torque and hp to provide reserves for passing and pulling hills where the V-6 is stressed out and out of torque. All my Explorers were V-6, but I am going with a V-8 this time, for above reasons.
I'll post the reason soon as I know why...
Rich
As a side note I have a 95 Explorer that I actually like, so I am not a Ford basher. But you have to admit that their launch quality has been pretty bad lately.
tidester
Host
SUVs
I had to think about it for a second though.
I think it's a little more than a quality hold, but I'm not concerned yet. Better to be safe than to screw up this major launch for Lincoln.
BTW: Rumor has it the price range will start in the low 40K's and fully loaded in the high 40K's.
I think Ford is a good example of all of the ill will that can be created by getting a product out there too early. I contend that you can test all you want, but until you build the volume of product that is involved in launching a product, there is always a chance that you may have missed something.
I would much rather see Ford delay something to make sure they get it right.
Off my soap box.
The interior, especially the center stack and console, are great. Power is great. Steering and handling are about the best I've experienced for a truck based SUV. The MDX was smoother and more comfortable and the X5 was a better pure handler but the Aviator had the best compromise of power, handling and smoothness. I prefer the walnut over the Zebrano wood. Window switches are on the console and seat adjustments are on the door. I liked the layout once I got used to it. Easier to get in and out of the 3rd row seat than the MDX. And a bit more room once you were there. The electro-luminescent gauges took some getting used to - they look cool but were hard to read at first due to the layout.
The BMW was too expensive and small with no 3rd row seat. Ride wasn't as comfortable. But man does it handle! Didn't have any more power than the Aviator but I drove a 4.6i yesterday and it has more power - and the price tag to go along with it.
The Acura was smoother and more comfortable but not nearly as sporty or distinctive.
I highly recommend taking a test drive once they arrive if you're at all interested. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
BMW had best handling, but rougher over broken pavement. Did not like interior. Power was good, but not as good as X5 4.6i driven previous day. Less interior space and no 3rd seat. Very sporty but most expensive and smallest of the three.
Aviator had black exterior with grey wood trim and cream interior. Center dash was brushed nickel and very nice Shifter and console has very luxureous feel. Nice panel covering the DVD Navigation system. Instruments were very high tech and easy to see.
Power was great. Rode more like a truck compared to other two, but still better than most SUVs. Precise steering and wood steering wheel.
Wasn't crazy about the wheels, dash, except center stack and would prefer a tighter suspension. MSRP was $43K. I would pick Aviator over other two. BMW is too small and expensive and don't like styling. Acura MDX is too conservative and costs almost as much as the Aviator.
akirby-THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
Wait - that was my post.
That's ok - both posts had slightly different info. I should have done one and cut and pasted it anyway.
Anyway, thanks for the post.
The nav is DVD but I don't think it will be available right away.
wrong with the split seating? Anyone has ideas
if Lincoln will offer the option of a 3rd row
split seating.
Incidentally, the front buckets are both heated AND cooled, like those available on the Navigator, and they're standard in the Av. Neat feature, IMO.
If Lincoln has to delay introduction to get things right, then I applaud them. I believe the Aviator could win the TOYA against the other mid-size luxury SUV's with it's most powerful engine in it's class, but it must have a trouble-free launch. The VW Tourage and Porsche Cayenne will raise the bar in this segment and build quality is extremely important in the MBZ, BMW, VW and Porsche Black Forest.
Good luck to the Lincoln engineers who are working hard to deliver a great, new marque in the SUV field.
BTW, when will the 4.6 be available in the Lincon LS (hint, hint)?
I agree that Ford is doing the right thing delaying the launch if there are technical problems. But they need to start finding and fixing them before they announce the date. People still associate a production delay or early recall with poor quality (I don't but some do). I call it good quality control and testing.
I am very pleased to hear the positive comments on the Aviator....When I drove it I was very much impressed and had the thought that this is going to be a big winner for Lincoln...But I am biased.
If Lincoln gives us a good lease program from the get-go we have a winner.
Rich
It's a baby navigator with all the bells and whistles but it's quicker and more nimble and a lot less $$$.
is the build start date of july and the dealer arrival of august still the projection?
There seems to be conflicting posts
Also, does anyone think the gps navigation will be available from the beginning of the launch?
any word on the vivid red color?
thanks
mike
Rich
What did you think about the satin nickel center stack and console?