Lincoln Aviator

audia8q · July 2002

We were told today to expect an additional delay on the Aviator....they were hinting september at the earliest

jond · July 2002

I thought they were very attractive and quite well done. I particularly liked the cover that pulls down to cover the radio and A/C controls.

akirby · July 2002

if we'll see the same satin-nickel dash treatment on any other new for 2003 Lincoln vehicles debuting later this year? Seems to be a Lincoln theme with the Aviator and Navigator. And a good one at that.

hairong · July 2002

For those who are interested, Ford of Canada has the MSRP for the '03 Aviator, $59,995 CDN (including dest. charge). Go to,

http://www.ford.ca/english/showroom/default.asp?sVehCategory=lincoln&sModel=aviator03&page=

then click on Build & Price on the right side. This price is for AWD Premium. Based on exchange rate only, it will be much cheaper than the US price of the same vehicle.

sirknightd · July 2002

great webpage hairong

I think that 60K canadian translates to 40k american

i noticed no dvd navigation offered yet.

hairong · July 2002


#157 of 157  great webpage by sirknightd   Jul 10, 2002 (12:28 am) 
great webpage hairong
I think that 60K canadian translates to 40k american
i noticed no dvd navigation offered yet.

Thanks. I will take credit for finding that page, but not for the webpage itself :-> As to the price tag, vehicles are always cheaper in Canada than in the US :-( Is there anyone with experience that can tell us how much a 60k CDN vehicle will sell in the states?

Now to the update. New production date is early September, with dealer avail. date of 10/7. This may still change, however.

boothe2 · July 2002

Will a sun roof be available? I have a 98 navigator, if only it had a sun roof!

jerry2281 · July 2002

Power moonroof with medium overhead console replacing the full-size console is available on all 2003 Aviator models and is option 439.

aviatorman · July 2002

Does anyone know if the 2nd row bench seat cost extra? Since it is an option.

akirby · July 2002

I checked the 2003 Navigator and it's a no-cost option. I would assume the Aviator would be the same.

aviatorman · July 2002

Does anybody have any word on when the aviator will be avalible?

audia8q · July 2002

initial shipments will happen in late September....Official launch is December.

dfdesigns · July 2002

It's too bad that there is such a delay with the Aviator. I was initially told that vehicles would be on the lot by the end of June. I guess that's really taken a slide!

It would have been great for Lincoln to get the Aviator out before the new Lexus, Acura and Volvo mid-sizers arrive this fall. But I understand that they want everything to be as error free as possible - that doesn't make the waiting any easier, though!

audia8q · July 2002

I really think this vehicle has the ability to be a winner for lincoln. The ride and drive is very impressive. Like everyone here, it can't get here soon enough!!! but on the otherside, it is imperative they get the launch 100% right. any bugs or problems could sink this vehicle. As dealers, we are demanding a perfect vehicle from the get-go....

whotheman · July 2002

to learn from Toyota/Lexus, and make/market the Luxury version of a platform first, THEN sell the pedestrian version to the masses. It might increase the level of perceived value/prestige in the vehicles being promoted. Everyone knows the Aviator is a knocked-off Exploder! But an RX300 knocked-off (Highlander) holds moch more value to the consumer!

audia8q · August 2002

You would be very surprised how few people know what platform is on what vehicle or even care!!

Rich

johnnylinc · August 2002

Wonder how many RX300 owners know that their vehicle shares its basic platform with the Camry in addition to the ES300 and the Highlander? The "pedestrian" Camry certainly came first.

Does anyone know when Aviator prices will be released? What about brochures?

marsha7 · August 2002

I really can't agree with your last post, at least from a profit and market share standpoint...Ford was correct, IMO, to start out with the Explorer, and see if the concept worked, this newfangled SUV concept...seems that people liked it, so they added it to the Mercury lineup, theoretically a slightly upscale market...now that the Mercury/Ford line has sold millions and made $$$ billions, it seems right to see if the line can be extended into the "yet even higher profit margin lineup" of Lincoln, especially for those who want Lincoln but do not want the land yacht Navigator...in terms of profit and market share, starting with Lincoln would have been another Edsel, due to the price and most buyers would not be buyers...maybe it worked for Toyota and Lexus, no argument there, but considering the success of the Explorer, I think Ford struck a bullseye, with no room for significant improvement from us "unwanted commentators"...

hairong · August 2002

Both down-market and up-market approaches can be successful, as shown in many cases. The first and foremost reason for success is that you have a good platform that can go either way.

However, for Ford, it is almost always the bottom up approach. The reason, Ford is a mass manufacturer, they have a capacity to fill. Think about it, when the capacity is there, do you want to sell 50,000 at $10,000 profit or sell 400,000 at $5,000 profit? Ford would be crazy to go the down market way just to hold the value (and profit) of a vehicle while their plants are idle. Despite the success/hype RX300/Highlander and MDX/Pilot get, Explorer out sell them 2 to 1 combined.

A down market success for Ford would be a Lincoln LS based Mustang (in the plan) and a Ford sedan (not likely). I know, Ford won't build another RWD sedan besides CV/GM. But what if the upcoming Chrysler RWD car is kicking CV/GM/500 left and right? They may just have to do it.

greg0ry · August 2002

Does anyone know if a/x/z-plan pricing will be available on the Aviator when it launches?

jerry2281 · August 2002

Dropped by my dealer yesterday and they had received '03 Aviator brochures on Monday this week. What a classy looking SUV!

Very disappointed that Advance-trac will be a late availability option. I don't understand since Explorers and Aviators are built in same plant and Explorer has been shipping Advance-trac equipped Explorers on the 2002.5 models since March. I have advance-trac on my 2001 Lincoln LS and would not buy another vechile without it.

Manager said that Iowa District Rep. stopped by on Monday and is driving a pre-production Aviator. He was very impressed with smooth ride and performance. Indicated that it looks better in person.

Factory is saying September 3rd is launch date. I am not sure if that is Job 1 or just advertising Day 1. Dealer seems to think January is current delivery date of first units.

akirby · August 2002

I don't have advancetrac on my LS and I can't figure out what I'm missing. Under what circumstances does yours activate and what do you think it helps with? I don't think anyone will be doing 4-wheel drifts in the Aviator!

audia8q · August 2002

jerry...

They tell us to expect our first aviator in october. They have not given us the "official" launch date yet.

Also...still no prices.

After some heated meetings with the dealerbody I think Ford decided to reconsider the pricing. Because the dealerbody and Lincoln had totally different ideas in this area.

I'll let everyone know as soon as I get prices

hairong · August 2002

One simple example for AdvanceTrac and most all stability control systems is understeer turning. Let's say on a raining day you are turning too fast at an intersection (no brake or not enough brake), because of the wet surface, your car would most likely be understeer and cannot make the turn like you usually do. AdvanceTrac will sense this and apply enough brake (through ABS) to the inner rear wheel, to help you make the turn and not sliding to the middle of the road.

For drivers who know how to drive their car in all conditions and who also drive aggressively, they will find stability control system annoying and distracting at times, because the computer will think a lot of the moves unsafe and automatically kicks in to prevent the maneuver. However, in emergency situations, it is a real life saver.

hairong · August 2002

Audia8q, are you saying Ford is thinking Aviator is a baby Navigator and dealers are thinking it is a Explorer cousin?

Thanks for the update, as always.

audia8q · August 2002

I think that us, as dealers, have a very good idea where this vehicle needs to be priced and the dealerbody has pushed hard. This could be a great vehicle for Lincoln but the price point is key....too low and it will hurt Mountaneer and Explorer limited sales...to high and they won't sell. Tough call.

BTW: alot of dealers wanted they to call it the baby navi. haha

mhenderson1 · August 2002

a copy of the Aviator brochure at a dealership in Silver Spring MD. One thing odd abou the aviator is that it only comes in two interior colors, which both look the same. Why wasn't a black or dark grey offered.

akirby · August 2002

That was puzzling to me, too. I think it would look better with a darker interior. In fact, I asked to see another Aviator off to the side of the test drive area to see if it had a darker interior but I wasn't allowed to go over there.

What does the Navigator offer?

whotheman · August 2002

Too late.

How much will it cost? Which SUV's are it's primary competitors?

whotheman

jerry2281 · August 2002

Lincoln announced prices and further details on 2003 Lincoln Aviator today.

Prices including delivery charges:

2 WD, Luxury Trim-$39,995

AWD, Luxu4ry Trim-$42,915

2WD, Premium Trim-$42,945

AWD, Premium Trim-45,865

I am very pleased with the aggressive price points.

I have been looking at Explorer Eddie Bauer/Limited and they easily list for $39,500+.

When you consider the 302 hp DOHC V-8 and other standard features, Lincoln is surely a competitive alternative to MBZ, BMW and Porsche.

The only disappointment is late availability of AdvanceTrac for me personally as well as Tire Pressure Monitor, DVD Navigation System and telematics.

This appears to be a Lincoln deserving of the name and I am very pleased with the execution.

For full information, see Lincoln's web site:

media.lincolnvehicles.com

Production is expected to begin in mid-September and available at dealers in October according to the press release.

e350v10 · August 2002

Here is a link to the news release:

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusCom/pr-newswire08-26-053331.asp?sym=F

navigator3740 · August 2002

The Navigator offers just 2 interior colors as well, Black Ink & Light Parchment. Where I live, a black interior is death, so most of the ones we see here will be in the other. I've noticed lately, that Ford has been limiting the number of interior color options, which is not a big deal to me anyway, as long as there is a light option. Too hot here for dark ones.

akirby · August 2002

I could understand limiting choices but we were shown the second interior at the end of the 3 hour test drive to see which one we liked best. To be perfectly honest I couldn't see any difference and had to ask what was different. The wood trim is different also. You would think they would offer at least a charcoal color but apparently not.

audia8q · August 2002

I am happy with the Aviator pricing...the only bad part is ALG has tied the lease residual to the Mountaneer. Which means the vehicle won't lease well at all....this part is bad. very bad.

jack7742 · August 2002

To: Audia8q
I have ordered an Aviator, Premium AWD. Please expand on your comments concerning lease residual as I haven't even discussed price or financing with dealership yet. Any insight, help would be appreciated.

Currently have 2000LS on which I've extended lease until arrival of Aviator.

Thanks,

JACK

zman3 · August 2002

I assume the residuals are going to be crap, but I am also interested in hearing the numbers if they are available.

audia8q · August 2002

We don't have hard lease numbers yet...But Lincoln has prepped us to push retail....the lease numbers will be terrible initially.

mwmcdonald1 · August 2002

I think the residuals on an AWD Mountaineer for a 36 month lease is somewhere around 42%. If the Aviator is similar then the net cost to the lease the vehicle will be closer to that of the competition than one might initially think.

hairong · August 2002

42% residual on a 36 month lease is terrible. In Mountaineer's case, it ate away whatever incentive (and some) Ford is offering on the truck, and made lease very unattractive for it. If the Aviator's residual is the same, since you won't see incentives at the first several months, monthly payment will be much higher than competition. E.g. MDX's residual after 36 month lease is around 60%, roughly you can save ($40000*18%/36=) $200 a month just on depreciation alone. Counting interest and tax, you are looking at a difference close to $250 a month!

My suggestion, BUY, Don't lease.

zman3 · August 2002

I get your point but...

I've never seen residuals set artificially low by a manufacturer, so if you buy, you are buying something that is going to drop like a rock in value. May not make a good buy, either.

hairong · August 2002

Aviator's price came out at the high end of my guestimate, which priced the model I wanted (awd luxury) right out of my reach ($3000 more than I can afford).

Looks like Lincoln thinks the Aviator's direct competition is MB ML320&ML500, not Acura MDX. If it were up to me, I would have priced Awd-Luxury Aviator right at MDX Touring level. I think Ford worried too much about Exp Limited and Mountaineer's sale, but not enough about the compition.

marks52 · August 2002

Until the Aviator proves itself, it needs to lease for significantly less than the ML500, X5 4.4i and GX470. Otherwise, it won't draw new buyers to Lincoln, including me. I've been very interested to get an Aviator ASAP, but, not if it's not a value against these competitors.

akirby · August 2002

The Focus group test drive I participated in compared the Aviator with the Acura MDX AWD and the BMW X5 4.4i.

It has more power, more room and more off-road capability (like that makes a difference) plus more gadgets than the MDX. The MDX does have a smoother ride.

The BMW is much smaller with no 3rd row seats. It's not any quicker, either. It does handle better.

I think it's priced right and if I was looking for a SUV in that price range I would go for the Aviator.

akirby · August 2002

Go drive one - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't think the ML500 or X5 4.4i has anything over the Aviator other than the 'snob' factor.

marks52 · August 2002

I'd like to see and drive one.
Does anyone know if/when dealers will get a first early unit to show/test drive? Or, should I expect to have to wait until October? I live in Ohio and my local dealer says he hasn't seen one yet.

hairong · August 2002

Akirby, I agree with your assessment, but I've come to a different conclusion. In this segment, anyway you price your vehicle, you are gonna make a big profit. The important thing is to find where your compititions are and position your entry competitively and sell as much as you can. You can have a bigger market share and make up the less unit profit by selling more units. I had thought this was Ford's phylosophy all along.

In this segment, midsize luxury SUV/crossover, the market leader is Acura MDX, not anything else. When compared to the MDX, the Aviator
has more power, more room and more off-road capability (like that makes a difference) plus more gadgets than the MDX. The MDX does have a smoother ride. I totally agree (and more towing capacity I might add). But these advantages do come at a price: Aviator is heavier, less nimble, has worse MPG. But overall I do think Aviator is better than MDX, just not by much. An Aviator AWD Luxury does NOT have more gadgets than a MDX Touring, both are without DVD Navi/AdvanceTrac/HID light etc., yet it is listed 4~5k more, $43k vs. $38k('02)~$39k('03, my guess).

When you figure in people's perception on Lincoln vehicles re. quality/reliability/resale value, it is hard to justify Aviator's premium price. I agree with marks52, Aviator has to earn its right to bear a primium tag, like the Navigator did. Otherwise, we all know what will happen: an inflated MSRP at intro, followed by a hafty rebate within 6 months, which leads to worse perception (why huge discount on an all new vehicle?) and dissmal resale value.

What I had hoped for was, price the AWD Luxury Aviator at the level of '03 MDX Touring w/o Navi., and let everything else fall into place. Oh well, maybe Ford thinks rebates/incentives are inevitable, and they are pricing the Aviator with this in mind. To this, I say, hold your purchase until the rebates come in. Is this what Ford would like to see? I doubt it.

thecarman1 · August 2002

I just wanted to ask how Hairong knows that the ride is Better on the MDX and just to tell you, they witll have DVD Navi/AdvanceTrac/HID light etc. some time this year. I have 2 RX300's and this car looks as a good alternitave to the comp. Has anyone seen this car in the dealer's. If so does it have the power fold seats and the side steps that retract.

hairong · August 2002

Why do i know MDX has a better ride? I took akirby's words for it. and generally speaking, car based suvs do have a better ride than truck based ones.

And you don't have to tell me Aviator will have those nice gadgets, I already know that and they are called options. DVD navi./AdvanceTrac will add another good 2~3k to the list price, and HIDs are part of the $3000 package for the Primium model. More gadgets cost more money, facts of life.

BTW, it does not have power folding seats and power-retractable running boards like the Navigator.

akirby · August 2002

Nope, no power third row seat or running boards. But it does have heated and cooled seats.

I drove the Aviator and MDX back to back and the difference is quite noticeable. The Aviator is probably the best riding truck chassis I've been in, but it's still a truck. The MDX is minivan based and rides smoother and more carlike.

With the Aviator you get more power, more towing capacity, more interior room (I could barely get in and out of the MDX back seat and the BMW didn't even have a 3rd row).

I would definitely pay $3-4K more for the Aviator but it really comes down to personal choice and what's important to you. I think it will sell well. Look at the Navigator. No reason to think Aviator will be any different.

lolaj42 · August 2002

The new Volvo XC90 is yet another new enterant into the upscale SUV class with AWD. It also has 3 rows of seating to accommodate 7, has some decidedly luxurious ammenities and a DVD based NAV system. Pricing was also just announced to start at $35K, but can quickly mount to over $45K with all options. The base motor is 2.5 liters, 5-cylinder producing 208-hp, and an upgraded 2.9 liter V6 with twin turbos that makes 268-hp. Seems to be situated in price and power between the Explorer/Mountaineer and the Aviator.

I'm looking forward to looking at the Aviator, but the XC90 is probably also worth looking at.

Lincoln Aviator

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