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Comments

  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    "To get that reliability and size for under $30k is money well spent for me."

    XTerra - What part of "size" did you not understand?

    Trooper - No 3rd row for a vehicle that size. Dated design, dated engine, dated SUV. Read: Isuzu Ascender.

    Liberty - What part of "size" did you not understand?

    Wrangler - What part of "size" did you not understand?
  • kmhkmh Posts: 143
    From what I've seen and read - it looks promising. Of course, I just plopped down a load of money and payments for a Lexus RX300. :-)
  • jjmanjjman Posts: 77
    I hate the name pilot rather have passport continue as the name. overall though it looks ok but kinda conservative.. I hope they can give it a sleeker look
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    The interior pictures scream "cheap." I mean, they're supposed to keep it low to prevent it from eating sales of the MDX, but I didn't think it would be so cheap looking.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I thought the interior looked nice and refined (actually, very European).

    PILOT may just be a prototype name. I doubt Honda will call it Passport though (they may want to forget it).
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    I wanted to wait for the new Pilot, however I loved the RX for everything it is and not what it isn't. If I would have waited I know I would have had to pay sticker. The MDX is what this car will be but without and the extra's Nissan is due out with 4 new suv's in the next couple of years so things will keep getting better for consumers.
  • jjmanjjman Posts: 77
    maybe but I think anythings better than pilot, the interior looks nice though. And I do believe thats a rear heating vent on the center console. The highlander doesn't have that. Just spectulating but I think from the honda news release that the engine is supposed to have a lotta torque if it is going to be "the class leader in towing". That'll be something new for a Honda.
  • bblachabblacha Posts: 160
    The long wheelbase and wide track give this car an awesome powerful look. More practically, this might end up being the best-handling SUV out there, with such a broad footprint and car-based platform.

    I'm glad the interior is cheap, if it translates into price significantly below the MDX. The Highlander didn't end up much cheaper than its luxury equivalent - a loaded HL gets very close to the RX in terms of street prices. I hope Honda differentiates the luxury and non-luxury prices more than that.

    Then again, Highlander was truly one of a kind. With increased competition in this segment, some prices might go down.

    In fact, once the PILOT comes out, the Highlander might be a much better value - with lower street prices, higher quality (Hondas aren't stellar in their first year, the HL was) and similar capabilities.

    Oh, this is exciting. I'll hold on to my Forester until this new segment comes alive.

    --Bart
  • jblaze13jblaze13 Posts: 152
    This segment is definitely heating up. Between this, the Highlander, and the Nissan X-trail. It ought to be good. If Nissan brings the X-trail or some soon to be mentioned car based SUV to the U.S. Honda seems to have the third row seating advantage.
  • I would like to see a rear window like the 4Runner. That kind of window adds so much to the ventilation and utility of an SUV. On top of that my dogs like to stick their heads out the rear window.
  • Someone was complaining of the cheap interior...have you sat in one, I don't think so.
  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    I was thinking the same thing. =) There's supposed to be one at the Detroit Auto Show, but I have to wonder if it'll be another concept. Like the 7/8ths model they showed for the MD-X.


    HondaSUV.com (AKA CR-V IX) has opened a new forum for the Pilot. The CR-V IX has long been the most popular and useful on-line resource for the CR-V. Check it out. The more users they attract the better the information that gets published there.

  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    Are the Pilot's cockpit doors reinforced?
  • The interior sketches are really similar to the Ody, but with a center console from a MDX. Exterior dimensions look on par to the Ody, expecially the back and wheel overhangs. Obviously these are just sketches, but it looks alot bigger than an MDX, and borrowing the dash from the Ody is a price saving concept. IMO, A AWD Ody on stilts, lower roofline, and a front end crossed between CRV and MDX. Fills the void left of large AWD minivan with a SUV image. It would fit the pricing of a base starting close to an EX Ody (26k) and going close to a base MDX (34k). Not far from Detroit, so looks like a road trip(waiting for a car to die to jump on the fun waiting list for an MDX--maybe pilot by then). Honda heard us, love the Ody and 3rd magic seat (sorry Highlander), Mdx is nice but pricy, SUV image over Minivan--the void has been filled.
  • About a year ago I traded in my 1998 Mercedes-Benz ML320 for a brand new Acura MDX. It was the WORST mistake I ever made. [well - at least as far a buying a vehicle is concerned] The MDX was very nice - except for one thing. It was HORRIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE. I sold it [privately] 2 months after I bought it. The problem?? The SEAT. All Acura's and Honda's that have side-impact airbags [I've discovered] are [I find] VERY uncomfortable. The airbags are built into the side of the seat. This does two things. First - the 'wing' or 'side-bolster' [or whatever it's called] that houses the airbag is MUCH harder then the side without the airbag. That harder side forces a person [who has a wider-than-usual body] to twist towards the softer side - putting his body out of alignment. The seat is ALSO narrower. [is that a word??] This is necessary because there has to be space between the seat AND the door for the airbag to inflate. What a guy [like me] who is big and WIDE [6'3" and about 250 lbs] ends up feeling is that he is sitting in a seat made for a child. [an awkwardly shaped child - at that] My mom owns an Acura TL Type S and the seat is exactly the same. [in other words - just as UNcomfortable]

    I have owned LOTS of Honda's and Acura's in my life. I still own my 1991 NSX. I never had this problem before Honda started installing side-impact airbags. In fact - I think my NSX is one of the MOST comfortable cars I've ever owned.

    Honda and Acura [like most other car companies] have ALSO shortened the seat bottoms. [the part you actually SIT on] I don't know WHY this is happening. I think it's a mistake. Chrysler is particularily 'bad' when it comes to this. Maybe 'they' want people to THINK there is more leg room than there really is - I don't know. Perhaps the price of foam-rubber has gone through the roof. Your guess is as good as mine.

    IF you're a smaller person AND/OR a 'narrow' bodied person - you probably won't know what I'm talking about. If you're comfortable sitting in your side-impact airbag equipt Honda or Acura - well - good for you. BUT I can't help but wonder IF Honda has EVER walked through a typical Walmart in a typcial U.S or Canadian city. Perhaps they should. Then maybe - JUST MAYBE - they'll come to realize that MOST people are NOT 'skinny little things'.

    I hope the new 'Pilot' brings Honda/Acura BACK to the good old days when they DID make a VERY comfortable 'car'. [even for 'us' big guys]

    Craig!! :o)
  • Plenty of manufacturers can make comfortable seats with side-impact airbags installed in them. Personally, I think door-installed side airbags are stupid. (a) they explode right into your arm (OUCH!), and (b) your seat has to be in the right position for them to be effective.

    We own three cars with seat-mounted side impact airbags. An Audi A6, and Audi A4, and a Toyota Highlander. I've also sat in a new Passat and Volkswagen GTI which had seat-mounted airbags. All have EXTREMELY comfortable seats with long seat cushions.

    It's all about design. My friend has a Honda Civic with the side-airbags, and the seats aren't too bad.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I've a feeling that Honda is going to deliver a 3-trim level lineup priced from about $25K to $32K (equipped with leather, RES, NAV etc.) and that fills the void between CRV and MDX, pretty nicely.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Think it will show up with this feature? So far everything I've read indicates it won't have a Low Range. I hope I'm wrong.

    This vehicle has to compete, not only for Highlander customers, but also 4-Runner, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, Durango, etc.—plus Passport customers. Many of these folks want and/or need a Low Range.

    Bob
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Check out the popularity of Highlander versus 4Runner. Pilot will probably use the VTM-4 system from MDX, which is more than enough for almost every driving situation, except boulder bashing. And the newsitem does say that it has a locking center differential (like MDX).
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    About a year ago, I drove my '93 Accord EX to a Honda dealer to test drive drive a 2001 Accord EX, thinking I might trade up.

    Well, the first thing I noticed was how uncomfortable the seats in the 2001 were compared to my '93. The seat bottoms were noticeably shorter, which seriously cut back on the thigh support that my '93 offers (and I'm only 5'8").

    The salesman I was with admitted that he also owns a '93 Accord and he noticed the same thing when he bought a 2001 for his wife earlier that year.

    I wonder why?
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4468


    "Though it shares platforms with the upscale Acura MDX, the new Honda ute will be smaller on the outside yet roomier on the inside, with lots more of what Paluch called 'stuffable storage.'"


    Wasn't this thing supposed to be 8 inches longer?

  • it is supposed to be 9" longer..at least that what Honda tells me.

    Jerry
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Toyota is in a different position than Honda. They offer both the Highlander and the 4-Runner, so they've got *all* the mid-size 4WD markets covered under the Toyota umbrella. Honda doesn't (or won't) if they offer a High-Range-only model.

    They will lose a substantial amount of potential customers, those who need or want a 4-Low Range. Unlike the *Cute-Ute* market, there are a lot of people in the mid-size SUV range who do need/want 4-Low. Unlike what most people think, it's not just needed for off roading. people who pull heavy boats out of the water and up steep boat ramps appreciate having 4-Low too. And—early reports suggest the Pilot will have a 4500 pound boat towing capability. That's a lot of weight to pull up a steep boat ramp with just a 3.5L engine and no Low Range. The *locking 4WD mode* is not the answer here. A low set of gears are.

    Also, in the Highlander vs. 4-Runner issue, keep in mind that the 4-Runner is an old design, in serious need of an update. My understanding is that there will be an all-new 4-Runner in the fall. Only then can any accurate comparisons be made as to the in-house Toyota *on-road-ute* vs. *off-road-ute* issue. I see a huge amount of all-new Explorers and TrailBlazers out there. So there clearly is a big market for traditional Low-Range-equipped mid-size SUVs.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I know the MDX is 100% FWD until it senses a need to engage the rear wheels. I also know that RWD (or full-time 4WD/AWD) is preferred to FWD when it comes to towing.

    Case in point is the comparison between the RWD-biased Liberty/Cherokee/Grand Cherokee/Montero and the FWD-biased MDX. All these vehicles use a beefed up unit-body construction, and are considered mid-sized SUVs. Yet the RWD-based 6-cylinder Jeeps and Montero, with a tow package can tow 5000 pounds. The FWD-biased MDX , with a tow package can tow only 4500 pounds—and that is if it's a boat trailer. Other trailers are restricted to 3500 pounds.

    BTW, I'm convinced this is due to the FWD vs. RWD, not IFS/IRS vs. solid axles. The IFS/IRS equipped new Explorer, with a tow package can tow over 6000 pounds. The IFS/IRS Montero can tow 5000 pounds. In fact, the IFS/IRS Explorer can tow more than the IFS/solid axle TrailBlazer.

    I wonder how the the Pilot addresses this issue? My guess is that more Pilot owners, than MDX owners, will be towing.

    Bob
  • I didn't like the rear end treatment on the Pilot.
    But once it's introduce I hope it will be a wake up call to all those over sticker Acura dealers and list price inforcers. I will delay my purchase of the MDX base till then, maybe I order a 2003 MDX?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I suspect that Honda dealers will "over-sticker" the Pilot just as they have done with the Odyssey and Acura has done with the MDX.

    Of course, if the Pilot stickers at around $25,000 (fat chance), they will sell every one they build for $28,000 without batting an eye....and the Pilot will probably be worth it.

    If a well-equipped, mid-level Pilot (LX?) stickers for around $29,900 (my guess), It will be a tough choice between a Pilot for $32,000 or an MDX for $35,000.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    You have inside info/contacts? Share...
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    I did a search on google for "Honda Pilot" and apparently the name "Pilot" is already used by Honda as a dune buggy.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    I discovered that as well. Odyssey was also the name of a Honda ATV. Perhaps all the good car names are taken??
  • Thanks for replying to my message. It's nice to know that it's NOT just ME!! I've ALWAYS been comfortable in Honda's. I've never had a problem - before. It's really quite depressing - to be honest. I WANT Acura's and Honda's to be on my 'most wanted' list. But they're not. Being comfortable is a BIG part of liking a car. It doesn't help a person's self-esteem - either - to feel like a GIANT. [and that's how I feel when I'm driving ANY new Acura OR Honda]

    I found it particularly interesting that the FIRST THING you noticed [about the 2001 Accord] was the seat. Can you imagine how uncomfortable you'd be on a long trip?? I think it would be interesting to actually MEASURE the seat in your 1993 Accord and compare those measurements to a seat in a NEW Accord. [or any OTHER new Acura or Honda]

    I have also 'wondered why' this is happening. Perhaps seats are smaller [now] because woman are a bigger influence in the marketplace. It's not just Honda seats that are uncomfortable. As I mentioned in my first message - Chrysler has ALSO 'shrunk' their seats. Ever look inside of one of those PT Cruiser's?? The front seats look like doll-house chairs. LOL

    If you have time - would you LIKE to measure the seat in your Accord??

    Take care
    Craig!! :o)
  • What is the measurements o the Pilot?

    Length

    Width

    Height

    weight
  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    Back when Honda and Rover were buddies, Honda was selling a rebadged Disco and calling it the "Crossroad". If they were going to revive an old name, I'd rather they had used that.


    Here's the orginal Pilot, for anyone that's curious.

    http://www.honda-pilot.freeserve.co.uk/images/main/pilot.gif

  • wd5938wd5938 Posts: 19
    Before Pilot, the older version (it had yellow plastic) was called Odyssey. I like the name "Pilot" better than "Passport." Based on the drawings, I think the Pilot will be a nice looking vehicle. I bought a Highlander back in March and it's a great vehicle. I'm curious about the price of the Pilot. Whatever it is, I'm sure there will be a dealer "mark-up."
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    The rear view drawing makes it look kinda like a Mitsubishi Montero, without the spare. Funny, since the report says that it will have the widest track in its class. But these are just renderings after all...

    I wonder if the 3rd row (capable of holding 3!) is the MDX/Odyssey kind: folds flat into the floor?
  • jjmanjjman Posts: 77
    even with a markup, the Pilot should be cheaper than a Highlander. I know, when I went shopping for one with a friend, the limiteds were going for at least 32k.
    I think the Pilot will have the same kind of 3rd row as the MDX, just wider
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I'm wondering if Honda will offer a 3-seat front bench as an option (if the third seat remains a 2-seater) to get that 8-passenger capacity?

    Bob
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Gag me with a spoon...I have never had a need or desire to look inside of a PT Cruiser.

    Well, out of curiosity, I measured my '93 Accord's driver seat cushion. From where it touches the bottom of the seatback to the front edge of the seat, it measures approximately 21".

    BTW, my Buick's driver seat measures 20.5" and is also very comfortable.
  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    Bob - According to the interior picks, it seats three across in the third row. Whether or not they mean three human-sized occupants remains to be seen. Since they are boasting class leading cargo capacity, I would have to assume that the seat folds pretty flat. Of course, I also expect that "class-leading" will mean exactly one cubic foot more space than the competition.

    I dunno if the pilot will be cheaper than the Highlander, but it'll probably offer more content and utility for the same lofty price.
  • mark189mark189 Posts: 107
    If the third row folds into the floor, as the Odyssey does, then when it's in use, there will be a large trunk like area. If the Pilot is the same length as the Odyssey (reported to be 12" longer than the MDX)the cargo space will be great.

    I currently drive an MDX and cargo space is my only complaint. Well, the driver seat is uncomfortable, but I'm getting used to it.
  • thornthorn Posts: 91
    Honda to Provide Hits in 2002

    http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1008536943125274680.htm


    ....Honda, which likes to think of itself as the Little Car Company that Could, is about to give Detroit fits again. Last week, Honda executives used their annual holiday party for the Detroit automotive press to unveil the long-awaited Honda version of the highly successful Acura MDX sport utility....

    ....The Pilot could quickly become a symbol for the fragility of the SUV franchise that has sustained Ford, GM and Chrysler for nearly a decade. If Honda's plans don't go awry, the Pilot will demonstrate that it is possible to build a seven-passenger sport utility (OK, Honda insists it's an eight-passenger sport utility) with ample room, enough towing power to haul a 21-foot boat, and still average more than 20 miles per gallon. The Pilot's V-6 won't sway Americans who want to tow really big stuff. But for the adventure-shopping crowd, the Pilot will be a draw. With the growth rate in sales of midsized sport utilities already flattening out, the advent of the Pilot might just be enough to tip the whole sector into a price war....

  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    Interesting point. The Highlander has already taken a serious chunk of the Big 3's market, by offering an affordable soccer mom SUV. If the pilot meets those needs AND those of the people looking for more utility than the HL, the Big 3 could be in trouble. They may have to seriously lower their truck prices in order to compete.
  • toledo19toledo19 Posts: 119
    This will probably go the way of the Odyssey, minimal availability and selling for MSRP plus.
  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    Honda just opened a new plant to handle Ody production. This leaves the Ontario plant open for SUV manufacturing.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    there will be a HUGE demand. Even with two factories on line, I expect to see long waits and ADMs being the rule for some time to come.

    Adding more gas to the fire is the fact that Lexus will be offering a GX 470 for '03. I think(?) this may be based on the all-new 4-Runner, which is due in the fall, but with the Lexus V8.

    In Japan and other markets, they offer a Land Cruiser Prado, which uses some 4-Runner gear, but is packaged in a vehicle that looks more like the Trooper. My understanding is that this is also due to be redesigned, which could also be the basis for this new Lexus.

    In any case, I think it will fall in between the RX 300 and the LX 470.

    Bob

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_031714
  • Good lord, benches in the front are a horrible idea. Not only does it make it look like a 1980's car, but think about it from a practical standpoint. A third person would have no shoulder belt or head restraint. In other words, their head would smash into the center console in between the two airbags if you got into a crash. Even if they managed to fit a shoulder belt, they wouldn't have an airbag protecting them, which is essential in the front seat....
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    I also question Honda's claim that the Pilot will be an 8-seater in a mid-size SUV. If they meant 5 adults and 3 kids, they're right on target.

    In fact, the only mid-size SUV that is capable of holding 8 is the Dodge Durango - which uses a 3 seat bench up front.
  • I think that most people who would buy a Pilot for the seating capacity would have a least a couple of kids in the mix. When Honda says "8-passenger seating", what they probably have in mind is: you, your kid, and six of your kid's soccer/little league/pee-wee hockey teammates.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Posts: 1,078
    with 8-passenger capacity, I can't see the thing smaller than the MDX in exterior dimensions. Especially if it is any WIDER, then it would be too big, IMO.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    want to see a front bench seat either, even as a option.

    Bob
  • varmitvarmit Posts: 1,125
    I hate to put stock in drawings, but those pics that we're seeing published all over the place are very similar to the ones that were done for the '02 CR-V. Here's one.

    http://a1008.g.akamai.net/7/1008/5509/1008026204/autoweb.com.au/autonews/images/hnd0112111fhi.jpg

    Though they are outrageously overstylized, they do they accurately show the basic design of the vehicle. Similar pics of the CR-V showed the interior whih turned out to be a dead ringer for the actually dash layout. So I think what you see is what you get.
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