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2002 Ford Super Duty F-250
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Comments
a diesel may not be the best choice. Weight and throttle response are the issues.
It seems to me the biggest weakness of the PSD for off-roading is simply the massive weight of the engine which causes the front end to want to sink more in the mud..
Also, once we hit the winter months, I started to get a very noticeable squeak when I turned the steering wheel each morning. Took it in and they said some part of the steering mechanism had not been lubricated properly - and so they did just that. It was fine - no squeak at all - for the first couple of weeks, but now the squeak is back a little each morning just after I start the truck. Anyone else experiencing any squeak at all. Just wondering if I should take the truck back in.
Thanks for any help with either question!
You know you'll loose power and ABS begins to be affected. I have not had any trouble but much bigger and you will need some recallibration.
As for the squeak:
Welcome to the world of Ford SD. I have the 99 F250, The have a problem with them and finally started putting in hard plastic spring isolator tips, not sure if they are polyeurethane(sp?) or not. They almost always squeak when cold, and sometimes when its not cold. Everyone has talked about this for three years, still Ford hasn't fixed it. We just learn to ignore it.
Ford says the F150 SuperCab 4x2 with the 5.4 and 3.73 is rated to tow an 8600 lb trailer. With the 4.10 the rating stays at 8600.
The F250 SuperCab 4x2 with the 5.4 and 3.73 is rated to tow only 7500 lbs. With the 4.10, the rating jumps to 9000.
What gives? Any thoughts on which is the better option?
Bigger payload, better brakes, heavier suspension, bigger interior, and a better looking truck in my opinion.
By the time you load a F150 with payload and cooling packages the cost will be similar to that of the SuperDuty..
Time will tell how it all works out.
Some PSD have this cackle thing going on. Lots of discussion about this on the F-D site.
If you've not already, drive it. Diesels are slow getting going so allow adequate time pulling out. My personal take is, you'll either like it right away or hate it. Diesels are not for everybody, just the lucky few. All of the new
diesel rigs are great, if you like oil burners that is.
You'll get about 20-25% better mileage with the PSD and, in some places, diesel is cheaper to boot. The coolant additive that jcave referred to is a standard additive that nearly all diesels use. Having to add it once every 15-20k miles is certainly not a deal-breaker.
My only concern is that I've had to turn the rotors twice in 40k miles. I think that's excessive, but haven't found a cure yet. Some other guys have seen the same thing, while others have gone more than 100k.
Try it out. I think you'll like it, especially try it on a steep grade at highway speeds...
Those brake problems still seem odd. A buddies Z-71 does the same thing but your's is the first Ford I've heard of. Keep us posted on how it works out.
If the PSD that dirtface is talking about has been maintained by a dealer, it's pretty unlikely that they didn't use it...
Yeah, the brakes on mine are really odd. Maybe it's just a fluke, but I don't think so.
Thanks again for all the info. Because the current owner was very unhappy about the squeak thing I'm pretty sure I can get it for what ever the dealer is going to give for a trade-in. Still not sure what to do but, I like the advice about driving it first.
I would venture to say that most people won't buy a PSD unless they are towing a lot of weight. I actually tow a lot of weight and haul quite often but there is no way I would buy the PSD. I have to dive my truck every day, and personally I think the deisel is a dog, it smells, it too loud and the fuel pumps are usually the dirtiest ones of all. I wouldn't want to be stepping in that stuff and then getting in my truck.
I got the V10, twice as a matter of fact. I just picked up the new one on Saturday. If its the F250 look your after you could get be with a V8.
If not, have you considered an off lease F150 or just a used one?
Even if it didn't have the coolant additive, that kind of mileage should be insignificant.
Towing or not, if it's an auto-tranny, check the trans oil. 30k miles is the complete service mileage which involves a complete change getting rid of any burned oil. Check for any sign of burnt tranny oil, there should be none. Might even ask the dealer to throw in this service with the deal if it's not already been done.
Go for a drive, just be warned, that could be all it takes for you to become a PSD owner.
And they say they don't pollute. Yeah right!
Even if it didn't have the coolant additive, that kind of mileage should be insignificant.
Towing or not, if it's an auto-tranny, check the trans oil. 30k miles is the complete service mileage which involves a complete change getting rid of any burned oil. Check for any sign of burnt tranny oil, there should be none. Might even ask the dealer to throw in this service with the deal if it's not already been done.
Go for a drive, just be warned, that could be all it takes for you to become a PSD owner.
Haven't heard any bad noises since, and it's been about 20k miles since the repair.
I really don't think you'll be sorry about getting the diesel, regardless of the opinions of some of the other good folks on this forum. I've had mine for two years and still can't get over how well this thing gets up the hills under a load, especially at high altitudes. I haven't seen anything else that could compare to it.
And 19 mpg on the open road is pretty damn good for a 4x4 1-ton crew cab SD automatic! I'd like to see one of the gas engine guys match that kind of performance...
From what I've read folks with 5.4L don't do all that much better (1 or 2 mpgs more). These trucks weigh 7000 lbs +, and have the aerodynamics of a cinder block, so the 5.4L ends up working harder to move same load as 6.8L V10. If you get the 5.4L you should get the 4.10 rear end to be able to move all that mass - so 8 cyl engine ends up revving faster than 10 cyl and burns almost as much fuel.
What're you going to use it for. Do you tow? Need it for hauliing? Or do you just wanna drive a cool truck? If it's gonna run empty most of the time, and tow infrequently then 5.4L with 4.10s will move a CrewCab respectably. If you get 4x4, the running gear add another 3-400 lbs to vehicle. If you run with 2000 lbs in the bed, or tow heavy, then the 5.4L will leave you wishing for more power. The V10 has power to spare for whatever you ask of it. Besides, it's a blast to stomp the gas, chirp the tires, and leave Honda Civic "rice burners" behind.
That experience, and spending some time my son-in-law's 1995 and 1999 Cummins-powered Ram 2500s, made the difference when it came time for me to buy another truck. I chose the '00 F350 CC LWB 4x4 PSD. My overall mileage with this truck is 16-17 mpg, long-trip about 19 mpg at 65 mph on cruise control with a hard tonneau cover. I have never seen less than 14 mpg under the worst of conditions: towing 10,000# through the Utah mountains (and that was on the little twisty roads, way up in the hills, the freeway performance was more like 15-16 while towing.)
My 5 day/wk commute is 26 miles one-way, half of it on a freeway, and 37 stop lights/signs along the way (Southern Cal, it's so damn crowded here, and the freeway on the home-bound commute is more like a parking lot than a road...)
I drive about 25,000 miles a year, half work and half play. The price of fuel this morning was $1.55 for the cheap gas and $1.39 for #2 diesel. Based on these prices, 11 mpg overall average on a V10 and 16.5 mpg for my PSD, I save more than $1,400 a year in fuel costs. I've got 41,000 miles on the truck now. By the time I hit 75,000 miles, the diesel will have paid for itself. By the time it gets to 300,000 miles, well, you get the picture. I plan to keep this thing until the wheels fall off.
And there's absolutely no comparison between the performance capabilities of the two engines at altitude. The PSD will blow the doors off the V10, hands down.
Max payload F250, CC, LWB, 4x2 is 3055 lbs., with 4x4 it's 2645 lbs.
F350, CC, LWB, SRW, 4x2 is 4140 lbs, 4x4 is 3760 lbs. Gives you an extra 1100 lbs to play with. Even better, an F350 Dooley will give 5000 lbs 4x2, 4480 lbs as a 4x4, plus you get extra stability for towing.
These payloads all assume you have base 5.4L, XL model. (I think they use weight of 6 spd tranny, not auto.) Not sure what A/C and other options weigh. V10 weighs ~200 lbs more, PSD weighs almost 600 lbs more than V8 gasser.
Talk to me about the 6 speed manual. Before I got into trucks I used to drive 4 on the floor sports cars..and I still miss the "control"..what's the general opinion out there about manual v.s. auto trans? I'm 5'4 so I'm assuming that the clutch throw won't be a problem..any other truckies out there with manuals with the monster V10/350 XLT? All opinions appreciated.thanks
Vinny8
As far as the clutch goes, I am assuming the clutches will be the same for a V-10 as a PSD. This is a heavy clutch, but nothing overpowering. In your post you said; "I'm 5'4 so I'm assuming that the clutch throw won't be a problem." Is that a typo? I am 5'10" and it isn't for me, I have a 32" inseam. I can't comment on whether or not the clutch might be a problem. I do know the seat will slide at least 4" forward of where I have mine positioned.
Don't worry about the auto w/V10, I'm on my second truck now. Not a single tranny problem.
They do need service but they come with the drain plug in the pan. I ALWAYS change the tranny fluid each spring before I start towing my camper a lot. It has never seemed the least bit burnt or used up. I put about 20,000 a year on the trucks.
I also love the stick in a sports car, but I will never have one in a tow vehicle or daily driver again.
I bought my truck at a dealership that only handles Ford Trucks. They start with F250s and go all the way up to F-800s, they won't even sell F-150s. By and large they only deal with people who use trucks as a tool to earn a living, so they have to know their product or they don't get any business. You might try to find one like that in your area, and ask to talk to someone in fleet sales.
You're buying a truck for your "fleet" (even if it's only a fleet of one). Your money is just as good as anyone else's - so it wouldn't hurt to try them to get the truck you want. Other good thing about Truck-only dealerships - they may not have a lot of selection on the lot, but since they only sell trucks, they get very high priority when they special order one. My dealer sells 50+ Superduties per month compared to Joe (Mustang, Winstar, Crown Victoria) Ford Dealer who may only sell 3 or 4 SD pickups in the same period. Guess who gets the better Pickup allocation and faster delivery? Also sometimes Ford offers special incentives/rebates for "commercial" customers that regular dealers don't know about - however, Ford's usually stricter about that - you'd have to show proof of owning a business, etc.
Also, does anyone know the reason for the different transmission numbers for a 6 speed for diesel and gas engines? Is there a difference in the transmission or just the mating with the engines?
We have a farm and I'm interested in a truck that can be used to tow relatively heavy loads on occasion, one I can get into and out of wet fields in, carry multiple passengers or lock tools up inside, drive without subsidizing a small Middle Eastern country when empty, and that will last a long time.
I prefer the manual transmission for the flexibility of shifting, would like something I can get into with muddy feet and dirty clothes, then hose out when I'm finished. I am leaning to the F-350 XL Crew Cab with 6 speed and four wheel drive.
Any input from users of similar nature?