Honda Odyssey 1999 - 2004

cwalti · December 2006

I think you are making a mistake by not having the dealer do the maintenance. I am all for 'do-it-yourself' and frugal, but in the case of a $30,000.-- rig I am willing to pay a few extra bucks for dealer work. If you should have any kind of warranty claim and you start swearing on seven bibles that you had done all the maintenance and then some, you are more then likely to get not more than a bit of compassion and sad looks. All your home-grown documentation, if there is any, means little to nothing to a dealer when he has to shell out services on a vehicle with NO documented past! I agree, you might be able to get away with it owning Hondas, but beware and do not blame the dealer if you get put on ice... :-I

macakava · December 2006

Been doing my own maintenance for over 30 years with all my cars, both as a hobby and saving tons of money as well. We have 4 cars in my family and I have taught my sons to do the same as me. Over 30 yrs, that probably equates to more than $200K in having service done by garages, not to mention the unnecessary work that many are duped into doing/paying. Being a professional engineer and mechanically inclined also helped as well. Of all my vehicles, Winney decided to crap out at almost 8 years. All my cars have lasted more than 12 years until I have decided to get rid of them.

The Ody will soon exhaust its 36K warranty with no problems. That said, statistics indicate that it would have a long life especially given my robust PM schedule.

My soon to be 13 year old Lincoln Continental is purring smoothly as new. The probability of it making it to 20 years old looks good, again with my robust PM schedule. The ability to keep my vehicles to a very long life (12+yrs)through my own robust PM has enabled me to invest money (otherwise spent earlier to replace a younger car)sensibly so that I can purchase a new car replacement for cash if I want to, unless there are irresistable promotions like 0% financing that I would be insane not to take.

cwalti · December 2006

I too profess to have a solid technical understanding, and I learned more about my Conti in two years than I know about my Accord in 15 years, this is some indicator...
OK, your '93 Conti is running well...?? ...air ride? ...head gasket? ...transmission? ...radio? ...A/C control module? ...dash delamination? ...switch desintegration???? My '91 Conti would not run for a week without leaving me wondering if I was going to get through the day. It tore a huge hole into my wallet!! No Honda had ever left me stranded. I agree that rigorous PM is a ticket to long life; - FOR THE RIGHT VEHICLE!!! No amount of PM would have kept my Conti or your Winnie alive! I too tend to keep my cars until the wheels come off, and I am suspecting that my '91 Accord will be with us for many more years. I still enjoy driving it! Not as refined as the newer models, but solid and strong!! Today I could kick myself for not buying the '91 SE trim level. ...water under the bridge! In March or April I too want to get an '07 Element EX auto 4WD. This would make four Hondas in my driveway... :-)

macakava · December 2006

It is a fully loaded 1995 Conti with the DOHC 32 valve V8 put into service about 9/94. This was the first year of a new model with the V8. Engine, tranny, and auto air suspension are fine with no problems to today. The mechanic at the annual certification garage asked me many times if I am sure that this car is 12+ yrs old as it looks no more than 3 years old.

This Conti had the usual first year model growing pains covered by warranty. These pains included the auto power locks with its control module. CR had good reliability reports on this Conti model especially 1997 onwards when the early year bugs were addressed. I am concerned about the complex air suspension because it would an expensive repair. But if it fails, I would mostly likely replace the Conti as I have gotten my money's worth from its 13 yr life with me.

My Conti runs great - especially at a stop light and the guy on the right wants to play fresh with me with his car to speed up and get in front of me before the 2 lanes narrows into one. I just simply disengage the traction control and let loose the V8 - fun to see the guy disappear in the rear view mirror.

Hondas are great with long life. They frequently last more than 200K miles. I expect my Ody to last at least that long. Hondas are fun to drive too with their spirited and good driver engagement. When it is time to replace my Conti, I would strongly consider another Honda.

camerauser · December 2006

"If you should have any kind of warranty claim and you start swearing on seven bibles that you had done all the maintenance and then some, you are more then likely to get not more than a bit of compassion and sad looks. "

Could be, but dealer service in 3-5 years could cost about the same as a factory extended warranty. Brakes could cost $700 front and rear. Quite possibly needed twice over 5 years. I already did need this twice on a 2002 Odyssey. And those high dollars for inspections at 30k miles also add up to real dollars.

"I agree, you might be able to get away with it owning Hondas, but beware and do not blame the dealer if you get put on ice... "

Put on ice? That would mean the Honda broke down prematurely. This is also a definite possibility especially with the transmission.

"All your home-grown documentation, if there is any, means little to nothing to a dealer when he has to shell out services on a vehicle with NO documented past!"

I already gave the dealer a generous profit when buying. I have had some routine overpriced services done at the dealer. For routine service, dealer costs me more time and money than do it yourself.

If that I get a premature breakdown for the supposedly reliable Honda and do not get a significant discount on repair, my Honda buying will end immediately.

fezo · December 2006

Oh, I know THAT drill. 95 Windstall. Say no more!

I believe Ford hires former prisin guards as customer service agents.

cwalti · December 2006

...did you recognize any of them... :-)

justaveragejoe · December 2006

Preventative maintenance is the key. You can do it or the dealer can do it. 30 bucks to have the dealer change the oil or 100 bucks for the dealer to change the oil and check the 125 other items that need to be inspected. If you do the work yourself, get the repair manual just to that you know what to look for. Since you guys are talking old cars, my 36 year old GMC truck has 295,000 miles on it. I have the service manual and many pages are well used and greasy.

macakava · December 2006

What a way to go! Mon! The service manual is very useful to have around - I agree.

What is also important is to do the PM before it becomes an unscheduled repair. E.g. Replace the brake pads before they are worn down so that the rotors are not scarred and require turning/planing. Many people are forced/duped into a $500+ brake job when a pad replacement for about $50 will work. Been doing that for over 25 yrs!

For engine oil changes, it costs me about $5 in parts for my Ody and $7 for the Conti. I stock up on cases of oil and filters on sale. Compare that to more than 4 times the cost at dealer or garage. And I know what I am using and am doing it right especially after 30yrs of doing it.

Similar costing savings for tranny oil changes, brake jobs, hose/belt changes, etc. The total savings add up to very large numbers for up to 4 vehicles at any time over the past 30 yrs!

grandtotal · January 2007

Occasionally the cruise control on my 02 Odyssey fails to engage, in a situation where I would expect it to. So far the remedy has been simple - I turn off the cruise master switch and then turn it back on and all is well. Anybody ever have this happen to them? If so what is the solution?

dolphin · January 2007

Might be your brake switch is failing...

grandtotal · January 2007

Thanks, I had not considered that.

nvd · January 2007

i have a 2002 odyssey ex-l that i have to change 2 front engine mounts the other day, as soon as i picked up the car from the dealer, i noticed that the steering effort is harder than before. is there a possibility that in changing the engine mount, the mechanic has damaged something in the steering system? the van has almost 59k miles on it.
thanks.

cwalti · January 2007

Yep, you may have some binding in the steering... Swapping out the engine mounts does NOT affect steering effort!!

Chris.

nvd · January 2007

Chris,
Thank you for your thought. Being not mechanically savy, what does binding in the steering mean and what are the usual causes and fixes?
Thank you very much.
nvd

jipster · January 2007

Yo macakava... welcome back mon.

Haven't heard from you in about a year. Where ya been mon?

basurasolution · January 2007

Hi!!!
I'm a your local Toad,Root, Vine,Dolphin wants to enter HONDA WORLD PIPELINE. Welcome to Oroquieta City, Philippines. Thank you very much.

Regard's,
limpyobaybay corals care

dealkiller · January 2007

Our Odyssey's warranty has expired since last November. The closest Honda dealer to our house is about 10 miles away. I started to think doing basic maintenance myself at home for fun (I can do other stuff when waiting for the oil to drain out of the engine. Hate the so called courtesy car wash too. Its just a way that dealer can make easy money, and thats why a regular oil change can cost something close to $30. For the past, theyve never done a decent job on the car wash).

The first thing I would like to do is oil change. Since my labor cost nothing, I decide to use genuine Honda parts. After I tried order oil filter online, I got myself confused. There are 2 oil filters for our 2004 Odyssey EX.

Part # Description List Price Sale Price
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------
90015-PH1-013HOLDER, OIL FILTER 3.93 3.07
15400-PR3-315CARTRIDGE SET, OIL FILTER (TOYO ROKI) 5.97 4.65

Does anyone know the difference between these 2 filters? Is it worth using the expensive one?

Also, is there any pitfall when changing oil at home? Any special tools?

macakava · January 2007

Been doing my own car maintenance and repair(including engine and tranny oil changes) for over 30yrs.
I never had to take my 2004 Ody EX back to the dealer for any warranty(no problems) or PM service.

Regarding oil changes, run to your nearest Advance Auto Parts store now and stock up on the their Ody oil filter, Total Grip PN AA7317. It is made by either Purolator or Fram for Advanced Auto. It is on BOGO free sale now, i.e. 2 for $2.88 = $1.44 each. Same deal last year at 2 for $2.48. Do not use the other new replacement PN in their catalog - that filter is smaller, holds less oil and also has less filtration. Been using this on my Ody and my son's 2005 Maxima since new. No need to fall for the marketing hype of the other expensive brand names! We have stocked up on about 24 filters. We have also stocked up on engine oil whenever on sale & especially with rebates. Our cost for oil change parts(oil & filter) is $5 - $7, depending on oil price.

You can dumped you used oil at Advanced Auto or Auto Zone - who accept them.

Have fun - it is a piece of cake!

dealkiller · January 2007

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I have got a Honda filter from the dealer. It cost me $9+, totally a rip off. I remembered that someone had mentioned that genuine Honda filter will maintain certain pressure of engine oil when starting engine. Is that true? Do you feel any difference by using FRAM product? I'll visit Advance Auto Parts this afternoon to stock up FRAM oil filter. Right now, I am stuck at not having the right tools. The socket I used to use to loose the drain plug is too small. Do you happen to know the size of the drain plug?

macakava · January 2007

You can feel no difference in using different brands of filters. They are constructed basically to do a similar job of cleaning oil. Saw no difference in my past 30+yrs of oil changes. Those who claim to see a difference may be imagining "something strange in their heads". FRAM, Purolator, Wix, Bosch, Quaker State, STP, Total Grip (made by Purolator or Fram for Advanced Auto), etc - I have used them all.

Check out this interesting evaluation someone did on oil filters a few years ago,

http://mymiata.paladinmicro.com/MiataOFilters.htm

17mm is the drain plug size I recall.

dealkiller · January 2007

macakava: I did check out the Total Grip filter at Advanced Auto this afternoon. The price is just like what you said ($2.88 for 2). I believe in what you said about different brand oil filters. Just my observation: the $9 Honda filter is much heavier and more refined than the $1.44 Total Grip filter. Do you think the material will maybe make some differences? The link is very educational.

I checked with a sales guy in Advanced Auto, he found out from their database that the drain plug size (the part that screw into the oil pan) is 14mm (???). But he was not sure what size is the plug cap. I found out that the cap of my drain plug is 22mm. How weird?!

macakava · January 2007

Different filter brands may use different materials for their filtering and internal construction. But the end objective is the same, i.e. cleaning the oil. Some/most may intentionally do just that for marketing purposes, i.e. to create a perception that a particular brand is superior to others. Do we need a Cadillac to take us from point A to B when a Chevy can achieve the same result? If we need attention and seeking status, then that is a different mindset.

The Total Grip filters do not have a smooth finish to them. There may be some paint overspray over the edges. But that does not matter. And it does have a nice end grip to easily remove/unscrew it. The filter screws into the engine block below out of sight. "Aunty Mildred cannot see it to complain". What matters is that it works and cleans oil like the Purolator or Fram brand that makes it.

Point is - I have used many different filter brands for the past 30+yrs with no issues and I keep the cars in my family for over 10+ yrs and with high mileage to support it.

22mm is very large and 14mm sounds small. SO maybe my 17mm may be correct as it sits almost dead center! How is that for logic :-O)) I would know for sure when I change the Ody oil next month.

cwalti · January 2007

...I think you got it right with 17mm. It is a very common size like the 10mm for all the assorted small stuff...

dealkiller · January 2007

The drain plug does looks strange to me. The more weird thing is: at the end of the thread, it even has a hole. And there are some small parts in that hole. On the cap side, it has a black rubber cap on top of the metal. I haven't seen this before. Maybe previous Honda oil change guy screwed my drain plug, and this is a "special" replacement?! You guys may be right, but I did loose the plug by using 22mm socket.

macakava · January 2007

Sounds indeed like a replacement plug with its 22mm size and the description you gave. My 04 Ody's is just pure metal and about 17mm size. The original plug may have been screwed up (i.e. very overtightened). Not to scare you, I hope that the threads on the drain hole were not messed up to need this bigger plug to fit.

Was this oil change done by outside fast lube place or dealer? I would expect it more from the former.

robr2 · January 2007

It sounds like someone replaced the drain plug with a quick drain plug. With one of those installed, they can connect a hose to the plug and use suction to remove the oil.

It makes for a quicker change. Drawbacks, I don't know.

See this:

http://hometown.aol.com/qckchanger/

dealkiller · January 2007

I think robr2 is right. The thread on the drain hole is OK, and thread on the drain plug is sound too. This one must be some kinds of quick drain plug installed by the dealer, so they can be more efficient. The enlarged cap is for accomadate the real drain hole, and the rubber cap must be a protective measure for the real drain hole. I will take a close look when I do next oil change. Thank you guys! Your suggestions and moral support is greatly appreciated. It's always feel good to know that a bunch of guys out there share the same interest with you.

fibber2 · January 2007

Not sure that I really agree with you that a filter is a filter is a filter....

The "Miata" study is one of three that I have seen in recent years that considered the internal construction of the Fram to be marginal in terms of filter material, surface volume and endcap sealing. If it fails in use, it becomes either a restriction (and oil goes thru the bypass unfiltered), or blows out (same net effect - no filtering).

My own personal experience with STP was very negative on a Nissan that had the cartridge facing on a downward angle. The anti-drain-back valve (the rubber seal at the outer holes) failed on several, requiring a 'fill' on each cold start. So when you needed oil the most to guard against wear, it let you run dry. Granted, this fail mode would not apply to the Ody (faces straight up), but does speak to their build quality.

Purolator, on the other hand, supplies the OEM filter for a few car makers, and seems to be well constructed based on these independent studies. If there was a way to tell which Total Grip units were made by Purolator, that would indeed be a real bargin - good quality at a great price!

Steve

jipster · January 2007

You can feel no difference in using different brands of filters.

You may not feel a difference mon... but according to your own link, your engine can.

Not sure why you would post all filters are the same, then provide a link where one filter is rated a "P.O.S" :confuse:

Maybe you are imagining "something strange" in your head? :P

But, for the most part, I would think the vast majority of filters would do a good job... some better than others. And a few you would want to stay away from.

vtwonder · January 2007

I have a 2001 Odyssey EX with automatic temperature control. I live in VT. I usually have the temperature set to 76 degrees. So far we have a mild winter in VT and I have not been using the heater much. This past week we have the first cold blast and I realized the van never warm up. I can feel the air coming out from the register is luke warm, not cold but not hot either. I have tried to set the temperature to maximum (90 degrees) and the blower just sent more air out (run at maximum speed) but the air is not any warmer. I talked to my co workers who owned the Odyessy also and they all claimed they have plenty of heat from their vans. I have the van serviced with the 60K tune up from the dealer last month and I am sure the dealer did not change the coolant. I drive eight miles to work and it takes about 20 to 25 minutes. I have the van parked inside the garage overnight. And I recall the van was keeping me toasty warm for the past five winters.

Any idea what's the problem. Thanks.

fibber2 · January 2007

A few quick things to check and report back on:

1) What does the temp gauge read? Is it coming up to the normal position, or is it perpetually reading low? Do you remember how far from home it usually took to get to full operating temp, and how does that compare to now? Could be a stuck engine thermostat.

2) Try the rear heat. Does it feel normal (hot)? If so, something is amiss with the front heating system.

3) Try shutting the front completely off, wait a bit, then hit Auto. Mine occasionally fouls and needs to be cycled.

I have not had a need to study the Ody specifically, but in general regulation of the heat up front is usually accomplished by a combo of two methods. There is a valve on a water line that controls hot fluid flow to the heater core in the HVAC box under the dash near the glove box. And within the box is a motor controlled flap that mixes cold cowl air with the warm air off the core. Either of these two could be messed up.

If you can find the water lines that go from the engine to the firewall, you might be able to see if they feel hot (indicating hot fluid flow into the core). If not, the water valve is either bad or not getting a signal to open. How that valve is actuated (motor or cable), or where it is will take some diagram study. Sorry I cannot be more specific.

Steve

macakava · January 2007

After more than 30 years(actually closer to 40) of my own car maintenance using many brands of filters with no issues, I would think that would speak for itself.

HURRY UP - the BOGO free special on Total Grip ends soon, Mon!

Sometimes, you do see strange things happening to other heads!

macakava · January 2007

The Ody filter by Total Grip is said to be made by Purolator. Total Grip apparently uses the Fram's number model apparently for easier cross referencing.

Same Fram number used as well for Total Grip filter for my Lincoln Continental 4.6L DOHC V8. No engine failure in her almost 13years. She gets "lubed" regularly, Mon!

firemann1 · January 2007

I'm guessing the engine coolant thermostat is stuck in the open position thus not allowing the engine to get to operating temperature.

cwalti · January 2007

...that should lead to higher fuel consumption, cat constipation, and other likely error code reading if the engine does not warm up within a spec time frame... ???

firemann1 · January 2007

Thermostat stuck in the open position . . . . Result in increased fuel consumption? Most likely. Result in cat constipation or error code? Don't know.

Fibber2's suggestion to watch the engine temperature gauge is good. If the engine temperature is consistently low even after the engine should have warmed up to operating temp, that usually indicates a stuck open thermostat.

vtwonder · January 2007

fibber2 and others,

Thanks for your feedback. Here's my findings to fibber's questions.

1) The temperature gauge do reach normal reading, but it seems to take a few more minutes to get there than before(not 100% sure, can be my bias to make myself believe in the delay).

2)I did try the rear heater once the temperature gauge reached normal reading. I am by myself so I had to park the van first. The air from the rear register did feel warmer that the front (when I was driving) but still not hot. But when I did a front to rear comparison when the van was in the Park position, the air from the front register did feel warmer (still not hot) and matched the warmness of the air from the rear register.

3) It made no difference to turn off the heat, wait a few minutes and restart.

I am not sure where to locate the water lines as I am not handy when it comes to work on automobile.

Last time when I filled up the gas tank, I got an average of about 16mpg which is typical in the winter time. It goes up to 17 or 18 mpg in the summer.

Is there such a thing as partial stuck open thermostat? My theory is based on 2) above that the air was warmer when the van parked for a while and not moving.

I plan to take the van back to the dealer to service this problem. Thanks for all of your inputs.

bluemattysgirl · January 2007

We are looking at an 04 Odyssey with 52000 mi, one owner, carfax is clean. Dealer will not budge on sticker price of 19995. Granted, we are trading a 2000 Ford Windstar which he says he will give us 4500 for. We've never owned a Honda, but hear about the quality/resale etc etc. Very nervous about buying any used vehicle with that many miles. Our other possible option is an 07 Dodge Grand Caravan with a sticker of 21100. Any suggestions??

cwalti · January 2007

I would buy a Honda with a 100,000 miles over a Dodge, Ford, or Chevy with less than 30,000 miles. I own a '91 Accord with 170,000+ mls, a '99 Odyssey with 85,000+ mls, and an '05 CR-V with ~15,000 mls. All are in fine shape and running daily. Since I have all Hondas in my driveway carlife is bliss.
Check the background of 'your' Ody and make sure it hasn't been totaled or flooded, or...??

blackexv6 · January 2007

I the Odyssey an LX or EX model? If it's an EX then $19,995 is not too bad. LX too high. I always buy new Hondas because the used prices are too close to the new ones (have excellent resale value).

For comparison:

2007 Odyssey LX - around $23,700 ($26,240 MSRP)

2007 Odyssey EX - $26,500 ($28,518 MSRP)

You may get another $500-$1000 if you agressively shop.

Lastly, I own both generations of Odysseys ('00 & '06). After driving the '06 for a few months, I realize the '00 is built much better, quieter & smoother engine.

Also, be aware there are some design defects with the new ones including the droning defect, power steering pumps, & bad engine mounts.

jipster · January 2007

I've never seen a new 07 Grand Caravan with a "sticker" of only $21,100. Must be pre-owned or demo?

Honda high resale hurts pre-owned car buyers. Better to spend an extra $3k and buy a new Ody LX, or an extra $1,100 and buy the GC if new.

bluemattysgirl · January 2007

The background on the carfax shows none of those issues. It was bought at this dealer and serviced at this dealer. Don't know how else to check possible accidents that weren't reported.

bluemattysgirl · January 2007

I misspoke...the original MSRP was, I believe 26-28K....another local dealer is having a "blowout" and offered this same SXT for 21,685...I then threw that at this dealer, who promised to beat that price by $500. It is a new vehicle. Thanks for your input.

bluemattysgirl · January 2007

The Ody is an EX-L (love those heated leather seats!) Our issue is that we can't afford a new one and it is VERY difficult in our area to find a used one (ie, small, rural, nearest city 40-50 miles away and I've heard they just don't need to bargain cause they know they will sell). We are also trading a 2000 Windstar (would never buy one again...EVER) which is hurting us as well. Feel like we're in a no-win situation.

I'm unfamiliar with the droning defect...what is it? I know the 04 has 2 recalls and the dealer assured me that in order for the vehicle to be a certified used vehicle, those issues were addressed.

Honestly, I loved the ODY...the mileage bugs me even though I've heard the reliability is fantastic. The Grand Caravan...driving it today and it has way more interior noise than I like (much like my Windstar). Otherwise, it handles nicely and I love the Stow n Go.

fibber2 · January 2007

Sorry, but been out of town on business, and no time to research. If the van reaches and stays at normal operating temp, even if it now gets there a bit slowly, you should be getting great heat after a few minutes.

Looked at wifes van today (while replacing the battery - another story for my next entry...). Behind the engine on the firewall, right below the center spark plug you will find a cable operated valve, and rubber hoses that go thru the wall into the underdash region.

This evening I was looking on another Ody board for something else and stumbled upon a thread in which several reported no heat, and traced it to this valve. Sounds like it might sieze up and break the actuator arm attached to the cable. Someone said it was a $25 part. One possibility. Hope this helps narrow your search.

Steve

user777 · January 2007

sounds plausible. might there also be a problem with air in the system? specially if the coolant was fluhed/replaced incorrectly not long ago?

dealkiller · January 2007

bluemattysgirl: I don't know if this is proper to talk about this here. But if you are desperate about buying a reliable used car + if you live somewhere that close to central Ohio. I would like to sell you my wife's ride so that we can buy a new 07 Odyssey. It's a 04 Odyssey EX with 33,000 mile on it. The color is Sagebrush (dark gray). It's in perfect condition. Love the car, but we feel uneasy that it doesn't have side curtain airbags and all those useful gadgets like on the newer model (we have 2 kids). Everything has been taken care of very well. We have all the maintenance records. Don't response if you are not interested. Please email to jqh26@yahoo.com

fibber2 · January 2007

Very possible, Sam. If you go back a page or two, I was responding to set of circumstances that another member posted. He didn't mention cooling system service in the recent past, just that he suddenly realized as the weather grew colder that he had virtually no heat.

Two person job - one to work the controls, the other to watch and see if the cable and valve arm moves. Plus a hand on the pipe to see if it gets hot, and if the return line gets hot. If that looks OK, then on to other possibilities!

Steve

vtwonder · January 2007

Steve,

Took the Ody to dealer yesterday. They let the Ody parked outdoor for few hours to cool down and then drove it for a few miles to warm up. They measured the air coming out from the register (bottom vent) to be 135 to 140 degrees which met the Honda spec. They claimed by the time the air hit any part of the human body, it would drop to roughly 80 degrees depending on the outside temperature. I asked them did they check the cable operated valve and they said yes and the valve was moving freely. They said it did not look like a stuck thermostat based on the temperature gauge movement. The bottom line is nothing wrong with the heating system. They told me I should not expect to feel as warm as a passenger car due to the sheer volume of the van.

When my wife picked me up from the dealer after I dropped off the Ody, I can feel right away her Accord was a lot warmer than my van. She had her Accord parked outside the driveway overnight and the Ody was parked inside the garage. The outside temp was about -5 degrees yesterday morning and I would say about 20 degrees warmer insider the garage. And no doubt the Accord was a lot warmer than the Ody driving the same distance.

Right now I am puzzled by this. Maybe the dealer is right. I should not expect the Ody to be as warm as the Accord in extreme cold weather for a 20 to 25 minutes drive.

Honda Odyssey 1999 - 2004

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