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Ford's new 5-20 oil
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Comments
but you have a good point.
Personally I believe they have a much larger emphasis (requirement) on gas mileage than they do on engine longevity, most consumers these days don't keep vehicles forever and they know it (they push leases pretty heavy every time I've talked to them.) I am probably out on a limb here but I really do like to keep vehicles for a long time, has cost me much less over the last several years all vehicles considered. After a few years of the newer lighter oils I will see how engines have done and will re-evaluate, but for now, I'm siding with my experience. Time will tell I'm sure. This topic is doin good!
I'm all ears folks
Rando
david
The new 5W20 oils were designed for mileage and while I'd use them during the warranty period, I'd never let them go past the 4,000 mile mark ... semi-synthetic or not.
I know that early multi-viscosity oil formulations were prone to forming sludge ... especially 10W40 ... but that was a while ago and the stuff should flow essentially like a 10W30 in the cold. I don't see how you could damage an engine by using it. 20W50 and 30W maybe, but not 10W40 ... which used to be thought of as a rather thin oil.
Rando, there had to be something wrong with that motor of yours. dino oil, changed every 5,000 miles with the cheapest filter available should see an engine well past the 100,000 mile mark. Even 5W30 should have kept it alive much longer than that. Did it go slowly or all at once? Any signs of trouble? I assume you got one of GM's bad apples ... and that's a shame. I used to be a big Chevy man. <:^(
--- <b>Bror Jace
...they get older. As the parts wear, the gaps would grow.
Wouldn't this cause lower oil pressure at operating temps?
If so, you could/should move to a 5W30 at that point.
Just thinking and wondering out loud.
TB
I live in St. Louis, not Phoenix, so I can't vouch for his shop. I do know he seems quite knowledgeable on his radio show.
Again, this is not to state that I believe that 5W20 is anything other than an attempt to squeeze .1 mpg at the expense of 50,000 of engine life. There's a big difference between 10W40 and 5W20.
http://www.salemboysauto.com/default.htm
that motor just started ticking one morning when the wife cranked it up (not a particularly cold one either and we have a garage), she called me from work and told me that she noticed the sound as soon as the engine started, no noise at all the day before. I agree, probably just statistics NOT in my favor this time.
Tboner,
Theoretically as the engine wears and all the tight clearances loosen up the pressure indicated at the top of the motor WOULD decrease over time, but it would not show up if the pressure sensor is lower on the block close to the filter, at that point it would stay about the same over the life of motor. I have never been able to figure out if the oil pressure is sensed before or after the filter, and the filter bypass would make it difficult to use a differential to tell when the filter is getting stopped up. Your right though, if we could tell when we have "worn in the motor enough" that would be when to start accomodating that aspect.
Csandste mentioned the decreased zinc in the newer oil (I also read that somewhere else wish I could remember where) which is decreased to make catalytic converters last longer, that zinc is an engine wear protection componant too.
I think that manufactures these days are really under the gun as for increasing the CAFE ratings, they really push leases as much as possible, and more and more people only keep the vehicle for a few years and then trade. It is easy for someone to buy an older vehicle after it was leased and then if it dies early they can always blame the previous owners for possible neglect. Fewer people are keeping the vehicle for 10+ years anymore and those people are the ones that really need to read topics like this one.
Anybody found any NEW oil composition comparisons?
Good morning everyone
Rando
I'm trying to remember if my Contour has a sensor up there. There are fittings in the head for this, as the Vortech supercharger kit uses them 8^)
TB
Rando, I still think you got a bad motor ... not sure the odds of that coming from GM these days. I doubt 10W40, 15W40, 20W50 would have held it together.
As for lower levels of zinc, this started with the SJ classification. I had first read about this on use.net forums but I've seen it confirmed in a number of articles since then. Oils normally have about 1 to 1.5% ZDDP in them with the high-performance oils having even more (2+%) but Mobil 1 has 0.75% last time I looked at their MSDS.
--- Bror Jace
While I don't understand many of the technical aspects dealing with the composition of the motor oil (actually I do but hate getting so technical on these boards), I doubt very much that your above statement is why they switched to the 5W-20 oil. The reason delaerships push leases is simple. they make mor money. They sell someone more car then they can normally afford plus they get the car back in good shape after 3-4 years. And then sell it again to someone else at an inflated price. heck of a concept.
Doesn't anyone else see the trend that has been developing over the past decade. Oil is being made thinner. many of you pointed out that you used to use 20W-40, then 10W-40 then 10W-30 and now 5W-30. So isn't it natural as engines have improved and now have tighter tolerances, a thinner oil is needed to properly lubricate them. How legitimate would an auto manufacturer be if the engines failed at 100,000 miles? How have Honda and Toyota built there reputation? By building engines that fail after 75,000 miles? I don't think so.
Change is good guys. Use the 5W-20 if the manual recommends it.
I keep thinking that some engine design engineer has a "secret" version of the owners manual that says "after warranty flip to page 100.....then says "now, to make your vehicle last longer...
I probably am not making any converts here, but as for my vehicles, I care more for engine longevity than any incremental gas mileage savings the light oil gives me (I only believe in thickening up during the summer anyway, and after at least 50-75k miles minimum as well)
You know we could all start up an engine oil consulting group for the major manufacturers,
we would develop a 5w-20-50wyni oil (wyni "when you need it")
Hear from y'all soon
Rando
manual "recommends" 5W20, and like a lot of folks I couldn't find it--and didn't want to. The 302 V8 pushrod in my Explorer is the paradigm of the low-tech reiprocating engine. No way am I gonna run
sewing machine/gun oil in this old warhorse.
I changed to Mobil One 5W30 at 2000 miles and change every 3000 with a Motorcraft filter. If 5W30 syn isn't thin enough, then what is?
During the heat of summer The 10w30 pours like water at room temp (room is hot during summer folks, go with it)
That 302 YGRIEGA mentioned has been around a long time, so has the 350 Chevy (4.3 Chevy same basic design), I almost think that the mfg'rs would have increased oil-pressure which would work well with thinner oils but doesn't look like they have gone that way, seems like if they are making tolerances closer supposedly requiring thinner oil, that they would also be sealing seams/seals and gaskets better which would allow a little higher pressure to help the thinner oil out...anyone got any info on that?
Rando
Mechanics who know such things know that the clearances have not tightened up ... in fact some are actually greater now than they were a decade or more ago ... and they certainly didn't tighten up on EVERY model Ford and Honda sell in one model year.
And the car companies don't really car if people get 'only' 100-150,000 miles out of their motor. Personally, I keep cars a long time and then sell them to people I know so that amount of durability simply isn't enough.
If it were me, I'd use the stuff in winter, during the warranty period and then switched to something heavier like 5W30 for the summer and once I'm out of warranty.
Is there anyone out there who thinks this 5W20 stuff was introduced for any other reason other than CAFE and give some REAL information on why they believe this? "Trust the auto companies, they know what's best for you and your car" isn't convincing me one bit.
--- Bror Jace
One man's opinion: Change the oil in your vehicle
YOURSELF. I may be wasting good money with my anal 3000 mile syn changes, but I know exactly what's in my engine. Hey, it makes me happy.
Okay?
I think this topic can die now.
We better now?
Good afternoon
Rando
--- Bror Jace
Maybe they been readin Edmunds?????
Hello to Saratoga Springs. I left 20 years ago, but never sold my house near there. Always come for the races in August.
Does anyone know who makes this MOTORCRAFT brand oil?
RE; opera_house_wk: The reason there is no gunk or in the filters is you change the motor oil so frequently. If it works for you, go for it. I use what the manual says and change it evry 5000 miles. I would do 7500 miles but my driving lately ahve been a mixture of highway and city.
The color, even if jet black, is not necessarily an indicator of poor oil/lubrication.. Probable but not always.
In general, the semi-synthetic 5W20 oils (which I believe is all of them, depending on your definition of the word "synthetic") are now about the same price as the newer SL class of oils ... which are all "semi-synthetic" in that they are formulated with isomerized/hydrocracked crude oil stocks.
--- Bror Jace