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Saturn ION

1356767

Comments

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Yes, larger compacts are the new wave, but Saturn takes it a bit too far. The small sedan is what made the company and is what it has survived on all these years. Abandoning it wouldn't be a smart move, regardless of what happens to the L series. So, your statement regarding small cars not being a good way to find market doesn't make sense. Small cars always has been Saturn's market. Increasing size to increase interior room is fine and dandy (to a certain extent), but 185" in length is a bit too long for an entry level car, especially considering its actual interior space. The car doesn't need to be so long to have good interior and trunk space. The new Aerio has almost the exact same large trunk (14.6 cu ft) and 90 cu ft of interior room with an overall length of only 171.3". So what did the extra 14" of length get you, a measly 3 cu ft of extra space. See my point? The car's packaging and use of space could have been much better.
    As for the center gauges, it is a big deal to a lot of people. I read the GM article and it stated the gauges are in the same line of sight as your side view mirrors. Well, for someone like me, who almost never uses those mirrors, it would not be in my normal line of sight. It's not natural to look to your side constantly. I shouldn't have to get "used" to something. It should feel right from the beginning (the interior is what you have to look at all the time). Yes, the Mini uses a similar arrangement, but the dash layout is more normal looking (no big pregnant pod sticking on top of the middle of the dash angled toward the driver) and the tachometer is still directly in front of the driver, where it should be. I suppose those who drive automatics wouldn't have a need to look at the tachometer and therefore might not be bothered as much by its location. However, for the city driver with a stick who likes to see what his engine is doing, its distracting to look to the side (think of how distracting it is to look at the radio and HVAC controls) and directs your attention just as much from the road as looking down.
    Lastly, I may like something to look nice but road manners are a top priority. The delta platform may be rigid and handle good in other applications but I sort of doubt the Ion will be a hot performer. It uses a semi independent rear suspension that is not capable of providing as smooth of a ride nor as good handling as an independent setup. The electric steering in the Vue has not been praised for its linear response and natural feel either. There are other cars that don't require you to have to deal with an unusual and ugly dash to get good performance. It's really too bad Saturn made so many mistakes. They need a car that appeals to just about anyone, not one that turns people away.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "The small sedan is what made the company and is what it has survived on all these years. Abandoning it wouldn't be a smart move"

    Saturn sales have been in free fall since '96 and they need a new car big time! GM's deep pockets are what they have been "surviving" on.

    Bringing out another S series reskin would have been sudden death. Matching and exceeding the Asians is what it's all about now, not sticking to "what made the company" while sales dive.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    yuck.

    the only thing this car has going for it is the ecotec engine.

    that, and plastic doors, i mean, gotta have something that won't dent when people pelt it spontaneously with rocks and garbage.

    WHAT IS THE DEAL with the interior? Echo is something to copy? That steering wheel is gonna have a litter! It looks like the StaPUF man. Its poofier than hot Krispy Kremes on a Sat. morning!

    Lunchbox and kitchen garbage can grade plastics as usual.

    Moving to the exterior we see that a Neon has mated with the [non-permissible content removed] end of the Altima. A hint of beetle in the arc of the roof. That rear door must have been cheap to fabricate.....check out that completely straight cut line! That's brutal! I can't even quantify the issues with the C-pillar.

    Meanwhile, more and more buyers queue up at VW dealers swapping up the classy looking Jetta.

    "Quad" coupe is not so bad looking. What's the deal....GM dropped the "Quad4" so now they gotta have the "QUADcoupe?"

    Why can't GM design a decent looking small car? Why do they always have this freak show quality to them?

    To me the Protege and Focus (read...Ford products) still have the most attractive compact products.
  • tlindemantlindeman Member Posts: 16
    Wow...initial reaction to the design of this car is a little hot to say the least. Although I place a little more emphasis on substance than style I have to agree that GM is once again foisting something "different" on the public hoping that it will "catch on". I'll use the Pontiac Aztec as another example...where do they get these designers? The interior of the Ion is truly atrocious. Considering the resistance to the Echo (a very fine little car) because of the central instrument "pod", Saturn decided maybe the idea would work better in one of their cars. Also, just when you thought they couldn't design an uglier steering wheel than the 2 spoked lump they use now they come up with one even more grotesque...hopefully the actual production models will have a wheel a little more appealing. The electric steering is not considered an improvement in the Vue with it's quirky feel for the sake of a miniscule power savings but here again they decided to use it anyway. Thankfully, the drivetrain of this car seems to be proven and hopefully the build quality will be up to par. Please give us style, comfort and functionality and stop trying to sell vehicles with gimmicks.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    regfootball : Some how I just knew you would hate it.

    tomcat : You hit it on the head. Saturn has to match size and comfort of the Civic, Focus and Corolla if it wants to compete as there will be a LOT of cross shopping.

    tlindeman : Problem with the Echo isn't only the interior gauges. The car is just ugly all over. I think you will see more center gauges in other cars soon. I have heard many younger people comment on how cool they are and I personally don't care, you get used to it.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Should have a "Inspired by Echo" badge on its interior. Nasty steering wheel (is it a bumper car??) and who really wants centre mounted gauges??

    Other than that looks competitive for those who like the exterior.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    but building economical. For the NA market, the advantage of a small car was that it wieghed less so got better gas mileage. The Delta platform is larger, but improvements in technology keep it light. In addition, the superior technology in the ecotec engine will no doubt allow a manual to get miles per gallon above the earlier Saturns.

    The ION will not be sold in Europe or Japan where the roads are narrow and there is little parking space. Except for fuel economy, there really is no advantage to having 176 inches or so when its buyers will mostly all have garages and drive on wide roads and expressways. And since the ION will deliver fuel economy as it is, the additional length harms nothing.

    On the other hand, the Delta platform places the wheels farther away from the occupants. This means the ION wil handle better than the S series. It also means the ION can have a stiffer suspension without any additional discomfort to the occupants as bumps and bounces are farther away.

    Even where I live - crowded Chicago - I cannot see any real advantage to buying a very small car unless you are hooked on the looks.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Well said. The ION will be hugely superior in every way to the old S-series. I don't even fit well in an S-series it's so small and I'm only 5'10.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    If you think that's bad, they tried to rent me a 2001 S Series one time. I am 6'3 and weigh about 260lbs. NEVER gonna happen! :)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ack! Yes, the front leg room on the s-series is ridiculous. The cars are good for shorter people, but that's about it.

    Looking at more photos and the ION really is good looking. Still don't care for the steering wheel though. Hope they change it, but they probably won't.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The more I look at the ION the less I like it. Its clearly aimed at Saturn lovers. The interior is aweful and the exterior is very mediocre executed.

    I'll wait for the Chevy Delta Cavalier replacement if not the wife will decide between the Vibe and the upcoming 2004 Chevy Vectra.

    Also, Saturn doesn't validate GM Credit card points, another big dissapointment in my honest opinion.

    Lutz, How did you get this car come out like this?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "The interior is aweful and the exterior is very mediocre executed".

    And your Impala is better how?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Logic1: I don't get your "logic". By your reckoning, we might as well all drive huge Suburbans and Grand Marquis simply because our roads allow the extra space. Let me guess, you come from the era whose slogan was "bigger and longer is always better"? The longer the car, the less nimble feeling it is and the harder it is to park. Again, I ask, why have the extra length if it doesn't add space? It's a complete waste! A lot of people prefer smaller cars because they don't need to carry 5 passengers around, like the ease of parking, and like the nimble feel (I'm not talking Metro-sized cars, just large subcompacts and small compacts). The Ion is now about the same size as the 90-97 Accords, but has less interior space. What happened to the Civic-sized car? The Ion is definitely better then the S series, no doubt about that, and its about time they got a new car. Saturn sales have plummeted because the design has been too stale for too long and the fact they only sold 1 car for so many years, not because small cars aren't popular. Oh, and I wouldn't hold your breath on the Ecotec's fuel economy. It's a much larger engine then the old one and it only gets 26/33 city/hwy mileage in the L series. In other words, expect a large drop in fuel economy over the current cars.

    dindak: I don't know what planet you live on, but I'm 22 and no one my age I have talked to about cars has found the Echo's gauge cluster "cool". Every one of them hates the gauge location and think its the worst design they have ever seen, along with the Aztec's exterior. These cars were styling exercises meant to attract my age bracket and they have all bombed. Why Saturn would choose to copy the Echo is beyond me. It's definitely not because my age group told them it was cool.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Actually I was referring to kids and teenagers. I think center gauges are ok too though I do think the Echo as a whole is an ugly car.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I think it is a safety feature, since it is at the same level with the outside mirrors, you don't have to take your eyes off the road to look at the gauges. If you do not like the center gauges because that's not what you used to, wait until you see drive-by-wire systems starting to appear in cars, that will freak you out (I did)!
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    So I can go to the pub and have the car drive me home!

    Seriously, my problem with many of the current skid control systems being offered is that they don't give you the full solution, a car that not only stops skids but knows how to follow the road. To someone who is used to compensating for skids on their own, this system will really freak them out and like people who lift the brake pedal when ABS starts pulsing it, you'll probably confuse the vehicle systems if you try to fight the skid at the same time that it is doing its thing. If I'm going to have a computer driver, I want the full deal!

    Why just centre mounted instruments? Why not go for a full HUD? Use cameras to display images of the 'mirrors' on the windshield too, whydontcha?
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I think it is a safety feature, since it is at the same level with the outside mirrors, you don't have to take your eyes off the road to look at the gauges. If you do not like the center gauges because that's not what you used to, wait until you see drive-by-wire systems starting to appear in cars, that will freak you out (I did)!
  • machiavellimachiavelli Member Posts: 260
    I think you'll see more HUD type dashboards as the technology improves and the price comes down. You aren't going to see it on a $15,000 Saturn for a LONG time!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    No, I am not from the land yacht generation -- read my profile -- but I am from the think before I insult generation. I am 36 and have always owned small or mid-sized cars. My L is 190 inches. My Miata is 155 inches. Don't think either look like trucks.

    185 inches is not a land yacht. The trunk in the Ion will be massive compared to the S and larger than the current Civic and Corolla. You ignore totally what I said about the ride and handling of the Delta platform.

    Wrong about the mileage as well. The L weighs in at just under 3,000 pounds. The ION will be lighter and will also come with either the manual, CVT, or a 5 speed automatic. You will definitely see mileage in the high 30s, where the S is now.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Too easy for the SO to see the speedo and nag to slow down. Oh well.
  • bac111bac111 Member Posts: 9
    Why? Three reasons:

    1. That steering wheel. What were they thinking?

    2. That crease across the doors. Great styling, huh?

    3. Center mounted intruments. Give me a break.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Hey Bac111, but you own...lemme guess...a 1988 Ford Taurus????

    The epitome of design...yeah right!
  • bac111bac111 Member Posts: 9
    But Teo, if you compare the '88 Taurus to the other cars on the road in '88, then the Taurus was a design masterpiece.

    Look man, do this: buy your 2003 ION with its center mounted gauges, Sta-Puft marshmellow man steering wheel and after thought door crease.

    Then look at the 2005 ION. The gauges will be in front of the dirver. The steering wheel will look normal and the door crease will be gone.

    Your 2003 ION will really stand out.
  • gm_litogationgm_litogation Member Posts: 168
    I can't believe people hate this car, I think it's awesome especially if it keeps the S' series pricing.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    nwng : I agree, some people don't like things a little different but I think once most people drove an ION around for a little while they would be used to it.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    If Saturn feels there is a good reason for it other than it costing less that a traditional dash, why not put it in all their cars regardless of price? Owners spend a lot more time seeing the interior of their car vs the exterior, so for Saturn's sake lets hope lots of people like the centred style vs the traditional (next Cavalier?).
  • mateyomateyo Member Posts: 22
    Sedan: Horrendous. No symmetry at all. Renault vel Satis lite?

    Coupe: I'm lovin' it. Different, funky. Modern take on the Tucker.

    Both: I'm OK with the interior. I like 'em when they're a little bit unusual.
  • 300silverbulit300silverbulit Member Posts: 60
    From what I see I like the ION. I don't have a problem with the guages.

    The guages/dash in the S series aren't great that's for sure. At least the guages and stereo are high on the dash so you can see them in the ION.

    A big trunk like our L's is a plus for a compact sedan.

    A usable back seat for someone over 7 years old is a plus too.

    The ION is long overdue and it will have polymer side panels!

    The CVT trans and ecotec engine should make for a smooth powertrain. I canit wait to drive it.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    so you just KNEW i would 'hate' it.

    Truth be told, I'm just happy GM updated one of its car lines.

    The Ion I don't hate. I just think GM sqaundered a huge opportunity. The first new GM small car in 'ions'...oops...eons, and the thing is, its got a really good ecotec motor...new chassis...and BAM, LET'S HIT EM WITH THE GIMMICKY FREAKY STYLING AND CHEAP PLASTIC AGAIN!

    So its troubling that despite the mechanical goodness this car may have and the now usable interior space....that they would lay such an egg eith the styling. i.e. make it seem so much along the lines of the other GM cars and so unappealing to import intenders who are flocking to Jettas, Proteges, Civics and yes Hyundais in droves.

    Wasn't Saturn supposed to attract import buyers? Certainly not repel them.

    Saturn cannot lure import intenders and even domestic fans for that matter with the absurd interior and the disjointed exterior.

    So its just troubling. Because the promise of the mechanicals is there. I myself can vouch for the goodness of the ecotec motor. I test drove the Lseries about 5 times and was commited to buying an L100 Special edition primarily because it seemed such a nice motor for a four, and especially in comparison to the pushrod motors in other GM products.

    I bought a Diamante, but only because I found a great deal.

    So the promise of this nice powertrain, in a larger package than the S, with up to date styling (supposedly)......the L series will get 35 mpg with the ecotec I can only imagine what the lighter Ion will get for gas mileage...and good pickup too.

    And then to be dropped the big styling bomb...someones here may say 'they like it' and that's fine. But do you really? Would you just be a 'follower' and buy the Ion, because its a new Saturn product, even if it you know the styling is only merely acceptable at best. Especially when the classy Jetta and roomy and nice to be in Corolla and Civics can be had for the same money? I mean, the competition is too fierce to think people will choose this car when factoring in style. This Ion is immediately off many buyers lists because the styling is just a freakshow.

    I mean, seriously! Some young college grad female buyer...looking for that first new car? No way would she look at this thing! Even if its got class A mechanicals!

    So the car is not bad, but the wrapper is not at all pretty. That's the source of my huge disappointment. Build me up, then drop the bomb. Typical GM.
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    ... will be seen around Detroit in droves soon ... God save us all! Actually, the exterior is fine. It's the interior that is a plastic museum and tribute to stupid ergonomics/design.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Sorry, I don't think you are thinking too clearly about the engine size. A 2.2 liter engine is NOT capable of high 30s gas mileage (well, maybe at a steady 55) regardless of how much the car weighs. Even the very fuel efficient 1.7 in the Civic gets only 38 with a stick. The 2.3 in the Accord gets 31. The larger the engine, the less the fuel economy (simple physics). The same engine in the L is rated at 33 with a stick. 200 or so less pounds isn't going to change that much, maybe allow it to go up to 34. Lastly, about that Delta platform, I do believe you ignored my comments about the rear suspension. The Delta platform is probably good, but thats not all that gives a car good ride and handling. A semi independent torsion beam, similar to the Maxima, is not known for its smooth ride or excellent handling. It will be competent, but hardly great.
    One last comment about that center gauge. I think one of my main problems with it is the incongruent look to the dash. The dash doesn't fit together in one harmonious piece. It looks slapped together with no regard to aesthetics, with lines going every which way. It doesn't flow smoothly. That is what makes it look so distasteful.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    that ecotec does get exceptional mileage....posters here, dealers, customers all say its gets well above 30 in the Lseries.
  • gm_litogationgm_litogation Member Posts: 168
    Simple physics huh, the smaller the engine the better the gas mileage!!!!!!! Sorry man you couldn't be more incorrect!!!


    There are way too many factors that determine vehicle mileage. Going to tell you right now I rented an L200 and on the way back from a 300 mile highway trek it got 36mpg. Now let me tell you about my car, 3.5 Aurora average mileage 21.5mpg on trips 27.8. That's a 3.5 liter motor, now check this out, I have a friend with a 2000 Camaro SS. His car regularly gets 28mpg on the highway, that's with a 5.7 liter engine. Here's another Impala LS 3.4 liter getting 31 on the highway. Want some more?? Check this out I have another friend with a Daewoo and it's only got a 2.0 liter engine, average mileage 22mpg.....


    You ever wonder why these large displacement engines get such better gas mileage?? The answer is gearing and lots of low end torque. That's typically what will improve your mileage, plus aerodynamics, fuel delivery efficiency, vehicle weight, fuel burn efficiency, exhaust flow, driveline friction, so much more to list....


    Oh one more!!!! Honda S2000 2.0 liter that's rated at 20city 26 highway!!

    Now compare that to a Corvette Z06 with a 5.7 liter engine, the Honda is lighter, has less displacement, it's smaller, has less horsepower, but wait the Vette gets better mileage!!!! I think that proves my point pretty well...


    The funnest thing about that though I suppose is just how much better the Vette is than the S2K..


    http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Engines/Honda/S2000/2002.asp


    Check for yourself!

  • shamgunshamgun Member Posts: 1
    I like the car except for that stupid center mounted speed/odometer cluster. Saturn always manages to make me not want to buy their product even though I want to. It's as if their saying "we know you want to buy our product, but we'll do this to our car so you won't buy it".
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    That was an obnoxious post from gm litigator.

    The S2000 is a different kind of car. It has a certain type of engine, and just because it has 2.0 doesn't mean it's going to be 140hp. It has 220.

    Another GM cheerleader?
  • gm_litogationgm_litogation Member Posts: 168
    What are you trying to say??? By the way the S2000 has 240 horsepower (here in the states anyway). How are the cars not comparable? I went to look at an S2000 at my local Honda dealer, they had a adjusted market value tag that equaled $2500. The total price was $35,000, that's just about $10k cheaper than a Vette Roadster. So yes the Vette is more expensive, but it's still comparable. But like I said who cares I'm only talking about gas mileage and how displacement isn't really a factor....
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I did not say the Delta platform would be a great handler.

    Great handling is reserved for the more expensive platforms such as the 3-series, the sigma, or the Boxter. (or in my case, the Miata, which sells for several thousand more, but is significantly smaller and less practical than the ION will be) The fwd version of the delta platform has been getting good press in Europe. I have also read positive reports about the rwd version that will show up in the Solstice if it is made. Good and reliable are what one should reasonably expect for a car that sells for less than 20k. Otherwise, what is the point of having 35k plus cars?

    But for a commuter sedan, the ION in its upmarket version with the 16 inch wheels and either the 5 speed manual, or, for those of you who must, the 5 speed automatic, looks to be a very good and economical alternative.
  • 300silverbulit300silverbulit Member Posts: 60
    The styling may be debatable but at least it has some style. The Focus is the only other small car with a interesting interior/dash. All the other brands especially the japanese names just copy each other.

    Looking at the ION coupe, it looks like it would be able to carry a larger bulkier item. Than the sedan could because of the suicide passenger side door and the front passenger seat folds forward. making for a nice empty space to fit something in with no B pillar to get in the way like the sedan.

    Price matters to me because the L300 is our main car and I just need a commuter car, and saturn usaully sells the coupe version for $2000 more than the sedan
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    lngtonge18 : Check the rating on the Ecotec on the Cavalier LS for comparable mileage.

    regfootball : You have hated everything Saturn has put out (and been very vocal about it). Why would the ION be any different? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean no one else will either. I think people are capable of deciding for them selves. As for the "plastic" sit inside any other compact car with a similar price and find one that doesn't have lots. They are CHEAP ENTRY LEVEL cars.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Cheap entry level at what price? $15K $20K?
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Prices have not been listed yet. I think a base ION will have to closer to 14k than to 15k, however. Believe the Corolla and the Civic base around 14k. The Focus ZX3 bases less, but the base Focus is not the same car as the other two (and, one hopes, the ION).
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Lord knows the winner of the European and North American cars of the year (cough focus) sure is an easy target to pass ;-)

    I do like the Ion coupe save a few interior details. I'd like to see the sedan in a different color, as I think the two tone effect that looks good is washed out by the silver of the sedan photos I've seen.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Thanks for your supposed knowledge of fuel economy, but you are comparing apples to oranges. I know more then just engine size affects mileage. However, 4 cylinders rev higher on the highway then those V-6 and V-8 engines you mentioned, especially the OHV pushrod engines. Those engines are geared real high and rev real low and thus get pretty good mileage for their large size on the highway (the city is a different story). This is not the case with economy car four bangers. I was comparing the Ecotec to other normal (not performance) four banger economy car engines. With that fact in mind, larger displacement does lower mileage, especially in the city (otherwise, all cars would have bigger engines). I assumed people would realize that the same manual tranny will most likely be used between the L and Ion, and thus have the same gear ratios and similar mileage. With Dindak's suggestion of checking out the Chevy webpage, I rest my case. The Cavalier with the same engine is rated at 25/33. In other words, dead average fuel economy for the class, and a big drop from the old S series.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The ecotec in the Cavalier is not the same used in the L. It has been modified to produce increased hp.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    go to the auto show.

    sit in a Jetta

    sit in a Corolla or Prizm (i used to have a Prizm thank you it was pretty nice, good assembly quality in typical Toyota fashion)

    sit in a Focus

    sit in a Civic

    sit in a Protege (the nicest interior in small cars next to the Jetta)

    sit in a Lancer

    sit in a anything else non GM in the 15k range.

    Now, then go sit in a Saturn S or a Saturn Vue and tell me whether the Saturn is nice or not.

    In pics the Ion looks as typical per other Saturn products in interior design and quality.

    You freak me out. Jeez, I'm no Saturn hater I just want them to get their **** together. I damn near bought an L series. Why would I buy a car I hate??????? WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN WHAT U SAY???

    I am saying this....GM / Saturn desperately needed a hit with this new small car. It was gonna be the first all new platform here for a long time. It had development time and money behind it for once. A new well regarded engine. The ingredients are in place.....

    wham! STAPUF steering wheel, center gauges, oddball looks, typical fisher price plastic.

    For me its disappointment, not hate. My dad bought exclusively GM as long as I could remember. My first 5 vehicles were GM. I want them to succeed. Every other small car builder can seem to nail all the elements and not produce something so...so.....oddball, incomplete, unfinished.

    It's like Shamgun said....

    "Saturn always manages to make me not want to buy their product even though I want to. It's as if their saying "we know you want to buy our product, but we'll do this to our car so you won't buy it"."
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Oh, come on!! You are really pulling at straws here. There is a 3 horsepower difference between the Cavalier and the L, hardly a modification worth mentioning. That's not going to adversely affect fuel economy. Admit it, the Ion will not be as fuel efficient as the S.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    the S was very fuel efficient....but the ecotec is a very fuel efficent powerplant as well....many folks get 35mpg+ even w/ automatics in the L series.

    Amazingly enough, GM has a few powerplants that get exceptional mileage for their power and size.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Milage is not a simple formula - several factors go into it. A big one is aerodynamics - another biggie is gearing and or course weight.

    The L series gets the same gas milage with auto (best in class btw) or stick because the stick has different gearing. You would of course normally expect to get better milage with a stick and most makes/models do. Both ar rated 33 on the highway.

    Considering that the ION weighs slightly less - uses electronic power steering - its not hard to imagine that it could get 36-37 mpg in stick form or CVT. One biggie will be the coeficient of drag which I haven't seen yet and the of course the gearing.

    So - nothing personal to you Ingtonge - but if you rest your case I'm glad you're not actually a lawyer.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    I personally don't find the looks of the sedan drop dead gorgeous - but for sure its a good looking vehicle. Compared to the S series its a quantum leap foward.

    As for the interior - to this day I don't get it. The Civic - Corolla - Focus - Saturn S - all basically look the same to me. Central mounted instruments are a little wierd but I'll reserve final judgment till I sit in one and drive it.

    Don't get me started on the 2.2 ECOTEC. This is one heck of an engine - smooth - quiet - and torque rich. 90% of its maximum power is developed by 2200 RPM. The L has plenty of power so in a lighter vehicle with the 3 tranny options (5 speed - CVT - or 5 speed auto) it should be a good performer.

    Suspension and ride - we'll have to wait and see. At this point I'm clueless. What I do know is this: the DELTA platform is much better than the current frame and the ION spacefram is made from High Stregth Steel (compared to S series mild stregth steel) Sure with the rear using a torsion beam its never going to be the top of the heap for the twisties but 99.9% of the people I sell to every day could care less about this.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    One finally point on the mileage subject (we really do have to wait for the EPA ratings). The L 100 and 200 come with the Saab manual or a 4 speed automatic. I have the manual and like it. I am able to get 33+ highway (and not I do not drive at 55 mph).

    My one problem with the manual is that at speeds upward of 65, the rpms creep over 3k. I believe this is because the Saab manual is not precisely geared to the ecotec. I like the manual otherwise, and respect that the L is meant to be more on the performance side than the ION will be.

    I do not believe the ION will use the Saab manual. The automatics offered will be a new 5 speed automatic and the CVT. Finally, the ION will have electric power steering, which saves on fuel as well. IMO, provided the new transmissions allow the ecotec to cruise 65mph at around 2400 rpms, the mileage will be in the S range.
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