Saturn ION

regfootball · October 2003

8.4 0-60 still seems slow. Having driven the Ion I would assume it was around 7.9. I had a 99 Prizm that C/D clocked at 8.3 and the Ion was a bit faster I thought.

They DID NOT care for the handling.

vuefor2 · October 2003

Regfootball ::: Wait for the Red Line Ions, that's where you will see some good performance numbers!

SDA ::: I believe you are right. Our salesman said they were coming soon last time I saw him. I think I would stick with a 5-speed auto though, proven tech!

regfootball · October 2003

no doubt GM will overprice the REDLINES though.

dindak · October 2003

The added cost of the Red Line Vue is not much, I think in the $1000-1300 range.

regfootball · October 2003

yeah, but they'll stick it to you on the Ion.

Of course the SRT-4 is overpriced too. So is the SVT Contour.

vocus · October 2003

If you think the SRT-4 is overpriced, you should see the $1000-3000 dealer markups that people pay on them! I used to work for a car finance company, seen it in black and white. I mean come on, it's just a Neon with a turbo in it...

dindak · October 2003

Maybe you are right, who knows.

uga91 · October 2003

Taking the recently repaired ION on a little road trip this weekend. Going up to Nashville, TN (about 250 miles from here) to watch the Georgia vs Vanderbilt football game. I'm expecting a good trip out of the ION. I'll let you all know if something out of the ordinary happens.

regfootball · October 2003

A Neon turbo that puts 230hp to the TIRES and has some very much upgraded suspension, handling and braking components to back it up.

My bet is the Ion redline comes in at a minimum of 20 grand and more likely 22 grand, as that's where the Neon SRT and SVT pretty much are already.

If they allow incentives on the redline Ion it would be worth looking at.

dindak · October 2003

"Saturn's new ION Red Line quad coupe raced into the record book at the Bonneville Salt Flats on Oct. 17, 2003, establishing a new mark in the G/Blown Fuel Altered class at 212.684 mph. The record-setting Saturn, which is based on the new factory-built ION Red Line sport compact and powered by a turbocharged 2.0-liter Ecotec four-cylinder engine, eclipsed the previous 183.086 mph record set in 2001 by a Honda Civic by nearly 30 mph".

see http://www.media.gm.com for more details.

uga91 · October 2003

The ION ran perfectly--just like I knew it would.

dwintergreen · October 2003

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE THIS PROBLEM?

I recently purchased a Saturn Ion 1, and it has been back at the dealership for service five times already for the same problem!

In the morning, or whenever the car is cold, I hear a rather loud noise from the front suspension, especially when driving over a bump in the pavement or on an uneven road surface. The noise can be described as crunching or scraping. When the car warms up, the noise disappears, only to return again the next morning or when the car is cold.

The service department is baffled. They tried replacing the strut trees, but the noise did not go away. After keeping my car for five days, they concluded that the bushing bracket to the front stabilizer bar needed to be adjusted or tightened. Since this only lessened the noise, but did not eliminate it, the dealer then replaced the bushing bracket. Now the noise is as loud as ever, and the dealer is consulting with the engineering division in Tennessee. The dealer also told me that another customer has reported the exact same problem.

I'm now told that Saturn may have to develop a new kind of bushing bracket to make the noise go away!

Does anyone else have this problem with their 2003 or 2004 Ion? If so, what did your dealer do to resolve it?

Needless to say, this is a very distressing problem to have with a new car. When I drive it in the morning, it sounds like it is about to fall apart!

uga91 · October 2003

No, sorry. I have not had the first strange noise out of any part of my ION. Hope they get it fixed for you in a hurry!

vocus · October 2003

After the long trip this past weekend, how do you feel about the seat comfort in the ION?

vuefor2 · October 2003

We have been on 2 longer trips with our Ion and I have no problem with the seats. I think the seats in our Vue are better in general but it's an economy car not an Acura or a Lexus.

I saw a new Ion ad yesterday with some clowns touting the Ion's 140 hp power and handling. I thought it was quite good. Anyone else see it?

davethewave1 · October 2003

I haven't had any strange noises with my 2003 ION2.

davethewave1 · October 2003

I find my seat are comfortable but I don't like the way the center console applies pressure to my shin/calf. I wish the center console extended a little further towards the seat.

uga91 · October 2003

The seats were fine. We (my brother and I) drove up to Nashville that morning, went to the game, then drove home. About 500 miles in one day. I never once complained about being uncomfortable, so I guess the seats did just fine.

As for the center console, try moving your right heel over to the right a little. Whenever my leg rubs against the console causing some discomfort, I just straighten my leg by shifting my heel to the right about an inch and the discomfort goes away immediately.

vocus · October 2003

That's what kept me from looking further at the ION when I was car shopping this past summer. I am 6'3 with a 33 inseam, and the center console pressed right into my chin no matter how I sat.

pat · October 2003

chin?

(probably not quite what you meant to type!!!)

uga91 · October 2003

I hope you mean "shin" and not "chin." FWIW, you have been beating "the center console is too wide and I don't fit in the car" dead horse for a while now. I am 6'2" and I fit fine. When my right leg rubs against the center console, I straighten up my leg by shifting my right heel over to the right about an inch. The pressure and discomfort ceases immediately. It's fine with me that you didn't buy an ION, but your reason is, IMO, flawed. Just move your leg a little to fix the problem. I say this not really to you, vocus, but to any one out there who may read your complaint and think they will have the same problem as you.

dunworth · October 2003

dindak. Thanks for the post on the ION land speed record.

Here are a couple of articles on the ION in the Canadian press.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031021-3.htm
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031020-2.htm

I am surprised it generated so little discussion here. I mean holy @#%$&!, 212 mph. That's 30 faster than the old record holder, a Honda Civic.

I like the ION coupe better than the sedan, which is exactly opposite of my feelings towards the appearance of the Civic. I do not like the appearance of the current Civic coupe at all, and do not understand why all the kids like them so much. A black ION Red Line would do me just fine, if I was in the marekt for a coupe. Any idea how it will compare pricewise to the two other category killers, the Tiburon GTV6 and RSX.

dindak · October 2003

Ya.. the coupe is the best looking IMO also. Since it's a "quad coupe" I would think it's also a kid friendly coupe which is key for me.

vocus · October 2003

Sorry, I did mean shin.

I have a problem with my hip from when I was born that it's totally uncomfortable for me to sit right my right leg straight out for some reason. It kinda leans to the right a little bit all the time when I sit down. The console wouldn't allow that.

I understand what you meant. The car did have adequate space, but not for the position I have to sit in.

uga91 · October 2003

The Quad Coupe should be kid friendly. Keep in mind, however, that it is a 4 seater car. In between the two seats in the back is a console which does not allow for 5 passenger seating. That fact makes the Quad Coupe ruled out for us (as we have 3 kids).

uga91 · October 2003

Sorry to hear about your hip. But, that is what I was talking about. Your condition does not allow you to sit with your leg completely straight, so that is why it is uncomfortable for you--not just because the design is bad.

vocus · October 2003

No, the design isn't bad. But I still think the console shouldn't intrude as far as it does. I have the same problem in my friend's Echo sedan.

dunworth · October 2003

The ION must be selling a lot better up here in Canada than in the US. Then again we like small high quality cars.

This article says stock of the unsold IONs is more than double the desirable level. The Vue however continues to do well.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm22_20031022.htm

dindak · October 2003

Small car sales are much bigger here than in the U.S. which might be part of the reason. I see 2-3 IONs a day now, they are quite common.

uga91 · October 2003

I know this has nothing to do with ION; but, I have read on this board some folks wanting to wait and see the new 3 before making a decision. Well, Mazda released pricing of the 3 this week and it seems high to me. Actually, it seems to be priced like Civic, which is to say that you can get a mid sized sedan for the same money instead. The most basic Mazda 3i starts at $13,680, but that does not include even A/C. The basic 3 with air is $14,530. With air and auto it is $15,430. And, to get ABS, you also have to get all the power features and alloy wheels, pushing your total to $17,420--and you still have the smaller engine. The Mazda 3s upgrades to the 2.3l engine and gains more standard features, but it starts at $16,405. With auto, it goes to $17,305. With auto and ABS, you get to $18,105 in a hurry. Now, it may be a great car; but even a Civic EX with auto is less than $18,105. Heck, you can buy an Accord LX (which has ABS now standard) with auto for that much. Of course, there are tons of cars comparably equipped--including ION--for less money. Shoot, I hate to say it, but the best deal today just may be the 2004 Nissan Sentra 2.5S. After rebates, Edmunds says you can pick one up for about $14,600. For that price, you get the 165 hp 2.5l engine found in the Altima, ABS, air, CD, and automatic transmission. Anyway, I don't know how many units of the 3 Mazda plans on selling, but the price seems a little prohibitive to me right now. I guess we'll see what they actually sell for.

uga91 · October 2003

In case you were wondering, a 2003 (I guess 2004 figures are not updated yet) ION 2 sedan with auto, power everything, CD and ABS goes for $14,500 after the current $2000 rebate. Even without rebate, it's $16,500--or considerably less expensive than the new Mazda 3.

vuefor2 · October 2003

I generally think Mazdas are pretty good cars, but our local dealer is so bad that I would never buy one. Sales people are old school high pressure types and the service area looks a bit shady.

You can never go wrong with Saturn service and our dealer's facility is brand spanking new so that combined with good sales and vehicles may just keep us in the fold for a long time now.

dunworth · October 2003

Mazda makes attractive, solid cars with high build quality. However, its dealer service and poor resale hurt the company. Price packaging is not as good as Civic/Corolla and poor fuel economy with no offset in performance is also an issue. They are good cars but so are other entrants in this field.

I think if Mazda could boost the fuel econ to match Corolla/Civic and improve customer service closer to Saturn on this car, it would sell much better. Like the excellent Mazda6, I think the Mazda3 will sell OK but not great.

The ION is much quieter and more powerful than the outgoing Mazda model. I have not driven the new Mazda.

regfootball · October 2003

the mazda3 appears to be the new gold standard for compact class cars. I was reviewing the specs today and the dimensions are quite big. It is a little bit bigger than the Focus and not too much smaller than the new malibu.

The sedan trunk of the 3 is not as big as the Ion. Otherwise, if one is comparison shopping the big pull(s) for spending a little more for the Mazda vs. the Ion are

bigger and more powerful motor available
promises superior handling and performance
much nicer interior
really attractive styling
lots of premium options available
tight build quality that Japanese built cars usually have
longer warranty
better color choices

no doubt it will outclass the Civic. The ion is in reality a different car so you'll either like the Ion or you won't. I think the 3 will have extremely broad appeal as the pricing is actually pretty good. Loaded up cavs and Ions can sticker for close to 20k and Jettas come in over 20 sometimes. The pricing of the new 3 is pretty fair, after you realize that all cars are too spendy to begin with.

bigdaddycoats · October 2003

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6547&sid=18- 0&n=157

uga91 · October 2003

You may be right; but, for 18 grand, I'll buy a new Accord LX any day of the week over a Mazda 3, Civic, Corolla, or even ION. For me, it makes no sense to pay that much money for a car that small. That being said, we'll see what they actually sell for. The Mazda 6 starts under 15 grand in Mazda ads in the Atlanta paper. Even the brand new Nissan Quest is now being advertised as being $4000 under MSRP when the new Sienna is hard to find. It's all about what the market wants. I have a feeling that the compact market will continue to be dominated by the Civic for its quality (whether it's real or perceived) and resale value and by the Focus for its deep discounting and overall perception in the market place as being a good car even though they seem to be plagued with quality issues. Look at the Corolla. I used to see them everywhere--you could not get away from them. Then a couple of years ago they got bigger and fancier and a lot more expensive. I never see new Corollas on the road. Local dealers advertise them under 13 grand, but for that price you only get air and CD and most folks want them equipped better for that--and then the price rises quickly. If you want stripped, you buy a Spectra, IMO. I have a feeling that the new 3 will be deeply discounted if you can wait a couple of months because after the initial buzz by Mazda diehards wears off they will be left with a market place full of folks who would rather have a Civic for that price. I think Saturn found this out the hard way with the ION. Saturn built a big and useful car with all the goodies most people want, but, in the end, as soon as the price tag goes over $16k, they begin to look at Civics. I guess we'll know for sure about a year from now when the sales figures tell the tale.

uga91 · October 2003

Thanks for the article. Unfortunately, I've read it a hundred times. Every review of the ION goes the same way. It makes me wonder if the reviewers every test the car or just make their review with pieces of other reviews. They are all "The ION is an improvement, but we want more. We want it to be quieter, we want it to be built with tighter specifications, we want..." It's like I said above, in this market, critics and the marketplace in general wants Civics. I hate to say it, but it seems to be the truth. Civic can do no wrong and all other cars pale in comparison.

vuefor2 · October 2003

Civic is nothing special but reviewers always give it high marks. I would pick 3 or 4 cars before I bought the new Civic, especially considering the price and lack of discounts.

dindak · October 2003

Mazda will be discounting the new car big time, especially with those lofty prices.

regfootball · October 2003

lofty? I configured a 3 with ABS/Lthr/MR, 160hp engine and it was justa little over 18, and this Mazda has 54 inches of hip and shoulder room. Its track is as wide as a Malibu and it is as tall and has as much head room. The car is a deluxe car for the compact driver. Some can get NAV and HID if they want.

Several times I have seen Cavaliers, Sunfires, and Ions north of 19 grand, and that's for a lesser car.

Initially there will be a buzz on the 3. But the pricing for the 3 is competitive and won't deter anyone from getting it if its an excellent car. The interior alone is worth a price upgrade. Its like a mini Audi. Its probably got more room than an A4. If it drives like an A4, its a bonafide bargain.

Yes the mazda6 can be had around 15 grand, which I love, but thedumb thing about that is if you are in a northern climate, you need ABS and that's tied to a package. That requirement makes it more expensive to the point where it makes better sense to spend another bit and go v6.

Let's see how long it takes Mazda to discount. I agree let the stupid idiots pay list and wait for the discounts. I have no problem going into the Mazda dealer and making an offer for invoice +200 to one of the really hot but convincing salesgals. Just because the car is new doesn't mean 'I' am gonna pay list for it.

In the sedans comparo board there should be a topic to compare in general all compact sedans. It would be a good way to discuss Ion3 pricing vs. Mazda3s pricing or Ion2 vs. Mazda3i pricing for example.

alpha01 · October 2003

Your comments on "seeing" the Corolla dont really reflect reality- Corolla is seriously outselling Civic and selling at near record levels for the nameplates 30 year US history. If you dont believe me, I can dig up some stats for you... And the 2003+ Corolla isnt nearly as expensive as you make it out to be, usually coming in under comparably equipped Civics, for example. And, as a result of its strong sales and strength as a market entry, the Corolla isnt seeing the incentives that Toyota even uses to sell the Camry (the 04 is already available with 500 cash back- which still pales in comparison to the domestics)

~alpha
PS- can someone post a link to the Press Release for Mazda 3 pricing/options?

Thank you.

regfootball · October 2003

I think the Corolla is near the top 5 and I know it is outselling Cavalier and Focus. Civic may still be selling better.

alpha01 · October 2003

From autosite.com

Toyota Corolla calendar YTD total(through Sept.): 262,403

Honda Civic YTD total: 240,331

Thats a significant difference. And yes, the argument can be made that the Corolla sales include Matrix (Civic offers no comparable model), but Civic sales include Hybrid and Coupe models.

Saturn ION: 77,904
~alpha

pat · October 2003

>> In the sedans comparo board there should be a topic to compare in general all compact sedans.

Feel free to fire one up! :-)

regfootball · October 2003

regfootball "Compacts-CivicCorollaSentraJettaFocusM3IonNeonCavalierImprezaAer- ioElantra" Oct 25, 2003 12:06am

Ion sales not real brisk.......what are Focus and Cav sales?

dindak · October 2003

Not surprised, the Corolla is a better car IMO. ION sales were slow off the mark but have picked up quite a bit as of late.

dunworth · October 2003

ION stocks are at 140 day in the US versus the desireable level of 60. They are selling better but not where Saturn would like.

FWIW, the Civic is far more engaging to drive than the Corolla (I have one of each) but the Corolla is more solidly built, quieter, more powerful and softer riding. The Civic handles better, has a better driving position, is roomier and has the best steering wheel in the business (no pot pies here).

The Civic compares well with the ION for space while the Corolla compares well with the ION for its softer, quiet ride and slightly vague steering.

uga91 · October 2003

You know what...you're right! It's funny, over the weekend, I noticed tons of Corollas on the road. I guess I've just never taken the time to notice them before. I did see a lot on the road, so I was wrong about the lack of Corollas. Also, as for sales volume--Toyota must have stepped up production as I did not think Toyota had the capacity to outsell Civic. I remember when the new Corolla came out and there was a big pi**ing contest between Civic and Corolla fans here in TH. Even the Corolla folks admitted that Hondas would outsell the Corolla due to lack of production capacity. I guess Toyota took care of that. Either that, or Civic sales are down.

uga91 · October 2003

You are right. You can get an ION to sticker north of 19 grand, but I don't know if it will be a lesser car. To get an ION3 above $19k, you have to get leather and sunroof and ABS/Traction Control--just about everything. But, that still does not change the fact that if I was looking at an $18,000 compact car, I would buy an Accord LX for $17,800 or a Camry LE for $17,400. Probably the Accord for the ABS. Also, I don't think the car comes to dealers until January; so, let's refrain from calling the Mazda 3 "A4 like" until we've actually seen one in person.

uga91 · October 2003

Because the 3 is not out yet; but, these 2 cars actually seem pretty close--with advantages to each. A 2004 Mazda 3s with ABS, leather and sunroof is $18,685 MSRP. An ION 3 with ABS, leather and sunroof is $17,850 MSRP. So, sticker wise, the Saturn is less expensive. Mazda will discount more, but Saturn will offer rebates as well. The interiors are actually almost the same size--with the Mazda getting the slight advantage. The 3 has an interior volume of 95.3 cubic feet vs 93 cubic feet for the ION. The leg room, head room and shoulder room of the 2 are almost all within an inch or so of each other--but the Mazda does have about 4.5 more inches of hip room--and that is important if you need to carry 3 folks in the back. If the Protege is any indication, I'm sure the 3 will be much more fun to drive. Of course, the ION does come with the world famous customer service. I'm sure you will be okay either way as each has their advantages and disadvantages. Of course, these 2 cars are right in the middle of Civic territory, so you may not see a whole heck of a lot of cars equipped like these.

Saturn ION

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