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I forgot about that one from Mitsu!
I believe it also had a wierd name as well!
A 2002 with the 7 year/ 100,000 mile powertrain warranty might be a better buy than a less expensive 2001.
No need to say more...
If that is your intended application, that is fine for you. My Ody is kept in very tidy, clean, spotless condition like the other 4 cars in my family.
I have seen some cars in parking lots in the condition you described. You would swear that there are some rats and roaches that are equally at home in there!!
In fact I have seen a car with an open roll of toilet paper slightly unravelled as if ready for use.
Typically, I would target 1/2 price or less when new for a 2 year vehicle with less than 30K miles for most domestic vehicles.
Actually I have a small roll of paper towel stashed in my van, in case there is a hurling contest.
As far as the dirt goes, a good steam cleaner can take care of almost anything.
I cannot imagine people being stupid enough to compare trade-in value at 2 years with MSRP....instead of using real world numbers of actual selling price when new vs trade-in value 2 years later.
Since DC offers big incentives and rebates (made possible by selling more than 3 times the volume of any other minivan), the actual depreciation of a GC SXT is no more than the depreciation of an Ody EX or Sienna LE when all have a similar MSRP when new.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, many/most publications I've read that provide projected resale values DO seem to rely on MSRP as the starting point, rather than some sort of average or typical purchase price. I suppose it is easier just to use MSRP. It does make the resale value calculations less subjective, but it also makes them less useful and less realistic.
Thank you
Next test drove a new 2005 Odyssey EX. Impressed with power but it did not seem as peppy as the Sienna...which was a big surprise. The New 2005 Ody EX also was no quieter than my 2002 T&C LX...except on acceleration. I did not drive where I could test the Ody on curves. I greatly missed the Ody lack of overhead console with compass/outside temp and trip computer.
Verdict: Sienna and Odyssey are more lively with the 5 speed AT than my T&C 4 speed with less powerful 3.3L V6. The 3.3L V6 is "more roar than go" after 45 MPH is reached. The transmission also has the whine that I did not notice in either the Sienna or Odyssey.
Since I am not an agressive driver, the extra performance has never been missed as much as I would miss the complete overhead console with compass/outside temp and trip computer (Ody EX) OR the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger (Sienna LE).
Hard for me to spend $27,206 discounted price of Ody EX with MSRP $28,510 when the Sienna LE is $24,900 discounted price from MSRP $27,289. The DC dealers never have given me the discounted price other than MSRP less employee discount and $2,000 rebate or $23,147 for MSRP $27,725. :confuse:
Besides some of the things I listed before as standard, and what usually comes standard on all vans, I won't list. This is the rest, all standard on this van.
Four wheel disc anti lock brakes
Traction Control
Electric dual slidding doors,
Three Zone A/C
Power rear quarter vent windows
Remote keyless entry with engine Immobilizer
Leather wrapped steering wheel with radio controls
Eight way power seat on drivers side
Lockable storage bin under passenger's side seat
Power, heated, fold away, outside mirrors,
Overhead computer and universal garage door opener
AM/FM radio, with CD and cassette and six speakers.
Illuminated vanity mirrors
Fog Lamps
16 inch Aluminum wheels
Driver's knee blocker air bag
Cruise control
Roof Rack
Stow-n-Go seats
Battery saver
Automatic door locks
Turn signal lights that warn people coming from behind that someone is exiting side doors, like they have on buses. Dodge tells you what doors are being opened.
7 year or 70,000 mile powertrain warranty.
I take it all have power windows, door locks, automatic tranny, tilt steering wheel & etc.
I bought it back last Dec. for $23, 750.50 with zero percent financing.
I need to test drive a 2005 GC SXT with 3.8L V6 to see if it has noticeably more performance than my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L. When I test drove a new 2005 GC SXT in February 2004, it did not seem to have any more pep than my 02 T&C.
With aggressive driving, DC minivans seem to have "more roar than go" while the Sienna really pushed me back into the seat and the Ody, though much more peppy than my 02 T&C, did NOT seem to have the get up and go of the Sienna. :confuse:
about 3500 lbs. years 2000 and up
Those vehicles that are sold to car rentals and fleets are the ones that will show the steepest depreciation as they flood the market when used causing an oversupply and hence a lower demand situation. Great examples are Taurus, DGC, etc.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_minivans/index.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_minivans/index.html
I can't wait until another automobile authoritative source like Reader's Digest, Good Housekeeping, and Better Homes and Gardens rate the Odyssey as their first choice.
I can't wait until another automobile authoritative source like Reader's Digest, Good Housekeeping, and Better Homes and Gardens rate the Odyssey as their first choice."
How about the Hanna Report as the authority?
Try it and let us know how the public accepts it. Maybe your local seniors club would support you.
Check the Kia Sedona topic and search for 'towing' and you should find plenty of discussion.
about 3500 lbs. years 2000 and up
Don't know about the older ones, but the new Dodge/Chryslers can tow up to 3,800lbs. That's more than Honda or Toyota. I would think the older ones should too as they have the same engine, tranny and body style. Although if you are considering a Dodge/Chrysler, don't buy one older than 2001or 2002.
There has been very few complaints on the Chrysler/Dodge vans from 2002-2005. In long term quality, JD Powers said G.M has "the top model in eight categories, the most of any manufacture" The Chevy Malibu and Buick Century beat out Honda Accord, Toyota Camery and Toyota Avalon. Ford had two brands, ranking eight and twelth. Chrysler was the only brand to beat the industry average and even beat out parent Mercedes-Benz. So lets hear it for domestics once again.
I can't wait until another automobile authoritative source like Reader's Digest, Good Housekeeping, and Better Homes and Gardens rate the Odyssey as their first choice."
How about the as the authority?
Try it and let us know how the public accepts it. Maybe your local seniors club would support you.
Keep in mind that MT also picked many stunning COYs....the GM X bodies, The Renault Alliance etc..... With all the Oddy recalls and problems, it appears that MT is keeping their "successful" record going!!!
FYI Guys - I know some of these guys in these automotive rags and Hans is as much of an authority as some of them!! They're not gods!!!!
Will definitely buy the Odyssey when Art Bell reports that the Aliens have given the Odyssey the "Best Minivan of the Universe" award.
Thats right hans...I think the Odyssey is in line for a Nobel Peace Prize. It's awe inspiring beauty... and sporty, spirited ride is starting to spawn world peace.
What's the latest on the minivan selection process? With your test drives...I guess you're saving the best for last...meaning the Mazda MPV. Once you test drive a ZOOM ZOOM you'll forget all about: the Ody, dual zone climate control, overhead console,bathing etc) The one good piece of advice I got from someone when trying to choose a minivan...was to go with your heart. If it's only 2k or 3k then go with you like best. If it's more than 3k...well, thats a tough one. Good luck though.
As for towing, if you are at all worried about older Dodge trannies or the newer "problems" Honda is supposedly having, then choosing either to routinely tow something over 2000lbs is asking for trouble and you should avoid them. If you don't care or are getting something else anyway, be sure to at least have a transmission cooler installed. Just about any minivan you buy is going to be a heavy FWD vehicle. This already stresses the transmission in the form of heat in a confined area. Towing another ton around on a routine basis will surely kill your transmission in short order without an aux transmission cooler. If it already comes with one, that's a bonus.
It all depends on your income level(i.e. cars are introduced/made for household income brackets as we all know), and whether the extra dough you pay may force you to eat hot dogs and baked beans daily for the life of your new, more expensive purchase.
Anyway, what I really want to know is how the Sienna AWD will perform in the snow. I live in rural Southern Michigan with harsh winters and lots of snow. Will I be happy with a minivan, or should I look instead at an SUV or 4WD?
My FWD Ford F-150 and Blazer AWD seem to be un-stoppable in ordinary snow depths while any of my FWD vehicles have been no better than rear wheel drive.
Sienna retain resale value very well and have great performance with the current engine. Sure, the new Avalon engine may be desireable for very aggressive drivers, but my T&C LX with much less power than the Sienna has always had more than enough power for my needs.
Even with the added weight of AWD and power needed to drive all 4 wheels, I think the current Sienna should satisfy 99.9 % of all drivers.
In snow or ice only conditions, I would pick FWD over RWD any day. With the superior PULL(FWD) versus PUSH(RWD) forces, I have been able to run circles around much more powerful RWD cars with a a lower powered FWD car. It is the physics and engineering of the process.
And I enjoyed doing it in the process!! It was fun looking at the faces of the drivers of these RWD cars then.
Really?? Where??? As far as I know I'm the only MPV'er that frequents this board. Unless there are MPV owners (maybe mac?) disguising themselves off as diehard Ody owners. He does like to write ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM whenever given the chance.
But, seriously. We have new members pop in here all the time asking for comparisons. As members and host alike know...I am an unbiased minivan poster. I have pointed out the pros and cons of all minivans on the market...including my beloved MPV. So, yeah....you're likely to hear the same ole stuff sometimes.
Sorry you are tired of it...but there are other boards. Or, you may scroll.
Reguarding macs flaming...thats something for the hosts to deal with.
Charlotte
Why? Am I just a more skilled driver? or, when going up a hill does the weight transfer off the front wheels of FWD and shift to rear wheels? OR, do tires on each vehicle have more effect than FWD or RWD?
ALMOST every performance vehicle is Rear Wheel Drive ...and that is because rear wheel drive is better for performance. Front wheel drive is better to get more space in the same length vehicle in addition to slightly better fuel economy.
Sadly, there are no viable rear wheel drive minivans now in production.
Sadly, GM never improved on the Astro after introducing it 21 years ago. DC has made many changes and improvement as has Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. Ford and GM changes have been miniscule after dropping rear wheel drive Aerostar and Astro/Safari. The Ford and GM FWD minivans are sick jokes. :sick:
edited: Man...did I say "I" enough for you guys...yikes!
DC also makes minivans for many income levels and do not have ABS, curtain airbags and traction control on lower levels to keep the price as low as possible.
I probably get better gas mileage in my T&C LX with 3.3L than I would in a Sienna or Odyssey that has alot more power. If I had that power, it would probably be used which would cause lower gas mileage. :confuse:
What? Passive protection items are there because they provide an extra margin of safety for ANY driver in an emergency or normal driving situation. Arguing that a minivan is NOT a performance vehicle and doesn't need that protection is silly, since you would then have drivers behind the wheel who would actually benefit the most from this protection. VSA, traction control, and ABS are useful for everyone but are of particular importance for drivers who are not skilled enough to maintain control in a dangerous or emergency situation.
I would agree more that the lack of safety features on the lower end models has to do with pricing and the fact that many vans are sold as rentals or to other fleets (govt, corporate, etc).
Another thing, how exactly do you have a FWD F-150? Im assuming thats a typo. 4WD perhaps? There is no comparing FWD to RWD in the snow. All other things being equal (TCS, VSA, etc) FWD can get you through the snow much better than RWD.
RWD is used on performance cars because it launches faster when you HAVE traction. Not to mention the lack of (compared to FWD) torque steer and simplicity compared (again) to FWD systems. In the snow, weight transfer is all well and good, but there still is not enough weight over the tires to do much compared to the relative ease of pulling a car throught the snow with the front two wheels. I don't know about you, but many streets that were totally impossible to get up in the snow with my RWD cars (Chevy Caprice, various work vans) are easily dealth with in FWD cars (Buick Regal, Accord, DCX and Honda minivans).