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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Zoom-Zoom-Zoom ;) The MPV is very sporty in appearance and owners of the MPV have been very satisfied. The size is JUST right for many people. Why buy a larger vehicle that may not fit in the garage and would be more difficult to park?
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    Mostly right, hans. I usually try to minimize vehicle ownership costs, subject to safety requirements and a minimum amount of agility. While I think it is the best looking MV now, I drove a friend's MPV quite a bit this year and don't think it has a lot of zoom-zoom factor - but it is minivan. The ability to pick up an MPV on the cheap new or used, coupled with decent crash scores (if I can find one with side airbags) is the deciding factor. The size IS right, and the warranty is better than the competition. My concerns are Mazda's (and dealerships) customer service and attitude, and a fuel economy worse than what can be expected from the compact size.

    Second choice: 2002 Villager (steine's special) with ABS. One advertised for 9k just sold from under me... keeps me out of CCBA :shades:
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Agree with that Hans. The 2006 CR Buying Guide was very confusing in reguards to vehicles recommended and reliability. They seemed to contradict their findings throughout. The 2004 Honda Odyssey(pg 204) and the 2004 Dodge Grand Caravan V-6(pg200)have EXACTLY the same reliabilty scores in the 14 categories rated. Yet, the Ody gets a better than average reliability score and the DGC gets only an average overall reliability score.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    CR tends to have a severe bias towards Honda/Toyota and against the Big 3.
  • mjpintomjpinto Member Posts: 3
    Hi All,

    My name is Michelle and I'm new here. We are researching minivans in hopes of buying one soon. I have a question: Does anyone know which minivan makes/models have the fold flat seats? I know some have both rows that fold flat and some only the back row. We are looking to buy a used minivan - so any minivans that have those seats from the year 2000 and up. We rented a Dodge 2005 Grand Caravan the other day and loved how the bucket seats folded right into the floor!

    Thanks for your help and information! :)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I'm big on reliability... being a frugal consumer. :blush: So, if I were buying today there are few minivans I would not put on my list.As I believe most minivans in todays market are fairly reliable. At the top of my list would be Mazda ;) , Toyota, Honda, DCX and the GM minis. At this time I would not put the Ford Freestar,the 2004-2005 Nissan Quest or Kia Sedona on my list.The 2006 models of Sedona and Quest I would look at if reliability continues to improve.

    But, yeah...CR shows little love beyond Honda and Toyota in the minivan category,
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Nearly all minivans except GM's four versions have fold into the floor third row seats. GM's second and third rows fold to form a fairly flat cargo area, but do not fold into pockets in the floor, so they compromise cargo capacity. Also, their SUV wannabe front end is kind of ugly, in my opinion.

    The long wheel base versions from Dodge and Chrysler brands all have fold into the floor second and third row seats, except on some stripped low end models. Their short wheel base versions do not fold flat, second or third rows either

    Odyssey and Sienna and Ford Freestar have fold into the floor third row only. Second rows must be removed to have a complete flat load floor up to the front seats, though some of them can be tipped and collapsed up against the front row, I believe.

    Nissan's minivan has the second row seats that "semi fold". They drop down part way but not completely flush with the floor, so you do not get a flat cargo surface. Also, you better be aware that Nissan's minivan dash arrangement is bizarre.

    I don't know much about Kia's however.
  • mjpintomjpinto Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the info Badgerfan! The models you are referring to, are these 2005 models - or can this information be applied to models in the past few years?

    Thanks :D
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    For the Dodge/Chrysler vans, it applies to the 2005 models and newer. The 2005's were introduced early in calendar year 2004, if I recall.

    Current Honda Odyssey has had stowable third row in both the current generation introduced in 2005 model year and the previous generation, which was introduced in 1999, I believe. For Sienna, I do not know if it's previous generation had a stowable third row, but the current generation was introduced in 2004 and basically unchanged since then.

    GM's current Minivans were introduced in 2005 model year. Previous generations did not have even the semi-stowable seats they have now in either second or third row.

    Ford Freestar has been on the market about two years and all Fresstars have had the stowable third row. The previous generation Ford was the Windstar, which did not have stowable seats.

    Currently the Dodge/Chrysler twins have the edge in easily stowable seats for both second and third rows. If you see a little "Stow and Go" decal right below the driver's side window near the rear post, it will have the second and third row stow into the floor feature.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    For flat folding third row seats, here's somewhat of a guide. These minivans have it:
    1995-2006 Honda Odyssey
    1999(?)-2006 Mazda MPV
    2004-2006 Toyota Sienna
    2004-2006 Nissan Quest (fold flat second row too)
    2004-2006 Ford Freestar/Mercury Monterey
    2005-2006 Dodge Grand Caravan (not sure if the 04's had it, but I think they had an early 05 run starting in Feb 04)

    The current GM vans (2005-present) have fold flat seats, but those are several inches above the floor, so you lose some space. You can take those seats out, but its not a "genuine" fold flat into the floor seat like the ones listed above.

    Good luck. The minivan segment actually doesn't have too many entrants. You've got the Big 3 Americans, (GM, Ford, Chrysler) the Big 3 Japanese (Honda, Toyota, Nissan), Kia, and Mazda.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "1999(?)-2006...MPV"

    The MPV took a one year hiatus in 1999 and returned in 2000 with a total redesign. Much like the Nissan Quest did in 2003.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The Nissan Quest second row, strictly speaking does not "fold flat" to the floor, they stick up to some extent. If you are loading a sheet of plywood, it would not rest flat in the Quest.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Nice concise list.

    I would only add that the current '05-'06 Honda Odyssey and '04-'06 Toyota Sienna have a 60/40 SPLIT 3rd row rather than a 1 piece seat (Not sure about the DCM vans). This not only makes for more options in the 3rd row but means the seats are lighter and easier to raise/lower than non-split seats.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Chrysler vans have the split folding third row in the Stow N Go package.

    The split seat sure aids in flexibility.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks; I wasn't sure if they did or not.

    That's interesting. So if you DON'T have the Stow N Go package, does the 3rd row not split (one piece) or not fold flat into the floor?
  • mjpintomjpinto Member Posts: 3
    Wow - thanks for all of the info. You guys are all really "in the know" about this stuff. It makes my minivan hunt much easier :)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Without Stow'N Go, the 3rd row does NOT fold into the floor. You can buy the GC SE with Stow 'N Go 3rd row and traditional bench 2nd row seat with or without built in child seats. The GC SE with 2nd row bench seat has the 2 large storage compartments in the floor in front of the 2nd row. You can also get a GC SE with 2nd row bucket seats that fold into the floor.
    All Stow 'N Go have 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row and ALL are the longer models.
    The Caravan SE has a bench 2nd row and a one piece 3rd row seat while the Caravan SXT has 2nd row bucket seats with a one piece 3rd row bench standard and optional 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row bench seat.
    The SWB T&C has 2nd row bench and one piece 3rd row bench seat standard with 2nd row bucket seats optional or another option with bucket seat 2nd row and 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row bench seat. NONE of the shorter DC minivans have a fold into the floor 3rd row seating.
    DC minivans offer a wide variety of seating options. ;)
  • deepandeepan Member Posts: 342
    is the 3rd row on DCX split 50/50 or 60/40
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    ALL Stow 'N Go 3rd row are 60/40 split while the fold and tumble 3rd row in Caravan and SWB T&C are 50/50 split. ;)
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Stow N Go Models are 60/40.
    Regular models (Non Stow N Go) are 50/50 or 100/0.
  • andifongandifong Member Posts: 1
    We're looking to replace our 2000 Grand Caravan and we're so lost in the world of minivans. We haven't been very impressed with the GC but we don't hate it either. Would be nice to have an 8-seater but it's not a must. We have 3 kids (2 in carseats). Would love an Odessey but can't afford it.
    Also, a power sliding door is a must!!
    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Andrea
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Interestingly, I just priced a 2004 Sienna LE 7, Sienna LE 8, Odd LX, Odd EX, and GC SXT to compare resale at 2 years of age for the 5 minivans I am considering vs the actual cost to buy a 2006 from the local dealers (Color White, Miles 20,000...used values from Edmunds) for each:
    Sienna LE 7: Trade.in $ 18,872 Retail $22,807
    Sienna LE 8: Trade-in $ 19,956 Retail $22,918
    Odyssey LX: Trade-in $ 17,413 Retail $19,961
    Odyssey EX: Trade-in $ 19,276 Retail $22,270
    GC SXT:.......Trade-in $14,600 Retail $17,903
    Cost NEW 2006(MSRP and Actual):
    Sienna LE 7: $26,949 $25,698
    Sienna LE 8: $27,049 $25,793
    Odyssey LX: $25,895 $25,210
    Odyssey EX: $28,945 $28,206
    GC SXT:.......$27,830 $24,400
    Based on these numbers, a 2 year old would cost this much less for each:
    Sienna LE 7: $2,891
    Sienna LE 8: $2,875
    Odyssey LX: $5,249
    Odyssey EX: $5,936
    GC SXT:.......$6,497

    IF you are buying a vehicle just 2 years old, is it worth only $2,875 to get a 2 year old Sienna LE 8 with 20,000 miles on it and much of the factory warranty gone? :confuse:
    On the other hand, you would save $ 6,497 buying a 2 year old GC SXT but still much of the factory warranty would be lost.
    The Odyssey savings would be greater than if you got a Sienna but less than buying a 2 year old Grand Caravan. I got my used 2002 T&C LX from a friend so I paid slightly over wholesale and knew the van's history. I would NEVER buy a used Sienna or Odyssey since buying the new one is more cost efficient. ;) I would NEVER buy a used GC from a dealer as too many have been abused as rental or fleet vehicles. :sick:
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    OMG! I pd $26 for my EX, and that is only $1600 more than the SXT? According to your numbers, IF I trade after 2 yrs, I will lost $3k more if i had bought the GC?

    That's like an extra disney vacation for my whole family!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    May I suggest the Toyota Sienna LE 8 Passenger model? Seems like it has everything you'd like- 8 passenger seating, one power sliding door, and if you get one of the lesser equipped option packages, it would cost less than the Odyssey EX.

    Somne dealerships may still have leftover 2005 models on their lots.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    ""OMG! I pd $26 for my EX, and that is only $1600 more than the SXT? According to your numbers, IF I trade after 2 yrs, I will lost $3k more if i had bought the GC?

    That's like an extra disney vacation for my whole family! "

    Since I got my 2004 T&C at $9000 under MSRP, including a $6K rebate that was the same on the GC at the time, I'm guessing the GC discount would be more than was listed originally by Hans. More than covering a Disney trip
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Used minivan pricing was for current trade-in and retail for 2004 models as listed by Edmunds.

    Pricing for NEW 2006 minivans is MSRP and actual prices quoted by local dealers. The MSRP for 2006 minivans is NOT the same as that for the 2004 minivans when they were new. :shades: A 2004 GC SXT had a higher suggested MSRP than the 2006 model has.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    A few months ago someone posted in here about how a manufacturer should build a minivan for people who show dogs. Or, who just like to take their dogs joy riding.
    Well, lady... it appears hades has frozen over. Honda has come out with a concept minivan called the Honda WOW.
    It was unveiled at the recent Tokyo Motor show. The WOW caters to cannines and comes with a built-in crate that folds into the floor. It also has a special seat belt designed for dogs, and even a spot for Spot's bowl.

    The article I read stated it is doubtful the WOW will ever make it past the conception model.
    But, that Honda would even spend money developing something like this shows there must be some interest. Some countries eat their dogs...others chauffeur them around in non bare bones models. :blush:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I got this E-Mail from Chrysler today. Sounds like one heck of a deal if they still give you the big discounts.

    http://www.chrysler.com/freedom/?pid=eDirect&adid=CPFTC%2DQ4%5FIncentive&rid=%20
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I believe you cannot combine that with Chrysler Supplier Pricing, but that you can take all other incentives and unlike Chrysler Supplier Pricing, you can bargain hard and get a good deal.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Much better than the 2006 warranty of 5 years 60,000 mile. ;)
    Honda was smart to increase the warranty but DaimlerChrysler dropped the 7 year 70,000 mile warranty of the 2005 minivans to 3 year 36,000 mile...but recently was smart enough to increase the warranty to the 5 year 60,000 miles that the Sienna has had for years and the Odyssey now has.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    From what I can see, you only get the $2500 rebate for a purchase or $3500 for a lease, on top of the new gas/warranty/maintainance. Guess it's not too bad of a deal?

    Did notice for 2006 you can have a sunroof and curtain airbags together. You couldn't for 2005s.
  • jillnycjillnyc Member Posts: 1
    I'm considering getting either a sienna or odyssey and I live in new york city. Most of my driving will be in city conditions or on our local highways. I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on whether I should get AWD or I'm fine with stability control. I generally like to be on the safer side even though I know it will be an extra cost. Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks,

    JillNYC
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think you should be fine with FWD and a good set of snow tires depending on conditions.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Well, actually it was one mom. The hostess of a tv show called, The Yummy Mummy. :cry:

    While saying the Sedona felt "sluggish"...she did say it was "fun to drive". Her overall review of the 06 Sedona was positive.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Here is the second mom if you missed it.

    "As fate would have it, my friend Helga is in the market for a minivan, so I invited her for a spin. Her initial reaction mirrored mine. A little too slow, too heavy, and too big. Because of the engine size and the weight of the car, we were concerned with the vehicle being a gas guzzler. "

    Spirited, energetic drivers would demand much more...
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Well, that was only one yummy mummies opinion... and her friends. :cry: But, I didn't read that the yummy mummy clocked any 0-60 times? :confuse:

    At 244hp you may find the 2006 Sedona more spirited and energetic than the anemic 230hp(revised) that the Ody has? ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    I will wait for you in your Sedona(when you buy it) at the off-ramp with my Ody to blow your socks off in the corners and straight line. Just tell me the Sedona color and your license plate number.

    You would have the pleasure of smelling hot air as the Ody leaves you disappearing in its rear view mirror.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    has 244 horsepower by the way.

    Still waiting on Nav and parking sonars. Until then, the Sienna Limited tops my list.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Agree that the 2006 Sienna Limited is the most luxurious minivan. ;) The Odyssey Touring is 2nd place and Town & Country Limited does not appear very luxurious by comparison although the T&C has the most attractive exterior styling. ;)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    LOL. That does sound like fun, but no...sadly I am not in the market for another minivan.

    Kia needs to cook that Sedona a little longer before it would be ready to suit my needs. But, I think Honda and the others are starting to hear its footsteps. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Might come in handy for those in market. Latest from Oakland Tech News (local auto newspaper)in Detroit.

    New 2006 DCX Caravan SE - $11,995/$19,900 MSRP

    New 2006 DCX Caravan SXT (power seat, trip computer, 3.3L V6, 7"DVD - $16,373/$25,335 MSRP

    New 2006 DCX Grand Caravan SXT Special Edition (heated leather, 8"DVD, moonroof) - $21,589/$31,365

    New 2006 Chrysler T&C (V6, Air, Tilt, Cruise, Keyless) - $12,777/$21,735 MSRP

    The dealer is Milsch (www.milschdodge.com) just 3 miles north of DCX's tech center in Auburn Hills.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Please explain: Is the first number the invoice or selling price?
    The first price looks too low to be the actual selling price unless there is a HUGE Dealer Doc Fee. :confuse:
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Something stinks to high heaven about those prices.

    The 2006 DCX Caravan SE with ZERO options has a MSRP of $19095 and an invoice price of $18056 (including dest.). There are currently $3500 in incentives/rebates (according to Edmunds) which brings the invoice down to $14556. And it is advertised at $11995??? The others are equally ridiculous; all at thousands UNDER invoice even after taking into account the rebates.

    Something doesn't pass the smell test here.....
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    If the Odyssey Touring didn't have those stinkin' PAX tires I'd consider it.

    Until then, I think I like the Sienna :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    The lowest price is supposedly the SELLING price per Milosch Dodge. www.miloschdodge.com
  • stockey1stockey1 Member Posts: 22
    Looks like the 2006 Sedona will be a big winner,MOMS WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IF THE SEDONA HAD A LAWNMORE ENGINE OR A 600HP V10 LOL.
  • stockey1stockey1 Member Posts: 22
    SORRY FORGOT THE LINK TO THE VERY POSITIVE TEST DRIVE.
    http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Kia/review/2006-kia-sedona-ex-road-test/1563/
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Nice review but I wonder how many errors are contained in the review?
    Odd engine power was INCORRECT. The 2006 Odd has 244 HP and 240 Lb-Ft torque. Is the Sedona engine power also the rating under the older, inflated method? :confuse:
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