Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

cpsdarren · February 2006

"I prefer the 3rd row seat folding mechanism of the Sienna and Odyssey to the GC mainly because the seat bottom of the GC has a much greater slope to it. The GC 3rd row seats fold just as easily up or down as the Sienna or Odyssey. I also prefer the 60% portion of the 3rd row being on the driver's side in the GC and Sienna to the Ody having the 40 % on the driver's side."

Out of curiousity, how does the 60/40 split affect you? The only minor thing I've found so far is that having the 40 side behind the driver allows me to keep one child seat in the third row without blocking visibility much since it is right behind me. That allows the 60 section to be folded for cargo. Still not as flexible as the Sienna is for cargo, but it worked out nicely in that regard at least.

As a side note, I've had a difficult time getting various child seats into the third row of newer DC vans. The slope of the seat cushion combined with the seatbelt design can make it very time consuming to get a decent fit compared to many other minivans. The owners are usually the first to lament about the problems when they come into events for carseat checkups.

thegraduate · February 2006

As far as the best solution being with the Dodge...

I'd have to disagree...the family carrying all of this stuff has to clean out the bins every time they want to carry something involving the seats being folded up...In the Honda or Toyota, all they have to do is unlatch the seat and move it, b/c they didn't have anything stored there. They could just put it in the lazy susan.

I'd call it a wash.

You might not; it's called opinion, people, and we all have them. No sense in knocking you for yours, because it is the best solution for YOU. Right? Many buyers likely feel the way you do about it!

marine2 · February 2006

Most of the time I only need the one second row seat folded. As you can see in the picture I posted in the other thread about seats. I got the big bassinet in the side door, already set up with room to spare and still had the other bin to haul my stuff in. As for taking it out if I had to, that's a snap. most is already laying on that furniture pad so all I have to do is pick up the pad and it's empty. About 90% of what I need to haul, I can get it in the side door with just one seat folded. I think only twice have I had to have them all folded.

hansienna · February 2006

DC must have changed before 1999 as my daughter has to keep her 99 GC cast wheels clean as does my son with his 02 GC Sport, my 02 T&C LX. A friend has a 2000 GC LE with cast wheels that are corroded so badly they are very ugly.
....all with original equipment disc pads.

marine2 · February 2006

DC must have changed before 1999 as my daughter has to keep her 99 GC cast wheels clean as does my son with his 02 GC Sport, my 02 T&C LX. A friend has a 2000 GC LE with cast wheels that are corroded so badly they are very ugly.
....all with original equipment disc pads.

So far, as you can see, mine has no corrosion on them and I do get a lot of brake dust on them. It's not like I keep them washed all the time, I don't. But the dry Arizona heat and little rain and no snow might help there.

mrblonde49 · February 2006

The chrome finish on my T&C 2004 Platimum wheels are the hardest to keep clean that I have ever had - lots of grooves to get into, and much harder to keep cleen that normal painted aluminum wheels.

marine2 · February 2006

Chrysler's wheels do have more groves to clean. The ones on the Dodge are not painted aluminum, unless I'm not sure what you mean by that. They look like plain aluminum wheels. They look pretty sharp. Don't think I'd want chrome ones

masterpaul1 · February 2006

We have aluminum rims and there is some brake dust that develops after a few weeks. I use whitewall cleaner and a soft brush to clean our rims. (It works great).

hansienna · February 2006

Thanks for tip. I had just been using a sponge with detergent and warm water. The 02 T&C LX wheel covers are slightly easier to clean than the 06 Sienna LE wheel covers but the Sienna wheel covers do not accumulate disc pad dust as fast on the front as does the T&C. (Sienna has drum brakes on the rear which don't have the problem that disc pads create).

dennisctc · February 2006

It's not as nice inside, but it sure looks nice outside.

Darn!!!!! I thought I was the only person with a White DGC SXT!!!!!!!

dennisctc · February 2006

In the Honda or Toyota, all they have to do is unlatch the seat and move it, then what? clean out the garage to find a place to stow them? carry them into the house or basement? The items in my Bins are much more easliy removed and stored....i.e..leashes for the dogs, can of de-icer etc... DCX owners still have much greater flexibility and options than any other minivan owners...hardly a wash. Hardly an "opinion" also. An opinion is "Honda's white, is nicer than DCX's white". Seating options and flexibility is much more tangible and can be demonstrated easily in many different scenarios like "out for a Sunday drive and run across a yard sale, finding the perfect table blah blah blah". We could play games like "your storage bin is crammed with junk", and I could assume the same of every Honda owner's garage....but in the end, I can convert my Minivan to a completely flat floor hauler much faster than any other minivan on the market today. That is a fact, not opinion.

rorr · February 2006

"...but in the end, I can convert my Minivan to a completely flat floor hauler much faster than any other minivan on the market today. That is a fact, not opinion."

Yes. I don't think anyone is arguing that it is easier or more convenient to stow the seats in a Sienna or Odyssey than it is in a DCX van.

I think that all we are attempting to do is to point out some aspects of the sto'n'go system which may not be readily apparent to someone comparing these vehicles.

Since you are simply bringing to the table facts rather than opinion, let me add to the list:

1. With the sto'n'go system, the bins must be empty to stow the seats. With the Ody, the in-floor storage bin doesn't need to be emptied. This is a fact, not opinion.

2. Not everyone has to clean out the garage to stow a seat. This is a fact, not opinion.

3. With sto'n'go, the 2nd row seats are fixed in place laterally. If one wants to aid access to the 3rd row (for whatever reason), one can't reposition a 2nd row seat to make a wider entry aisle to the rear. This is a fact, not opinion.

4. With the systems in the Ody, Sienna and many others, the RH 2nd row seat can be repositioned to the center creating a small mid row bench seat and a wide access aisle to the rear. This is a fact, not opinion.

IMO, it is helpful to recognize that there are tradeoffs in most design concepts, including sto'n'go. Rather than (endlessly) debate the merits of the design (and ignore the downside) why not simply let potential owners make up their own mind? Let them honestly assess how frequently THEY will be out on Sunday drives (without the kids), happen upon yard sales, and spontaneously purchase large furniture.

Personally (and I'm speaking here only of my own situation), I've yet to be in that situation. I honestly can't EVER remember, in my 43 years, spontaneously buying something so large that I would have needed the capacity to stow the seats on the spot in order to get it home. Have I needed the ability to haul large items since we purchased our Odyssey? Yes. So I took out a seat (or two if necessary) and put it in the garage (and I didn't have to clean out the garage to do so).

Have I desired the ability to place the mid row seats together? Yes, I have. We place our 2 children in the mid row (in their booster seats); when grandma/grandpa ride with us, it is MUCH easier for someone to access the 3rd row if the mid row seats are pushed together.

In the end, I'll offer this:

IMO, the DCX vans offer more EASE in converting from people hauling to cargo handling; particularly if the 2nd row area is needed.

IMO, other vans offer more VERSATILITY in seating, particularly if 3rd row acess is desired.

hansienna · February 2006

I find access to the 3rd row VERY easy in DC minivans, 7 passenger Ody or 7 passenger Sienna. I just go between the bucket seats of the 2nd row. For less agile people, either bucket seat can be tilted forward for access to 3rd row...which is the ONLY way to enter 3rd row in the 8 passenger Sienna or the recent Ody with the middle seat in 2nd row.
If an 8th person rides in the minivan frequently, the Sienna has true 8 passenger seating but the Ody padded armrest between 2nd row bucket seats can also be used for a seat...although it is NOT a real seat even though it does have a good shoulder/lap belt.

cpsdarren · February 2006

"If an 8th person rides in the minivan frequently, the Sienna has true 8 passenger seating but the Ody padded armrest between 2nd row bucket seats can also be used for a seat...although it is NOT a real seat even though it does have a good shoulder/lap belt."

The 8-passenger Sienna is a much better option if you usually have 8 or even 7 passengers. The extra width of the third row and the nearly full-size seat in the center of the second row offer more hiproom for adults. Plus, both have LATCH for carseats and the tether anchor doesn't block the cargo space behind the third row.

The PlusOne in the Odyssey is a safe, functional seat. It is very narrow, however. Because of the width, it is not going to be very comfortable on long trip for bigger adults. It also lacks a tether anchor, so it's not a good choice for front-facing child seats with an internal harness. On the other hand, it's fine for teens, older kids or those in a narrow booster. It is possible to install a carseat there, but the narrow width and seatbelt configuration will make installation difficult or impossible on many models.

The advantage is that the Odyssey 8th seat is much easier to remove and it can even be stored in the van. For example, I keep the PlusOne stored in the Lazy Susan area most of the time so we have it when we need an extra passenger. Since we usually don't have any more than 6 people, we have the center aisle and can easily switch to an outside aisle if adults need to access the third row easier. Different arrangements work better for different families...

mrblonde49 · February 2006

"Chrysler's wheels do have more groves to clean. The ones on the Dodge are not painted aluminum, unless I'm not sure what you mean by that. They look like plain aluminum wheels. They look pretty sharp. Don't think I'd want chrome ones "

The wheels on your car are painted a gray paint over aluminum wheels. Mine are chromed aluminum wheels. The painted are much easier to clean

dennisctc · February 2006

2. Not everyone has to clean out the garage to stow a seat. This is a fact, not opinion.

1) Not every DCX owner has to clean out their bins, but they may have to rearrange some small items they carry in the bins. This would be preferable to actually lifting, removing and storing heavy seats.

2) I have very easy access to 3rd row seat with a simple pull of a single strap which flips the entire seat forward eliminating the need to slide my two seats together.

3) Honda owners still need to have a place to put their seats if they ever want to remove them. They may not need to "clean their garages", but they need space to store them.

4) The Ody "in floor storage" is where the spare tire use to be in last generation Ody and cant' really be compared to DCX's storage in terms of capacity or ease of use/access.

5) DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure seating in the industry. It doesn't offer seating for 8 but the percentage of buyers wanting 8 passenger seating was soo small that GM/DCX dropped the option years ago.

In one year of ownership, I've used my Stow N Go for spur of the moment needs about 3 times, with no need to plan these ahead of time, or running home and removing the seats.

marine2 · February 2006

If I ever thought I'd need an eight passenger minivan, I wouldn't have bought the Dodge GC. I would imagine most of the people having the Honda or Toyota with eight passenger seating, has never or hardly ever used it. Most families now days only have 2-3 kids.

But I have found many uses using stow-n-go. Mostly stowing one seat.My brother went over to my sister's house today and said what she got was an electric wheel chair. He thinks we may have to stow two seats instead of one to get it in the side door. I'll see as soon as we can find ramps.

rorr · February 2006

"1) Not every DCX owner has to clean out their bins"

I didn't say they did. I was simply pointing out that the bins can be used for storage of items, or storage of seats. But not both.

"2) I have very easy access to 3rd row seat with a simple pull of a single strap which flips the entire seat forward eliminating the need to slide my two seats together."

I'll run through a very typical scenario: load up the kids and get them buckled into their seats in the 2nd row. Drive to grandparents house to pick them up for dinner. With the Ody, the kids stay in their seats and grandma/grandpa go down the side aisle to the rear (or my wife goes to the rear with grandma and grandpa slides in next to the driver). With the DGC, 1 child has to get unbuckled/get out and then the seat tilted forward (or were you going to do that with the seat occupied?), the back seat is accessed, and then the child is rebuckled. Yep, way more convenient my way.

"3) Honda owners still need to have a place to put their seats if they ever want to remove them."

Yes. I never stated otherwise.

"4) The Ody "in floor storage" is where the spare tire use to be in last generation Ody and cant' really be compared to DCX's storage in terms of capacity or ease of use/access."

Correct. The Ody floor storage space is smaller. However (unlike the DGC) it can be locked for SECURE storage. Sorry, forgot to mention this fact earlier.

"5) DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure seating in the industry."

Incorrect. The Ody offers the 8th seat and mid row seats which can be placed together if desired. The ability to stow the mid-row seats in the Dodge ISN'T ANOTHER SEATING OPTION (unless you intend to put a lawn chair in it's place). Just as removing the mid-row seats in the Ody isn't another seating option. Your statement would be more correct to say the DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure cargo carrying ability in the industry. The only real seating option that I see the DGC having over the Ody is the ability to rotate the 3rd row seats for tailgate style seating. Is that what you had in mind?

"In one year of ownership, I've used my Stow N Go for spur of the moment needs about 3 times..."

I'll take your word for it. Personally, I've never HAD to haul anything on the spur of the moment which would have REQUIRED the ENTIRE minivan to haul. And it's a good thing too since I would have had to leave the kids sitting on the curb with my seats.....

sebring95 · February 2006

We don't normally need to seat 8, that has nothing to do with wanting the extra seating in the 2nd row. We take the grandkids, both in carseats, and it's nice for my wife to sit in between them for feeding, entertainment, etc. Fairly common to have at least two children in car/boosters.

The only reason I bought a minivan was to get this feature. It wasn't as convenient in our Tahoe, so we switched. And it's still easy to access the 3rd row if we're trasporting others because the outside seats slide forward to allow easy access to the 3rd row.

marine2 · February 2006

Well, if I knew I was going to pick up grandma and grandpa in my GC, I would have put the kids in the third row seats first. If mom is worried about them, she could sit in one of the second or third row seats till they get to grandma's house couldn't you? Like yousay, plan ahead.

Dodge does have a lockable bin under the passenger seat.

cpsdarren · February 2006

"I would imagine most of the people having the Honda or Toyota with eight passenger seating, has never or hardly ever used it. Most families now days only have 2-3 kids."

Sure, but there are also grandparents, siblings, friends, soccer teams, Daisy scout troops and any number of other people that families with school age children shuttle around. Even if you use it only a couple times a month, it still comes in very handy.

The same logic could be used about how often many families would take advantage of stow 'n go to carry cargo. The difference is that you could still carry the same cargo in the Odyssey or Sienna with the additional effort of removing seats and storing them. You couldn't carry the extra passenger in the DC van in any case.

Yet again, it all depends to how often you carry extra passengers vs. large cargo. What is cargo friendly to someone who carries cargo frequently isn't necessarily as family friendly for a family with school age children.

What I would like is a Stow 'n Go arrangement of 3 similarly sized seats in the second row. That would make it both cargo and family friendly. You'd get an extra seating position and a number of extra seating and cargo arrangements, too. Hopefully, someone will have that in 5-7 years if I buy another minivan.

marine2 · February 2006

A guy on another site sent me this and said it was a 2005-or 2006. I guess it has to be because of the chrome ram on the steering wheel. But I never saw any colors on the lot like that when I bought mine.

http://images2.auction123.com/sizequalitypredef/e45ebda5-1de4-456b-b8c7-97c95d42- 349b/2D4GP44L55R142284/15.jpg?webimage001l

marine2 · February 2006

What I would like is a Stow 'n Go arrangement of 3 similarly sized seats in the second row. That would make it both cargo and family friendly. You'd get an extra seating position and a number of extra seating and cargo arrangements, too. Hopefully, someone will have that in 5-7 years if I buy another minivan.

That would be a nice idea.

rorr · February 2006

"Well, if I knew I was going to pick up grandma and grandpa in my GC, I would have put the kids in the third row seats first....Like yousay, plan ahead."

Hmmmm....

So, with the DGC one should plan ahead for people carrying but not cargo hauling. With the Ody one should plan ahead for cargo hauling but not people carrying?

I think that's a fair summation between the two....

marine2 · February 2006

Yep. Only with mine, I only have a little bit of moving things around if more come to ride than I planned. With yours, you have to go home and take the seats out and come back if you need the extra room to haul.

rorr · February 2006

"With yours, you have to go home and take the seats out and come back if you need the extra room to haul."

I'd have to go home anyway.....remember the kids? If I can't leave my seats by the curb, I certainly can't leave the kids.

You remember kids, right? You know, those smaller human-shaped objects which help to comprise the family?

Please try to remember: a large portion of the minivan-owning public have children. Most of the time when the van is driven (at least in our household), there are kids along for the ride. Assuming I DID have a need to unexpectedly haul something requiring seat removal, sto'n'go wouldn't help that much since I'VE STILL GOT TO CARRY THE KIDS.

And NO, I am NOT loading cargo in the middle of the van and putting kids in the 3rd row. If that cargo shifts or breaks loose, one could easily be looking at crushed legs, torsos or faces. With kids in the 2nd row and cargo in the rear (preferable in the deep storage well) I've got a seat between the cargo and the kids.

marine2 · February 2006

And NO, I am NOT loading cargo in the middle of the van and putting kids in the 3rd row. If that cargo shifts or breaks loose, one could easily be looking at crushed legs, torsos or faces. With kids in the 2nd row and cargo in the rear (preferable in the deep storage well) I've got a seat between the cargo and the kids.

You put the big stuff in the back, how do you tie it down? I know if I drop the rear seat in my van there is no way to secure it. I can secure it in the middle row with the anchors that hold the seat to the floor. If you had to slam on your breaks and your kids were in front of the load, where is the load going to go.? If my grandkids were in the rear seat, they would be behind the load and the chances the load won't shift anyway because I have it anchored to the floor.

esto · February 2006

Am I correct in my observation that a GC SE cannot be had with traction control, and that none of the GC variants can be had with stability control? (That's the impression I get from the Dodge website - 2006 models).

marine2 · February 2006

I think that is right. None of the Dodge/Chrysler vans have stability control. I don't think the base model Dodge has traction control.

If you want both, or stability control, don't buy a Chrysler/Dodge.

rorr · February 2006

"If you had to slam on your breaks and your kids were in front of the load, where is the load going to go.?"

The load would shift forward and hit the back of the seats. The seat would be between the load and the child. If you get rear-ended and your load shifts, where is the load going to go? Your grandkids would have no protection. Zero.

marine2 · February 2006

The load would shift forward and hit the back of the seats. The seat would be between the load and the child. If you get rear-ended and your load shifts, where is the load going to go? Your grandkids would have no protection. Zero.

Gee, what is that steel there for? What if your kids or their friends are setting back there and you get rear ended? Zero protection for them too? On the safest van on the market?I'l trust the steel body before a seat back that only has two clips holding it.

I'm out of here.

travler · February 2006

I've heard tht the DC stow-and-go seats are hard,flimsy and uncomfortable compared to others. Any feed back on this?

dennisctc · February 2006

I've heard tht the DC stow-and-go seats are hard,flimsy and uncomfortable compared to others. Any feed back on this?

You should visit your local DCX dealer and make your decision. I've had many friends in mine for roadtrips to Chicago, Toronto and back to PA.....never a complaint and my father thought they were firm and confortable like german auto seats (he's owned my VWs).

dennisctc · February 2006

With the Ody, the kids stay in their seats and grandma/grandpa go down the side aisle to the rear (or my wife goes to the rear with grandma and grandpa slides in next to the driver). Bet grandma and grandpa just loves this!!!

"3) Honda owners still need to have a place to put their seats if they ever want to remove them."

Yes. I never stated otherwise.

I was simply pointing this out like you point out.

Correct. The Ody floor storage space is smaller. However (unlike the DGC) it can be locked for SECURE storage. Sorry, forgot to mention this fact earlier.

My underseat storage locks and my center console (optional) also locks....I have security options also.

"5) DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure seating in the industry."

Let's try this: DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure minivan interior in the industry? Is this correct enough? or should we quibble more?

jchan2 · February 2006

I'd like to state that I have only removed my second row seats for cargo carrying purposes ONCE in the van's 4 year, 87,000 mile lifetime, so while the second row of the Stow N Go system may be very useful once in a while (I stress the phrase "in a while") it is not something that would seal the deal on a DCX van for me.

And that one time I took out my seats, I was buying unfinished natural wood furniture which had to be stained prior to being used and those ended up in my garage anyways, so what's the difference in having another 2 seats sitting in the garage surrounded by a bunch of desks?

To be honest, those second row seats are outrageously heavy, bulky, and hard to remove, but once they're out the space the occupy in my garage is minimal. I can still park two cars in there. (this is a three car garage, and that third car spot is used to park my Toro lawn mower, my wheelbarrow, my garden tools, and four bikes, while one car is stuck outside)

cpsdarren · February 2006

"Gee, what is that steel there for? What if your kids or their friends are setting back there and you get rear ended? Zero protection for them too? On the safest van on the market?I'l trust the steel body before a seat back that only has two clips holding it."

It's conservation of momentum. It doesn't matter how crashworthy the steel body is. Improperly restrained objects or passengers inside will accelerate or decelerate very rapidly in a crash, regardless. When the object finally comes to a sudden stop, there is the potential for serious injury.

A strong barrier or secure tie-down is a very good idea for anything but the lightest cargo, particularly if the cargo is in the passenger area. The back of a full-width seat is usually a reasonable barrier for cargo behind the last row of seating, unless the cargo is somewhat sharp, combined with a very severe frontal crash. Smaller objects contained within the well of the chassis behind a folding third row seat are probably not going to be a danger to passengers at all, unless a very energetic rollover is involved.

artgpo · February 2006

Let's try this: DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure minivan interior in the industry? Is this correct enough? or should we quibble more?

The way I see it, the seats are up or down in the DCX with stow and go. In the Honda they are up, out, down, slid together, 8th seat in, 8th seat out, 8th seat back cushion removed and back folded to make a tray for the second row.

Stow and Go is a terrific innovation for those who use their vans as cargo haulers and not people haulers. If I need a pickup or flatbed I'll go to Home Depot and rent it for a few bucks. That way I'll preserve the lush interior of my Odyssey to impress my passengers and maintain its much better than DCX resale value.

Yes, I made a ridiculous statement (true, but ridiculous) to make a point. You bought DCX because you had to have stow and go. I bought a Honda for quality, durability, safety, performance and great resale value. Who is right? We both are because we bought what we liked, wanted and needed.

thegraduate · February 2006

Let's try this: DCX offers the most flexible and easy to configure minivan interior in the industry? Is this correct enough? or should we quibble more?

Oh, quibble more! It is most entertaining to watch!

marine2 · February 2006

Stow and Go is a terrific innovation for those who use their vans as cargo haulers and not people haulers. If I need a pickup or flatbed I'll go to Home Depot and rent it for a few bucks. That way I'll preserve the lush interior of my Odyssey to impress my passengers and maintain its much better than DCX resale value.

Stow-n-go is good for cargo hauling, but it's also good for people hauling. If I only wanted a cargo hauler, I would have kept my truck.

Yes, you do have a lush interior in your Honda and that is why so many Honda owners say they don't haul cargo. I know they don't want to take a chance of scratching or tearing that beautiful interior. Or even getting it dirty. That is why I have been saying Honda is a good looking people hauler but it's not good for much else, because of how you guys feel about putting stuff in it.

I'm sure it will impress your passengers. It impressed me when I first saw it, when buying our Civic. But I'm a little more down to earth. I'm not out to impress anyone but my wife and myself. Not that I want an ugly van, and I sure don't think my van is ugly at all. As a matter of fact, I think the outside is one of the nicest on the road. But I wanted a van that had all the features the Dodge had and loved the price they gave me. I not only had a people hauler, I had a truck with a heck of a lot more room than my Dodge Dakota CC gave me. I had seats that I didn't have to take out like my brother's van. I feel I got the best of both worlds, with all the niceties on it and a price that can't be beat.

I think I have a van that will be dependable and safe. If I have anything go wrong, I'm covered for seven years and after seven years, no van is going to be worth very much. The Honda is surly not going to be worth $7,000.+ more, to make up for the price difference it would cost to buy it.

I am sure you'll be happy with your Honda. It is beautiful. But I'll be just as happy with my Dodge. Even more so, when I don't have to take the seats out or rent a truck to take a big piece of cargo home. And I'll smile when I use all those goodies Dodge put on my van that I didn't have to pay thousands more to get. We'll both be happy because we bought a minivan that was right for us.

lastwraith · February 2006

"That is why I have been saying Honda is a good looking people hauler but it's not good for much else, because of how you guys feel about putting stuff in it."

I know you like your Dodge and all but what kind of statement is that? So Honda isn't good for hauling cargo because the people who own them don't like to haul cargo?!?
That's akin to saying that Buicks are slow because old people buy them and don't drive fast. Also not really great logic there considering I can just wrap the cargo or put down something to protect the interior if I am really that freakish about appearances. And then I am left with my "lush" interior. Really I don't think either vehicle has a lush interior but whatever (yes, they got the EX-L).

The reality also is not as simple as your final statement about getting all the goodies you wanted for less money. First of all, many of the good packages were not available in some areas. For example, on the north shore of Long Island (rich area and paranoid parents) there were NO DGC offerings available with all the side curtain airbags at the time we shopped. Yes, it is easy to customize what you want for less but the reality is...if it isn't available at time of purchase or within a reasonable amount of time afterward then it doesnt matter what options there are or what they cost. The dealer had been sold out and had no clue when they were going to get more in because very few were made with the options desired. That's not good business. You're supposed to know your markets and provide enough product to satisfy them.

Secondly, sto-n-go is neat but it just isn't that important for everyone. We can argue about this till we are all blue in the face but the simple fact is that some people, like who I was shopping with, don't care about sto-n-go. They want what they want and in this case the Odyssey fit the bill perfectly. It hauls people comfortably (didnt like the Sto-N-Go seats), retains resale value well, and handles very much like a heavy accord (not surprisingly). Fin.

dennisctc · February 2006

The way I see it, the seats are up or down in the DCX with stow and go. In the Honda they are up, out, down, slid together, 8th seat in, 8th seat out, 8th seat back cushion removed and back folded to make a tray for the second row.

I've seen a Honda salesperson demonstration stowing the 8th "seat" into it's storage area - not easy. I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy. I've reintalled seats - not easy. I've slid the seats together on an Ody (2004) - not easy (especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV).

Lush...lol, oh yeah, Odys are like Maybachs or Bentleys, sorry I forgot....I keep thinking they're minivans but for Ody owners they're also BMWs, Mercedes and Maybachs.

You bought DCX because you had to have stow and go. I know this may be hard to comprehend, but I'm fully capable of speaking for myself here, thank you very much!! I purchased my DCX for quality, durability, safety, and performance (ohhh I know, the Ody is an amazing 1.4secs faster to 60 mph!!). It has the most flexible and easy to configure interior of any minivan. It has superior tow capacity, and much lower cost to equip with tow package (including auto air suspension - not available on Ody). It has been extremely trouble free (unlike the 250 posts in less than 2 months for Ody problems 2005+). I actually hit my EPA numbers for my van (sometimes exceed them even!) On top of all that, it was about $10,000 less then equivalent Ody EX (yeah, I'm at the extreme savings end but $5000 is easy to do!). Ohh, and the Stow N Go system is great for people with active lifestyles....like camping, windsurfing, shopping trips to outlet malls etc...

dennisctc · February 2006

I'm sure it will impress your passengers. It impressed me when I first saw it, when buying our Civic. But I'm a little more down to earth. I'm not out to impress anyone but my wife and myself.

Darn again!!!! Here I am thinking that all my friends were going to be impressed by my Minivan!!!! They're not???Isn't that the reason most people buy a Minvan???

Thanks for ruining my week Marine2!!!!

artgpo · February 2006

You dennisctc, jumped on me when I spoke about my 1994 DGC and the POS it was. Now YOU are comparing the 2004 Odyssey to current, 100% changed model?

While it may take an extra minute to stow the "Magic Seat" it still permits an eighth person to ride belted in the Odyssey. Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?

mrblonde49 · February 2006

"I'll run through a very typical scenario: load up the kids and get them buckled into their seats in the 2nd row. Drive to grandparents house to pick them up for dinner. With the Ody, the kids stay in their seats and grandma/grandpa go down the side aisle to the rear (or my wife goes to the rear with grandma and grandpa slides in next to the driver). With the DGC, 1 child has to get unbuckled/get out and then the seat tilted forward (or were you going to do that with the seat occupied?), the back seat is accessed, and then the child is rebuckled. Yep, way more convenient my way. "

I have yet to have a problem with ANY of my passengers not being able to get to the back seat through the middle with both kids strapped in their seats. The tip is to move the front seats up so they have room to move. And I'm not talking about slim people.

And I also have the 2004 T&C, which has bigger middle seats

cpsdarren · February 2006

I've seen a Honda salesperson demonstration stowing the 8th "seat" into it's storage area - not easy. I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy. I've reintalled seats - not easy. I've slid the seats together on an Ody (2004) - not easy (especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV).

It may not be easy compared to a folding seat, but storing and re-installing the Plus One is easy compared to removing the 8th seat in a Sienna. It's all relative, plus it gets easier with practice- something my salespersons didn't have when demonstrating the center seats on both the Odyssey and Sienna.

Similarly, Stow 'n Go is far easier than removing a captain's chair, but not as easy or quick as most current third row folding seats. I had some difficulty the first few times I tried it, but it was easier after that. Even Consumer Reports noted, "Access to the third row is good, but it's awkward to flip the second-row seats forward."

The Honda sliding seat is quite easy and fast once you get the hang of it. It's not quite as nice as the Mazda, because you don't have to tilt the Mazda seat back slightly to move it. On the other hand, it's easier than the 7-passenger Sienna that requires you to remove and lift the captain's chair completely before re-installing it on the other anchors.

Everything is a compromise, which is pretty much the point of discussing the advantages these systems have for one family but may not apply to others.

jipster · February 2006

"especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV"

You got that right. :shades:

cpsdarren · February 2006

If I only wanted a cargo hauler, I would have kept my truck...I think...I wanted...I not only had...I had...I had...I feel I got...I think I have...If I have anything ...I'm covered...I'll be just as happy...I'll smile when...I didn't have to pay...

That's a lot of "I"s. No need to be defensive- I think most have made it repeatedly clear they aren't being critical of your particular choice. As you aptly said, "We'll both be happy because we bought a minivan that was right for us." Highlighting the differences and realizing they may apply differently to other buyers is the key point. artpgo actually said the same thing at the end of post 1693 (the section you didn't quote).

cpsdarren · February 2006

"I purchased my DCX for quality, durability, safety, and performance (ohhh I know, the Ody is an amazing 1.4secs faster to 60 mph!!). It has the most flexible and easy to configure interior of any minivan. It has superior tow capacity, and much lower cost to equip with tow package (including auto air suspension - not available on Ody). It has been extremely trouble free (unlike the 250 posts in less than 2 months for Ody problems 2005+). I actually hit my EPA numbers for my van (sometimes exceed them even!) On top of all that, it was about $10,000 less then equivalent Ody EX (yeah, I'm at the extreme savings end but $5000 is easy to do!). Ohh, and the Stow N Go system is great for people with active lifestyles....like camping, windsurfing, shopping trips to outlet malls etc..."

I purchased my Honda for a flexible and easy to configure interior (ohhh I know, the DCX is a little easier for cargo when you need the second row space!). It has good towing capacity. It has superior quality, durability, safety, performance and fuel economy according to published comparisons like those by Consumer Reports, Motor Trend and MotorWeek. It has superior passenger capacity (including an 8th seat not available on DCX). On top of all that, it was also a great value when you consider operating costs and resale- in fact it was the best overall value according to Intellichoice. Ohh, and the stability control and standard side curtain airbags with rollover sensors and crash sensors for all three rows are great for people who want to avoid crashes and survive those that do happen...

;-) OK, apologies for the satire... Again, the point is that you made the choice that was best for you. There are still differences that may cause someone else to make a different choice because their preferences may vary.

rorr · February 2006

I'm trying to figure out how a vehicle which offers fewer possible seating combinations (the DCX vans with sto'n'go) is more flexible?

Easy to reconfigure? Sure, no doubt. But if other vans offer more possible ways to configure the seating, wouldn't they be more flexible?

dennisctc · February 2006

Now YOU are comparing the 2004 Odyssey to current, 100% changed model? Only because I haven't had the opportunity to slide the seats together on a 2005+ Ody, maybe there's been major improvements, maybe not? That's why I spoke to 2004. I didn't make comparisons to a 3 generation old design....hmm sorry Honda didn't have a minivan back then?? My biggest POS was a 1979 Honda Civic....SO WHAT!! Doesn't mean current Civics are crap or even other 1979s, and I really like the new Si Coupe and how they intregrated the Nav into the two tier IP!!

Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?

Chop em up into small pieces first!! Actually I bet more people purchased their Stow N Go van for the flexiblility than Honda buyers for 8th seat.

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