Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

marine2 · February 2006

While it may take an extra minute to stow the "Magic Seat" it still permits an eighth person to ride belted in the Odyssey. Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?

You don't. Same way you can't stuff nine people belted in on your Ody. But So far, I haven't had even seven people to carry in my van.

It's the same as the one poster said, if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended? Funny how we only seem to look at things from one point of view. My chances of having to haul eight is probably as good as your's is to haul nine.

sebring95 · February 2006

It's clear that Honda owners have more friends so they need the extra seating :P Sorry, couldn't help myself with all the other ridiculousness around here!!

It amazes me how some folks just can't fathom someone else having a different situation/requirement over someone else. I think it's clear the DCX vans have the market locked up for swapping between passengers/cargo. The Honda has it locked up if you want a full 2nd row bench. I wanted to seat three in the 2nd row, so I bought the Honda. My elderly mother will be buying a DC van because she uses it for cargo, and occassionally passengers. Pretty simple stuff.

marine2 · February 2006

I loved it sebring95

rorr · February 2006

"...if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended?"

No, you don't have as much protection.

First: you grandkids are sitting in the 3rd row, closer to the rear-ending car. My kids are sitting in the 2nd row, further from the rear-ending car.

Second: when a car is struck violently from the rear, that car is driven forward. The laws of inertia dictate that all objects INSIDE the van (people and cargo) tend to stay in place (don't move forward with the van); which is why you see whiplash injuries from heads snapping backwards, etc.

Cargo in the middle of van (like a heavy air compressor or dresser) likewise tend to stay in place as the van is driven forward. In the same manner as things will fly FORWARD if you nail the brakes, the air compressor will fly BACKWARD if you get rear-ended.

Right back into the legs/face/torso of children in the 3rd row.

BTW - you might want to check the user's profile of cpsdarren. And you might want to listen when he posts items regarding cargo hauling and child safety.

bluedevils · February 2006

"In the end, I'll offer this:

IMO, the DCX vans offer more EASE in converting from people hauling to cargo handling; particularly if the 2nd row area is needed.

IMO, other vans offer more VERSATILITY in seating, particularly if 3rd row acess is desired."

Excellent post, and an excellent synopsis that I have not seen made by anyone else so far on this board. Nice work.

marine2 · February 2006

..if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended?"

No, you don't have as much protection.

First: you grandkids are sitting in the 3rd row, closer to the rear-ending car. My kids are sitting in the 2nd row, further from the rear-ending car.

I am talking about you having a full van and you have children sitting back there. They would be as vulnerable as my kids from a rear end hit. Unless you never carry kids in your third row. If that's the case, you don't need an eight passenger van.

Second: when a car is struck violently from the rear, that car is driven forward. The laws of inertia dictate that all objects INSIDE the van (people and cargo) tend to stay in place (don't move forward with the van); which is why you see whiplash injuries from heads snapping backwards, etc.

Your head will go backwards no matter if your in the second or third row.

Cargo in the middle of van (like a heavy air compressor or dresser) likewise tend to stay in place as the van is driven forward. In the same manner as things will fly FORWARD if you nail the brakes, the air compressor will fly BACKWARD if you get rear-ended.

The cargo will go no place when hit if it is secured. That is why I carry rope in the one bin I showed in the picture. You have no way of securing it in the rear as there are no tie downs.

rorr · February 2006

Thanks. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead....

cpsdarren · February 2006

The cargo will go no place when hit if it is secured. That is why I carry rope in the one bin I showed in the picture. You have no way of securing it in the rear as there are no tie downs.

Strong rope securely tied to the chassis should be fine for most loads.

When I carry moderate sized things behind the third row, I often use heavy-duty solid rubber bungees looped around the leg of the third row seat or clipped on to unused child restraint tether anchors. Combined with the well in the floor and the barrier of the full-width third row seat, the cargo isn't likely to move.

Restrained properly, either way should be fine for all but unusually severe crashes. The only problem is unrestrained or poorly restrained cargo, wherever you happen to have it.

marine2 · February 2006

Thanks. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead....

Yes, if you were ahead.

pocono35 · February 2006

Current market research indicates that consumers are cross-shopping brands more than ever due to the availability of information on the internet. When you bought your last vehicle, how many did you look at? More than one i am guessing. I am quite sure that no manufacturer, no matter what their reputation, product offering or specific 'gadget' has their particular market locked up exclusively. Whether its stow and go, safety, accessories, etc. the market is far to static to give any one manufacturer a lock. Even though I own a Pilot, if I wanted a van, I would test-drive Mazda, maybe a Toyota, the new Sedona and the Ody. No others would have my interest for a number of reasons. But that is just me!

marine2 · February 2006

Restrained properly, either way should be fine for all but unusually severe crashes. The only problem is unrestrained or poorly restrained cargo, wherever you happen to have it.

I agree completely cpsdarren

dennisctc · February 2006

Is this another one of those "1.4 seconds faster to 60mph" quibbles i.e.. I can seat one extra person, which is much more important to me and my family and I'd never use Stow N Go, then not having to remove seats, lug em in and out, then find a place to put em. I think the marketplace has already decided that Stow N Go is more important to many more buyers than an 8th seat.

I'll quibble that EASE and FLEXIBILITY "ON THE GO" for DCX beats all.

dennisctc · February 2006

The Honda has it locked up if you want a full 2nd row bench. I wanted to seat three in the 2nd row, so I bought the Honda.

Doesn't Toyota offer full bench also??

marine2 · February 2006

Even though I own a Pilot, if I wanted a van, I would test-drive Mazda, maybe a Toyota, the new Sedona and the Ody. No others would have my interest for a number of reasons. But that is just me!

I am sorry to hear that you will lock out all American vans out of consideration. Many are doing that with cars too. America has come a long way in bringing up their quality, although I admit there are still some models that haven't. On a whole, America has moved passed the Europeans in quality and are gaining on and even over taking some Japanese brands.

I think this country is really going to hurt if we allow American manufactures go under. While other countries are building new plants here and hiring American workers, billions of dollars in profit is leaving this country and creating jobs abroad when it could be used here to create jobs for Americans.

Now I know from past conversations, some are going to say billions of dollars are spent here with some of that profit, modernizing plants and buying parts ,etc. All this is true. But that doesn't take away from the fact that American manufactures put many billions more back into the American economy than foreign manufactures do. Creating even more jobs for Americans.

rorr · February 2006

"Is this another one of those "1.4 seconds faster to 60mph" quibbles..."

No, not really. If the Ody is 1.4 seconds quicker to 60, it would be inaccurate to claim that the DCX van was faster. It makes no difference if the delta is 1.4 seconds or 14 seconds.

Same thing with the seating. The Ody offers more seating options. Even with the Touring model (which doesn't have the +1 seat), the fact that the RH 2nd row seat can be slid to the center means an additional seating arrangement option. This option is not available on the DCX vans. Ergo, the Ody offers more seating options. More options = more flexibility.

I've already said (numerous times) that reconfiguring the DCX van is more CONVENIENT due to sto'n'go. But I don't equate convenience with flexibility.

Anybody want to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

sebring95 · February 2006

Doesn't Toyota offer full bench also??

Yes, they offer three seats in the 2nd row as does Honda. Perhaps I was too vague. Toyota's offering only comes on the LE model, which doesn't have leather nor dual power sliding doors, etc. A base model in my book. Honda offers it in their middle model at least. I would have preferred a Touring with the 8th seat, but EX-L R&N isn't equipped too bad.

thegraduate · February 2006

I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy.

Yes, I remember how complicated it was on our 2000 Ody EX.

Let me run through all of the steps.

1) Unlatch seat from anchor (pull a tab at bottom/side of seat

2) Remove seat

3) Wait...there is no more to do. If that's not easy, I don't know what is.

marine2 · February 2006

I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy.

Yes, I remember how complicated it was on our 2000 Ody EX.

Let me run through all of the steps.

1) Unlatch seat from anchor (pull a tab at bottom/side of seat

2) Remove seat

3) Wait...there is no more to do. If that's not easy, I don't know what is.

Put something down on the floor so you don't get the bottom edges dirty. Pull it out of the van. Carry it out to the garage. Come back from getting what you want to haul and pick up seat, carry it back to the van and reinstall it. When all you had to do is have stow and go and you could stow and set it back up in about a minute with no carrying and no fuss.

thegraduate · February 2006

Put something down on the floor so you don't get the bottom edges dirty. Pull it out of the van. Carry it out to the garage

Not for us, our van stayed in the clean garage anyway. It was 1)unlatch it, 2)pick it up, set it down 2 feet away beside the bikes. The bottom edges are hard plastic, nothing to get dirty. Reinstallation is as easy as 1)picking it up, 2)setting it in place. It self-latches.

marine2 · February 2006

Not for us, our van stayed in the clean garage anyway. It was 1)unlatch it, 2)pick it up, set it down 2 feet away beside the bikes. The bottom edges are hard plastic, nothing to get dirty. Reinstallation is as easy as 1)picking it up, 2)setting it in place. It self-latches.

Sounds pretty good to me as long as you didn't have to drive back home to do it.

thegraduate · February 2006

Yep. Total number of times this was needed in 66 months? 1, and we only removed one of the two seats (patio furniture).

marine2 · February 2006

Yep. Total number of times this was needed in 66 months? 1, and we only removed one of the two seats (patio furniture).

Wait till you get older and your children grow up and when your furniture wears out and your kids have children and your buying stuff for them. I am carrying stuff in my van all the time.

A few months ago, I loaded up a new sink, cabinet, tub and toilet and my brother and I put it in for my sister. Last week I bought a chest for our daughter who is going to have a baby any day now. My sister bought an electric chair for my mom and I am looking for ramps to carry that in so my 92 year old mother can get out. I took over a bassinet to my daughters yesterday. There is always something to put in my van.

That's what families do, help each other. We are doing it all the time.

dennisctc · February 2006

Yep. Total number of times this was needed in 66 months? 1, and we only removed one of the two seats (patio furniture).

I helped my coworker buy patio furniture last summer over lunch, spur of the moment, there was a leftover set she loved at homodepot. Luckily I had my van with me, stowed the seats, loaded the assembled set into the van and had it to her place 30 minutes laterl. This vs driving home, removing seats, driving back to homedepot, delivering the set and then returning home and reinstalling the seats. That's what friends and Stow N Go minivans are for.

dennisctc · February 2006

Yes, I remember how complicated it was on our 2000 Ody EX.

Let me run through all of the steps.

1) Unlatch seat from anchor (pull a tab at bottom/side of seat

2) Remove seat

3) Wait...there is no more to do. If that's not easy, I don't know what is.

And I bet you did this all with one hand while drinking a coke in the other, talking on your cell phone etc...because the Ody seats also are feather light!!! And I'm sure they go in equally effortlessly!!

Darn, DCX wasted hundreds of Millions when all they should have done was copy Honda's seat mechanisms!!

Wow, I'm starting to believe Ody owners are genetically superior beings!! We have grandparents who are gymnasts that love crawling into Ody 3rd seats. Ody owners who make Stow N Go obsolete with their weight lifting abilities. And they're all wealthy enough to pay delivery of everything to their homes while paying so much more for a minivan!!

dennisctc · February 2006

Not for us, our van stayed in the clean garage anyway. It was 1)unlatch it, 2)pick it up, set it down 2 feet away beside the bikes. The bottom edges are hard plastic, nothing to get dirty. Reinstallation is as easy as 1)picking it up, 2)setting it in place. It self-latches.

Maybe your garage floor is made out of something different than poured concrete, if not, be careful. See, the concrete particles can get embedded into even "hard plastic", so your van could still get "dirty".....just be careful please!!!

rorr · February 2006

Let me get this straight:

You were able to use this item of convenience ONCE last year....and this justifies it's purchase?

Reminds me of a guy I used to work with several years ago. He owned a full-sized F250 dually pickup truck. Mind you, he had no trailer, lived in the city, and used the truck to commute with. That truck was spotless. When I asked him WHY he had such a big truck, he replied that he's glad he had it because he was able to help somebody move once with it. I asked how much stuff he could carry in the bed and he replied that they had rented a trailer. When I asked why he just didn't rent a truck on those very odd occassions when a truck was needed, he looked at me like I was from outer space.

You've used sto'n'go in an unplanned circumstance ONCE in a year. And this justifies it?

rorr · February 2006

"We have grandparents who are gymnasts that love crawling into Ody 3rd seats."

Whoa, waitaminute...slight bit of confusion. The gymnasts would be those crawling into the DCX 3rd row seats. It was very easy in the Ody with it's wiiiiiiiide aisle right next to the door. Created by, you remember, SLIDING the RH seat over.

your turn...

marine2 · February 2006

You've used sto'n'go in an unplanned circumstance ONCE in a year. And this justifies it?

Well I use mine a heck of a lot more. As you get older and have family, you'll use your's more than once in 66 months also. Unless of course your rich enough to have it always delivered or you don't have family to help. I'm not lucky enough for any of those.

rorr · February 2006

"As you get older and have family, you'll use your's more than once in 66 months also."

Oh, I dunno. My dad is 69 and my mom is 67. They seem to do okay with a Prius and a 4runner. If we (they) need to haul anything big, we can use the Ody or we can hook up our utility trailer to the 4runner.

"Unless of course your rich enough to have it always delivered"

The constant insinuation that Ody owner's are rich is getting tiresome. And frankly (IMO) I think it's beneath you. And at what point will you understand that Ody owners CAN haul stuff and that Ody owners DO haul stuff, just as DGC owners hauled stuff prior to sto'n'go.

BTW - have I said lately that for your needs, sto'n'go made sense?

marine2 · February 2006

The constant insinuation that Ody owner's are rich is getting tiresome. And frankly (IMO) I think it's beneath you. And at what point will you understand that Ody owners CAN haul stuff and that Ody owners DO haul stuff, just as DGC owners hauled stuff prior to sto'n'go.

Well you say that but I would bet if we go back through all these posts, Honda owners either say they never do or only have done it once or twice.

dennisctc · February 2006

You've used sto'n'go in an unplanned circumstance ONCE in a year. And this justifies it?

No that was a single example, I have used Stow N Go many times, some planned such as my camping trips where I like the large open area with 3 row up (for dogs). I've used it during roadtrip to Toronto when a friend purchased a wall unit at Ikea and it required me to stow one center seat and the half of the 3rd seat. Nice thing is, being a do-it-yourselfer, I never worry when I'm out with my van whether I can get a purchase home....I have that freedom of not having to plan all my trips and purchases.

dennisctc · February 2006

Whoa, waitaminute...slight bit of confusion. The gymnasts would be those crawling into the DCX 3rd row seats. It was very easy in the Ody with it's wiiiiiiiide aisle right next to the door. Created by, you remember, SLIDING the RH seat over.

A simple pull on one strap flips and folds the DCX against the driver seat, making for very easy entrance.

dennisctc · February 2006

Well you say that but I would bet if we go back through all these posts, Honda owners either say they never do or only have done it once or twice.

History will prove that Stow N Go was DCX's Edsel moment and you and I are the only 2 DCX owners that use it. I'll bet it'll be discontinued as an option next year!! Mark my words!!

jchan2 · February 2006

You guys- these are MINIVANS. We all own one, or buy one, or want to buy one, for different and varied reasons.

Some people want cargo carrying flexibility. The DCX vans are for them.

Some people want the ultimate in refinement. The Sienna is for them.

Some want a comfortable interior combined with a nice driving experience- the Odyssey is for them.

Some people are fleet buyers. Ford and GM will flock to them and gladly sell them 10,000 Freestars or Uplanders at once.

Some people just want the best deal pure and simple. The Sedona and DCX vans are for them.

I know I left some out but the reason why there are so many different vans to choose from is that we are all different and we have different needs so therefore different vans fit those needs.

Me? I have an Odyssey, but the Sienna is currently the most attractive van on my list to replace the Odyssey. (I'll take a Sienna Limited with Package 3)

rorr · February 2006

"A simple pull on one strap flips and folds the DCX against the driver seat, making for very easy entrance."

We've been through this: the 2nd row seats are occupied by two girls ages 4 and 6, buckled into their booster seats. Or would you flip the seat forward with a kid in it?

With my configuration (mid row seats next to each other) no gymnastics are required to get to the back. Nobody has to get out of the 2nd row, nobody has to slide their front seat waaay forward so that grandma can sidle in front of the kids to get to the center aisle and then go back. We just open the door, and they get in. Easy sneezy. Flexible. And, did I mention, convenient?

Oh, and we've done that on more than one occasion since last summer.....

To clarify (before you fire off another response); I'm not saying that the Ody setup is the BEST setup for EVERYBODY. I'm saying that, for us, the Ody was better. We realized that for OUR use, it made more sense to gain the additional seating options rather than gain the convenience of easily stowing the seats.

If I talked to someone intending to buy a minivan, I would sincerely ask if they intended the vehicle to be primarily a people hauler with the ABILITY to haul large items if needed.....Or....do they intend to switch frequently from a people hauler to a cargo hauler. For those who intend to switch frequently, the DCX approach makes more sense. The gain in convenience far outweighs the very small tradeoff of fixed seat position.

But for those more interested in seating options who just want the ability to occasionally haul large items, I think the Ody deserves a very close look.

Is there anything unfair about that?

rorr · February 2006

"You guys- these are MINIVANS."

INFIDEL!!!!!!!

jchan2 · February 2006

All I have to say is (as a current Odyssey owner who will probably buy another minivan):

lastwraith · February 2006

Considering some of the other boards that are quite dead, it is nice to see that at least this board is passionate about their vehicles. Though it does get tiresome to hear the "DCX minivans are terrible quality compared to Toyota/Honda OR DCX minivans are the GREATEST and everyone should have one just because the seats can fold into the floor".

jchan2 · February 2006

I agree.

Some boards are like...

DEAD.

jipster · February 2006

"I agree. Some boards are like.................DEAD"

All you "troublemakers" are more than welcome to come over to the land of ZOOM ZOOM and talk about all the wonderful merits of the MPV.

As Kirstie(host) would say...it would be the biggest comeback since Lazurus.

marine2 · February 2006

All you "troublemakers" are more than welcome to come over to the land of ZOOM ZOOM and talk about all the wonderful merits of the MPV.

.

Now who are you calling troublemakers? Besides, if we all went over there,Claires would be bored out of her mind. We keep her busy and (happy?) here. Well, it least busy

rorr · February 2006

"Now who are you calling troublemakers?"

YEAH! No troublemakers in here!

I prefer the term 'dialog facilitator'.....

marine2 · February 2006

Besides, if you would just listen to me and buy Dodge minvans, there wouldn't be any troublemakers.

rorr · February 2006

"...welcome to come over to the land of ZOOM ZOOM and talk about all the wonderful merits of the MPV."

There's a thread devoted to the MPV......?

What you need are some of those "MPV vs...." threads. That way we can go in there and screech, beat our chests, and sling monkey dung at each other over misc. archane minivan features....while driving some of the saner members off to other boards. :surprise:

rorr · February 2006

"Besides, if you would just listen to me and buy Dodge minvans, there wouldn't be any troublemakers."

Can't do that - then the DGC vs. Ody thread would die and THEN where would Edmunds be?

Personally, I think we're doing everybody a public service..

marine2 · February 2006

Very true. And Claires would be without a job. There is enough jobs lost now. She should thank us.

rorr · February 2006

I'll try to remember that the next time I get one of her e-mails.....

jipster · February 2006

"There's a thread devoted to the MPV...?"

Ohh...that's cold dawg. Good one though.

Actually, there have been several "MPV vs..." threads in the past.(i.e vs Ody & vs Sedona) Sadly, they have all died a slow and lingering death. With the 2007 MPV not coming to the U.S...my kind will soon be extinct. How sad and tragic that will be.(I'm sure you all agree)

"screech, beat our chests, and sling monkey dung..."

LOL. There is plenty of B.S thrown around these minivans boards. Maybe the monkey dung will be an improvement.

thegraduate · February 2006

Well, I was a child when we got the van (12 years old). Now I'm still a "youngun" to most on the boards (18 and in college), but after many band competitions and practices, we always ended up with more people than cargo. I guess that's why different options are out there.

coltswin · February 2006

And you're on a minivan discussion board? Get over to the Honda Civic tuner board now!

Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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