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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yes sir. Don't I first have to go to my room and think about what I've done?
  • coltswincoltswin Member Posts: 17
    Usually you have to be over 30 to get over the van stigma thing and purchase one ... I still get crazy looks from friends and co-workers when I mention I own a van. They would never purchase a van ... they must have a huge gas guzzling SUV. I assume the van you have is your parents. What do you drive?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I can't understand the SUV craze. I have a friend who told me he wanted a Grand Cherokee. This person doesn't camp, bike or anything active. He said he needed it to get to work in bad weather but he lives 3 miles down a 6 lane highway from his office.

    Friends that poke fun at my Minivan then turn around asking for me to help them pick up items that won't fit in their SUVs easily i.e....TV sets, cabinets etc...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I actually have 2 Accords. I participate here because I learned to drive in the 2000 Ody EX, and drove it about 15,000 miles of its life.
  • estoesto Member Posts: 136
    I'm at the front end of my looking for a new minivan, and have some questions about what is out there.

    If one were to filter one's choices based on 2006 models having traction control, stability control, and a third row seat that is split with each section being independently stowable, would the list have more than the following on it?

    Toyota Sienna
    Honda Odyssey
    Kia Sedona

    (I have not looked at any GM products - our current van is an Astro - 'nuff said.)

    Thanks!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    That would be about it. The DCX vans do not have Stability Control.

    Don't forget the Hyundai Entourage (Kia Sedona based minivan) coming mid 2006 I believe.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    If you can read through this board going back about a month you will get some very diverse opinions. The new Sedona is the best value for safety and features. Kia is really trying to get it "right" and right now. We own a 2005 Sportage and a 2006 Odyssey. The only reason I did not wait for the new Sedona was I got impatient. There are some who claim the third row seat in the new Sedona is uncomfortably low for adults. There has been no disputing the comfort claims of the Odyssey owners. The Sienna has the best interior of any minivan but the third row is not quite as roomy as is the Odyssey. The Odyssey has great performance, handling and is tops in the minivan class for EPA rating based on the standard engine in EX-L and Touring models.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    The Sienna has the best interior of any minivan but the third row is not quite as roomy as is the Odyssey.

    The Odyssey has more legroom, but the Sienna has a few extra inches of hiproom. For a couple adults, the Odyssey may be more roomy, but for 3 kids in back, the Sienna would probably be a better choice.
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    My father in law got a Sedona as a rental and was pretty unhappy with only one thing....the turning radius. It was bad enough for him to be annoyed by it and he drives a more than full size van for work each day. Crunching the numbers on Edmund's here to verify turning radius for various vehicles yields....

    Caravan Sedona Sienna
    37.6 ft. 39.6 ft. 36.8 ft.

    Just wanted to bring it up in case it would annoy you as much as it did him. He was none too happy having to greatly anticipate parking maneuvers for an everday family hauler.

    good luck shopping!
  • navyairnavyair Member Posts: 202
    The Sedona handles really well at slow speeds. The only parking maneuver problems I've encountered is when you have to do a 180. Then, you are better off with a J-turn. Oh, and my wife couldn't figure out where the bumper was for the first 10000 miles, but that is another problem, unrelated to engineering. :-)
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    The turning radius IS noticeably long. It does get annoying at times, but has not diminished our happiness with our pretty much trouble-free 2002 Sedona EX that now has almost 63,000 miles. Still on the original brakes, by the way.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "got a Sedona as a rental and was pretty unhappy with only one thing....the turning radius."

    I wonder if this trait was just for the old model Sedona or if the new, redesigned Sedona still has a large turning radius?
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Once again the Odyssey made it into CR's annual Top Ten. CR said "The Odyssey leads it class in agility, refinement and interior flexibility, Consumer Reports says. Electronic stability control and side curtain air bags are standard."
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Once again the Odyssey made it into CR's annual Top Ten. CR said "The Odyssey leads it class in agility, refinement and interior flexibility, Consumer Reports says. Electronic stability control and side curtain air bags are standard."

    I agree, the Ody is an excellent minivan and just beautiful inside. If you are going to buy a minivan and use it primary to carry people, you couldn't make a better choice. But if you have a bunch of kids, do a lot of work around your house, have an invalid living with you, go camping and etc. Your Dodge/Chrysler, with Stow-n-Go is a better bet.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    The Odyssey can be pretty expensive, but the base model looks pretty reasonable. What is really lacking in the cheapest base model. DVDs, leather, super stereo, shiny wheels, etc I can do without, but are there any practical/safety things I'd lose?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    All the safety features are standard acrossed the board for the Ody models. I don't think the LX has power sliding doors which may or may not be something you really want. They're great when the kids are young and you're carrying them around. I think it's tough to beat an LX just based on the powertrain/safety features. But, I like all the bells and whistles myself.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Well, with the LX you get wheel covers instead of alloys, manual sliding doors, manual HVAC (separate front and rear), no HomeLink system, no lazy-susan tray for the infloor storage (although I've removed ours), no +1 8th seat, no CD changer, no roof rails, no power drivers seat, no mid-row window shades, black non-heated side mirrors, no audio controls on steering wheel, no ambient console lighting(?) or front door courtesy lights, no 'conversation' (convex) mirror, no cargo net, and no external air temp.

    I think that's the extent of the differences between the LX and the EX. You can decide what is a 'practical' item but all the safety features are standard (with the exception of the tire pressure monitoring system which is only on the Touring model with the PAX run-flats).
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    "The Odyssey leads it class in agility, refinement and interior flexibility.......

    You did read this part? The Odyssey will do everything your DCX does except have seats folding into the floor. A folding third row seat is probably used more often by the average buyer and the Odyssey's is much easier to fold than is the DCX. It takes effort to remove the Odyssey's middle row but most people would rarely, if ever need that function. As stated before, those who need that folding second row will go with DCX.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Actually, I was a bit surprised that the Ody made it to the "Recommended" list. With two solid black circles(indicating worse) in the categories of 1)body intergrity and 2)power equipment. As well as having a white circle(indicating average)for body hardware...the Ody was rated last amoung Honda produced vehilces in terms of reliability. Add to that, the fact that Ody has recieved 4 black circles(2 half, 2 full) in the last 6 years under the category of transmission reliability...and it is interesting that Ody is CR's top minivan...considering how much weight they put into reliability.

    It is also interesting to note that the areas that the Ody scored poorly in...are the same areas posted frequently in the ODY PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS board.

    My vote would have been for the Toyota Sienna...with much better reliability ratings.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "and it is interesting that Ody is CR's top minivan...considering how much weight they put into reliability."

    Consumer Reports does not weight reliability as a factor at all for its overall rating. It does require at least an "Average" (empty circle) reliability projection to give a model the "Recommended" pick rating, though. The Sienna and Odyssey were almost tied in the last full review and both received the second tier "Top Recommendation" flag in the latest issue.

    Perhaps they keep their overall and reliability ratings somewhat independent because most vehicles are pretty reliable according to their figures. Given the reliability projections they published a few months ago and the baseline numbers from last April and October, I calculated that the difference between a 2005 Odyssey and Sienna is about 1 more problem on the Odyssey over 5 years and 2 more problems over 8 years. Not a big difference, in my opinion, especially considering the 2005 Odyssey was a first year model.

    I guess it all depends if you value that difference in reliability over the other criteria Consumer Reports uses to evaluate vehicles.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    A folding third row seat is probably used more often by the average buyer and the Odyssey's is much easier to fold than is the DCX.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL......on what basis is "much easier" made, seems more like personal opinion than something factual.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier? "seems more like personal opinion than something factual."
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Honda Ody scored a 91 in the overall rating and the Toyota Sienna a 89. While true CR does not weight reliability as a factor for it's overall rating, given that much of the magazines emphasis is on reliability, and the Sienna did not have any problem(black) areas, I thought the nod should have gone to the Sienna.

    On reliability CR states,"Because problem rates in some trouble spots are very low, we do not assign a (total black circle)or a (half black circle)unless the model's problem rate exceeds 3 percent. If a problem rate is below 2 percent it will be assignned a(half red circle)below 1% it will be assigned a (solid red circle)"

    So, there really is no way of knowing what percent a black circles problem rate represents. It could be anything from 3.1%...up to 25% or beyond.

    I'd like to see C.R do away with that whole circle junk...and just give us the numbers.(score them 1-100) Perhaps they're afraid of getting sued if they made two or three models look like total :lemon: :lemon:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "I'd like to see C.R do away with that whole circle junk...and just give us the numbers.(score them 1-100) Perhaps they're afraid of getting sued if they made two or three models look like total"

    Or because it would be harder to sell copy if they didn't exaggerate small differences...

    Incidentally, the numbers I used were not calculated from the individual category ratings which are indeed to vague to use. I used the overall reliability numbers they give for vehicles after each year. On one of the popular Sienna club organization forums online I gave the whole calculation in the minivan comparisons area, for anyone interested.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    is the best minivan buy in my opinion. You get all the safety gear at a decent price. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one it's just that I like having all the fancy gear like Navigation and leather... :blush:
  • fred222fred222 Member Posts: 200
    is the best minivan buy in my opinion. You get all the safety gear at a decent price.
    I assume you mean the Odyssey LX.
    I agree. I also agree about the some of the options. However, what fit my needs best was the Odyssey EX-L. I really wanted the leather and the VCM and the sunroof is nice. I don't need the nav and have a nice portable dual screen DVD/video game setup for trips. I am thinking about getting another one so each of my three children can have their own screen/program.
    We also have an Intrepid with the 3.2L (220 HP)engine and a Pacifica with the 3.5 L (250 HP) engine. The Odyssey is the fastest of these vehicles off the line and accelerating at speed.
  • estoesto Member Posts: 136
    You get all the safety gear at a decent price.

    What about the '06 Sedona? ABS + traction control + stability control + air bags up the wazoo + tire pressure monitoring + active headrests + whatever else I forgot. All standard in the base Sedona LX. How about that as a best minivan buy, safety-wise?
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    I guess I didn't specify. This was a rental that occurred two weeks ago and I believe it was an '05 Sedona.

    And as per Edmund's, the '06 has a 39.6 ft turning radius. This is an "improvement" from the 41.1 ft turning radius of the '05 but not exactly good.
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    Actually, you assume right, it's in his title! ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier?

    Duh, nooooo I only test drove the O5 Ody five times back to back to the DCX vans, but never once looked at, or tried flipping the seats in either!! OF COURSE I HAVE!!! Have you ever even looked at an DCX van? They're almost identical....flip a latch, pull a strap...DONE! So to say the Ody is "much easier" than a DCX van, or any other is mostly personal opinion based on what you own and are used to. I'd say I need two second for each section to fold. Maybe Ody owners can fold both sections at the same time, or something I over looked when purchasing?? I guess I could use each hand to flip and fold both of my sections too, if I'm ever in that big of a hurry???

    Let's try: My glovebox opens and shuts easier than an Ody's!! or My driver door has a higher quality "thunk" to it closing!!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "I guarantee it is easier than DCX"

    Guarantee??? Or what...double my money back? :surprise:

    Consumer Reports saying the Ody is 2006's top minivan is the same thing as you saying you guarantee your Ody third row seats fold easier(or hold more llamas) than dennistic's. Mostly, a subjective matter of opinion, personal taste and preferences. If you buy whatever best fits your needs and desires, then you come out of top. As you choose the best minivan for you...not the minivan that was best for Consumer Reports or Motor Trend. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier? "

    Have YOU tried the DCX vans? From your posts here, it sounds like you'd never even set foot in a dealership...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Sedona hasn't been crash tested by the IIHS yet so nobody knows how well it will hold up but other than that the base Sedona and the base Odyssey are the best buys. There's not much justification in buying the higher end models (EX-L and EX) unless you're looking for specific features like navigation.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    CR and Edmunds may think Odd and Sedona are best buys but most Americans feel otherwise. Neither of them state that the Odd LX or Sedona LX are the best buy.

    Most Americans like more features than the base Odd LX or Sedona LX contain. Most Odd dealers do NOT even stock or order the Odd LX because of very low demand.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Most Americans like more features than the base Odd LX or Sedona LX contain. Most Odd dealers do NOT even stock or order the Odd LX because of very low demand.

    I'm not disagreeing with you here, but where did you get the idea that most american's don't buy Odyssey LX's.

    Is there any statistical data that can support that?

    I personally would not buy the Odyssey LX. I prefer the features on the EX models.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Just look up isellhondas posts. He has stated more than once that there are VERY FEW Odyssey buyers who will buy the Odyssey LX.

    The Odyssey is # 3 in minivan sales. Do the math. There are NOT many Odyssey LX minivans sold. The majority of Odyssey buyers want as a minimum the Odyssey EX and many opt for the EX-L that has NAV or RES optional.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    "Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier? "


    I doubt the DGC is easier to fold than the Ody, although it is easy. But only because it folds two different ways. It folds flat like the Ody, but it also flips over to make tailgate seating that the Ody doesn't do.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    OK, so I'm driving down I75 in Detroit yesterday and was behind a new Sedona and DCX GC. The Kia looked a lot smaller than the Dodge??? (Yes i'm certain it was 2006 and not previous smaller gen)

    Also stopped at a Honda dealer yesterday to double check the 3rd folding seats. Luckily I thought "cool, there's one in showroom" because it was about 15 outside. I walked inside and was nabbed by a salesperson......after 20 minutes of BSing with the guy, I finally walked over to the Ody in the corner. It was beautiful....dark blue, gray leather...a loaded Touring with sticker of $38k!!!! I was impressed by it, but then thought "wow, that's twice what I paid for my Dodge, so I should be". Of course the model on the showroom had no juice, and therefore I couldn't get hatch open to check out seats. Maybe when it's warmer in Detroit (like August :)
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    My driver door has a higher quality "thunk" to it closing!!

    Not hardly.

    Have you ever even looked at an DCX van? Only about 50 times as rentals and in a back to back opinion poll. I have driven DCX vans many times (sometimes weeks at a time) because I primarily rent from Dollar whose fleet is loaded with DCX vans. Matter of fact, when Dollar does not have the reserved model they will offer up a DCX van as a substitute. Most other customers at the rental counter will chuckle and ask for something else but not me. The people are not refusing the vans became of make, guess they don't want to be seen by business associates in a minivan.....fool people.

    I know you read about the time in October of 2004, when I was randomly selected for an opinion poll to actually drive four minivans back to back over a six mile course of city streets, freeway and bad roads (although they are hard to find in Texas ;) ). I drove the T & C w/ stow and go, Freestar, Relay and Odyssey. The Odyssey was #1 in my opinion in all the catagories. As I drove a proctor asked opinion questions that I was required to score. The proctor recorded my answers. The ride in the Relay was good but not close to the Honda. The Ford and Chrysler were both far behind.

    If one reads the April, 2006 auto issue of Consumer Reports you can see that DCX has fallen far behind Honda and Toyota with quality "worse than average".
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Also stopped at a Honda dealer yesterday to double check the 3rd folding seats. Luckily I thought "cool, there's one in showroom" because it was about 15 outside. I walked inside and was nabbed by a salesperson......after 20 minutes of BSing with the guy, I finally walked over to the Ody in the corner. It was beautiful....dark blue, gray leather...a loaded Touring with sticker of $38k!!!! I was impressed by it, but then thought "wow, that's twice what I paid for my Dodge, so I should be". Of course the model on the showroom had no juice, and therefore I couldn't get hatch open to check out seats. Maybe when it's warmer in Detroit (like August.

    You mean with an almost $30,000. minivan you can't open the rear hatch with a dead battery? You can with the Chrysler, with an electric rear hatch. Maybe Honda should put a battery saver in their vans so they don't have to worry someone doesn't close the doors all the way or leave a dome light on and run down the battery on their minivans. That can't happen on a Chrysler/Dodge minivan.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    My driver door has a higher quality "thunk" to it closing!!

    Not hardly.

    I would be the first one to admit the Honda is much nicer than the Dodge minivan inside. But I will also say the Dodge does have a high quality thunk to their doors

    The ride in the Relay was good but not close to the Honda. The Ford and Chrysler were both far behind.


    Not sure what your looking for in the ride of these minivans, but the ride of the Chrysler is softer than the ride of the Honda. One only has to go over a bumb or railroad tracks to see that. Honda has a much firmer ride.

    If one reads the April, 2006 auto issue of Consumer Reports you can see that DCX has fallen far behind Honda and Toyota with quality "worse than average".

    I get CR, although I haven't got the April issue yet. I don't know what they are judging quality on. True both Japanese models are much nicer inside and offer some features Chrysler doesn't, but owners are paying for the extra quality and features. A goood $5,000-$8,000.00 more.
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Member Posts: 249
    The last paragraph in post 1787, was not meant to be taken seriously. (except for the part about the glovebox closing easier :P )
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Perhaps if dennisctc had used the key............
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    marine2,

    At the time I drove those vans I had not decided on which to buy. The opinion survey test drive sealed the deal on the Odyssey or Sienna due to general features and overall quality. The Freestar and T & C were terrible on the bumpy street with both having an unsettled ride. The Ford, that had less than 300 miles on the odometer, rattled like rocks in a tin can on the same street. There were rattles in the DCX. Matter of fact, whenever I do rent DCX vans they are generally solid feeling and rattle free so maybe this was an exception.

    I bought my Odessey in large part due to the opinion survey test drives and a head to head comparision with the Sienna. As late as last night my wife commented on how much nicer she thought the Odyssey rode when compared to a Sienna XLE. I think the Sienna's interior is the nicest on the market.

    We were invited to an invitation only test drive and marketing show for the new 2007 Tahoe last night at the Southfork Ranch. The Tahoe is large and well finished, drove nice but had considerable less room inside than both your T & C and my Odyssey at almost twice the price.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    DESIGN FLAW. Absurd that the rear hatch cannot be unlocked with the power door locks if the battery gets run down.
    2006 Sienna has another design flaw: No outside place to use a key to unlock the rear hatch (liftgate). The hatch must be unlocked by either the key fob or the power door lock mechanism.
    Can a person unlock the rear liftgate of a 2006 Odyssey from the outside with a key?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I think comparing the Dodge/Chryslers to Honda and Toyota is like comparing apples to oranges.

    I think it's a given the Dodge/Chryslers are not as nice, or have as many features as either the Honda or Toyota. It's like comparing a Caddy to a Chevy Capri. We all know Chrysler doesn't make a top end car since they quit making Imperials. And they don't make a top end minivan (yet).

    When thinking of buying a minivan, you have to know about what your willing to pay for one and understand what you want to do with it.

    Are you wanting to buy the best looking vans inside, that have most of the latest safety features? Are you going to use it mostly to haul around family and friends? Then Honda or Toyota would be a great choice if your willing to spend the extra seven to eight thousand to get it.

    On the other hand, if you want to spend a lot less, still get a pretty safe van, use it to haul not only friends and family, but almost anything else you can get in a minivan and be able to do it in a minutes notice and still have a lot of goodies that only the higher priced vans have, than you can't beat the Chrysler/Dodge minivans. They may not match the beauty of a Honda and Toyota inside, but they're every bit as nice on the outside and they have plenty of goodies on them to make using your van more pleasant. From built in child seats, dual sliding doors, electric rear hatch, power everything, over head computer that will even open and close your garage doors, tell you the temperature outside, direction your headed in and MPG used
  • nzchrisnzchris Member Posts: 1
    Phew there's a lot of threads and details with head-to-head comparisons of similar year models in the years that they came out. But am I wrong in that we don't look at models a few years back with the benefit of hindsight?

    I would love to get you'll thoughts on minivans a few years older- say 2002-2004- and come up with the best for reliability, and features that have stood the test of time. Well a couple of years at least.

    Love to see some feedback so I can make a decision for my next purchase as I like most ppl cant afford a brand new off the lot model.
    Thanks
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    "On the other hand, if you want to spend a lot less, still get a pretty safe van,"

    Consumer Reports stated that the frontal offset crash test was not that great on DCX. It is excellent on Odyssey and Sienna. That type of crash is real world not the frontal barrier used by NHTSA.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    It can be unlocked from inside the Odyssey. You will see a small square cut out that you can pop open with your key and then pull the lever to open the liftgate, it is located at the base of the liftgate right in the center. The Odyssey only has one key hole and that is in the driver's door.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Well nzchris, your still in luck with the Chrysler/Dodge minivans. You could buy a 2002-2004 van and get a good one in any of those years from Chrysler and still pay thousands less than the Honda/Toyota. Now if you were going back much farther,(like 1990 and back) I would suggest you buy a Toyota minivan, as Chrysler and Honda both had problems with their transmissions back then. Your pretty safe with any of the three in those years. Although I think Toyota had some problems with the engine slugging up, although I am not sure of the years they were doing it.
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