Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

hansienna · April 2006

What was the ACTUAL purchase price of your 2000 Odyssey EX?
Next question "What was the trade difference between your 2000 Odyssey EX and your newer Odyssey? :confuse:

The Toyota dealership told me my 2006 Sienna LE with 2,300 miles now has a trade in value of $ 20,000. (Edmunds never has said what the actual selling price was for their 2005 Odyssey Touring). I think the TMV is very inaccurate.

thegraduate · April 2006

Purchased for $26k. I got $1500 off sticker with that trade in value on my Accord.

hansienna · April 2006

THANKS. Your dealer is not greedy like dealers in this area.

phillymom · April 2006

This is our first minivan and I am so confused..Please Help

1- We are now considering a slightly used minivan (I really liked a new 2005 Kia Sedona but the cargo area was too small). I have seen some Dodges with a second row bench and wanted some feedback on the pro/cons of 2nd row bench vs captains chairs. I have 2 children of my own and I babysit 1 child so I usually have 3 carsets in my car at all times

2-Does anyone know when Dodge/Chrysler started Stow n Go? Any other used models have a similar system. (I usually have a large double stroller in my cargo area so I need space for that and other things)

3-For any minivans that do not have stow n go how is cargo storage/space? What brand of non stow n go minivans have the best cargo/storage area's?

Thanks in advance

pachiefman · April 2006

We shopped carefully for a used van for 2 years. We quickly discovered that the Honda and Toyota vans are so superior to any other minivan, we felt we would be wasting our money to buy anything else.
The mechanical performance, repair frequency, interior fit and finish, power, comfort, interior room and design, handling, and styling-except for the Chrysler, are all noticeably better in these brands.
The problem was that most of the dealers, Carsense.com, and others wanted too much for the used vans. In one case, a 2 year old Odyssey with 13,000k was within $1900 of a new van. We didn't see the sense in that so we bought new.
If you haven't driven a Sienna or an Odyssey yet, do yourself a favor and do it before you decide on any van. They are SO kid friendly and safe, especially the new ones with air bags all around every seat.
Good luck.

Mike

P.S. We bought at Piazza Honda of Reading but they have a dealership in Philly as well.

masterpaul1 · April 2006

1- We are now considering a slightly used minivan (I really liked a new 2005 Kia Sedona but the cargo area was too small). I have seen some Dodges with a second row bench and wanted some feedback on the pro/cons of 2nd row bench vs captains chairs. I have 2 children of my own and I babysit 1 child so I usually have 3 carsets in my car at all times

Second Row Bench

Pros: No need to move the seat to access the third row. Wider space to access the third row. Can easily get to and see each child from front passengers seat.

Cons: Will need help to remove, if need extra space. No space between young children. Will have a hard time getting to third row from driver's side. (You will have to tilt the whole bench forward). The seat belt will have to be removed in order to access the third row from the passengers side if you are using a car seat with the vechicle seat belt.

Second Row Captain Chairs

Pros: Each seat is as comfortable as the two front seats. Both seats can recline. They can be tilted forward to access the third row from the side. You can access the third row through the middle from either the front seats or side sliding door. If you are using the vechicle's seat belt for car seats, you will not need to unlatch seat belt to access third row in most cases. Each seat is lighter then a bench seat, if needing to be removed and can be done by one person. Individual space for each child.

Cons: You will have to turn all the way around to see the child that is right behind you. The space is smaller when accessing the third row from the outside with the seat tilted forward and the person would have to get up.

2-Does anyone know when Dodge/Chrysler started Stow n Go? Any other used models have a similar system. (I usually have a large double stroller in my cargo area so I need space for that and other things)

Daimlerchrysler Stow n Go was invented for the model year 2005 to which they came on the market in 2004. The Nissan Quest has a second row captain seat storage system similar to Daimlerchrysler. The difference is that Daimlerchrysler seats fold flat into the floor, where as the Quest seats do not. If you go with a Daimlerchrysler minivan, make sure that it is the Long Wheel Base model and not the Short Wheel Base model.

3-For any minivans that do not have stow n go how is cargo storage/space? What brand of non stow n go minivans have the best cargo/storage area's?

For the most part, any of the big three: Daimlerchrysler, Honda and Toyota. You can't go wrong with space. Although they very on space, they are pretty close. All three should have more then enough space for the stroller behind the third row with room left over. One thing to point out though. Since you are going used, you will pay more for a used Honda and Toyota. Honda Ody. has the third row bench for model years 1999 thru 2004 that folds into the well in the cargo area. When the seat is up, you have more storage space. Toyota Sienna, has the 60/40 third row bench, not sure what the model years are, but has the well that works just like the Ody.'s. Daimlerchrysler, from model years 2001 to 2004 has a 50/50 third row bench that can not be folded into the floor. It can be tilted and tumbled forward for more cargo space. There is no well in the cargo area because it has the spare tire underneath this area outside the van. The one thing that can be had on the Daimlerchrysler that can't be had in the other vans, is a nifty rear cargo organizer. It can be raised to the level of both third row seat backs that have been lowered to form a complete flat surface when both the second and third row backs are folded down. It can be lowered to the floor. When raised, you can open the top part of it and have three separate bins to put your groceries You can leave the top closed and just place your stuff on top of it. You can even store stuff under it and it serves as a security cover for things that are on the floor in the cargo area.

By the way, we bought a used 01 DGC EX back in Sep. 2003 that had 37K on it for under $16,000. I love our van very much along with it's features and characteristics. We now have 73K and it has been very reliable. Hope this helps. :shades:

hansienna · April 2006

I have owned a 2002 T&C LX with the 2nd row bucket seats and 50/50 fold and tumble 3rd row and a 2006 Sienna LE with the 2nd row bucket seats and 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row.
The BEST choice with 3 children would be the Sienna CE or LE with 3 seats in 2nd row. The 3rd row could be folded into the floor either 40 %, 60%, or both split portions to give a very large area for the stroller.
A 2005/06 GC or T&C with 2nd row fold into the floor would be very convenient by folding the passenger side 2nd row bucket into the floor and putting 1 child in a child seat in other 2nd row bucket and 2 children in child seats in the 3rd row. The double stroller could easily be placed into the van after the 3 children were secured.
In early 2005, the Grand Caravan SE came with 2nd row bench that has 2 built in child seats and the 60/40 split fold into the floor rear seats. My sister just bought a nice used 2005 GC SE with this configuration about 10 days ago.
The DaimlerChrysler minivans are JUST as reliable as the Odyssey or Sienna and cost less because they have been trashed by "NOT recommended for purchase" CR.

strawboss1 · April 2006

These forums have been so helpful to me, as I have been shopping for a mini-van for a year. Finally ended up with a 2006 Chrysler T&C Limited, after much driving and comparing of Mini-vans. I don't hear much from my "segment", but I am a middle aged woman with two large dogs and a large, older husband who is used to driving big Lincoln Town Cars, but likes to be chauffered around by me if possible. I also cart elderly parents and elderly in-laws around on long and short trips (without dogs). We have always been loyal to FoMoCo, and I seriously looked at the Mercury Monterey (ok, I heard those chuckles out there) and the Honda Ody. Sienna was just not a good value to me, the dealer couldn't get any of the Quests started and their reliability worried me, and my dogs couldn't get to the 3rd row/back of the Buick without breaking the center console ( 2nd row seats don't fold forward with the side airbags, nor do they fold flat), and the A/C can't be controlled from the back by the passengers. All the vans rode nicely, had plenty of pep, nice seats, and good safety features. I ultimately bought the T&C for: Stow and Go (does anyone out there take their dogs and luggage anywhere? I love the flat surface after putting the 2nd row seats down-the dogs can actually lay down and stretch out), the power passenger seat (not available in the Honda). I really wanted to buy the Merc, as it has a lot of safety features (side airbags and side curtain airbags, stability control, did great in the insurance crash tests), but the 2nd row seats were low (hard for the older folks to get out of), and the lack of easy removal of the 2nd row seats tilted my decision to the Chrysler. The Honda had the most comfortable seats, but there was no easy removal of the 2nd row seats, no power passenger seat available, and very little legroom in the 3rd row. My 80 yr old m-i-l tested all the second and third row seats for me, and with one Stow and Go seat folded down into the floor, the third row seat was the easiest to get into. Also, the 2nd row seats sit a little higher and are easier to get in and out of. I know this isn't "real world" for people with young kids that can scramble to the back, but for this "elderly" segment, the Chrysler just worked the best. The perfect van would be Mercury's safety and huge list of standard bells and whistles, Chrysler's Stow N Go, Honda's comfortable seats, and engine and drivetrain. I am happy with my choice so far (well, I did just buy it today!), and sympathize with the shoppers out there, as there is no perfect van YET! I hope this helps anybody out there shopping for the same things I was shopping for.

jc9799 · April 2006

Congrats on the new purchase. It sounds like you really did your homework. The T&C (which I do like, BTW), wouldn't be my first choice, but it seems to fit you just right.

Vic

jc9799 · April 2006

Bench vs. Captain Chairs:

One of the nice features with the MPV (also previous generation Ody?) is that that the 2nd row can slide into a bench or separate into captains chairs.

It makes no difference for my 6 or 4 year old to reach the 3rd row in either configuration, but it's much easier for an adult to reach the 3rd row with the 2nd row as a bench. We also flip the right seatback forward.

How old are your kids and the one you babysit? If you have to strap a child in a 5 pt restraint seat in the 3rd row, I'd guess the bench seat would give you better access. It'd be different if the child in the back is using a booster and can buckle him/herself in.

Of course, never, ever underestimate the importance of having extra space between 2 kids in the car. Therefore, at least for me, advantage captains chairs.

Have you also considered an MPV? It's smaller than the GC/Ody/Sienna class so storage may be an issue. I don't know how it compares with the 05 Sedona in that regard.

Good luck,
Vic

phillymom · April 2006

How old are your kids and the one you babysit?

I have a 4yo, 2yo and I babysit a 1yo
Cargo space is a must for me since sometimes I have a large bulky double stroller

Thanks for all the great feedback

hansienna · April 2006

EXCELLENT comparison which vividly explains why each minivan has an appeal to different people.

I agree that Odyssey has the most comfortable seats for all 7 people in the minivan. Chrysler Stow 'N Go is just right for others, and so on.
There is NO one minivan which has every one of the best features .

artgpo · April 2006

We have some big (meaning tall) people in the family and circle of friends who have commented on the generous legroom in our Odyssey's third row. This is our seventh minivan and it is certainly the most roomy.

The reason there are many choices is because there are many opinions. Enjoy your new ride.

thegraduate · April 2006

Nope, I agree with you. I think here in the south they aren't as pushy as other areas.

hansienna · April 2006

Your Odyssey has a 3.5L. Shouldn't the Sienna have an engine the same size (or power) as the Odyssey?
My 2002 T&C LX 3.3L has a 3.3L but not as powerful as the 3.3L in the Sienna (which is not as powerful as the 3.5L in the Odyssey). The weaker 3.3L in the T&C has enough power for any place I have driven...but the extra power of the Sienna 3.3L with 5 speed AT is even better - especially since the Sienna is getting better gas mileage on the road than the T&C LX.

jchan2 · April 2006

Well it should, but while some people might need the extra power of the Odyssey, I don't, and since the Sienna is more efficient than my current Odyssey, I wouldn't mind the loss of power. (The current Odyssey gets even better mileage with a bigger engine, but well, I just prefer the Sienna) I'm attracted to the Sienna mainly for its plush interior and the power folding third row of the Limited (although I doubt I'd be using that feature often)

I'm basically sitting around waiting for some big Sienna incentives to materialize so I can get a great deal...

phillymom · April 2006

We are looking at a certified used 2003 with 31,500 miles

Any feedback on this year/model?

Thanks

thegraduate · April 2006

What's the asking price?

phillymom · April 2006

$15,900

tkcolorado · April 2006

I have a very limited budget and want to purchase a minivan. I need something that is at or under $10,000 and need something with lower mileage (around 60k). I have found that Toyotas and Hondas are not in this price range at all (even ones that are old and have TONS of miles, ridiculous really, and I don't care for them anyway beacuse the seats and interiors are not plush they are to me at least uncomfortable. They remind me of my Geo Tracker from 1993).

Anyway, I have found several models including Kia's, Dodge, Chryslers, and GM's line (Montana,Venture, and Silhouette). With around 50-60k miles the dealerships seem to be asking around 8-9k. What do you all think about these models and which one would you purchase. I have to make this last as long as possible as I am on a very tight budget (single mom, child with disability).

Thanks much

jchan2 · April 2006

I would get either the Chrysler/Dodge or the Kia. The Venture doesn't have a decent safety score from the IIHS and I wouldn't feel safe driving it.

Amongst the 2 I'd lean more towards the Chrysler but I'm sure others here would definitely get a Kia.

strawboss1 · April 2006

I also wouldn't rule out a Ford, if one is available. Very safe as far as crash tests, and they seem to be very (unusually) reasonable as far as price. I've seen many in ads around here (Chicagolnad) of 2001 and above for under $10K. Just a thought.

442dude · April 2006

I really don't follow this thread much but I'm curious...

Is there anyone here who is actually looking to buy a minivan or are you all mostly just throwing facts at each other?

Just wondering.... :shades:

jchan2 · April 2006

I forgot about the Ford. Those can be good deals.

I'd also look into a Mercury Villager/Nissan Quest...

jchan2 · April 2006

Look into a Mazda MPV, preferably a newer one. (When did Mazda redesign it?)

tkcolorado · April 2006

"I also wouldn't rule out a Ford, if one is available"

I have not been impressed with the reviews of the Fords, I have also never been a fan of Fords (raised a GM family, im doomed, lol).

sebring95 · April 2006

IMHO, the Dodge vans are the winner when shopping for a used bargain that will last and be inexpensive to operate. You may want to skip on the option and keep it basic to ensure cheap/reliable operation. A power slider may be important to you with a disabled child, but keep in mind that may require extra maintenance down the road. Skip if if you really don't need it.

The GM vans from the vintage you're shopping should be avoided IMHO. Poor safety, marginal reliability, and not any better of a bargain than the much better Dodge. I usually prefer GM over Dodge/Ford as well, but they're not competitive in the minivan market. The Honda/Toyota attract a more affluent crowd and are not great values used. I love my newer Ody, but wouldn't buy a used one if I was in your shoes.

97xpresso · April 2006

I would definetly not buy a used Kia. The warranty is shortened for subsequent owners, and the gas MPG is horrendous. I'd lean towards a DC minivan or anything but a used Kia.

artgpo · April 2006

Here is the latest from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety:

"The best-performing minivan was the Kia Sedona which also earned an overall "Gold Top Safety Pick" rating.

The Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna and Nissan Quest minivans all earned "Good" ratings for front and side impact protection. The Odyssey earned a "Marginal" rating for whiplash protection while the Sienna and Quest were given "Poor" ratings.

The worst-performing minivans in these safety tests were the Dodge Caravan. the closely related Chrysler Town & Country and the Mazda MPV. Those minivans received "Acceptable" ratings for front impact protection and "Poor" ratings for side impact when tested without head-protecting side impact airbags. When tested with head protecting side impact airbags, the Caravan and Town & Country received "Acceptable" ratings for side impact protection. The Mazda MPV was not tested with side airbags."

cpsdarren · April 2006

Excellent results for the Sedona. Keep in mind this applies to the new 2006 model.

thegraduate · April 2006

Bluebook on it in my area (Southeast US) is $16,900; assuming a perfect example, standard features only, EX trim level, and 31,500 miles. Offer $15,000 and see what happens. Sounds like a screaming deal!

sebring95 · April 2006

I would think you could do better than that. I see used T&C's all the time in the paper for cheaper than that. This morning at the Chrysler/Toyota/Honda dealer: '05 T&C Touring with 30k miles for $14,995.

phillymom · April 2006

I have someone in the family who sells cars (new and used) and they said $15,900 is too high for a 2003 T&C...should be more like 12K. I guess it cannot hurt to put in an offer and see what they say :confuse:

hansienna · April 2006

Could you provide the link to support these claims?

edklein · April 2006

I'm probably going to be getting a minivan within two years, and I must confess I've been really dissapointed in both Honda and Toyota in particular in terms of audio. It looks like it's too bad that BMW doesn't offer a minivan 'cause this is what I really want:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=110017

iPODs are not new and there are millions of us out there. I don't listen to the radio anymore and have no interest in paying for something like XM or Sirius (those two are going to die a slow painful death, just ask Howard Stern) or even a 6 CD Changer for that matter.

When are the makers going to catch up to the market?

sambojoho1 · April 2006

I have the link for the Sedona crash test results. It would appear that the Kia is the safest minivan out there, as it is the only one to earn the "Gold" rating. I know where my money is going!!

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr041606.html

mrblonde49 · April 2006

Aux input works fine for most people. No one has gotten an integrated input the right way, though. Maybe this one will. It will take awhile for it to trickle down into more cars.

And what do you mean with this?
"I don't listen to the radio anymore and have no interest in paying for something like XM or Sirius (those two are going to die a slow painful death, just ask Howard Stern)"

Howard brought the Sirius subscriber base from 600K to 4 million in 18 months since he hade his announcement. He's doing just fine, and satelite will now be available in many more new cars as the are rolled out. Combined, Sirius and XM have 10 million customers. They may merge, but they aren't going anywhere. Where are you getting your information on the slow painful death?

I have integrated Sirius and an aux input for my Zen Vision:M (like and ipod video, but much better). Covers all the bases

sebring95 · April 2006

I'm quite happy with XM. I don't really have time to sit around looking for new music to download. I thought about sticking a kid on payroll to transfer all my CD's and then download anything he thought I'd like. I'll just stick with the $12 a month.

hansienna · April 2006

Congratulations to Kia for the crash test results of the 2006 Sedona.
Looks like I better avoid having someone rear end my 2006 Sienna.

How long before the Sedona is considered a viable choice to people like myself who love our DC and Sienna minivans and considered buying the Odyssey? (Mazda MPV and Caravan the choice for people wanting a smaller, also desireable minivan).

sambojoho1 · April 2006

I would say that the Sedona is already a viable alternative to the DC or Toyota. I am going to buy one over the Sienna and Odyssey to replace my 99 Odyssey. See the following review:

http://www.newcartestdrive.com/review-intro.cfm?Vehicle=2006_Kia_Sedona&ReviewID- =1910

Also, a newer smaller version of the Sedona will be available later this year for the MPV and Caravan fans.

cpsdarren · April 2006

Of all the crash test results, the IIHS rear test is the least impressive. It doesn't actually crash test a vehicle, only a seating structure. Also, it presumes a seating position and occupant size. If you tend to adjust your seat recline and headrest position carefully to your body, you may well be much safer than the test indicates. The opposite is also true...

Even so, kudos to Kia for having active head restraints standard, along with standard side curtain airbags and standard stability control. If they'd have had a crash notification system and a rollover deployment system on the side curtain airbags, it would have been just about perfect on paper for crash protection.

All in all, minivans like the 2006 Sedona, Sienna, Odyssey and Quest are among the safest vehicles on the road. You can't really go wrong with any of them. Most other minivans are probably above average for overall safety, too.

jchan2 · April 2006

I would probably consider one to replace my Odyssey if either it or the Entourage offered DVD Navigation and a backup camera.

Otherwise it's back to the Sienna, where I'll cross my fingers and hope nobody slams me in the rear end...

97xpresso · April 2006

While I never said anything good about Kia especially the Sedona, The 2006 looks like a great improvement over the 2005. That is why there are still so many new 2005's un-sold on the dealers lots. I would still give the 2006 a year to see what if any problems develop. Does it get more than 16 MPG?

97xpresso · April 2006

It's a good thing when you don't HAVE to purchase a vehicle right away. It gives you the upper hand. I would offer them an out-the-door price of $14,000 firm, and walk away if they balk. Like others have said, there are many more deals out there. $15900 with taxes and tags would come close to $17,000! That's why I would only offer an "out-the-door" price. Don't be afraid to walk, chances are they'll call you back.

phillymom · April 2006

Does the amount of trade they are offering me make a difference? KBB puts my trade between $8,000-$10,500

They keep giving me more for my trade (went from $9,600 to $10,400) where others have offered me $9K or under. But they still are not moving on the asking price of $15,999

hansienna · April 2006

YES...a VERY BIG difference .

If they increase the amount offered for your trade-in, that is the same as a low trade in value and a reduction of the selling price of the newer vehicle.
ALWAYS cosider both the trade-in of the old vehicle and the selling price of the newer vehicle.

philliplc · April 2006

unlike the IIHS, the NHSTA lists not only their star ratings but also the actual numbers generated by their crash tests, including criteria not used for their star ratings. if you compare all the numbers the 05 sedona actually does better than the 06 in their frontal test. also 06 oddy does at least slightly, if not significantly better than 06 sedona or sienna in most categories.

they are all relatively safe, but i wouldn't decide on the sedona just because it got an IIHS gold rating (which as others indicated is just a function of it having active headrests). chances are the oddy might do slightly better in the majority of real world crashes.

http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/

philliplc · April 2006

for comparison i see 80k power train certified 05 LX's (rental fleet returns) with stow-n-go advertised weekly for $15k or less (although presumably without power sliding door and traction control which that EX should have).

cpsdarren · April 2006

The NHTSA has correlated their ratings to actual risk of fatalities. While there is a range of injury measures within each star rating, it is more difficult to say if they are significant or not.

Similarly, the IIHS has done the same type of correlations using 3 groupings, Good (including Best Pick), Acceptable/Marginal and Poor. You can also nitpick IIHS results by looking at the individual scores for each injury or intrusion measure ( http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=80&type=f ). The previous generation Sienna remains one of the best frontal performers the IIHS has ever tested, but it's impossible to say how much safer it really is than any other minivan with a "Good" frontal rating.

I wouldn't buy any vehicle just because of good IIHS ratings, either. I'd also insist on top NHTSA star ratings, standard safety features like stability control and side curtain airbags as well as relatively good handling and braking characteristics. I happened to choose the Odyssey for various reasons (safety being very important), but an appropriately equipped 2006 Sedona, Quest or Sienna would have been acceptable for safety, also.

www.informedforlife.org is a good site that incorporates many of these ratings into one risk factor that can be compared over all vehicles. They have not yet updated the 2006 Sedona, however. For safety, almost any vehicle on the first page of their list in rank order would be a very good choice, along with many on the second page, too.

neile457 · April 2006

I am looking in the $8000 price range, and have looked at two Siennas (98 and 99), liked both, but both had rattling doors. I have had good luck with DC vans, and am looking at a 2003 Caravan SXT for 8500. The Sienna's had 95000 and 65000 miles respectively, the Caravan 65000. If I can find a Sienna without rattling doors (seems like a common issue), I will probably get it.

Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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