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Comments
Thanks for all the help. I know where to look for advice next time we buy a car.
I doubt they will ever be needed and think I goofed buying the Sienna as there are more things I like on my 2002 Chrysler T&C LX than on the 2006 Sienna LE.
The Odyssey and Sienna may have more safety features but the Chrysler minivans have more comfort and convenience items that make the minivan enjoyable to drive...and for a lower actual selling price. :shades:
I've had 2 ABS-inducing panic stops so far in my new Accord, and wouldn't dare buy a car without that feature, and now that curtain bags are offered by nearly everyone, it seems like I'd be too cheap not to get them; you can bet they'll be standard, as well as VSA, on the revamped DCX vans. If they aren't, then Chrysler is no better than Ford IMO(the Fusion still has an ABS OPTION on its Fusion sedan...seems like it'd be easier to make that standard).
ABS was standard in 1988 Chevy pickups and 1990 Chevy Astros. Many automobile insurance companies gave an insurance with ABS back in the late 80's and early 90's but not longer do because they don't believe ABS has any value to prevent wrecks.
I know this is going to sound like I made this part up, but I was driving my 1996 today when a storm came through (it hasnt rained in awhile, so roads were SLICK)...I skidded to the point I had to pump my brakes to stop at a red light, and ended up having to back up b/c i was in the middle of the intersection. I wasn't speeding (30-35 in a 35 zone, with moderate rain; just keeping up with traffic), but the light changed, i hit the brakes, and nothing happened...Nothing was in front of me, thank the good Lord for that.
I think I hate my new tires, too...Goodyear Integrity.
I think Honda/Kia/Hyundai are on the right track with making these features standard on all models (base and higher)..
If you only want to spend $10-15,000, look for a well maintained 2005 or 2004 Sedona with low miles and plenty of warranty left. You can buy them cheaply because lots of them were sold brand new for many (5-8) $thousands under invoice. You should be able to find many to choose from.
Drive it for a year and then sell it privately after you locate a 2006 used or a new 2006 or 2007 which has huge rebates. You won't lose much money at all when you sell your used one if you buy it for a good price to begin with.
That said, buying new cars is terribly wasteful unless you do get those huge discounts not available on competitors.
Buying new to us was a no-brainer...
However buying a 1-2 year old Kia is a completely different story
Be careful though, the 10/100K warranty is not transferable...
Did you mean to say more expensive there? Or maybe you meant to say used instead of new in that quoted section?
Yeah, I know Honda dealers love to make a lot of money on their sales, especially certified used ones. The whole CPO thing is a big marketing gimmick aimed at suckers to boost dealer profits even more on used cars. I think they make tons more on used car sales than on new cars. Most dealers do.
Only once in 60 cars have I ever bought used from a dealer. The used prices usually are just not attractive at a dealership.
In some states, if you buy used at a dealer you have to pay sales tax but if you buy used from a private party there is no sales tax. That can make a huge difference favoring private used sales. I assumed you'd realize I meant to buy used privately as well as sell privately. Private parties don't need to make a profit. Dealers always want a profit.
Reread my post. I was specifically talking about Sedonas, not Hondas. One big reason is that transferable 'bumper to bumper' 5 year, 60,000 miles warranty. Even a used Sedona can have a longer warranty than a new Honda.
The beauty of a used Sedona from a private party, like I said before, is that the price can be very low because of the low purchase prices lots of those vans went for when new. And the low re-sale value helps you out when buying used.
I was suggesting the used low mileage, long warranty Sedona now as a temporary van until you can make a good deal next year on a new or used '06 or '07.
And I'll stick by my statement, buying new cars is terribly wasteful unless you do get those huge discounts not available on competitors. Even Hondas, when purchased new, depreciate more quickly in the first year than later years.
Don't buy used from a dealer.
I also agreed that a used Kia/GM/DCX and a used Honda/Toyota are going to have different depreciation levels.
As for getting the certified warranty, let me state that I am somebody who never buys an extended warranty, but I also would be leery in buying something that only has 1 year or so left on the warranty.
When I searched for a used 05/06 Odyssey, I looked in the Washington Post, Cars.com, and Autotrader.com. Even the private sellers wanted only about 1-2K less than a new Odyssey (in some cases they wanted more!). In Virginia, you have to pay tax on private vehicle sales, so there was no benefit there.
I just did not see the benefit in buying a used van for 2K less than a brand new one when you add in the mileage, warranty, and the fact that you have no real good idea on how the vehicle was maintained vs buying a new one.
I agree with you though, you can save a ton of money on a slightly used vehicle that normally depreciates quickly (such as a Kia/GM/DCX/Ford van)...
I agree with him that the Kia is a great value, but this is from the same guy who recommends folks buy a Chevy Malibu over a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord...
If people are going to buy a minivan based on reviews and awards alone, then there would be nothing on the road but Honda Odysseys...
My advice is to get the minivan that meets your needs, and wants within your budget. For many folks, the Kia is a great minivan for the money (especially when they start selling for 3-4K under invoice)..
Another thing to consider. You usually can get a lower financing rate buying new than you can get buying used. So you should think about that also if the price is close between new and used.
The Hyundai Entourage minivan is a direct descendant of the Hyundai Excel. :shades:
Yep.
And the Sienna is made by the same company that brought the exciting Toyota Echo to the USA.
picky picky picky.....
For some strange reason, I'm wondering what kind of minivan Yugo could produce.
Uh, on second thought, maybe I shouldn't.....
Thanks for any advice
ALL minivans now must include the split 3rd row fold into the floor introduced by Toyota in the 2004 Sienna to be competitive.
The Power Liftgate introduced by Chrysler in 2001 models was ridiculed by others...but now the others also brag about their power liftgate (either standard or optional).
When will all minivan makers copy Chrysler's flat fold into the floor 2nd row seats?
Nissan for 2008 I've heard. Stow N Go won't be easy to implement without a major chasis redesigns. Will Honda, which uses the same basic platform for Oddy, Ridgeline, MDX and Pilot be able to redesign it for Stow N Go while still using it for the others? It won't be easy for the competition. Will Toyota/Honda/Hyundai which sell far fewer minivans make the investment?
Stay Tuned
Note that the DCX Windsor plant tied Toyota for second place even!!
Toyota motor company with # 2 and # 4 rate much higher than ANY company. Porsche may be # 1, but look at the parent company Volkswagen rated 35 out of 37.
Glad to see Chrysler doing so well.
Second. is safety features.
Third, is MPG's. This is one feature that needs improving. What about a diesel?
Van
1. Chrysler Town & Country
2. GMC Savana
3. Dodge Caravan
What about a hybrid minivan? I claim ignorance on this topic (haven't searched for news stories). Anyone here have any insights? Where would the batteries go?
Bob Lutz succinctly stated how I feel about the Odyssey and Sienna controls. I much prefer DaimlerChrysler controls where the stereo has many controls compared to my Sienna where I have to scroll through the entire menu to adjust bass, treble, balance, fade, etc. Same thing with other controls.
My 02 T&C LX has 3 separate controls on the dash for the rear wiper and washer with a separate stalk for the front wiper and washer on the steering column while the Sienna puts the controls for the rear wiper/washer on the same stalk as the front wipers/washers.
The 02 T&C has a separate control for front fan speed plus power on/off with a separate control for turning A/C on and another separate control for recycling the air.
The Sienna temperature control knob turns on A/C and recycle when it is turned to the extreme left. The recycling can be turned off by turning the knob back to the right but to turn off A/C I must depress another button.
DaimlerChrysler design is superior to that of either the Sienna or Odyssey...but unfortunately the fine folks of Consumer Reports do not seem to be able to learn the more completely controlled DC system so they bad mouth DC for having "confusing controls". :shades:
My 06 Odyssey already has storage in the second row under the floor, and we have not even used it yet. For me, I do not see the value in adding even more storage under the floor unless it did not sacrifice seat comfort....
As for the wiper controls, I prefer having them all on one stalk (maybe because all of my other vehicles have been setup that way).
I love the automatic climate control in our Odyssey. I think it has the perfect layout, and has separate controls for fan speed, recycle, separate controls for each passenger, and separate controls for the second row.
So I found a Toyota Sienna. It is a 98 and has 54,000 miles, its an XLE. They are asking 12,995 (over edmunds so some negotiations are needed there, edmunds lists the car in clean condition at 10,890). Its a retail sale.
Anyway, here is the part I need some help with. The carfax report lists two owners (not ideal, but..). The first owner it was a lease vehicle in California and Wyoming. The second ower was in Colorado ( here were I live).
I have read some bad things about California cars and their emissions equipment being different and more expensive to repair. Is this something I should be concerned with, or should it not be a big deal???
The other question is pertaining to the sludge issue. This car has no service records at all with it. Toyota said they showed nothing in their records on the car at all (other than factory installed options ) and just said that if the car should get sludge Toyota deals with the issues on a case by case basis and that they would require service records on the car in order to complete any repairs with reimbursement on the issue. I asked if there was a mileage limit and the person really didn't say much, just the above statement again (rude person too). Should I use this to my advantage in negotiating a deal, or will this have no impact on the sale price of the car???
Im really afraid of getting a sludge monster, especially with such low miles on it. It just hasn't had the chance to be sludged yet, lol. What would you guys be looking at during an inspection (and yes it will go to a mechanic)?
I remember when evaluating the Dodge, Honda and Toyota minivan, the tester at CR said the Dodge controls were (busy). What in the heck did he mean by that? I like the way Dodge has them set up. I forgot, they are for Asian cars and vans.
My 06 Odyssey already has storage in the second row under the floor, and we have not even used it yet. For me, I do not see the value in adding even more storage under the floor unless it did not sacrifice seat comfort....
Chrysler middle seats are firmer that's true. Uncomfortable? not a bit. If you think your under floor space that Honda gives you is enough and don't even use that, you chose the right van. That sure isn't my case. I use all the space I can get in my van. But I also use it for a lot more than seating people. It's also a working van.
http://www.carspace.com/marine2
Each of us prefers the setup that we have been used to. Maybe I will like all controls on one stalk if I can ever get used to this method. :shades:
Some people like cushy seats but truly comfortable seats for long trips are firmer like that found on many German luxury cars that support better.
Firm and supportive are not necessarily synonymous. Two flat slabs of rock at right angles are very firm, but neither supportive nor comfortable.
Firm and supportive are not necessarily synonymous. Two flat slabs of rock at right angles are very firm, but neither supportive nor comfortable.
I hope your not even trying to suggest the seats in the Dodge/Chrysler are like that.
If you have seen my web sight, my Sister parked her black 2006 Chrysler next to mine. She came out here with her husband, my brother and her son from Ohio. Over 4,000 mile trip up and back with no complaints of those seats at all. It seems the only ones that complain they are uncomfortable are the ones that don't own a Chrysler/Dodge.