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I haven't seen any reports that side curtain airbags pose any risk to youngsters. Even if they do - bear in mind that these are triggered in side impacts where there is precious little mass in your vehicle to absorb the forces of a crash. If you get broadsided by a Tahoe going 40 mph it seems to me that you should want (and need) anything that might less their chance of severe injury.
The Sienna I am not so sure but I'm pretty sure that side curtain airbags were available in LE, XLE, and XLE Limited trims from 2004-2005 depending on option package, and side curtain airbags are now standard across the board from 2006 onward.
In regards to the third row seat moving forward, you'll have to look into a 1993-2002 Nissan Quest or Mercury Villager, 2001-2004 Dodge Grand Caravan, or the Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country.
I know that you can put the third row in the second row in the Chevrolet Venture, but the safety record of that car is not exactly admirable.
I would definitely get as much airbag protection as possible- the curtains will help in a side impact accident with something like a Tahoe or Expedition. If you can't afford to get a used Sienna or Odyssey with curtain airbags, then definitely get driver and passenger side airbags.
The curtains should be safe for children- I haven't heard anything to the contrary and I wouldn't hesitate to put my kids in the backseat of a car with curtain airbags.
Good Luck
There are a few other very minor changes (such as extra cupholders in the 2002-2004 models) but the big changes I mentioned above.
1999-2001
2002-2004
You can notice the 2002-2004 has amber turn signals (the 2001 has all red taillamps/signals, and the 2002-2004 has updated wheels and a bolder grille as well.
Here is the leather interior.
May I suggest reading the comparo of the 2004 Odyssey here on Edmunds, found here - 2004 Odyssey Comparison
cpsdarren, "Child Car Seats That Fit" #111, 15 Sep 2006 4:20 pm
For models with no rear air conditioning, I understand that there will be only one control knob but will there be any other ac/heat vents except the ones in the dashboard?
Thanks!
After reading some positive reviews, decided to take a look at Kia Sedona before pulling trigger on an Ody. Found the Kia to be very close in performance to the Ody (= power and safety features and Ody handling/ride was only slightly better) but the Kia price was way below anything I could get on the Ody LX. Best Ody LX price I got was $22,900 and ended up buying the Sedona LX for $17,550 before tax, title and license. The Sedona LX has $3000 rebate and I qualified for an additional $1000 competitor rebate (currently own Chrysler Town and Country).
Put ~ 300 miles on the Sedona so far and I'm very pleased. For those looking for a minivan right now, the Kia Sedona LX is a great value that is tough to pass up.
Here in southern Wisconsin, the Fords are actually about $1,500-$2,000 less with the DGC equipped with rear stow-and-go bend seat. Starting dealer used prices of $13,000 (Ford) vs. $15,000 (Dodge).
I've read about the brake and transmission issues with the Ford, but are they really common enough to warrant an extra $2k for the Dodge equivalent?
I think the Dodge is just a better and obviously more desirable vehicle, hence the price. Same reason the Honda still brings top-dollar even though they have a shady transmission history. More people are willing to pay for certain things... I paid for the performance/handling/features of the Ody and could care less about reliability. If I was shopping for a used bargain...Dodge Caravan hands down. I wouldn't even shop the Ford (I've had rentals and that was enough...).
My more expensive Sienna LE does NOT have the luxury car feature of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger that is standard equipment on the Caravan SXT or that was on my 2002 T&C LX....and my wife and I will have to get rid of our 2006 Sienna LE to get a minivan with this feature.
Then again, I've never driven one so I couldn't draw final conclusions, but I wouldn't just write it off.
I'd say give it a shot, especially if you're going used.
I was stunned by it's good exterior & interior looks, it's safety features and the price. :shades:
It is a quite compact, about the size of a Ford Escape, but seemed very spacious inside much more than the Escape. The seats were very comfortable with a great interiour layout. Safety wise it come standard with traction control, ABS, Electronic Stabity control, 6 air bags. With a 2.4L engine it was rated at 22 city & 29 highway and price in the mid $18K range.
It is not on Kia's website & seems to be all but invisible to Google. Does anyone know anything about this rig or was I dreaming?
I had not heard of this model & apparently the is very little info on the US model (tried Goggle). After some hunting I discovered that this car is marketed as the "Carens" in the UK. It is available there with a 2.0 gas or diesel engine. UK reviews, while not bad, are lukewarm when compared to the Mazda5 and the comparable Renault and Vauxal models. Hard not to envy the European's wide selection choices of efficient vehicles! Time will tell how well it can compete in the US.
It does look like a wagon.
I like the Rondo, clean lines, comfortable, functional, spacious - winner!!
Although I'd probably avoid getting a brand new one though as the depreciation on those will be STEEP!
Strange... Haven't seen any marketing material on the Rondo, but maybe I'll stumble into it at NAIAS (if I go). Sounds like it has good proportions.
Which minivans are # 2, 3, and 4? :confuse:
What time period? For 1/6 - 6/6
Dodge Caravan/Grand Carvan - 103,876
Honda Odyssey - 72,941
Chrysler Town & Country - 68,943
Toyota Sienna - 67,404
Chrysler Pacifica - 35,952
Ford Freestar - 29,569
Ford Freestyle - 28,634
Kia Sedona - 26,215
Chevrolet Uplander - 25,610
Nissan Quest - 12,186
Mercedes-Benz R-Class - 8,227
Mazda5 - 7,806
Mazda MPV - 5,939
Buick Terraza - 5,339
Mercury Monterrey - 1,811
Hyundai Entourage - 1,194 (went on sale May 2006)
Interesting that
- Dodge is still #1
- Dodge + Chrysler > Honda + Toyota
- Dodge Caravan + Town & Country + Pacifica > Honda + Toyota + Ford
- Pacifica + Freestyle (large crossovers) together are within 3,000 units of Honda. We all know the Caravan/Grand Caravan is THE MOST POPULAR, BEST SELLING minivan.
Which minivans are # 2, 3, and 4?
Looks like GM is the BIGGEST LOSER while Honda and Toyota minivan sales increased significantly after they made the Odyssey and Sienna the same size as the long time sales leading Grand Caravan. :shades:
They did another one. Honda wins. Though it seems the margin has a lot to do with the editors subjective feelings, if you read the scoring. Kia actually won in performance and destroyed them all on price. I was impressed that they had best braking. The age of the DCX products is showing - they are a good value but lack lots of features that everyone else has. The new design will very welcomed. Sienna also will welcome the bigger engine out soon. I think the Sedona/Entourage are a great value now. Almost bought a loaded Sedona last week that was being driven by the owner's wife (3K miles) but dealer didn't think he should go down more than a few hundred below invoice. They had 0% which was key. There are basicaly no loaded Sedonas left, and the 07's aren't out yet. We may look at the Entourage soon f they increase incentives. Our 04 T&C runs perfectly fine, one minor issue in almost 3 years (front sway bar) but I am starting to think that we should get the airbags, stability control, etc
Maybe the MPV would work for you? A 2001 MPV LX (mid-level trim), with 70,000 miles, and in good condition, should be between $7,000 and $8,000.
Caravan/GC/T&C combined: 407,570
Honda Odyssey 174,275
Toyota Sienna 161,380
Nissan Quest 40,357
Interesting that the combined DaimlerChrysler minivan sales were 31,558 MORE than combined Odyssey, Sienna, and Quest.
True, DaimlerChrysler does not have the monopoly on minivan sales it held for decades but the DC minivans are still the MOST WANTED by more people than the combined sales of the 2 closest competitors. :shades:
The downside of roll down 2nd row windows is the noise from air turbulence at highway speeds. These roll down windows are NOT flush with the side of the van like the rear windows of the DaimlerChrysler minivans and are a source or road noise...down or up.
IF you never sit in the 2nd or 3rd row, the noise would not bother you. :P
Do you know of any more vans older than Sienna that have roll-down sliding door windows?
Why can't Edmunds and CR quote the actual price of each vehicle they test instead of MSRP? Why did they test an AWD 2006 Sienna Limited and then write that it was too expensive? Why didn't they mention the lack of fold into the floor 2nd row seats of the beloved Odyssey, Sedona, and Sienna? :confuse:
When they weigh subjective areas very heavily, they can distort the entire conclusions to fit the biased, pre-conceived decision. :lemon:
I was duped by the Edmunds test report of the 2004 Sienna and now own an inferior minivan that is NOT as enjoyable as was my 2002 T&C LX.
After the glowing reports about the Odyssey, I considered buying one until I recently saw my nephew's 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth) and was appalled at the grimy, unsightly front door armrests made of cloth. My 4 year old T&C LX front door armrests never looked as ugly as those of the 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth). :sick:
Second - "problems are swept under the rug"? Edmunds didn't have any problems (that I can tell) with the tester used in the comparison test. And after ONE ENTIRE YEAR with their long-term Odyssey Touring, the only 'problem' was a slow air leak in one tire.
Do you have any evidence that they had other problems which they 'swept under the rug' or are you just making stuff up?
"When they weigh subjective areas very heavily, they can distort the entire conclusions to fit the biased, pre-conceived decision."
Has it occurred to you that there may be a REASON they have a pre-conceived notion regarding these minivans? Afterall, they've had LOTS of exposure to several of these vans (with long-term tests of the Odyssey, Sienna AND the T&C).
Do you have reason to believe that if they only used OBJECTIVE measures that the results would have been different? Should they simply IGNORE things like steering/braking feel, material quality, ride, and appearance? Then you'd probably complain that they shouldn't put so much weight on things like acceleration #'s and roadholding #'s. Maybe the ENTIRE test should have simply been a comparison of under-floor storage volumes....
Agree that they should have compared the vehicles based on TMV rather than MSRP. Hey, and a further OBJECTIVE measurement might be then comparing the % of depreciation after 2 years and after 4 years.
Now look at the now closed Honda Ody:Problems and Solutions Discussion... and you will see many of the problems noted above. As well as declining reliability reported in auto mags i.e Consumer Reports. The norm of problems seems more in line with Motor Trends publication than Edmunds. So considering the pre-coneived ideas(bias) many testers take with them into these long-term tests... it is understandable that many problems may be overlooked, or "swept under the rug".
Yes. That's why it's called a "Problems and Solutions" discussion. Although some of the items reported by MT (no radio reception) have NOT been reported in the P&S board, and one of the 'problems' (excessive engine braking when manually downshifting to 2nd) is simply a trait of a high-compression engine.
"As well as declining reliability reported in auto mags i.e Consumer Reports."
Declining reliability compared to previous edition Odyssey's or declining compared to other makes? And does DECLINING = below average? (If the industry average for minivans is 10 problems/100 vehicles, and the Odyssey goes from 4/100 in 2004 to 6/100 in 2005, that is both "declining" and still "above average").
Let me be clear: when I state the "norm" for Odysseys, I mean what the average buyer should EXPECT for Odysseys. If the industry average is 10 problems/100 vehicles and the Odyssey is at (for instance) 12 problems/100 vehicles, then that means that AT LEAST 88 vehicles out of 100 will have ZERO problems.
Now, I don't know what the industry average is for minivans in general. I don't know what the #'s shake out at for Odysseys's (or Sienna's/DCX/etc.) But I DO know that the "norm" for Odyssey's is NOT what was reported by MT. Do you have evidence that one CAN BANK ON having at least 5 problems with their new Odyssey?
I'll submit (again) that what MT experienced was NOT the "norm" (in other words, their experience is NOT what one would expect). I think the "norm" is more in line with what Edmunds found out with their long-term tester (slow leak in one tire) or what I or socalawd, or any number of OTHER Odyssey owners who generally contibute to this forum have found; satisfaction.
"So considering the pre-coneived ideas(bias) many testers take with them into these long-term tests... it is understandable that many problems may be overlooked, or "swept under the rug"."
Baloney. Are you saying that Edmund's HAD other problems with their long-term tester (like failing door motors) and simply didn't report it; BUT reported a leaky tire INSTEAD? Has it occurred to you that (surprise!) Edmunds may have had ONLY a single leaky tire?
If we follow your logic further, I suppose one could say that a pre-conceived bias would lead reviewers into MAKING UP problems where none actually occurred for vehicles they don't like. Do you think this happens too? Do you think that a publication would INVENT problems out of thin air just to back up their pre-conceived bias?
I recall reading some posts in Ody P&S about trouble with the radio, though if you looked it up and there weren't any... then I guess I was mistaken. I didn't read anything in MT indicating the downshifting to second was done manually.
Yes, declining reliability compared to previous edition Odysseys. Yes, still above average...but falling.
O.k...you being clear about the "norm" for Odyssey makes sense. I would say 1 problem is closer to the norm than 5 problems. But, the point I was making about MT was despite this higher than norm number of problems they had during their long-term test... their report was still highly favorable. It just seemed they glossed over the Ody's faults, and over emphasized the positives.
"Baloney"??? You have a rough day at the office?
Look at what you quoted me as writing again. I'm not saying Edmunds deliberately avoided reporting problems. What is it that isell always says, when you have one person report of a squeaky drivers seat then all of a sudden everyone comes out complaining of squeaky drivers seats. It's the power of suggestion that comes into play. i.e "Well, my brakes may be squeaking a bit... but this is an Ody, so it must be my imagination"(i.e swept away) "Well, these Chrysler vans are suppose to be pieces of ****... so I'm going to find out why". (i.e swept away) Perception becomes reality... and pre-concieved bias in the testing/reviews is the result.
It took a long time for Toyota and Honda to develop their quality reputation, just like Hyundai has been doing. So to can it move in the opposite direction. The perceived quality and reputation can remain... even though the reality is reliability and quality are falling.
Not certain on that however...
Seats six, with 4 buckets 2x2 in the back two rows. AIR it had the same engine as the larger model, so it could become the top-performing minivan in the US market.
Actually I think the other car companies are getting better. Less failures per vehicle. This is great for the consumer. As far as minivan sales with such discounts and the fact the DCX are a good value I'm not suprised. I say the DCX is a good van at a great price and the honda/toyotas are great vans at a good price.
Very interesting, now Kia will have a full-line in the minivan market - Rondo, Sedona SWB, Sedona LWB.
Kudos!!
I have a feeling Toyota might just wait until the next generation Sienna in 2009 to switch over to voice command.
It is very similar in pricing and size to the Mazda5, a car that is selling relatively much better up here than in the US. I'm glad to see this segment grow. Honda: where's the Stream/Latitude we've been waiting half a decade for??? Toyota: we wish for a Wish.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_T- ype1&c=Article&cid=1163717411617&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/autos/story/3778559p-4370241c.html (this carried across Canada in the National Post chain of papers)
Tanker