Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

mazdax605 · December 2006

Well we test drove the new leftover 05 MPV LX today,and I wasn't super impressed with it.It drove nice,and seemed to be a nice van,but the size was really pretty small.I guess it seemed pretty low scale even compared to some of the others we drove when it came to amenities,but that is probably more due to the fact it is an LX.

We then test drove a Mazda5,and we liked that way more even with the smaller size.It handled like a car,and seemed more upscale even though it was a sport model.We can get one of these pretty cheap with my S-plan pricing,but our biggest concern with this is that there is virtually no room behind the rear seats which isn't that bad,but a large stroller won't fit back there unless we fold a seat down.That isn't too big a deal,but if we need to carry more people then it could become an issue.

We seem to be caught up in never nevr land.We don't need the huge sized vans,and we like the handling of the 5,but it lacks some space.

We quailfy for employee pricing for Chrysler,Ford,and GM products with my employment discount.

I guess our biggest problem is there are too many options with new cars at rather large discounts,or used cars that are either Certified,or really good deals at around the price we want.

I think of the 2 full sized min-vans we drove we like the Honda the best,but the idea of spending anywhere from 18-20k for a car with between 28-40k miles on it is tough to swallow.I bet we end up with a Caravan,but that is not my first choice.We are so confused.

Chris

jchan2 · December 2006

Personally, given the choice between the year old Town and Country and the 2004 Odyssey, I would probably go with the Odyssey, mainly because it is Certified, and the 2004s did not have the transmission and other problems that earlier years had.

But when you add the leftover 2005 Mazda MPV LX into the mix, along with the Mazda5 and Kia Sedona, the situation gets more interesting. For me, what it would come down to is what kind of interest rate I would get if I financed each of those vehicles.

In Conclusion:

I definitely wouldn't get the Town & Country. It does not have the warranty that the Certified Odyssey has, nor is it brand new like the MPV/Mazda5/Kia Sedona are.

The Mazda5, while appealing, is probably too small for your family. So I'd eliminate it. The extra space that the Sedona, MPV, and Odyssey provide will come in handy down the road.

So now we are down to 3. The Certified Odyssey, the brand new Sedona, and the leftover MPV. I would test drive all 3, and bargain hard with all 3 sellers. And, since you'll be financing, you might want to take interest rates into account. The MPV might still have 0% APR for 60 months leftover from the 2005 blowout, I don't think the Sedona has any special financing rates on it right now, and the Certified Odyssey might not either.

I do know that if you go with the Odyssey, you'll probably be able to hold on to it for quite a while with minimal repair costs. And the extra space of the Odyssey is definitely versatile.

I'm leaning Odyssey, but something tells me that you should give the MPV and Sedona a good, long, hard look.

Good Luck!

jipster · December 2006

I agree. I would take another look at the MPV. I bought my MPV after taking a second look and reassesing my needs, and am glad I did. After I test drove the cavernous Ody, Sienna and Quest, the MPV did feel small... in comparison. But, you compare it to any large size sedan, or midsize to large SUV, and there is more interior space than a family of 4 could ever need. Plenty of room behind 3rd row for the baby stroller.

In terms of amenities...which were lacking that you require? The Mazda5 is very nice, but seemed "small" after being in my "cavernous" MPV for the past 2 years. The MPV has plenty of room to ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!!

guest · December 2006

Instead of comparing the size of the 05 MPV to the Oddysey or Caravan, compare it to ANY sedan or the Mazda 5. :shades:
Do you REALLY want an OLD Honda Odyssey with so many miles on it when you could have an almost new MPV. The MPV would hold ALL the luggage for your family and is probably JUST THE RIGHT SIZE for your family.

bobber1 · December 2006

Mazdas are small. I looked at them when shopping and you're comparing apples to oranges if you're going to put them up against the Hondas and Dodges.

It may be right for your family, but they weren't the right size for mine.

mazdax605 · December 2006

I think that we may look at another MPV,because the one we test drove was really stripped down,and it had some issues.The van had steel wheels with covers(15"),clear side glass that made the van look really cheap,and it had some serious scratches down the rocker of the drivers side,and the mirror glass was missing on the driver side.I know these things are minor,but it also didn't seem quite right,and the color was sort of ehhh(titanium grey which I loved on the RX-8,not the MPV).

I agree the MPV will probably fit our needs just fine,but my wife was concerned about the space behind the third row being too small,and it seemed the second row of seat should slide back further.

I liked the Honda best of all the vans we drove,and the Mazda5 the best all around,but I think that car is just too small for us.Not that the 5 is small,but the iidea is to be able to take the 2 kids around,and possible friends while holding all the gear we need for kids which takes up what little room is behind the third row of the 5.

I am concerned about buying a used van especially with 40+K miles when it will need a timing belt in 20k,or less miles,and the price is high for used even though it is certified.I am also concerned about buying an MPV as I know the van is discontinued,and may not be supported well in the future.I think we are going to test drive a nice 05 MPV in whitewater pearl that I found local that is better equipped,and the color we like.It is used,but not much.

We also found a 04 Odyssey EX-RES with 29K miles,and a nice color with the certified program,but the price is $20881 which is really high I think,but it is in line with Edmunds pricing.

We are so confused.Why are there so many options?I guess it hurts that we are on a tight budget of around 17-18-19k to finance on a van that we would like to keep for a long time.Maybe Kia certifies used cars,and we can find one a year old or so cheap.

Keep the post coming.

Chris

jchan2 · December 2006

I wouldn't worry about the mileage of the Odyssey- it is, first and foremost, a Honda which means that it is still rather reliable despite some teething problems with the 99s and some of the 02s.

I do know that Sedonas (the base model) can be had for under $20K. There is an eBay listing from a Kia dealer advertising brand new Sedonas at $19,000 or so. Although it's probably stripped, it's not a bad deal, and definitely worth a look.

The MPV, especially if you are worried about having to change the timing belt on the Certified Odyssey, is probably the best way to go.

Good Luck!

bobber1 · December 2006

Chris,

If money is the issue, you really should take a hard look at the Dodge or Chrysler products. You should use their quick depreciation as a tool to help find a good used one with low miles that is loaded with options that's inexpensive. While they tend not to be as polished as the imports and their mechanics are old; they are fundamentally sound vehicles. I had a friend who drove his Dodge 300,000 miles with out doing hardly anything to it!

I bought a Honda because I liked them better, but my budget is not as tight as yours and I can afford it now. 10 years ago I would have bought a used Dodge because I didn't have as much cash and for the reasons I listed above.

Don't break your budget on a stupid vehicle! Save if for the kids!

Good luck.

garandman · December 2006

think that we may look at another MPV,because the one we test drove was really stripped down,and it had some issues.The van had steel wheels with covers(15"),clear side glass that made the van look really cheap,and it had some serious scratches down the rocker of the drivers side,and the mirror glass was missing on the driver side.I know these things are minor,but it also didn't seem quite right,and the color was sort of ehhh(titanium grey which I loved on the RX-8,not the MPV).

I agree the MPV will probably fit our needs just fine,but my wife was concerned about the space behind the third row being too small,and it seemed the second row of seat should slide back further.

That was probably the LX-SV model - a cost reduced LX. The LX is much better equipped. Many have power side doors and rear AC. Some have the Four Seasons package. They are hard to find with the optional side curtain airbags.

Are you carrying kids or adults in the 2nd and third rows? The MPV is a whole lot more agile than the standard US size minivans, and the seats are fine for any but large adults. Parking is a breeze. One FYI, though - the rear seat is really set up for two people and an occasional third. If you look around you'll find folks paying $20K or less for new 06 LX's, since the model has been discontinued in the US and the new model is not being brought to the US for the 07 model year, if ever.

Mazda may go the way of corporate parent Ford in getting away from minivans for Pacifica-like crossover "vanagans."

jipster · December 2006

You should be able to get a loaded 2006 MPV with MSRP of $26,000 for around $19,000. That's 17" alloy wheels, 6 disc cd changer, leather wrapped steering wheel, all-sport package which includes window tinting, rearview mirror with compass and temp)You also will probably get the LX Plus package which includes rear air with controls, foglights and bodyside molding...which really gives the MPV it's sporty good looks.

With the space behind the 3rd seat...try it out. We had a toddler stroller plus assorted other belongings fit well in the storeage space. The 3rd row seat does fold down for extra space when needed.

If you have two small children, the second row captain chairs not moving further back shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the MPV is being discontinued..but only in the U.S. It is still being sold in other parts of the world. Getting parts and service shouldn't be a problem.

If possible take your time and make sure you get what you will enjoy and can afford. I think a large percent of minivan buyers struggle with which van to get, options, price etc. The wife and I went thru the same thing you're going thru. It'll work out.

zoomzoomitis · December 2006

Minivan shoppers: FWIW, I researched the Kia entrants in this segment like you wouldn't believe a little while back and found the new '06 Sedona to be LIGHT YEARS ahead of the previous models. The '05 and before models had many issues to say the least (excessive vehicle weight, mpg, no fold flat seating, reliability etc. etc.) and Kia/Hyundai, for their part, does seem to "get it right" the second time around. (Can someone say Sonata?). That '06 Sedona, although a plain-jane whale if ever there was one, is equipped rather well considering it's target market. Considerably lower price point than the others in this field after the generous year end rebates. The pure size of the thing is impressive along with it's 244hp engine. All the safety features covered that you would expect from a company pushing crash test ratings - standard! I do think one of the drawbacks though on this new entrant is the seating material just IMO. Rather light colors AND cheap feel for a vehicle that by and large will be hauling kids around. Give credit to the Chrysler/Dodge folks here in that they KNOW who buys these things.

Honda/Toyota? Still think you pay for that nameplate on the used market. Why not just take the plunge on a new one and keep it forever? My research didn't show much depreciation on either.

Zoomin' MPV? I still think when you buy cars and trucks, look at how each corporate entity is set up in a particular segment. WHO are they targeting with WHAT? Mazda is ZOOOOOOM ZOOOOOOM across the board!!! What is not traditionally ZOOM-ZOOM material in their lineup and sticks out like a sore thumb? Right! The MPV Minivan. Look who the leaders are in the minivan market (and the upstarts...not the backsliders!) and focus your search there.

All JMHO.

Zoooooooom on!
PS Tight budget - Sedona or SWB Dodge SXT/Chrysler T&C (w/6cyl). Money not an issue - Honda/Toyota new.

aaron_t · December 2006

You should be able to get at least $7k off a new 2007 DCX LWB minivan. If you can find a 2006 model, even more off. That should put you around $20k plus TTL. Around metro Detroit, employees are paying $18-19k for 2007 DGC SXT & T&C Touring. That means used 2006 models should be closer to $14k than $18k for DCX twins.

guest · December 2006

Agree that DC minivans with large rebates/discounts are VERY attractive even though the door panels look cheap compared to a Sienna or Oddyssey.
However, the Sedona EX cloth seats and floor carpet look cheaper than that in the DC minivans.
Take your time. Be sure you buy exactly what you want. Do not buy just based on a low price. :shades:

garandman · December 2006

Zoomin' MPV?

For people who want a van that is easy to manuever and park in the city - and drives like a sedan - the MPV retains a loyal following. We bought a used one because it's a dead nameplate in the USA and found a private sale at a great price.

The SWB Caravan is still available, and the SWB Sedona will be out in February.

zoomzoomitis · December 2006

The SWB Sedona is already out as an '07 model...fully priced, I might add. Actually went and looked at one at my local Kia dealer. The fully sized '06 Sedona can be had for much less with end-of-year rebates IF you don't mind the poor seating material (LX or EX).

97xpresso · December 2006

If you are considering either of these 2 smallish vehicles, you dont need a long wheelbase van. A SWB caravan SXT, is well equipted and with very reasonable year end pricing, esp. with your job's affiliation discount.

mrblonde49 · December 2006

I do know that Sedonas (the base model) can be had for under $20K. There is an eBay listing from a Kia dealer advertising brand new Sedonas at $19,000 or so. Although it's probably stripped, it's not a bad deal, and definitely worth a look. "

The LX's aren't really stripped. They have all the safety features and you can get a new 06 for around $19K. If that was my budget, that is what I would get...

jchan2 · December 2006

The LXs have all the basics, but they don't have the extras available on the EX and other minivans such as leather, DVD navigation, a power liftgate, etc.

It is quite the deal though...

mazdax605 · December 2006

Well a little update guys.We just got back from test driving a new 06 Sedona LX in Glacier blue,and I can't believe it,but we liked it the best out of the 4 we have test driven so far(04 used Odyssey,06 DGC,05 MPV are the others).The salesperson talked with his manager,and the best they could do on the van was $20,500 with the $2k rebate,and that was supoosedly $700 under invoice plus the rebate.We didn't do the deal,because we have some thinking to do,but it is very tempting to buy a new van at that price with all this equipment.

The DGC we test drove had more creature comforts as it is a SXT with the sto n go,and DVD player,but it is a used former rental w/20k miles on the clock,and not near the warranty.The Honda was nice but at the same price,if not a little higher than the Kia,and it had 40k miles on it.Now we know the Honda is probably the best of the ones we drove so far for reliability,and it has the certified pre-owned warranty,but the new van with the 5-60k bumper-to-bumper,and 10-100k powertrain warrranty is better I think(as long as they honor the warranty).

The only van my wife didn't like,and I was sort of ehh on was the MPV,but if we had test driven a nicer model I think it may have been different,but who knows.

The Kia rode pretty nice for a van,and the power seemed great.It didn't feel cheap inside like I thought it would,but it also didn't feel as nice as the Honda,but damn close.

If we could get that deal that the guy in SC on Ebay is selling 06 LX's for $18288 around here it would be a done deal I think,but I don't know how he is doing that deal.I alos don't know if it is worth a trip down there to get that deal,or if they would take our Subaru that is leased in as a trade,but I guess it is worth a shot.

Here is a question,or two.How is Kia's customer service?How is Kia about backing their warranty claims?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

hansienna · December 2006

The Kia Sedona Glacier Blue is very attractive. Read in the Kia Sedona forums to get a general idea of customer service.
As with any brand, those with problems are more likely to complain than are the satisfied people likely to praise.

bobber1 · December 2006

Chris,

Glad you ran across something you like. Shop around a bit. I had great luck faxing all the dealers in our state a request for bid to buy a new vehicle. Just be specific about what you want and how you will be paying. Tell them to fax back a bid and you will be driving to the dealer who offers the best deal.

I looked at the Hyundai version of the van which I think is pretty much the same as the Kia. It wasn't too bad a van overall, however I thought it was missing a lot of the detail items that the Honda had. One of the reasons I didn't consider them too seriously is questionable long term reliability ratings on both the Kia's and Hyundais. My attitude was so what if they have a great warrantee; it's still darn inconvienent hauling the thing in each time to get fixed and then you have to fight with the company each time to cover the item(that's a whole another discussion string.)

I still think if you shop a bit, you can find a great non rental used Dodge or Chrysler that will be under your price range and have a lot of reliable life left in front of it.

Let us know what you end up buying.

bobber1 · December 2006

Chris,

One other reason to be a bit wary of the Kia; this is the first year of the this models production cycle. You tend to see more problems in first years as customers figure out what they are and give their feedback to the manufacturers who then update the vehicles. You'll see that from most any manufacturer including Honda! The vehicle is a much safer bet two or three year into it's production cycle.

hypnosis44 · December 2006

It may have been addressed already but I would never buy a rental vehicle unless it was at wholesale book or lower. The beatings they take are nearly indescribable. On any used vehicle also buy an extended warranty that allows you to have the vehicle serviced, maintained, and repaired where you wish, not just at the dealer.

zoomzoomitis · December 2006

Fellow zoomer - listen up! Should you end up buying that rental you keep mentioning, we townhall-forum folk are going to rise up and cyber shoot all your tires out just as soon as you break the news here. Don't do it! Get it out of your head now! Repeat after me, "I will NOT buy a rental for my family's everyday transportation. I will NOT buy a rental to keep taking back to the dealer's service shop for warranty repairs. I will NOT buy a rental that's been driven by 10,000 yahoo's with attitude's..."

Speaking of The Whale ('06 Kia Sedona in either version, any color), I've got to go back and check my records on the numbers when I researched the thing but on the surface, that $20.5k figure for an LX seems rather high. If you could expand a bit on how exactly they arrived at that figure, we in free-advice-land would very much appreciate it. Is this an "out-the-door" price? Any dealer specific extended packages included we should know about? Again, I'll check my records and get back at ya.

Zoom on!
PS Here's one for ya. Did you by chance happen to ask the salesperson where the oil filter was on The Whale when you looked under the hood? Don't laugh. Some people, as strange as we are, still like doing their own maintenance from time to time. Knowing WHERE the oil filter is helps. If you go back, have a lil' fun with this. Not many folks know where Kia's hidden that thing. Just put it in your back pocket for conversation purposes. It'll give ya some idea if the Kia associate knows what he or she is talking about or not. Again, if you get the right answer, you are dealing with a metal movin' machine who's done their homework.

mrblonde49 · December 2006

"Speaking of The Whale ('06 Kia Sedona in either version, any color), I've got to go back and check my records on the numbers when I researched the thing but on the surface, that $20.5k figure for an LX seems rather high."

Pretty sure the difference is that the rebate went from $3K to $2K. $19500 for an LX was what the deal was when we looked a month or so ago. But we were looking for the loaded model

thegraduate · December 2006

By the way, I just love your posts! (I wouldn't buy a rental either, but I like the way you exemplified just how badly you don't want him to get one)...

Zoom on! I'm afraid I can't say that truthfully though since I'm not in the Mazda family.

Happy Hondadays!

TheGrad

jchan2 · December 2006

I wonder if you wait until 2007 is actually underway, whether the dealer might discount a little more as they'd be selling you a (technically) year old car.

$20,500 seems a little high though. Did the salesguy break this number down? Perhaps he built in some extras.

Is this Sedona equipped with any options?

On a different note, some of the automakers have some rather creative names for their December sales. There's December to Remember, Toyotathon, Happy Honda Days, Limited Engagement (Infiniti), and Acura's Drive Home for the Holidays event. (I think)

Happy Honda Days is my favorite

d5a · December 2006

been looking at minivans for a few months now. Need a larger car to fit my family better. We have decided to go to a one income family and a one car family to save on expenses. Looking at the toyota sennia, Mazda 5 and the Mazda MPV. So far like each one of them. Each has its pros and cons. The toyota is large but is a base model with nothing on it, the dealer is offering it at $22,000 plus tax and tags. The Mazda 5 is a touring model with sunroof and automatic climate control dealer is offering it at 20,880 out the door. The last van we have considered is the MPV. its being replaced by the Mazda 5 and has larger rebates on it. Its a LX-VS base model with a sticker of $23,710. IT has rear air conditioning, floor mates and a roof rack. After many days of dealing with the dealer i have them at a price of $17,500 out the door on the road. I'm having a hard time figuring out which van will be able to fit us. Need something reliable but at a good price. Any thoughts on which one may be the best one for a one car family. I want the best deal of course but the most reliable van.

Thanks for every ones thoughts!

thegraduate · December 2006

For the budget, if you are willing to spend in the $20k range, I'd upgrade that MPV to at least an LX model. Sounds like you are shopping on budget alone though... maybe you dont want something brand new?

Are you open to most any brand of van? If so, a well-equipped year-old Dodge with stow-and-go, and much better equipped than a base MPV, should be a STEAL.

d5a · December 2006

thanks for the response. I was looking at different brands and their rebates. I didn't see Dodge offering that much off. Do you know how much of a rebate they have going on?

thegraduate · December 2006

I don't know how much is being offered currently, but it should be easy to get a Grand Caravan/Town & Country new for VERY CHEAP (i mean WELL below invoice)in the coming days since a brand new model is expected in the near future. The used models are really a steal if you don't mind buying pre-owned. Click here to see some examples of what I mean. Things like this van (2006 Dodge Grand Caravan SE $15,996 asking price, 18,044 miles, and these features (I copied and pasted so I could do it quickly)
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Door Locks
Power Windows
Power Driver's Seat
Stow N Go Seating
AM/FM Stereo Radio
CD Player
Bridgestone Tires
Gauge Cluster
Trip Odometer
Tachometer
Air Conditioning
Tilt Steering Wheel
Cruise Control
Tinted Glass
Driver Side Air Bag
Passenger Side Air Bag
Front Bucket Seats
Reclining Seats
Rear Air Conditioner
Alloy Wheels
Clock
Interval Wipers
Rear Defroster
Rear Window Wiper
Carpeting
Driver Side Remote Mirror
Cloth Upholstery
Body Side Moldings
Luggage Rack
Keyless Entry
Center Arm Rest
Map Lights

hansienna · December 2006

Your term VERY CHEAP is accurate for a 2006 GC SE. One of the few nice items is the Cast Wheels. The door panels in a GC SE are as cheap looking as an entry level Daewoo Nubira. :shades:

thegraduate · December 2006

Well, they didn't seem against a low-end model (base model MPV), so I thought it was worth suggesting.

hansienna · December 2006

I am disgusted that Toyota now has $ 2,000 customer cash on 2006 Siennas since I got NONE when I got my 2006 Sienna LE. My Sienna depreciated faster each time Toyota increased the bribe. ($ 500, $1,000, $1,500, and now $2,000).

I KNEW DaimlerChrysler always gave rebates/discounts/incentives but I was not aware Toyota would.

Has Honda ever offered factory rebates on the Odyssey?

sebring95 · December 2006

Honda does not typically offer rebates. Sometimes they'll offer dealer cash and special financing/lease rates but that's about it. Which is one reason why Honda's typically hold value better (as a % of actual prices paid). Not selling to fleets is another big reason they retain 1-3 year values very strongly.

Toyota does offer rebates, but generally only in the later part of the year which makes sense because the vehicles are nearly a year old. A vehicle purchased NOW vs last January will suffer more deprecation so a small rebate won't hurt resale much or at all. Honda cuts production earlier to let inventory sell-off before the new models arrive.

d5a · December 2006

Thats the one thing I fear when buying a car. All my cars have held there resale value pretty well which always helps me to move up to a higher end car when i trade them in. Looking at the honda, toyota and mazda vans. Love the honda resale but hate the price. Like the toyota and they do have offers in my area that can get me into a base CE model for $22k plus tax and tags which is a 1,000 under invoice but not loving the van to take the risk. Mazda is taking 6,000 off the MPV in my area making a 24,000 van out the door for around $17,500. Thats hard to pass up. Love th price but worry in the long run it wont be worth anything. Any thoughts on resale and if the mazda is worth it just for the low price?

Thanks

Kirstie_H · December 2006

A local newspaper is looking to talk to a consumer that has or is interested in purchasing a minivan. Please contact ctalati@edmunds.com by December 30 and provide a daytime number that the reporter can contact you back at.

guest · December 2006

Ask the ouija board or roll the dice to decide which is the best buy.
BUY the Honda Odyssey since it is the minivan you love even though it costs the most.
I bought a new 2006 Sienna LE but immediately knew I made a mistake because I liked the GC SXT features more. I can not detect the superiority of the Sienan DOHC 3.3L V6 over the old fashioned OHV 3.3L V6 that was in my 02 T&C LX and my Sienna lacks the separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger.
Each minivan has advantages and disadvantages.
Odyssey has the most flexibility with the Plus 1 seating but costs the most.
Sienna has the best automatic transmission which can be placed in D-4-3-2-L while Odyssey can select only D-3-L. You can NOT make the Odyssey shift no higher than gear 4 nor shift no higher than gear 2.
IF you want the MOST power, buy the 2007 Sienna with 266 HP and 245 lb-ft torque.
IF you want the lowest cost new minivan, buy an entry level Caravan SE. :shades:

jchan2 · December 2006

Have you also considered the Kia Sedona? You get all of your safety gear (Side Curtain airbags, etc) in the base LX model, which is being heavily discounted, to the best of my knowledge.

If you're willing to go the used route, getting a 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan with Stow N Go (and maybe 20K miles) will be an absolute bargain compared with getting a brand new Grand Caravan.

thegraduate · December 2006

Sienna has the best automatic transmission which can be placed in D-4-3-2-L while Odyssey can select only D-3-L. You can NOT make the Odyssey shift no higher than gear 4 nor shift no higher than gear 2.

That's not entirely true. The Odyssey offers D-D3-2-1. It IS true that you cannot select the "4" option. The button below the main shift-release button selects "D3" in which the transmission operates like a 3-speed auto going through 1-2-3. If you select "2" or "1" the transmission will lock into those gears (Starting in ice in "2" is helpful to keep traction, but with VSA it isn't such a big deal).

jipster · December 2006

Personally, I don't place resale value high on my list.

You're looking at the best minivan on the market, at the best price... the Mazda MPV! Now you want a written invitation? Go out and buy that last Mazda MPV before hans or thegraduate buy it.

97xpresso · December 2006

Absolutely no activity! I'll start posting there when I receive one as a company vehicle next week. As bad as the Freestars are, it can't be worse than the 1984 design of the current new Astro (Jetson's dog!!) I'm now driving.

guest · December 2006

What criteria do you use to determine bad?
IF you want a truck, the Astro is # 1 of the minivans.
It had a powerful, fuel efficient engine, BIG towing capacity, and large interior space in a vehicle shorter than most minivans.

guest · December 2006

How does the driver know if D means Drive for all 5 speeds or D means it is only 3-2-1? Is there any visual reminder? :shades:

97xpresso · December 2006

It's bad because it remained basicly unchanged since it's inception in 1984. Very cramped foot room up front, poor crash ratings, and handles like a truck. Why did they stop making them if it was the only vehicle like it in it's class? The 4.3 engine was the only thing it had going for itself, for the reasons you mentioned.

thegraduate · December 2006

There is "D", where you put it once you crank the car. If you push the D3 button, a "D3" indicator shines in yellow in the dash next to the indicator in the instrument panel (as bright as the cruise control indicator does - you can't miss it). You press the D3 button again to go back to normal "D" operation, just as you would by shifting the lever on the Sienna back to "D."

PS - I'm guessing this is hansienna? The Edmunds.com bug of names not showing up is at it again!

sebring95 · December 2006

Consider two things when determining if the need for locking in 4th gear is necessary on the Odyssey:

1. The automatic transmission typically does a very good job of knowing what gear is proper for the situation. Grade braking, acceleration, etc. are all performed fairly accurately in auto mode.

2. 5th gear is an ultra-tall gear for the most part, and 4th is similarly to most OD's. 3rd is the usual 1:1, which is what you'd want for highway acceleration/braking so I can't see how locking in 4th would make any difference for utility purposes. 4th provides very little acceleration/engine braking advantages over 5th although the engine will choose that gear in certain circumstances. It's still a tall OD gear and if you are overriding gears for utility purposes, it's not the gear you'll want anyway.

hansienna · December 2006

All of the above is true, but an Ody owner does NOT have all of the choices a Sienna owner does with D-4-3-2-L.
Just another example of one company having a better idea than the others. :shades:
In fairness, Honda has a better idea placing the compact spare conveniently inside the Odyssey while Sienna and DC minivans store the compact spare underneath the minivan. The Odyssey Plus 1 Seat between the 2 captain's chairs of 2nd row is another good idea no other minivan has.

sebring95 · December 2006

My point was, with the gearing of the Ody, that extra "choice" is not necessary, important, needed, et al. Having the option to lock in 4th would simply make it more difficult to lock into 3rd (1:1) which is the gear anybody would want to lock into anyway.

The Sienna is geared completely different and 4th gear is 1:1 vs 3rd gear for the Ody. So you absolutely need to be able to manually lock into 4th on the Sienna and 3rd gear on the Ody. 4th on the Ody is just a bonus OD gear and if you're driving passive enough to need it, why would you need to lock it in?

hansienna · December 2006

IF the overall engine RPM per gear is equal, the Sienna AT gives the driver 3 accelerating gears while the Ody gives the driver only 2.
Does the driver prefer 2 Overdrive speeds and 2 accelerating speeds of the Ody :confuse: or 1 Overdrive speed and 3 accelerating speeds of the Sienna?

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